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Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 01 2010,08:37) Mike, You claimed that WJ can attest to my “Pride” so i asked what his qualification was for the claim of my pride. I think it is simple enough and moreover, was from your own post.
Quote http://www.guardian.bz/all-politics/1451-never-argue-with-a-fooln
Mark Twain is famously recorded as saying, “Never argue with a fool. Onlookers might not be able to tell the difference”; while Woody Allen cautioned, “Never argue with a fool; they will lower you to their level and then beat you with experience”.
Hi JA,His qualification is the way you pridefully went thread to thread bragging about how you demolished him in your debate about the holy spirit. I think most of us on HN saw that shameful display, so in reality, any of us would qualify to make a statement about it, IMO. I'm not slamming you here, just explaining how it is hard for me to take criticism from you about MY pride.
And I take it that the Mark Twain and Woody Allen quotes mean the “two fools” isn't in the Bible like you thought?
mike
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 01 2010,14:20) Hi Mike: I know this by the scriptures. First, the body did not exist until “Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost and born of the virgin Mary”. Are we in agreement so far?
Hi Marty,No, we are not in agreement. What scripture tells you that spirit beings don't have “bodies”? Paul says that Jesus is now in heaven clothed in his new “spiritual body”.
Let's get through this one first, because the “bread of life” will take more time.
Do you agree that there is no scripture indicating that spirit beings don't have bodies? Or do you know of one that I don't?
mike
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 01 2010,14:44) 942767……….Those who are worldly minded think The true words of GOD are foolishness as it appears JA does and His pride comes spewing out almost every time he posts, He think by ridiculing others makes Him look important ans more intelligent, Not realizing it only makes him look foolish, His aggrandizements only services Him, and His self made High tower, adds nothing to the words of GOD. IMO , At least Mike is considering what we are Posting I believe. peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene
I consider everything my brothers and sisters on HN post. And I always learn from them, even if we still end up in disagreement.Right now though, I'd like to learn from you Gene. In what sense could Jesus, who we know came FROM HEAVEN, say that he would ASCEND TO WHERE HE WAS BEFORE?
Please try to avoid the “He's right”, “You should read the info he posted”, “You are worldly minded”, “You just don't get it”, and the other things you keep posting as if they actually answer the question.
I would like a DIRECT answer to the question of where you think Jesus was before, that he ascended back to.
Hi Mike,
Yes, you are right about my Pride, yet, I did not Fall…what does that say? Were the 70 sent out by Jesus not also 'proud' of their trouncing of evil spirits? Did they not 'boast in the Spirit'?Further, the pride thing was a response to WJ's continual thrashing in the forum over his lost cause.
Is it that 'others' saw my pride and felt pity for the loser, because they didn't like the fact that the 'Mighty God' WJ, after …years… of pushing Trinity and seemingly unbeatable, was finally brought low. Wj, who boasted to me that do you think that you can bring down Trinity after far far more intelligent and intellectual scholars have tried for nearly 2000 years'. If you had broken that record, smashed it in 'two pages' in a forum, wouldn't you be proud? And if the loser kept, 'coming back to life, zimbie style', wouldn't you crush him back down…bet you would?How are your debates…still going on, every one of them, after….
I keep showing you why, but all you say is 'i like debating'.
Mike, that is so bad. The Greeks loved to debate. They would spend days and all day of a day, debating a single point of Scripture.
Jesus denounced them.
An everlasting debate has no purpose except to eat up a person's time.
Gene posts unscriptural nonesense, Nick's dived head first into an empty pool, Edj…number jumber…, SF supposed to be a 'debate Judge', wouldn't wanna be his court. I'm not sure where he is from nor where he is going to. He makes so many mistakes, errors, forever saying 'sorry, that's not what i meant'.
All i asked, as a brother, was that you be mindful that Gene has gone doolally and that debating with a doolally will make you into one, too.But you say you 'like debating'… Have you tried debating with a tree?
The quote, i couldn't find it in the Scriptures, but it is in my mind's eye where i read it and it certainly wasn't from those two…where did they get it from, Proverbs? Ecclessiates?
