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Jodi and Gene. Who was the literal firstborn? The first to be with God?
Had to be someone right?
You don’t know do you?
Blinded by your own doctrine.
To All,
Direct scripture tells you that God’s WORD from the beginning was that a man would come and execute His will.
Direct scripture tells you that indeed a man did come, having been sent upon his anointing.
Direct scripture tells you that a man sits at God’s right hand and that a man is returning to earth in our Father’s glory
This man is a king of kings and a lord of lords, and he returns to sit on his father David’s throne according to the flesh.
This man of flesh is God’s Son according to the Spirit, and he is a firstborn of many brethren, where on earth all flesh worship God.
This man’s brethren are joint heirs of God with him, all Sons of God for they too are led by God’s Spirit, having God direct all their ways, for God is all in all.
God made man in His own image, the resurrected man Jesus, is the firstborn into that image, having received the Spirit of God according to a promise.
God’s word before the world even began was eternal life for mankind, for God did not make the earth in vain, but for it to be inhabited.
Where God’s SPIRIT IS there is LIFE because of righteousness. Eternal Life comes only through God’s Spirit.
JESUS the son of David was raised from the dead and received God’s Spirit just as God had promised before the world began.
There is no spirit son temporarily becoming flesh to save the world.
From the beginning there was ONE SPIRIT, ONE PLAN, and ONE MAN TO COME.
From the beginning the END was declared, we see that end, it is a New Heaven and a New Earth, where the man Jesus was made firstborn overall this Eternal Creation.
Proclaimer,
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
What is the image of the Son of God at this moment?
A HEAVENLY MAN is the image of God’s Son, a man born of the eternal Spirit is God’s Son.
A Son of Man sits right now at God’s right hand and he is a Son of God ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT, which he had received upon being raised from the dead according to a promise made by God before the world began.
Jodi…….It’s wrong
In the beginning WAS the Word and the Word was with the God and The Word was God
The Son OF God is the only ONE WHO IS CALLED “THE WORD OF GOD” (SEE RÉVÉLATION 19:13)For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead (Colossians 2:9)
GODHEAD= divinity
Proclaimer,
Jesus is a firstborn overall creation, but not the creation that comes to an END not the creation that is destroyed.
God took a man and made him His firstborn over an Eternal Creation.
27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
Come on t8, Paul is speaking of the man who shed his blood, and who he IS at that very moment that Paul was writing, at that moment Jesus was a firstborn overall creation, the Eternal Creation.
Hi Berean,
Biblical facts for you,
From the beginning God’s word was Eternal Life
From the beginning God’s word was a man would come and execute all of God’s will.
Speaking of the man Jesus in Hebrews 5, “being MADE perfect, he BECAME the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Without this Jesus, without this man of God’s WORD from the beginning, nothing would have been made that was made.
God’s word was eternal life, that word was with Him as He created all things alone, and that word of eternal life is God for God’s Spirit is life.
He was in God’s word also from the beginning, the man who would die on the cross for our sins, the man who would be made perfect becoming our source for eternal life.
There is NO pre-existing son in the beginning.
In the beginning was the WORD of God -eternal life and the one man who would bring it to pass through being begotten by God’s Eternal Spirit.
You are hard of hearing Jodi.
Aware of their conversation, Jesus asked them, “Why are you debating about having no bread? Do you still not see or understand? Do you have such hard hearts? ‘Having eyes, do you not see? And having ears, do you not hear?…”
We have said many times, that Jesus came as a man. He emptied himself and fulfilled prophecy as a man.
Scripture also talks about his ancient origins.
You would do well to listen.
THE Word was WITH God.
THE Word became FLESH.
HE was WITH God in the BEGINNING
THROUGH HIM all things were made
THROUGH THE SON, all things were made
HIS NAME IS The Word of God.
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.
…and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called THE WORD OF GOD.
