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Mike………Two things………So you really are saying we (CAN NOT) actually come to the (FULL MEASURE) of Christ Jesus. Even though scripture says the opposite.
Eph 4:13……> Till we (all) come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the son of God, unto a (PERFECT) man, unto the (MEASURE OF THE STATURE) of the (FULLNESS) of Christ:
These words you do not (TRULY) believe, because your preexistence doctrine prevents you from truly believing them right? Can't you see the damage of your false belief does to not only you but all who hold to those teachings. How could you every achieve to the fullness of Christ believing you can never attain to it.
We on the other hand do believe we can achieve to the (FULL MEASURE) of Christ , by the same way he attained to that measure though Faith in GOD the Father we CAN COME TO THE (FULL) MEASURE OF Christ. Can you begin to see what your false concepts do, they Move our (IDENTITY) away from Jesus and not only that but our Faith in God and His ability to CREATE US THAT WAY. Preexistence is truly against the Work of GOD and Jesus both, Think about it MIKE.
You say it is just our belief Jesus had to be Just like us, Well then it is obvious you think he was not like us , and why then should we (truly) believe in the power and the work of God or his ability to create unto the (full measure of Christ)< Jesus said "be of good cheer because I have overcome , what did he overcome if he was not a pure human being and why should we be of good cheer if (HE) overcame what does that have to do with Us , In your thinking it has nothing to do with us because we can never attain to the stature of Christ. Do you really think we will forever be sinners and GOD the Father can not (PERFECT) US. CAN'T YOU SEE HOW YOUR FALSE TEACHINGS (limit) GOD'S Work (IN) MANKIND. Mike why not just believe in the TRINITY whats the difference Brother they also believe Jesus was different from us.
Mike had you truly read and thought about what me and martian and others have said you could easily see that the teaching of the Preexistence of Jesus was Just as bad as the teaching of the Trinity, they go hand in hand with each other brother.
peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 11 2010,12:22) Quote (martian @ Aug. 11 2010,03:03) The disciples were stumbled in John 6 by what Christ said. He countered – What if you see me ascend to my rightful position as ruler of my father’s kingdom of heaven and Earth. Will you also leave? This is the only position Christ had before as the son of man.
The disciples did see the Messiah ascend to his rightful position as king of heaven and Earth, but he was really returning to a position granted to the one who became the Messiah long before in the mind and plan of God. At some point in his Earthly life Christ made a decision to lay down that position and become a servant.
Okay Martian,But I thought you said he never accepted that postion of “being God in form” or whatever. If he never accepted it, but instead made himself a servant, how could he say he was “there/in that postition” BEFORE? And why do you think he would use the word “ascend” to it, instead of “return” to it?
Also, you didn't really answer WHY my understanding is incorrect. He said “ascend”, and the disciples actually saw him “ascend” to his postion in heaven. That makes the “before” part seem pretty evident to me.
Why is my interpretation wrong? Why can't it be the way I understand it? After all, mine is taking the words as they were written. Yours is the one that “speculates” as to what OTHER “abstract” meaning those words MIGHT have had.
mike
Son of man is not an abstract phrase nor did I give it an abstract meaning. Son of man always, always denotes humanity. Are you willing to say that the son of man was in heaven and that is whee he was returning? Was the human being Christ in heaven prior to his birth to Mary?
The scripture says plainly that the son of man is ascending to where he was before. Your assumption cannot be correct unless you are willing to say that the human being Christ was in Heaven before he was born to Mary and that he was speaking of the return to heaven.Second – you put too much meaning on the word ascend. It is used many times in scripture for example it is used to depict Christ ascending up out of the water at his baptism. It is used to depict traveling up to Jerusalem. It is not a word used only for flying up to heaven. Ascend cannot be used to support a heavenly destination.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 12 2010,00:51) Mike………Two things………So you really are saying we (CAN NOT) actually come to the (FULL MEASURE) of Christ Jesus. Even though scripture says the opposite. Eph 4:13……> Till we (all) come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the son of God, unto a (PERFECT) man, unto the (MEASURE OF THE STATURE) of the (FULLNESS) of Christ:
These words you do not (TRULY) believe, because your preexistence doctrine prevents you from truly believing them right? Can't you see the damage of your false belief does to not only you but all who hold to those teachings. How could you every achieve to the fullness of Christ believing you can never attain to it.