In any case, it is as Shimmer says, just believe. What if it you just believe the 'quote'. Does it make sense? If so, does it matter who said it?
Hi JA,
You said:
Quote Hi Mike,
Yes, you are right about my Pride, yet, I did not Fall…what does that say? Were the 70 sent out by Jesus not also 'proud' of their trouncing of evil spirits? Did they not 'boast in the Spirit'?
Very well sir. And all that I was saying is, “How can you lecture me about MY pride, when you too feel pride in helping others to understand scriptural truth, or at least in solidly defending your beliefs through scripture?”You said:
Quote Mike, that is so bad. The Greeks loved to debate. They would spend days and all day of a day, debating a single point of Scripture. Jesus denounced them.
Where did Jesus denounce the Greeks in scripture?
And Paul commended those, who after a day of Paul's teachings, hit the books to search scripture and see if it really said what Paul said it did. While I personally agree with much of what you say, these guys are claiming scripture says something it doesn't. I'm trying to get to the bottom of it. In doing so, it might look like a waste of time to you, but I'm learning other things I didn't understand before as a by-product. So it's all good.
Let me know if you find where the “two fools” is in scripture. It's just that I love that saying, and it would be cool if it actually DID come from scripture.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 01 2010,02:29) Hi barley/oatmeal,
So your contention is that because Jesus wasn't literally a loaf of bread, he didn't literally ascend to where he was before?Oh but he did. And the disciples actually watched him ascend. And Stephen actually saw to where he ascended.
I don't remember Stephen seeing any “saints” also at God's right hand. And I don't know of any scripture in Ephesians that says anyone except Jesus has the right hand of God postition.
So now it gets more complicated than just saying “it was a figure of speach” for you guys. Because Jesus said, “You will see greater things than these”. Then he said “What if you see me ascend to where I was before”. Then they DID see him ascend to where he was before.
You say YOU were at God's right hand yesterday? Did you “ascend” there? God is in heaven…….did you physically leave the earth and ascend to heaven and see the face of God? Jesus did. And he told the disciples he would do it way before he did it. And here's the kicker……he said he would ascend TO WHERE HE WAS BEFORE.
So if the ascension was a literal thing that people saw with their own eyes, what makes you think the “WHERE I WAS BEFORE” wasn't also literal?
And you didn't actually answer the manna question. Your preconceived idea is that the manna didn't literally come “from heaven”. But what if scripture said the manna ASCENDED TO WHERE IT WAS BEFORE? What if the Israelites saw it happen daily with their own eyes? Would you ignore that and stick with your own preconceived notion……..or would you change your idea in light of scripture?
mike
That is correct, he did ascend.
Stephen did not say he saw any saints there. As you point out, he did see JC standing at the right hand of God. For you trinitarians and such, take note, Jesus Christ was not seated in God's throne, but rather at the right hand of God.
The reason you have not seen any scripture in Ephesians telling us that we, as believers, are seated at the right hand of God is because you have not noticed them. They have never been pointed out to you.
Therefore, I will take this honor thankfully and point the appropriate verses out to you.
See Ephesians 1:20 Jesus Christ is seated at the right hand of the God of our lord Jesus Christ. Ephesians 1:17.
See Ephesians 1:22-23. JC is the head of the church, and that church is his body, we are members in particular of that body, I Corinthians 12.
See Ephesians 2:4-6. God quickened us together with Christ, God raised us up together with Christ, and God made us sit together with whom? Christ! Where? in the heavenlies! Where is Christ seated in the heavenlies? At the right hand of God!
See, when you learn to read and remember and think of more than one scripture at a time, you can learn some very wonderful truths.
It is clear to me, that I with all believers are seated at the right hand of God together with Jesus Christ! Is my physical body there? NO, of course not. Is my soul there? No, of course not. Is my God given gift of holy spirit there? No. of course not. So what is God saying?
