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Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 26 2010,15:26) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 26 2010,23:23) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 26 2010,14:41) Dumb and dumber; 
Judge not lest you be judged.Love in Christ,
Marty
Sorry guys,It just struck me that way as I saw the pats on the back.
I am just as dumb as the rest.
Maybe more so, I am a blonde.
The Professor
Hi Professor:No, problem. I forgive you. You made the following comment:
Quote Jesus speaking….God sent/gave His son to the world….which means had to exist previously in order to be given. And that is why I made the comment that it appeared that there was some confusion as to when Jesus was sent into the world.
If you agree that he was not sent into the world until he was anointed for his ministry on earth as God's Christ, then can't you see that yes he did pre-exist this. He was already born into this world. This is when God gave him to the world.
Love in Christ,
MartyThanks Marty,
I wasn't even thinking of “anyone” particular, it just struck a funny bone to see two people chiming in unison….and that was the first thing to pop up….and being Politically Incorrect I failed to hold my tongue against the teaching of James.
Again I apologize to the both of you.
Marty,
I see so many Scriptures that has Jesus pre-existing that I really never thought that he didn't pre-exist.
I feel “dumb-founded” that anyone would try to change what the Bible says to deny it.
There has to be a religion following Satan's lead to try to cause “doubt and confusion” concerning God's written word, the Bible.
I am still a student of the Bible and always willing to learn if the information comes from the Bible that shows me to a different path. That is why I keep asking for Biblical references versus opinions.
There needs to be a Thread that gathers all of the possible “proofs” that show pre-existence and then let the people anniliate them to their heart's desire. IMO
DBF…………..there us no scripture that states Jesus preexisted, If you have found one please Post. forcing text to try to make it say what it doesn't (SPECIFICALLY) say is the problem. Preexistence suppose Jesus preexisted but give (NO) scripture show his preexistence or activity in any of Being , they can even produce one.
Here is so simple question for you to answer.
What was his preexistence name.
What was his positions.
Where any recorded event shown in scripture of his activity prior to his earthly berth.You think you have scriptural proof, Mike thought he do also but when a (TRUE) INVESTIGATION was put forth he simply lost his case, as you would to. IMO
peace and love…………………………gene
Gene,
Gene,
All of the Scriptures that I have seen does just that but, you deny what is written. He places the Scripture and you show nothing to rebutt what was posted, only your denial.
A bit of a change if you don't mind. I am having trouble getting people to go to Gen 1:2 and look up the word “spirit” and give me the parts of speech and the gender…..would you do that for me, as it should take about 1 minute? Thanks
DBF………….Why is the gender of God so important to you. Male and female genders were created for procreation . God is (SPIRIT) that has nothing to do with Gender of any kind. If Spirit is what you are talking about Jesus said that the spirit was like the wind , that is the best example we can give, here is why. The wind is an INVISIBLE FORCE, BUT ITS EFFECTS CAN BE BOTH SEEN AND FELT. If you go outside and the wind is blowing you can feel it and if you look at a tree you can see it effect also. Spirit is the POWER that drives all LIFE from a one live cell to a Elephant all life has this force in it. Everything creature we see moving has this life force working in it. Jeuss gave us the best description of Spirit we can get i believe. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
Hi Gene,
Gender in itself is not important, but the truth is.
If Elohim says that He created man in His image, male and female, it must be important, no?
God Himself SPOKE what He was going to do and then He did it.In Genesis 1 there are 7 “God said,” statements. Why is the one statement in v 26-27 where God is talking about Himself ignored? It is written to increase your “intellect” “knowledge” “understanding” “wisdom” so that you can “counsel” others concerning God.
Amazingly people say that knowing God is irrelevant.
People claim they want the truth but when the truth (Bible) is actually presented they are refusing to become educated and receive its knowledge.
Conversely if you don't know “who” God is how can you “honestly” discuss God? And if you don't want to “truly” know about God, why would you want to know that His son was with Him before the universe was created?
Jhn 17:5 “Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
As Georg would say, this is pretty clear.
It doesn't talk about any “plan” or even allude to it. It is talking “turkey” with specifics…Before the world was, glorify me with the glory which I HAD WITH You.
All of you can easily say that the Muslims won't be saved because they don't have the God and His son of the Bible, because they are following a different God.
I am saying because you want to ignore Scripture and exchange the truths for lies, I can't believe that you have the God of the Bible, either. You have your own created version.
I could, if you'd like (Gene, Marty, Martian, et al), go thru Genesis 1-3 with you and show you information about God. Drop me a PM and we can open a Thread dialoging one point at a time, ok?
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 29 2010,02:12) Hi Gene, Gender in itself is not important, but the truth is.