We on the other hand do believe we can achieve to the (FULL MEASURE) of Christ , by the same way he attained to that measure though Faith in GOD the Father we CAN COME TO THE (FULL) MEASURE OF Christ. Can you begin to see what your false concepts do, they Move our (IDENTITY) away from Jesus and not only that but our Faith in God and His ability to CREATE US THAT WAY. Preexistence is truly against the Work of GOD and Jesus both, Think about it MIKE.
You say it is just our belief Jesus had to be Just like us, Well then it is obvious you think he was not like us , and why then should we (truly) believe in the power and the work of God or his ability to create unto the (full measure of Christ)< Jesus said "be of good cheer because I have overcome , what did he overcome if he was not a pure human being and why should we be of good cheer if (HE) overcame what does that have to do with Us , In your thinking it has nothing to do with us because we can never attain to the stature of Christ. Do you really think we will forever be sinners and GOD the Father can not (PERFECT) US. CAN'T YOU SEE HOW YOUR FALSE TEACHINGS (limit) GOD'S Work (IN) MANKIND. Mike why not just believe in the TRINITY whats the difference Brother they also believe Jesus was different from us.
Mike had you truly read and thought about what me and martian and others have said you could easily see that the teaching of the Preexistence of Jesus was Just as bad as the teaching of the Trinity, they go hand in hand with each other brother.
peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
Gene! Even so does that really mean that we have to be like Him. All have fallen short of the glory of God, would not agree with that… I think that we will all strife to be like Christ. However Christ had the Holy Spirit without measure, while we only have some of God's Ho;y Spirit. That is also the reason why Christ did not sin, He was not a mere man, He was the Son of God who was in Heaven as a Spirit being, and had a glory which He went back to, John 17:5. He emptied Himself of that glory and became a man, to save us from eternal death. Phil. 2:5 I also think that God had to send someone like Christ in order to save us…. In the unity of God, who in this world has that? I do not know anyone that fits that criteria…. I think the first Christian who died for God did have the Holy Spirit much more then we do toaday…and that verse fits them….. .And again what does that all have to do with the preexisting of Jesus??? As far as I am concerned nothing….just as bad? Then you have not studied the Scriptures that Mike and I hav given, and even say that what Christ is saying is false…..
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Arnold @ Aug. 12 2010,06:07) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 12 2010,00:51) Mike………Two things………So you really are saying we (CAN NOT) actually come to the (FULL MEASURE) of Christ Jesus. Even though scripture says the opposite. Eph 4:13……> Till we (all) come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the son of God, unto a (PERFECT) man, unto the (MEASURE OF THE STATURE) of the (FULLNESS) of Christ:
These words you do not (TRULY) believe, because your preexistence doctrine prevents you from truly believing them right? Can't you see the damage of your false belief does to not only you but all who hold to those teachings. How could you every achieve to the fullness of Christ believing you can never attain to it.
We on the other hand do believe we can achieve to the (FULL MEASURE) of Christ , by the same way he attained to that measure though Faith in GOD the Father we CAN COME TO THE (FULL) MEASURE OF Christ. Can you begin to see what your false concepts do, they Move our (IDENTITY) away from Jesus and not only that but our Faith in God and His ability to CREATE US THAT WAY. Preexistence is truly against the Work of GOD and Jesus both, Think about it MIKE.
You say it is just our belief Jesus had to be Just like us, Well then it is obvious you think he was not like us , and why then should we (truly) believe in the power and the work of God or his ability to create unto the (full measure of Christ)< Jesus said "be of good cheer because I have overcome , what did he overcome if he was not a pure human being and why should we be of good cheer if (HE) overcame what does that have to do with Us , In your thinking it has nothing to do with us because we can never attain to the stature of Christ. Do you really think we will forever be sinners and GOD the Father can not (PERFECT) US. CAN'T YOU SEE HOW YOUR FALSE TEACHINGS (limit) GOD'S Work (IN) MANKIND. Mike why not just believe in the TRINITY whats the difference Brother they also believe Jesus was different from us.
Mike had you truly read and thought about what me and martian and others have said you could easily see that the teaching of the Preexistence of Jesus was Just as bad as the teaching of the Trinity, they go hand in hand with each other brother.
peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
Gene! Even so does that really mean that we have to be like Him. All have fallen short of the glory of God, would not agree with that… I think that we will all strife to be like Christ. However Christ had the Holy Spirit without measure, while we only have some of God's Ho;y Spirit.
Eoh 3v. 19, and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.