How can God tell us we are seated at His own right hand with Christ if we are not actually there? A better question is, what is God trying to tell us? As far as God is concerned, our status with him is such. We have boldness and access with confidence to God's throne. We do not have to look up to God to make our prayer requests to Him. We look to our left, and there God “sits”. We are not literally at God's own right hand, although, God seems to indicate that. Did God lie? No. He is teaching us, even as He taught Jesus Christ to teach in parables, here God uses words, not to be taken literally, but to be taken figuratively.
He is telling us that we are special to him.
We humbled ourselves to do Romans 10:9. That is, to confess with our mouth the Lord Jesus and also to believe in our hearts that God raised him from the dead, and because we humbled ourselves to do that , God has highly exalted us. Just like He did for His only begotten son.
Jesus Christ was not literally with God in some preexisting state, but since God has foreknowledge, God had all things prepared for JC since the world began.
The source for what Jesus Christ was, is and will be is from heaven.
Yours and my eternal life did not originate on earth, it was preplanned and had its beginning in the love of our God for us. Where did our eternal life originate? With God! Where is He seated?
Even while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. God planned ahead, He knew some people would believe and that was enough for God to initiate and carry out His plan for our salvation. Jesus Christ is the major figure of that plan.
It is really quite simple to understand. We must first calm our emotions, wash away our preconceived notions and then approach the word of God and let the word of God speak for itself.
barley
I kind of like oatmeal, simple and basic food. you might enjoy some with some butter, cinammon and brown sugar.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 02 2010,04:48) I would like a DIRECT answer to the question of where you think Jesus was before, that he ascended back to.
Mike ………….> Jesus was the same place you and I were (in the plan and will of GOD the FATHER). Is that direct enough for you brother.Here is a similar question where was Cyrus before He existed on earth. Was it no in the Plan and Will of GOD?
peace and love to you and yours Mike………………..gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 02 2010,04:40) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 01 2010,14:20) Hi Mike: I know this by the scriptures. First, the body did not exist until “Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost and born of the virgin Mary”. Are we in agreement so far?
Hi Marty,No, we are not in agreement. What scripture tells you that spirit beings don't have “bodies”? Paul says that Jesus is now in heaven clothed in his new “spiritual body”.
Let's get through this one first, because the “bread of life” will take more time.
Do you agree that there is no scripture indicating that spirit beings don't have bodies? Or do you know of one that I don't?
mike
Hi Mike:And so, what scripture states that Jesus was a spirit being prior to being born of the virgin Mary?
And so, you are indicating that he was s spirit being with a body of some sort, and then the Holy Ghost overshadowed the virgin Mary, and he took on a body of flesh?
Love in Christ,
MartyMike,
We are brothers because I Begot you of myself. I look out for you as I look out for Karmarie when she was here.
Knocking heads with Gene is not healthy nor wholesome – in fact, you are responsible for making him worse by going against him. Why? Because the more you go against him the more he tries to find ways of saying that you are wrong and 'proving it' (IHO!). You MAKE HIM worse than he was before – do you see?
I quickly finished with WJ for that reason – I saw him diving into devilry when he knew he had lost – and I got out – and no amount of his thrashing made me go back – aside from skirting in and around for my own sake. WJ did not OWN me in the debate – but it seems that Gene OWNS you and it is HE that won't let YOU Go – even if you think it is you that is holding Him (Tar Baby!).
Ok, do this then. Let go of Gene for two days – ignore his posts (I have done that!). Then, after two days – do as you like. Agreed?
Quote (martian @ July 31 2010,11:36) To all,
I want to be clear that I have no personal grudge against Mike. However, I am attacking his methods for coming to his interpretations of scripture.
In my previous post I should point out a few things. Mike has stated that his methods include studying the Greek/Hebrew words and considering the context.
Mike did not follow his own stated methods because he did not use the context to determine which of the various Greek definitions to use.
This is a prime example of what I said before that he will not posts clear concise methods for interpretation because if he does he will have to break them to support his doctrine. I finally bothered him enough that he said he uses context and language word studies/definitions. These are good principles but unfortunately Mike now refuses to use them because it will negate the doctrine he is determined to prove.
Hi Martian,I appreciated your spelling out how you do you research.
