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Quote (Baker @ Sep. 15 2010,17:21) Mike! I don't know how many times I have asked Gene about The Word of God in Rev. 19:13-16 have not received an answer either….. They just don't know what that means……when you blind your blind…. that is all I can see about the whole debate….. to many Scriptures to deny over and over again….. Irene
HI Irene,If when you say “they” are 'you' referring to me,
because I have addresses your confusion MANY TIMES!You have a lot of trouble understanding “Rev.19:11-21” is talking about The “HolySpirit”…
Rev.19:16 talks about his vesture meaning apparel or garments; NOT A ROBE as you assert!“Father: The Word“ = “HolySpirit“
Isaiah means: (YHVH=63) “Ya is Savior”
(Click Here)Isaiah 63:2-10 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel(Jer.4:30), and thy garments like him
that treadeth in the winefat? I (HolySpirit) have trodden the winepress alone (Rev.19:15);
and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample
them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments(Rev.19:13), and I will
stain all my raiment. For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine
own arm brought salvation unto me(Job.40:10-14); and my fury, it upheld me. And I will tread down the
people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength(Ez.28:9) to
the earth. I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, and the praises of the LORD, according to
all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which
he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his loving-
kindnesses. For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Savior.
In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his
pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled, and
vexed his HolySpirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he(HolySpirit) fought against them.The “HolySpirit” is indeed “The Word”; does this information help you(Irene) to understand now? (Mark 4:12)
Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 27:4-5)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 16 2010,13:42) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 15 2010,13:47) Really Gene? Yet ANOTHER diatribe from you once again explaining your human wishes to keep your doctrine how it is despite the fact that many scriptures are clearly against it? 
Not one single direct question that I asked was directly answered. Not one of my understandings of the scriptures was refuted by you. Nope……just more of the “you are the antichrist” crap. I will ask you just two direct questions in this post Gene. You can choose to answer them or run and hide like you have been doing. Did you notice that you're the last one standing? Martian was the first to run away, then Marty. barley is afraid to visit the Phil 2 thread because he has no answer for that last word “human being”. They have all deserted you Gene because they don't want to face the fact that their doctrine is unscriptural.You are the last man standing, and I know how you believe. So let's examine John 1:14-15 together again. Maybe I'm understanding it wrong and you can show me the light……or maybe it's the other way around. But eventually you're going to have to ask yourself, “If I can't even refute the scriptures, why am I hanging on to this doctrine?”
1. Can you refute my claim that the “Word of God” mentioned in Rev is Jesus?
2. Can you refute my claim the the Word who was made flesh in John 1:14 is Jesus?
“Refute” doesn't mean “spout out all of my beliefs with no scriptural backing” Gene. It means you need to show me who else was called the Word and “was made flesh and resided among us”. It means you have to scripturally show that someone other than Jesus is the Lord of lords and King of kings, etc. Do you understand what you need to do? I hope so, because, let's face it, if you can't refute our understanding of what we think are very straightforward scriptures that say Jesus pre-existed, then you might want to rethink your doctrine.
peace and love,
mike
Mike ………….> How simple can you get , you actually think Jesus (IS) THE word of GOD? He is the one speaking (GODS WORDS TO US) Jesus PLAINLY SAID THE WORDS WERE NOT HIS WORDS> Do you need me to quote that for you again to. Jesus is called the word of God in Revelation because He Speaks GODS WORDS to US, but that does NOT make HIM The WORDS He spoke to us. Only your MYSTERY RELIGION MAKES JESUS THE (ACTUAL) WORDS OF GOD. Just another attempt to give Jesus Gods glory as himself being the word of GOD. He is a spokesman who speaks GODS words to Us.But just for you because i doubt you understand this i will quote the scriptures for you.
Joh 17:6…..> I have manifested (THY) name unto the men which thou gave me out of the world: yours they were, and you gave them me; and they have kept (YOUR WORD).
Joh 17:14….> I have given them YOUR WORD; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:17…> Sanctify them through (YOUR TRUTH): (YOUR WORD) IS TRUTH.
Joh 3:34…..> For God has sent speaks the WORDS (OF GOD): because God gives not the Spirit by measure unto him.
Joh 8: 47….> He that is of God hears (GODS WORDS): you therefore hear them not, because you are not of God.
Joh 14: 10….> Believe you not that I am in the Father and the Father in me ? the words that I speak unto you I Speak (NOT) of MYSELF: but the Father that dwell in me, he does the works.