Irene………Any man who had the fullness of the Spirit can and will be (EXACTLY) like Jesus in (EVERY) Way Sis. Your see that is our Hope of our calling to be (PERFECTED) AS JESUS WAS. “Let this mind be (IN) you that was (ALSO) in Christ Jesus our lord”. No difference same spirit same mind. Can't you see that sister? That is our hope it is to be (EXACTLY) like Jesus, not part way but completely the same as He is. Then GOD will be (ALL) and IN (ALL)>
peace and love to you and Georg……………………………….gene
Some things to consider. Some on here claim that Christ was a spirit being before becoming human on Earth. That in itself contradicts so many very clear scriptures that it cannot possible be true. Like his brethren in every way? It does not say in every way except he preexisted as a spirit being.
The Earth shall be judged by the “man” whom God appointed. Man in this verse is anthropos is only used in scripture to depict human being.
mediator the man Christ Jesus. How many times must it repeat saying that Christ was human.
son of man which always depicts humanity is used 93 times in the NT speaking of Christ.And it cannot be some separate part of Christ like his spirit that was in heaven because that is not what the Hebrews believed. The separation of body soul and spirit is a Greek invention far after the apostles died. Hebrews always believed that all the parts of man are one and cannot be separated in a living person.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 12 2010,00:51) Eph 4:13……> Till we (all) come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the son of God, unto a (PERFECT) man, unto the (MEASURE OF THE STATURE) of the (FULLNESS) of Christ:
Hi Gene,While 90% of your post is just opinion and more explaining of your “wish” for Jesus to be just like us, I will try to answer to the scripture.
Are you familiar with the Disney cartoon Pinocchio?
Okay, imagine Jesus is a REAL boy. He empties himself to become a wooden marionette for a while to get a taste of how his “puppets” really feel. Then his dad turns him back into a real boy again. But he has given all of his puppets the promise that if they are good, his dad will turn them into real boys someday too.
We as the “puppets” can try to be good like Jesus was when he was a marionette to achieve the goal of being JUST LIKE HIM………. a REAL boy. So how does the fact that Jesus was a real boy before coming as a hope for us puppets change the fact that if we follow his teachings, we can become real boys too? I mean, does it change the promise he made because he didn’t start off as a puppet? Does it change the promise his father made?
It’s silly I know, but do you get my point?
mike
Quote (martian @ Aug. 12 2010,03:53) Son of man is not an abstract phrase nor did I give it an abstract meaning. Son of man always, always denotes humanity. Are you willing to say that the son of man was in heaven and that is whee he was returning?
Hi Martian,And I suppose you have an “alternate” meaning of this verse too?
John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.How about this one?
Acts 7:56
“Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”Here we have the SON OF MAN being in heaven. In one of them, Jesus even clearly says he CAME FROM HEAVEN.
Come on Martian, Son of Man is a title Jesus used of himself to let us know he is the one spoken of in Daniel 7:13. It is because he resembled a “son of man” or “human being” in Daniel's vision. And he looked the same to Stephen who actually saw him when he was in heaven and still called him the Son of Man.
mike
Quote (martian @ Aug. 12 2010,10:45) The Earth shall be judged by the “man” whom God appointed. Man in this verse is anthropos is only used in scripture to depict human being.
Hi Martian,So why do you have trouble with Phil 2, which says Jesus emptied himself and was “made in the likeness of 'anthropos'?
Doesn't it mean he was made in the likeness of a human being there too?
mike
Hi Mike,
I'm with you on this one!
I believe “we all” pre-existed.
But it's not worth me debating. (';')God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
PS> What happened to Nick?Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 12 2010,13:19) Hi Mike, I'm with you on this one!
I believe “we all” pre-existed.
But it's not worth me debating. (';')God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
PS> What happened to Nick?
Hi Ed,I don't know that I would go that far. God has known each one of us from eternity, I think. But Jesus is the only man that is said to have existed as a person before he was born in the flesh.
Kathi tells me that Nick is on vacation. Probably somewhere nice……he is a doctor after all.
Good “funny face” btw. (';')
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 12 2010,12:29) Quote (martian @ Aug. 12 2010,03:53) Son of man is not an abstract phrase nor did I give it an abstract meaning. Son of man always, always denotes humanity. Are you willing to say that the son of man was in heaven and that is whee he was returning?
Hi Martian,And I suppose you have an “alternate” meaning of this verse too?
John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.How about this one?
Acts 7:56
“Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”Here we have the SON OF MAN being in heaven. In one of them, Jesus even clearly says he CAME FROM HEAVEN.