First to answer the question posed: No. From this ONE verse it is impossible to determine pre-existence. It would take other verses to do so. THEN it would meet Martian's #2 method of considering it in context throughout the whole Bible.
Since you were not asking to prove pre-existence and address only this verse, others were correct in pointing out the word “before”. From this verse we don't know where “before” was. We infer it from other Scripture verses, but only from this verse, it doesn't say so.
Martian, as concerning your reliance on the Hebrew culture, wow. That would take a lifetime of learning and knowing what was happening back then…that's even harder than learning the language. And in that learning process you'll find that it is only someone else's opinion of how they would interpret Scripture.
Let's look at some facts:
They had the original Scriptures and spoke the original language and still they crucified their Messiah. Apparently they didn't understand their culture very well which doesn't say much for relying on them.
I do understand what you meant….I try to look for clues from their culture and read articles about their perspectives.
I went to the site you recommended and Mr Buzzard claims that preexistence doesn't exist and that the Holy Spirit is a force of God, too. He, too bases his theory on Hebrew culture and not what is written…or rather he will take what is written and negate it saying that is not how the Jewish culture would see it. Therefore, according to Anthony nothing in the Bible is correct and he will tell you how to view it. I'd rather believe Jesus and the Bible.
Look again at Jewish culture:
Jesus went to the Jews and performed many miracles. They saw what he did and went away not believing in him. They affirmed that it was their fathers who killed the prophets.This same culture was building a golden calf as Moses was in a meeting with God. This culture would prefer to worship images and false gods than the true God and we are to entrust New Testament Scripture truths with them because of their culture?
They didn't have a clue then and still don't.Oh, as for pre-existence that would begin in Col 1:15 and Rev 3:14…Jesus as the beginning of the creation of God.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 01 2010,02:15) Hi All I don't usually agree with Mike on much but it is clear what the scriptures say on his preexistence. The Greek Grammer tenses, Etc do not allow for a Unitarian interpretation. In fact it is a “LIE” to say that Jesus was from this world.
JTB said…
“He that cometh from above is above all“: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: “he that cometh from heaven is above all“. John 3:31
“HE THAT COMETH FROM ABOVE IS ABOVE ALL” : “HE THAT COMETH FROM ABOVE IS ABOVE ALL” : “HE THAT COMETH FROM ABOVE IS ABOVE ALL” : “HE THAT COMETH FROM HEAVEN IS ABOVE ALL ” : “HE THAT COMETH FROM HEAVEN IS ABOVE ALL ” : “HE THAT COMETH FROM HEAVEN IS ABOVE ALL ”
How much clearer does it have to be? Did Jesus ever say I am Gods plan from above?
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; **I AM FROM ABOVE** (NOT I AM GODS PLAN FROM ABOVE): ye are of this world; **I AM NOT OF THIS WORLD**. John 8:23
**I AM FROM ABOVE** (egw ek twn anw eimi)
The Greek word “From” is ‘ek’ which means 1) out of, from, by, away from. The statements “from (ek) heaven” or “From (ek) above” is never used of any other in the scriptures but Jesus. So to claim that his origin is the same as ours because we are not of this world is a red herring because Jesus chose us “Out of this world”.
If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but “I have chosen you ‘OUT OF’ (ek) the world”, therefore the world hateth you. John 15:19
**I AM FROM ABOVE** (egw ek twn anw eimi)
“I have chosen you ‘OUT OF’ (ek) the world ” Egō eklegomai hymas ek kosmos
There it is. Jesus specifically says that he chose us “ek” out of, or from the world. The same word that Jesus uses saying he is “from” (ek) heaven or from (ek above).
So if we are chosen out of or from (ek) this world then Jesus is from (ek) heaven or above.
The language ‘From above”, (ek anw), is never used in the scriptures for anyone but Jesus and on the flip side the language “out of or from the world”, (ek kosmos) is never used of Jesus!
This confirms Jesus words here…
“HE THAT COMETH FROM ABOVE” is above all: “HE THAT IS OF THE EARTH IS EARTHLY“, and speaketh of the earth: “HE THAT COMETH FROM ABOVE” is above all. John 3:31
Questions:
- Where is the scripture that says men or believers are from (ek) above?