If Elohim says that He created man in His image, male and female, it must be important, no?
God Himself SPOKE what He was going to do and then He did it.In Genesis 1 there are 7 “God said,” statements. Why is the one statement in v 26-27 where God is talking about Himself ignored? It is written to increase your “intellect” “knowledge” “understanding” “wisdom” so that you can “counsel” others concerning God.
Amazingly people say that knowing God is irrelevant.
People claim they want the truth but when the truth (Bible) is actually presented they are refusing to become educated and receive its knowledge.
Conversely if you don't know “who” God is how can you “honestly” discuss God? And if you don't want to “truly” know about God, why would you want to know that His son was with Him before the universe was created?
Jhn 17:5 “Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
As Georg would say, this is pretty clear.
It doesn't talk about any “plan” or even allude to it. It is talking “turkey” with specifics…Before the world was, glorify me with the glory which I HAD WITH You.
All of you can easily say that the Muslims won't be saved because they don't have the God and His son of the Bible, because they are following a different God.
I am saying because you want to ignore Scripture and exchange the truths for lies, I can't believe that you have the God of the Bible, either. You have your own created version.
I could, if you'd like (Gene, Marty, Martian, et al), go thru Genesis 1-3 with you and show you information about God. Drop me a PM and we can open a Thread dialoging one point at a time, ok?
Please tell me the mission of Christ on the Earth?Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 28 2010,12:37) Thanks Marty, I wasn't even thinking of “anyone” particular, it just struck a funny bone to see two people chiming in unison….and that was the first thing to pop up….and being Politically Incorrect I failed to hold my tongue against the teaching of James.
Again I apologize to the both of you.
David! You are a real Man to apologize. I don't know if you noticed how many have insulted others and never gave an apology….Marty should listen to you and see that you are telling the truth about where Jesus who is now and was The Word of God listed in John1:1-14 and rev, 19:13-16 plain and simple….. I do agree with you why they don't believe and make something else out of it is simple uncalled for…Peace to you, IreneQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 28 2010,15:30) You think you have scriptural proof, Mike thought he do also but when a (TRUE) INVESTIGATION was put forth he simply lost his case, as you would to. IMO
Gene,You haven't actually refuted ANY of the pre-existence scriptures I've posted so far. You just go thread to thread posting your wishes and diversions, not rebuttals.
How again was THE PERSON Jesus in the Father's presence before the world was created? That's what John 17:5 says point blank. There is no “forcing of scripture” here Gene. It just simply says what it says.
Jesus says, “….with the glory that I had in your presence before the world existed.”
He doesn't say “the glory THE THOUGHT OF ME IN YOUR HEAD had……”, he says I.
How do you explain this phenomenon?
mike
OH boy —- Mike is back to teach us. EVERY ONE BACK IN THE MONKEY CAGES AGAIN SO WE CAN BE TAUGHT BY MIKE. LOL
Quote (Guest @ Aug. 13 2010,19:01) In John 17:5 it clearly states that by Jesus own words, He had a glory with His Father in Heaven before the world was. We do know that He is a Spirit Being now, and that is what He was before…Many will say that Christ went to Heaven Body and Soul. We have however Scripture that says that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God……. He was here on earth and He was in Heaven before the world was, emptied Himself and came in the flesh, to die for us…….. I don't think that is to hard to understand. Especially since it is said by Jesus Himself. I don't also think that we should ignore Jesus words….He also has said that He came down from Heaven to do the will of the Father. And other Scriptures too..I thing that John 1:1 also shows us that Jesus who became flesh was called The Word of God….And of course Rev. 19:13-16
Those are all Scriptures that show us what Jesus will come back as…..The Word of God….KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS…
Peace to all….
Good Post, and I agree 100%. Unfortunately there are some who don't. It is funny course it looks like on of my posts I made before. I also know that those Scriptures are plain as can be, however if you try to make something else of them, you are simply blind to those Scriptures. It has happened with not only this Scripture, but all those that proves the Preexisting of Jesus. Mike has a good understanding and He also has nerves of steel. I hate it when they make it personal. He has been called all kinds of names, and keeps on posting… My hat of to Mike…..Peace IreneQuote (Baker @ Aug. 31 2010,02:08) Mike has a good understanding and He also has nerves of steel. I hate it when they make it personal. He has been called all kinds of names, and keeps on posting… My hat of to Mike…..Peace Irene
Hi Irene,It is because of your constantly ignored posts in the “pre-existence” thread that I even started breaking it down into individual scriptures in the first place. All I'm doing is repeating the scriptures you've been quoting all along.
And I don't mind the insults really. Like I told Gene: It says more about them than it does about me.