Joh 17: 8 ….> For I have given into them the (WORDS WHICH YOU GAVE ME; and they have recieved them (the Words which GOD gave HIM to Speak) and have known surely that I came out from you and they believe that you did send me.
Now tell us is it GOD the FATHER Words or Jesus' Words Jesus spoke to US.
peace and love ………………….gene
Hi Gene,Good Post brother!
Luke 8:11 …The seed is “The Word” of God.
Acts 12:24 …“The Word” of God grew and multiplied.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 16 2010,14:39) Hi Gene, Once again, thank you for directly answering my question. If you continue to answer, we can continue to discuss.
You said:
Quote Jesus is called the word of God in Revelation because He Speaks GODS WORDS to US, but that does NOT make HIM The WORDS He spoke to us. I agree completely. Now if Jesus is called the WORD of God in Revelation, then why is it such a stretch that the same author would later call him “the WORD” in his gospel? (Which by the way was written AFTER he wrote Revelation)
Do you see it yet? You know John called Jesus the WORD in Rev, so why couldn't John call him the WORD in his gospel? And if it wasn't Jesus, then what other “WORD” became flesh and dwelled among us and had the glory of an only begotten son?
Please answer these – you are only halfway home.
peace and love,
mike
Mike…………Notice “HE IS (CALLED) THE WORD OF GOD. Why? because He spoke GODS WORDS to us, NOT because He (IS) the WORD of GOD, but the spokesmen of those words. But you make (HIM) the WORD HIMSELF. Robbing GOD of Glory and transposing that Glory to Jesus, something Jesus Never did. Being a Representative of someone does not make you that person yourself. All Trinitarians and Preexistences are both robber of GOD, by transferring His Words to being the PERSON of JESUS HIMSELF. This is obvious, as all Trinitarians and Preexistences believe the Word (WORD) in Jon 1:1 means Jesus, instead of GOD HIMSELF.peace and love…………………….gene
EDJ……….Right on, it is when people try to make a person GODS WORDS, that is the big deception Here.
peace and love…………………….gene
Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 16 2010,16:28) Quote (Baker @ Sep. 15 2010,17:21) Mike! I don't know how many times I have asked Gene about The Word of God in Rev. 19:13-16 have not received an answer either….. They just don't know what that means……when you blind your blind…. that is all I can see about the whole debate….. to many Scriptures to deny over and over again….. Irene
HI Irene,If when you say “they” are 'you' referring to me,
because I have addresses your confusion MANY TIMES!You have a lot of trouble understanding “Rev.19:11-21” is talking about The “HolySpirit”…
Rev.19:16 talks about his vesture meaning apparel or garments; NOT A ROBE as you assert!“Father: The Word“ = “HolySpirit“
Isaiah means: (YHVH=63) “Ya is Savior”
(Click Here)Isaiah 63:2-10 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel(Jer.4:30), and thy garments like him
that treadeth in the winefat? I (HolySpirit) have trodden the winepress alone (Rev.19:15);
and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample
them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments(Rev.19:13), and I will
stain all my raiment. For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine
own arm brought salvation unto me(Job.40:10-14); and my fury, it upheld me. And I will tread down the
people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength(Ez.28:9) to
the earth. I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, and the praises of the LORD, according to
all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which
he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his loving-
kindnesses. For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Savior.
In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his
pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled, and
vexed his HolySpirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he(HolySpirit) fought against them.The “HolySpirit” is indeed “The Word”; does this information help you(Irene) to understand now? (Mark 4:12)
Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 27:4-5)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed, so the Holy Spirit had a robe on that was dipped in blood? The Holy Spirit is called KING OF KOINGD AND LORD OF LORDS? To both those statements I say no. I asked gene who that person or being could be? Who is it who comes with A thousand Angels and will strike the nations? It will be Jesus who is the Word of God. He has a robe on dipped in blood. He is coming again and set all straight. Those Scriptures go nicely with John 1:1-14. The Holy Spirit is not a person. You also need to be set straight on that. Again this also will be the last time I will post to you. You and all that don;t believe that Jesus was the Son of God long before the world was and calling my Savior and yours for that matter a liar. He said He came down form Heaven. He said He wants to glory back which He had before the world was.