- Where is the scripture that says Jesus is from or of (ek) this world?
- Where is the scripture that says we “Came down (katabainō) from heaven”?
WJ
W.J. It is nice to agree with you for once. To ignore those Scriptures that you, Mike and i have given is calling Jesus a liar…. It is rather upsetting to me when there are several Scriptures that show that Jesus came from Heaven and also that He was The Word of God and will come back as that and will also be KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS…. Who else could fit that He was “The Word of God” and KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Yet they simply ignore those Scriptures and believe their own interpetation of those Scriptures…..But to me that is nothing new…..Peace and Love IreneQuote (davidbfun @ Aug. 03 2010,11:22) Quote (martian @ July 31 2010,11:36) To all,
I want to be clear that I have no personal grudge against Mike. However, I am attacking his methods for coming to his interpretations of scripture.
In my previous post I should point out a few things. Mike has stated that his methods include studying the Greek/Hebrew words and considering the context.
Mike did not follow his own stated methods because he did not use the context to determine which of the various Greek definitions to use.
This is a prime example of what I said before that he will not posts clear concise methods for interpretation because if he does he will have to break them to support his doctrine. I finally bothered him enough that he said he uses context and language word studies/definitions. These are good principles but unfortunately Mike now refuses to use them because it will negate the doctrine he is determined to prove.
Hi Martian,I appreciated your spelling out how you do you research.
First to answer the question posed: No. From this ONE verse it is impossible to determine pre-existence. It would take other verses to do so. THEN it would meet Martian's #2 method of considering it in context throughout the whole Bible.
Since you were not asking to prove pre-existence and address only this verse, others were correct in pointing out the word “before”. From this verse we don't know where “before” was. We infer it from other Scripture verses, but only from this verse, it doesn't say so.
Martian, as concerning your reliance on the Hebrew culture, wow. That would take a lifetime of learning and knowing what was happening back then…that's even harder than learning the language. And in that learning process you'll find that it is only someone else's opinion of how they would interpret Scripture.
Let's look at some facts:
They had the original Scriptures and spoke the original language and still they crucified their Messiah. Apparently they didn't understand their culture very well which doesn't say much for relying on them.
I do understand what you meant….I try to look for clues from their culture and read articles about their perspectives.
I went to the site you recommended and Mr Buzzard claims that preexistence doesn't exist and that the Holy Spirit is a force of God, too. He, too bases his theory on Hebrew culture and not what is written…or rather he will take what is written and negate it saying that is not how the Jewish culture would see it. Therefore, according to Anthony nothing in the Bible is correct and he will tell you how to view it. I'd rather believe Jesus and the Bible.
Look again at Jewish culture:
Jesus went to the Jews and performed many miracles. They saw what he did and went away not believing in him. They affirmed that it was their fathers who killed the prophets.This same culture was building a golden calf as Moses was in a meeting with God. This culture would prefer to worship images and false gods than the true God and we are to entrust New Testament Scripture truths with them because of their culture?
They didn't have a clue then and still don't.Oh, as for pre-existence that would begin in Col 1:15 and Rev 3:14…Jesus as the beginning of the creation of God.
Right, if Jesus was the firstborn of all creation, then He was in Heaven with His Father…. The world did not exist at that time. It is Jesus who came down from Heaven to do the will of His Father, who send Him.
John 6:38-40 So if Jehovah God send Jesus where did He send Him from…. He also had A glory which He asked to go back to…..John 17:5
Rev, 3:14 He is the beginning of the creation of God…. Also
Rev. 19:13 He is called The Word of God…. verse 16 says the He is KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORD. IS THERE SOMEONE ELSE THAT FITS THAT SCRIPTURE?
JOHN 1:1 AND VERSE 14 SHOWS THAT THE WORD OF GOD
BECAME FLESH.
Why O why is it so hard to believe this…. clear Scriptures….