Come on Martian, Son of Man is a title Jesus used of himself to let us know he is the one spoken of in Daniel 7:13. It is because he resembled a “son of man” or “human being” in Daniel's vision. And he looked the same to Stephen who actually saw him when he was in heaven and still called him the Son of Man.
mike
Well if you are going to take scripture literally then I guess Paul and us have been to heaven too
1I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4was caught up to paradise.4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,Acts 7:56 I hav no problem seeing Christ in heaven after his resurrection. It is the theory that he existed there before his earthly birth that is in question.
As far as son of man goes, I am astounded that you have the audacity to even say that “son of man” means anything other then of human herritage. That contention is absolutely idiotic. But for the sake of argument that it only means he resembles a man then lets carry that to other scriptures.
Ezekiel 2:1 [ The Prophet's Call ] Then He said to me, “Son of man, stand on your feet that I may speak with you!”
Ezekiel 2:3 Then He said to me, “Son of man, I am sending you to the sons of Israel, to a rebellious people who have rebelled against Me; they and their fathers have transgressed against Me to this very day.I guess Ezekiel only resembled a man too. these are only 2 of the over 100 times Ezekiel is called son of man.
Your posts are becoming more silly and outlandish (I assume due to desperation) as these debates go on.
Hi, maybe these scriptures will help:
Quote Ephesians 1:2Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Aug. 13 2010,09:07) Hi, maybe these scriptures will help: Quote Ephesians 1:2Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Love in Christ,
Marty
Good points but I doubt Mike will care.To all —
I just want to point out the absolutely silly lengths Mike will go to in order preserve his pet theory. Now he will not accept that “son of man” denotes humanity. Have you ever heard anything so silly? I hope that those that read and do not post will finally see the total dishonesty of mikes processes.Quote (martian @ Aug. 13 2010,11:10) To all —
I just want to point out the absolutely silly lengths Mike will go to in order preserve his pet theory. Now he will not accept that “son of man” denotes humanity. Have you ever heard anything so silly? I hope that those that read and do not post will finally see the total dishonesty of mikes processes.
Hi Martian,You play word game and feed off people's emotions, not scripture.
Do you think Jesus is a flesh and blood human being in heaven right now? How about when he comes on the clouds with the angels? He is still called THE Son of Man, not just a son of man like Ezekiel was.
And then you want to play the “which scripture should we take literally” game?
Was Paul actually in heaven when he said those things? No? Then that one is figurative.
Is Jesus actually in heaven after saying he would ascend to where he was before? Yes? Then that one was literal.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2010,13:16) Quote (martian @ Aug. 13 2010,11:10) To all —
I just want to point out the absolutely silly lengths Mike will go to in order preserve his pet theory. Now he will not accept that “son of man” denotes humanity. Have you ever heard anything so silly? I hope that those that read and do not post will finally see the total dishonesty of mikes processes.
Hi Martian,You play word game and feed off people's emotions, not scripture.
Do you think Jesus is a flesh and blood human being in heaven right now? How about when he comes on the clouds with the angels? He is still called THE Son of Man, not just a son of man like Ezekiel was.
And then you want to play the “which scripture should we take literally” game?
Was Paul actually in heaven when he said those things? No? Then that one is figurative.
Is Jesus actually in heaven after saying he would ascend to where he was before? Yes? Then that one was literal.
peace and love,
mike
You say-
Do you think Jesus is a flesh and blood human being in heaven right now?
Reply-
not flesh and blood as we are now because he is glorified. His body has been changed but not taken away. Just as we will be changed.
And you are going to hang your doctrine on the word “the”?you say-
Was Paul actually in heaven when he said those things? No? Then that one is figurative.Is Jesus actually in heaven after saying he would ascend to where he was before? Yes? Then that one was literal.
reply-
Is paul in heaven now? When he is officially there then he can say he was there before?
I notice also that you carefully avoid the proper title of son of man when you quote the verse. You know as well as everyone else on this board that it means humanity and yu are not willing to admit that either your interpretation of the verse is wrong or Christ a a human being was in heaven before his birth to mary.You are losing it man. I suggest you take a break for a while before you lose everything you believe.
Mike………..Was Jesus also in heaven when He said those things (NO), Jesus was also (FIGURATIVELY) speaking about the Glory He had with the Father before the world began also. Why can you apply it to one thing and not the other, Jesus was (FOREORDAINED) for that (GLORY) before he ever existed all the way back to the garden of Eden. While flesh and blood can not enter into the kingdom of GOD are you saying when Jesus was in flesh and blood he was (NOT) in the kingdom of GOD, ridiculous, The reference of that statement meant it is impossible for flesh and blood to enter the Kingdom of God , because flesh and blood is matter and of itself can not enter a spiritual existence but that does not mean the spirit in that flesh and blood person can not enter into the kingdom of GOD now does it. “FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD COMES WITHOUT OBSERVATION IT IS (WITHIN) YOU”. Even if you are a flesh and blood person as Jesus was. Jesus is son of man (NOW) and when He returns also and is also son of GOD now and when he returns also and all who have GOD Spirit in them are son of God, because His seed abides (IN) them, Now and are also sons of man now also.