And when you are denying such Scriptures and say that it means something else, you are calling Him a liar and not me….I believe in Him and know Him. Do you? You seem to think all is Jehovah God's Spirit. That is not so..One more thing, does Jesus who is the Spokesword of God have a nother name? Yes He does…. look for it…..ask for it and it willl be given to you… so says scripture……Peace Ireneedj
this is yours ;;Isaiah 63:2-10 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel(Jer.4:30), and thy garments like him
that treadeth in the winefat? I (HolySpirit) have trodden the winepress alone (Rev.19:15);
and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample
them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments(Rev.19:13), and I will
stain all my raiment. For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine
own arm brought salvation unto me(Job.40:10-14); and my fury, it upheld me. And I will tread down the
people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength(Ez.28:9) to
the earth. I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, and the praises of the LORD, according to
all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which
he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his loving-
kindnesses. For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Savior.
In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his
pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled, and
vexed his HolySpirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he(HolySpirit) fought against them.The “HolySpirit” is indeed “The Word”; does this information help you(Irene) to understand now? (Mark 4:12)
tell me why is the sabbath day was HOLY,during the old testament.??
and tell me why is Gods spirit is HOLY?
could you tell me what version of bible you use ? because i can not read those thing you chow on this comment in my bible the INV.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 17 2010,05:56) edj this is yours ;;Isaiah 63:2-10 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel(Jer.4:30), and thy garments like him
that treadeth in the winefat? I (HolySpirit) have trodden the winepress alone (Rev.19:15);
and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample
them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments(Rev.19:13), and I will
stain all my raiment. For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine
own arm brought salvation unto me(Job.40:10-14); and my fury, it upheld me. And I will tread down the
people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength(Ez.28:9) to
the earth. I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, and the praises of the LORD, according to
all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which
he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his loving-
kindnesses. For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Savior.
In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his
pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled, and
vexed his HolySpirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he(HolySpirit) fought against them.The “HolySpirit” is indeed “The Word”; does this information help you(Irene) to understand now? (Mark 4:12)
tell me why is the sabbath day was HOLY,during the old testament.??
and tell me why is Gods spirit is HOLY?
could you tell me what version of bible you use ? because i can not read those thing you chow on this comment in my bible the INV.
Pierre
No, because you are mixing Rev, and Isaiah. Rev, 19:13 -16 is Jesus. He is the one who will come again as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. That is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not a person. The Holy Spirit cannot strike the nations with the wine-press of God. This is what it says.Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
There is no other person that fits that description….. It also goes along with John 1:1-14. Jesus who is the Spoken Word of God, (He also has another name Yeshua.) I believe it is a title like God and King etc. I can't prove the title part, but He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Plus in John 1:1 verse 14 He became flesh…..
Your asked why the Sabbath was Holy? The Sabbath was being kept as a Holy-day and that made it Holy. Just like all the other Holy Days listed in Lev; 23. It has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit of God. I could also asked you why is the Bible called the Holy Bible? But Holy has many meanings. Just like the Sabbath and the Bible is. It is a title. You see what I mean? I use the KJ and we have a German Bible and the Rye Study Bible, and the Moffat of KJs. They all mostly say the same. Also the KJ is the closest of the original transcripts…. We also have the INV and it says about the same. verse 13 says that He has a name that no one knows….the rest is the same ….. The verses that I wrote on this post is out of the Blue Letter Bible which is the same then my KJ. Why are you quoting Mark 4:12? Listen don't mix things up, you will get in trouble big times….. And don't confuse yourself…… Peace IreneGene:
Quote Mike…………Notice “HE IS (CALLED) THE WORD OF GOD. Why? because He spoke GODS WORDS to us, NOT because He (IS) the WORD of GOD, but the spokesmen of those words
YES! You are exactly right Gene. Jesus is called the Word of God in Rev because he is God's SPOKESMAN. Just as he was called “the Word” in one of John's other books for the same reason. You acknowledge that the “Word of God” in Revelations is Jesus, right? You know it means he is being called the “Spokesman of God”, right? Okay then……you are almost home brother. All John 1:1 is saying is that in the beginning, the Spokesman was with God and was divine. And all John 1:14 is saying is that the Spokesman became flesh and lived among us and had the glory of an only begotten Son.You and Ed think John 1:1 and 1:14 refer to actual “Words” God spoke, but that is simply ludicrous man. When and how did a spoken Word of God become FLESH? Which exact WORD was it that had the glory of an only begotten Son? Was it the word “love”? Was it the word “elephant”? Which WORD was it? God spoke many WORDS, but scripture doesn't say the WORDS of God became flesh, does it? It says THE (as in ONE) WORD.
Gene, you know in your heart that this one WORD is Jesus in Rev, but if it isn't Jesus in John's Gospel, then WHO IS IT?