Peace and Love IreneQuote (martian @ Aug. 01 2010,04:25) Mike,
I felt an obligation to post why I believe that your methods of interpretation are dishonest and inaccurate. To my target audience I have done that. Because of your indoctrination into the world of dishonest bible study I know I will never change YOUR mind. I feel no more obligation to engage with you farther. That would truly be casting pearls before swine.
I do pray someday you will come out of the darkness and see a brighter and more wonderful gospel but the choices are yours to make.
Martian Look in the mirrow, you might learn something….being nasty makes your face ugly….calling someone dishonest makes you that way, shame on you….. IreneHi DavidFun:
The beginning of the creation of God. The new creation?
Quote
Ephesians 2:15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;Quote
Galatians 5:15For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.Quote
2 Co 5:17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (barley @ Aug. 02 2010,15:09) Jesus Christ was not literally with God in some preexisting state, but since God has foreknowledge, God had all things prepared for JC since the world began.
Whew! I finally got through the arrogant and condescending way you “suppose” to teach me scriptural things…….just to find this little tidbit about the thread.So you think Jesus was looking forward to ascending BACK to a place where he had only existed as a thought in God's mind? Does that really make sense to you? And God's “thought” of Jesus had a bunch of glory? And that's where Jesus wanted to go back to…….to a non-existent life as a thought in God's mind?
Come on man, offer something real for a change.
Btw, you're the one who signed “oatmeal” at the bottom of the post.
mike
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 03 2010,02:51) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 02 2010,04:48) I would like a DIRECT answer to the question of where you think Jesus was before, that he ascended back to.
Mike ………….> Jesus was the same place you and I were (in the plan and will of GOD the FATHER). Is that direct enough for you brother.Here is a similar question where was Cyrus before He existed on earth. Was it no in the Plan and Will of GOD?
peace and love to you and yours Mike………………..gene
Hi Gene,I just explained that to barley. Do you think if Cyrus got resurrected, he would like to live out the rest of his existence as a “thought” in God's mind?
Come on guys, answer the question for real. Do you really expect anyone to believe that Jesus was looking forward to going back to the previous glory and postition he had as a “thought in God's mind”? No brain of his own……no thoughts…….no feelings…..no life
mike
Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 03 2010,10:55) Mike, We are brothers because I Begot you of myself. I look out for you as I look out for Karmarie when she was here.
Knocking heads with Gene is not healthy nor wholesome – in fact, you are responsible for making him worse by going against him. Why? Because the more you go against him the more he tries to find ways of saying that you are wrong and 'proving it' (IHO!). You MAKE HIM worse than he was before – do you see?
I quickly finished with WJ for that reason – I saw him diving into devilry when he knew he had lost – and I got out – and no amount of his thrashing made me go back – aside from skirting in and around for my own sake. WJ did not OWN me in the debate – but it seems that Gene OWNS you and it is HE that won't let YOU Go – even if you think it is you that is holding Him (Tar Baby!).
Ok, do this then. Let go of Gene for two days – ignore his posts (I have done that!). Then, after two days – do as you like. Agreed?
Hi JA,I had a girlfriend named Allie a long time ago that used to watch other's kids once in a while. One time while I was there, one of the kids came to her to tell on one of the other kids. She looked that kid directly in the eye and listened real intentively until she was done tattling. Then Allie said very convincingly (as if she had forgot), “And what's your name again?” The kid, thinking Allie had seriously forgot her name, said, “Katie”. And Allie said, “Then that's the person you need to worry about.”
I appreciate what you're saying, but how about I propose a different strategy? YOU worry about how YOU discuss scripture on HN, and let ME worry about how I do it. Sound fair?
I'm a big boy JA. I know what I'm doing and why I'm doing it.
Believe it or not, I'm pushing Gene and the others just to find out if there IS anything to their claims. After all, I want the truth, and if they have it, I want it from them. But the more I get the “he's right, Mike” and the “you just don't get it” stuff, the more I'm convinced there is nothing solid to their claims. I do the same thing with you about “begotten”. peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 03 2010,09:52) Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 03 2010,10:55) Mike, We are brothers because I Begot you of myself. I look out for you as I look out for Karmarie when she was here.