I just wish they'd actually answer my DIRECT questions with DIRECT answers for once.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (martian @ Aug. 31 2010,01:09) OH boy —- Mike is back to teach us. EVERY ONE BACK IN THE MONKEY CAGES AGAIN SO WE CAN BE TAUGHT BY MIKE. LOL
Ha Ha! They just keep getting funnier Martian.I didn't have any glory in God's presence before the founding of the world, Martian. Do you know why? Because I didn't exist as a person then. And even though God knew before the founding of the world every single breath I would eventually take, I still didn't exist as a person yet.
So your mission is to show why Jesus would use the word “I” in that sentence. “I” is as personal as it gets. “I” signifies that one is/was a living person.
Jesus didn't say, “with the glory the thought of me in your head had…..”, did he? No, he said, “the glory I had……”
Why do you think he put it that way, Martian?
peace and love,
mikeMike…………Jesus did have Glory afforded him from the very beginning of Creation , because it was God Plan that He would be the (FIRST FROM CREATION) TO RECEIVE THAT GLORY. It was reserved for him in GOD the Father so Jesus could very easily say the gory (I) had with the Father in the Beginning before the world was. That glory was to gain eternal life and be the first to be raised from the grave and given possession over all as the first born son. Yes that was great glory afforded him , but to say he preexisted with that glory is false, he attained to it after he was born and came into existence just like us. We also are reserved unto that Glory with Him and even this was foreordained by God the Father just as it was for Jesus. IMO
peace and love……………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 02 2010,01:18) he attained to it after he was born and came into existence just like us.
So if he “attained to it” AFTER he was born as flesh, how could he say he had it before the world?mike
Mike………It was reserved for him in the PLAN and WILL of GOD. Jesus Know that, and could have easily said what he said this show is importance and authority in all things. Can't you see it was all along in God's plan to save Mankind and perfect man and Jesus was the (FIRST) TO ACHIEVE THAT GOAL from mankind. A foreordained GOAL for HIM. God has done this with others as i have mentioned before, Cyrus is a good example of this, He was FOREORDAINED , but was MANIFESTED at the proper time also. Issac was to as well as John the baptist and on and on it goes. GOD is working all things according to the council of (HIS) Will. He cause his purposes to come about in his creation He produces them at the right time. Jesus was a (FOREORDAINED) person NOT a PREEXISTING ONE> A word by the way not found in any scripture , your letting you past indoctrinations cloud the truth Mike come completely out of that and you will begin to see clearly brother. IMO
peace and love…………………………gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 31 2010,11:06) Quote (Baker @ Aug. 31 2010,02:08) Mike has a good understanding and He also has nerves of steel. I hate it when they make it personal. He has been called all kinds of names, and keeps on posting… My hat of to Mike…..Peace Irene
Hi Irene,It is because of your constantly ignored posts in the “pre-existence” thread that I even started breaking it down into individual scriptures in the first place. All I'm doing is repeating the scriptures you've been quoting all along.
And I don't mind the insults really. Like I told Gene: It says more about them than it does about me.
I just wish they'd actually answer my DIRECT questions with DIRECT answers for once.
peace and love,
mike
Mike! I don't believe that insulting another Christian should ever happen. Even if you say you don't mind, but I do. And if they do it to you, they will do it to me and others, if they don't agree…….Taking it one Scripture at the time, is not going to change their minds. Don't you see that?
I have even stopped posting, because it gets sickening to me….We should all respect each other and do not trample on your or my believes…… To me Scriptures is sacred
, and then saying something naughty about how you believe what it says, makes me want to puck…..Peace IreneIrene,
I agree. I want to puke, too. I got tired of the name calling and not addressing the Scriptures.
Jhn 17:21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
Jhn 17:24 “Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.
Mike has shown so many Scriputres demonstrating Jesus' pre-existence and people denying them….makes a person want to vomit.
Rom 1:25(a) For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie,
Gene, could you just answer this question DIRECTLY?
I didn't have any glory in God's presence before the founding of the world, Gene. Do you know why? Because I didn't exist as a person then. And even though God knew before the founding of the world every single breath I would eventually take, I still didn't exist as a person yet.
So your mission is to show why Jesus would use the word “I” in that sentence. “I” is as personal as it gets. “I” signifies that one is/was a living person.
Jesus didn't say, “with the glory the thought of me in your head had…..”, did he? No, he said, “the glory I had……”
WHY DO YOU THINK JESUS WORDED IT THAT WAY GENE?
You said:
Quote Mike………It was reserved for him in the PLAN and WILL of GOD.
Really Gene? Can you show me which scripture says that? And don't go to the “foreordained” place again. Foreordained doesn't mean “pre-existed”. It is the many OTHER scriptures that say “pre-existed”.mike
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