Gene:
Quote Robbing GOD of Glory and transposing that Glory to Jesus,
Jesus will NEVER share God's glory, and none of us “pre-existers” think he does.Gene:
Quote Being a Representative of someone does not make you that person yourself.
Which one of us “pre-existers” said Jesus was God?Gene:
Quote All Trinitarians and Preexistences are both robber of GOD, by transferring His Words to being the PERSON of JESUS HIMSELF.
Ah…….now I see. You've been lumping us in with trinitarians since we started debating Jesus' pre-existence Gene. One thing has absolutely nothing to do with the other. Irene, Pierre and I all agree that there is only ONE God Jehovah. His Son is not Him nor equal to Him. His Son does not share His glory. But I guess it's easier for you to lump us in together with a doctrine that is clearly unscriptural than it is to actually refute our understanding of the scriptures. Please stop. I go to war constantly against Keith and Jack about the trinity…..and even Kathi about her belief that it's okay to worship Jesus along with his God. Now that this is out in the open, I expect to not see us lumped together with trinitarians anymore…..deal?Ps…it doesn't say “WordS“, just Word.
Gene:
Quote This is obvious, as all Trinitarians and Preexistences believe the Word (WORD) in Jon 1:1 means Jesus, instead of GOD HIMSELF.
So you believe that the Word OF God is God Himself? Where do you get that? Did God Himself become flesh and dwell among us and have the glory of an only begotten Son?Please answer this question from my last post DIRECTLY:
And if it wasn't Jesus, then what other “WORD” became flesh and dwelled among us and had the glory of an only begotten son?
mike
Quote (Baker @ Sep. 17 2010,16:42) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 17 2010,05:56) edj this is yours ;;Isaiah 63:2-10 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel(Jer.4:30), and thy garments like him
that treadeth in the winefat? I (HolySpirit) have trodden the winepress alone (Rev.19:15);
and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample
them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments(Rev.19:13), and I will
stain all my raiment. For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine
own arm brought salvation unto me(Job.40:10-14); and my fury, it upheld me. And I will tread down the
people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength(Ez.28:9) to
the earth. I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, and the praises of the LORD, according to
all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which
he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his loving-
kindnesses. For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Savior.
In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his
pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled, and
vexed his HolySpirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he(HolySpirit) fought against them.The “HolySpirit” is indeed “The Word”; does this information help you(Irene) to understand now? (Mark 4:12)
tell me why is the sabbath day was HOLY,during the old testament.??
and tell me why is Gods spirit is HOLY?
could you tell me what version of bible you use ? because i can not read those thing you chow on this comment in my bible the INV.
Pierre
No, because you are mixing Rev, and Isaiah. Rev, 19:13 -16 is Jesus. He is the one who will come again as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. That is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not a person. The Holy Spirit cannot strike the nations with the wine-press of God. This is what it says.Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
There is no other person that fits that description….. It also goes along with John 1:1-14. Jesus who is the Spoken Word of God, (He also has another name Yeshua.) I believe it is a title like God and King etc. I can't prove the title part, but He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Plus in John 1:1 verse 14 He became flesh…..
Your asked why the Sabbath was Holy? The Sabbath was being kept as a Holy-day and that made it Holy. Just like all the other Holy Days listed in Lev; 23. It has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit of God. I could also asked you why is the Bible called the Holy Bible? But Holy has many meanings. Just like the Sabbath and the Bible is. It is a title. You see what I mean? I use the KJ and we have a German Bible and the Rye Study Bible, and the Moffat of KJs. They all mostly say the same. Also the KJ is the closest of the original transcripts…. We also have the INV and it says about the same. verse 13 says that He has a name that no one knows….the rest is the same ….. The verses that I wrote on this post is out of the Blue Letter Bible which is the same then my KJ. Why are you quoting Mark 4:12? Listen don't mix things up, you will get in trouble big times….. And don't confuse yourself…… Peace Irene
Irenego back and see with your own eyes that, that verse in Is;4 is not me quoting it but it is EDJ ,I only ask the questions
Pierre
Second bump for Ed J
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 12 2010,14:58) [/quote] Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 11 2010,08:31) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 10 2010,13:38) Ed wrote:The focus continues to be the Angels in verse 7, then starting in verse 8 the addressing switches
once again again back to “the Son” with the focus also switching from the angels to “God” and his kingdom.so: 'But unto the Son' therefore means the attention is now
on the son rather than that of the Angels. I hope you found my answer satisfactory?