We believe and you do not. That much is certain. But I believe in free speech as an extension of free will. You are free to be wrong and this is why we are judged by God because we are responsible for ourselves and decisions.
Proclaimer……what came into the man Jesus, was the Spirit of God, making God himself in “him” , it wasn’t a seperate inaity of “SOMEKIND”, the Father who IS God was “in” the man JESUS VIA HIS HOLY SPIRIT. God the Father was truly “IN” him.
Gene, everybody here knows this.
But what you fail to grasp is that “Christ” came in the flesh (see Micah 5:2)
____________
God bless
Ed JYes Gene. Get with the program. Your rebuttals are completely missing the mark once again. Your argument has posed zero threat to what we believe regarding the scriptures. We are here to learn and we are open to new things that we are not aware of. But your repetitive arguments continually miss the mark and are having no impact on us learning anything new. Might be time to try something new perhaps. Please pray and ask God what your mission is and pursue that with all your heart.
Proclaimer,
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
What is the image of the Son of God at this moment?
A HEAVENLY MAN is the image of God’s Son, a man born of the eternal Spirit is God’s Son.
A Son of Man sits right now at God’s right hand and he is a Son of God ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT, which he had received upon being raised from the dead according to a promise made by God before the world began.
Your conclusion is fake news Jodi.
God created all things through the Son of God / Word of God.
He was with God in the beginning.
He came in the flesh so as to become the new Adam wherein we could receive new life.
He died for our sins and rose from the dead.
Now we too will rise from the dead and be with God just as he is.
He overcame death for us, so he is the firstborn from the dead.
But he is also the firstborn of all creation.
Amen.
Edj,…..what you and they do not understand is that Jesus is the “anointed” one, he is “NOT” the anointing he was anointed with. GET IT?
JESUS WAS A MAN, who was “anointed” with the Holy Spirit of God, that is why he is call the CHRIST, THE “ANOINTED” ONE.
Jesus did not “preexist” his birth on this earth, period!, that’s the point of both my and Jodi’s argument here. You and they believe, God took a preexisting being of somekind and “morphed” Him into the womb of Mary, to be born as a human being . That is the biggest “LIE” ever Fostered on all Christanity. That “LIE” was created by Satan himself, and started to infect the Church at the very time of the apostles, and the apostles Paul and John both fought against it. Neither of them ever taught that a “preexisting” being was put in a human body, and desguised as a man, thats what the GNOSTIC’S taught , and they fought against those teachings. Calling them Antichrists, why? , because they believed Jesus did not need to recieve the Holy Spirit, because he was already a God , they were against the “Anointing” of Jesus, they were ANTI-CHRISTO’S.
All who preach Jesus was already anointed at birth , are also destroying the “need” for Jesus to recieve the anointing, “Holy Spirit ,” , inorder to be born again by the Spirit of the Living God just like we need to also. .
If you people understood “what , 2ths2, was “really” talking about , you could see that the, “false image or “lie” of “him being a “preexisting” God, Angel, or whatever , is exactly what Jesus will abolish when he returns, he will do it by the breath of his very own mouth.
All who preach those “LIES” are workers of iniquity and will share the same fate, at the return of Jesus.
God’s work was and is “in” humanity, it is the “CROWN JEWEL” of God’s creation, he is not dealing here on this earth with or through any ““preexisting being of anykind”, but “only” through a Son of man, who cam into his “only” existence through mankind. Through the loins of King David, just as it says, and so did Jesus say that also.
No one hear can say they haven’t been forewarned.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene
Prolaimer….. Jesus was the “firstborn” to be given eternal life and enter the kingdom of God “from mankind” .
Proclaimer……here’s one for you people to study, let’s talk about what it is saying go read
Rev 22: 7-13 ……. do you think there were three different beings speaking there Jesus, John, an a Angel, or was it just two, Jesus and John? For those who have eyes to see. Let’s see if you people can see where the trinitarian translators, cleverly shifted and changed the context.