Mike……….Separating Jesus from our (exact) identity is the work of the Spirit of Antichrist brother. It constitutes a division of the body of Christ and the work of the Spirit of GOD. Be careful brother that is dangerous ground IMO.
peace and love to you and yours Mike………………………..gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2010,13:16) Quote (martian @ Aug. 13 2010,11:10) To all —
I just want to point out the absolutely silly lengths Mike will go to in order preserve his pet theory. Now he will not accept that “son of man” denotes humanity. Have you ever heard anything so silly? I hope that those that read and do not post will finally see the total dishonesty of mikes processes.
Hi Martian,You play word game and feed off people's emotions, not scripture.
Do you think Jesus is a flesh and blood human being in heaven right now? How about when he comes on the clouds with the angels? He is still called THE Son of Man, not just a son of man like Ezekiel was.
And then you want to play the “which scripture should we take literally” game?
Was Paul actually in heaven when he said those things? No? Then that one is figurative.
Is Jesus actually in heaven after saying he would ascend to where he was before? Yes? Then that one was literal.
peace and love,
mike
SO” THE” is to indicate that it is speaking of Jesus as apposed to normal humans?Job 25:6 How much less man, that maggot, And THE son of man, that worm!”
Opppps, “THE” SON OF MAN WAS JUST CALLED A WORM.In over 90 cases in the NT the actual Greek says “the son of the man” What does “the” before man indicate? A SPECIAL MAN?
HERE ARE ONLY THREE EXAMPLES.
Matthew 20:28 just as the Son of (THE)Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”
Matthew 24:27 ” For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of (THE) Man be.
Matthew 24:30 ”And then the sign of the Son of (THE)Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the (THE) SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.ISA 51
Is this “the son of man” Christ too?
11So the ransomed of the LORD will return
And come with joyful shouting to Zion,
And everlasting joy will be on their heads
They will obtain gladness and joy,
And sorrow and sighing will flee away.
12″I, even I, am He who comforts you
Who are you that you are afraid of man who dies
And of the son of man who is made like grass,You say that the term “son of man” in Ezekiel, refers to mankind but the term “the son of man” in the gospels refers to something special other then a simple son of man. In Ezekiel God is speaking first person to Ezekiel and does not use the term “the”. In the Gospels Christ is speaking third person about himself and properly uses the term “the”. There is no significance in it other then that. “The” does not mean something special within the context.
TALK ABOUT PLAYING WORD GAMES. LOL
You must be getting very desperate Mike to start employing the same tactics that the Trinitarians use.
They use the term “the” to indicate that the spirit of God is something other then just GOD’S SPIRIT. Now you use it to indicate that the son of man is something more then just a man.
AND
You have the audacity to talk about just reading what the scripture says? You are a complete hypocrite. Read it as it is if it supports your theory and do not when it does not support your theory. How about reading it with the proper principles intact? Oh I forgot it is none of our business how you come up with your theories of interpretation.YOUR DOCTRINE AND YOUR DISHONEST PRACTICES LOSE AGAIN.
I wonder what Paul would think of your concept of a being coming down from heaven and living as a man.
Acts 14
8At Lystra a man was sitting who had no strength in his feet, lame from his mother's womb, who had never walked.
9This man was listening to Paul as he spoke, who, when he had fixed his gaze on him and had seen that he had faith to be made well,
10said with a loud voice, “Stand upright on your feet.” And he leaped up and began to walk.
11When the crowds saw what Paul had done, they raised their voice, saying in the Lycaonian language, “The gods have become like men and have come down to us.”
12And they began calling Barnabas, Zeus, and Paul, Hermes, because he was the chief speaker.
13The priest of Zeus, whose temple was just outside the city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates, and wanted to offer sacrifice with the crowds.
14But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of it, they tore their robes and rushed out into the crowd, crying out
15and saying, “Men, why are you doing these things? We are also men of the same nature as you, and preach the gospel to you that you should turn from these vain things to a living God, WHO MADE THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH AND THE SEA AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM.
“Vain things”!!! Unfortunately many still hang onto the vain things of heavenly beings becoming men.
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