Knocking heads with Gene is not healthy nor wholesome – in fact, you are responsible for making him worse by going against him. Why? Because the more you go against him the more he tries to find ways of saying that you are wrong and 'proving it' (IHO!). You MAKE HIM worse than he was before – do you see?
I quickly finished with WJ for that reason – I saw him diving into devilry when he knew he had lost – and I got out – and no amount of his thrashing made me go back – aside from skirting in and around for my own sake. WJ did not OWN me in the debate – but it seems that Gene OWNS you and it is HE that won't let YOU Go – even if you think it is you that is holding Him (Tar Baby!).
Ok, do this then. Let go of Gene for two days – ignore his posts (I have done that!). Then, after two days – do as you like. Agreed?
Hi JA,I had a girlfriend named Allie a long time ago that used to watch other's kids once in a while. One time while I was there, one of the kids came to her to tell on one of the other kids. She looked that kid directly in the eye and listened real intentively until she was done tattling. Then Allie said very convincingly (as if she had forgot), “And what's your name again?” The kid, thinking Allie had seriously forgot her name, said, “Katie”. And Allie said, “Then that's the person you need to worry about.”
I appreciate what you're saying, but how about I propose a different strategy? YOU worry about how YOU discuss scripture on HN, and let ME worry about how I do it. Sound fair?
I'm a big boy JA. I know what I'm doing and why I'm doing it.
Believe it or not, I'm pushing Gene and the others just to find out if there IS anything to their claims. After all, I want the truth, and if they have it, I want it from them. But the more I get the “he's right, Mike” and the “you just don't get it” stuff, the more I'm convinced there is nothing solid to their claims. I do the same thing with you about “begotten”. peace and love,
mike
ya crack me upQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 03 2010,15:31) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 03 2010,02:51) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 02 2010,04:48) I would like a DIRECT answer to the question of where you think Jesus was before, that he ascended back to.
Mike ………….> Jesus was the same place you and I were (in the plan and will of GOD the FATHER). Is that direct enough for you brother.Here is a similar question where was Cyrus before He existed on earth. Was it no in the Plan and Will of GOD?
peace and love to you and yours Mike………………..gene
Hi Gene,I just explained that to barley. Do you think if Cyrus got resurrected, he would like to live out the rest of his existence as a “thought” in God's mind?
Come on guys, answer the question for real. Do you really expect anyone to believe that Jesus was looking forward to going back to the previous glory and postition he had as a “thought in God's mind”? No brain of his own……no thoughts…….no feelings…..no life
mike
Mike ………..> Again you have failed to answer the question put to you, WHERE WAS CYRUS BEFORE HE WAS EVER BORN. Please Be Specific with this brother.was He not in the mind and Will of GOD before he ever existed and was His glory not already foreordained and planned. Did He by some kind of fluke of nature chose to be King Cyrus as a result of a “FREE WILL”, or was he specifically brought into existence by God for a Specific Purpose. The same applies for John the Baptist and Jesus also.
peace and love……………………gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 03 2010,15:31) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 03 2010,02:51) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 02 2010,04:48) I would like a DIRECT answer to the question of where you think Jesus was before, that he ascended back to.
Mike ………….> Jesus was the same place you and I were (in the plan and will of GOD the FATHER). Is that direct enough for you brother.Here is a similar question where was Cyrus before He existed on earth. Was it no in the Plan and Will of GOD?
peace and love to you and yours Mike………………..gene
Hi Gene,I just explained that to barley. Do you think if Cyrus got resurrected, he would like to live out the rest of his existence as a “thought” in God's mind?
Come on guys, answer the question for real. Do you really expect anyone to believe that Jesus was looking forward to going back to the previous glory and postition he had as a “thought in God's mind”? No brain of his own……no thoughts…….no feelings…..no life
mike
Hi Mike:He said what if you see the Son of man ascending to where he was before, that is “heaven”. That is all he said. He did not say that he was returning to his former glory either, but he made reference to the glory that he was being given by God which God had foreseen from the beginning.
Love in Christ,
Marty
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