This Proclaimer would be a good new study for us all.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Gene
BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS , I WAS …John 8:38
Jesus never said he was more important than Abraham (although he was) … If he had been, he would have said it clearly so that a child would easily understand him.
bible calls Jesus the Son of God even before his human birth.
Consider Nebuchadnezzar when he saw a fourth figure like the Son of God if the fiery furnace:
He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the
form of the fourth is like the Son of God. (Daniel 3:25)Solomon said:
Who hath established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell? Proverbs 30:4…………….
He was called AT HIS BIRTH on earth the Son of God( in a new sense.)Luk 1:35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
………………….
After his resurrection from the dead , he is declared THE SON OF GOD1] Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
[2] (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
[3] Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
[4] And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:Amen
Good work Berean. He was declared the son of God many times.
And we know that God created the universe through the son.
And if we take the meaning of son, then the one who was first to be with God would have come from God directly and be like him. And an apt title would be the son of God for the first.
Gene and Jodi have no idea who was first despite a certain person that we know being declared first in all things.
Prolaimer….. Jesus was the “firstborn” to be given eternal life and enter the kingdom of God “from mankind”.
Yes, once you die, you will then live again, then you are given life. This however has no bearing on what happened before he came in the flesh.
He came from the Father, and has ascended up to where he was before. He emptied himself, came in the flesh, to live as one of us so that he could save us. He even died and was taken up and we who listen to his voice will also be taken up.
I notice that you practically believe almost none of this. My question to you is Jesus Christ even your Lord? His sheep hear his voice Gene. I say this because you continually demonstrate to us how deaf you are. How can you claim to be his and take an opposing view on the very things he told us?
Proclaimer. …..Jesus never said he was ever “alive before Abraham was”, that your play on words that are not written that way in our text. That is you people forcing the text to say what in fact is not being said or insinuated either.
You people seem so ignorant you can’t even understand, that the Jews were alway using their connection to Abraham, to show their connection to God, John dealt with it by saying God could raise up stones to Abraham if he wanted to. The Jew’s had a big problem, they placed Abraham ahead of Jesus in importance to their connection to God the Father.
Jesus was simply saying that he was more important to them then Abraham was that was the whole issue. You really don’t have to be very smart to understand that, certainly if you claim to have the Spirit of truth in you. Any true bible Scholar would tell you that.
As far as Berean’s claim that JESUS WAS THE ONE NEBUCHADNEZZAR was referring to, as a Son of God, tell us how could Neburchnasser know that? , he never saw a God before, he said he saw something that looked “LIKE” a Son of God, another words someone that looked different the the other three did, it could have been an angel far as that goes, there exist millions if not billions of Sons of God. You people force text, add thoughts, change contexts, to fit you own personal false belife system.
Proclaimer you or they have not produced a single spicific scripture that says Jesus was alive before he was ever born on this earth.. if it is there please produce it, remember I said a single , “SPECIFIC” scripture that say that, says Jesus was alive before he was born on this earth. Not spinoffs, you can force to say that , but a simple “direct” written scripture.
Trust me there is none or me and you would not be arguing this point at all.
Jodi and I have both been telling you people the apsolute truth. Jesus never preexisted his birth on this earth, He came into his “only existence” he ever had when he was born on this earth.
He is the First of Mankind, to abtain to the will of God the Father of the human race, with the help of God , via, the “Anointing Spirit ” the Father gave him after he was baptized by John .
What God accomplished “in” Jesus, can also be accomplished in all of mankind, by the “exact” same way. Jesus was the first human to meet the mark , but certainly will not be the last, even though the last will be exactly the same as him.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene
Berean, Jesus did say it clearly, but you like those Pharisees, miss understood him. They were blind also. That is why Jesus spoke to them in Parables, so they wouldn’t understand, he even said that he spoke to them in parable for that specific reason, just like you don’t understand what he meant either.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
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