Hi Ed,(1)You assert that the angels are the focus in 7. (2)But then 8 switches focus to the Son…
mike
Hi Mike,1) Yes
2) Let's try to be accurate; OK?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Okay Ed…..my mistake. How about answering the point I make?7: And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8: But unto the Son, [he saith] Thy throne O God is for ever and ever:
a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.Do you see it? 7 says, To the angels HE SAITH….. Then 8 shows a contrast between what HE SAITH to the angels and what HE SAITH to the Son.
To Ed J I say, “Thank you for actually attempting to answer my question DIRECTLY”. But to Gene, “Stop just agreeing with others and answer the questions yourself.”
Do you see that in the context and flow of the wording, there is an implied “I say” right after “Gene”? To Ed I SAY (this)…… BUT TO GENE (that)…….
It is the same with verse 8 here. Do you see a reason Paul would say, “But unto the Son” if he didn't mean, “But unto the Son HE SAITH?
mike
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 17 2010,11:31) Quote (Baker @ Sep. 17 2010,16:42) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 17 2010,05:56) edj this is yours ;;Isaiah 63:2-10 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel(Jer.4:30), and thy garments like him
that treadeth in the winefat? I (HolySpirit) have trodden the winepress alone (Rev.19:15);
and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample
them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments(Rev.19:13), and I will
stain all my raiment. For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine
own arm brought salvation unto me(Job.40:10-14); and my fury, it upheld me. And I will tread down the
people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength(Ez.28:9) to
the earth. I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, and the praises of the LORD, according to
all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which
he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his loving-
kindnesses. For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Savior.
In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his
pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled, and
vexed his HolySpirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he(HolySpirit) fought against them.The “HolySpirit” is indeed “The Word”; does this information help you(Irene) to understand now? (Mark 4:12)
tell me why is the sabbath day was HOLY,during the old testament.??
and tell me why is Gods spirit is HOLY?
could you tell me what version of bible you use ? because i can not read those thing you chow on this comment in my bible the INV.
Pierre
No, because you are mixing Rev, and Isaiah. Rev, 19:13 -16 is Jesus. He is the one who will come again as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. That is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not a person. The Holy Spirit cannot strike the nations with the wine-press of God. This is what it says.Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
There is no other person that fits that description….. It also goes along with John 1:1-14. Jesus who is the Spoken Word of God, (He also has another name Yeshua.) I believe it is a title like God and King etc. I can't prove the title part, but He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Plus in John 1:1 verse 14 He became flesh…..
Your asked why the Sabbath was Holy? The Sabbath was being kept as a Holy-day and that made it Holy. Just like all the other Holy Days listed in Lev; 23. It has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit of God. I could also asked you why is the Bible called the Holy Bible? But Holy has many meanings. Just like the Sabbath and the Bible is. It is a title. You see what I mean? I use the KJ and we have a German Bible and the Rye Study Bible, and the Moffat of KJs. They all mostly say the same. Also the KJ is the closest of the original transcripts…. We also have the INV and it says about the same. verse 13 says that He has a name that no one knows….the rest is the same ….. The verses that I wrote on this post is out of the Blue Letter Bible which is the same then my KJ. Why are you quoting Mark 4:12? Listen don't mix things up, you will get in trouble big times….. And don't confuse yourself…… Peace Irene
Irenego back and see with your own eyes that, that verse in Is;4 is not me quoting it but it is EDJ ,I only ask the questions
Pierre
And what does that matter what else you asked me? And if you said that the Holy Spirit is The Word of God when you said ( Irene) come on, what are you trying to say????You said that indeed the Word of God is the Holy Spirit, which it is not…….The Holy Spirit is not a He, it is like hope, patience, etc………The Holy Spiirt lives in us, so how can that be a person??? Peace IreneIrene
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 17 2010,05:56)
edjthis is yours ;
;Isaiah 63:2-10 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel(Jer.4:30), and thy garments like him
that treadeth in the winefat? I (HolySpirit) have trodden the winepress alone (Rev.19:15);
and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample
them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments(Rev.19:13), and I will
stain all my raiment. For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine
own arm brought salvation unto me(Job.40:10-14); and my fury, it upheld me. And I will tread down the
people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength(Ez.28:9) to
the earth. I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, and the praises of the LORD, according to
all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which
he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his loving-
kindnesses. For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Savior.
In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his
pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled, and
vexed his HolySpirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he(HolySpirit) fought against them.The “HolySpirit” is indeed “The Word”; does this information help you(Irene) to understand now? (Mark 4:12)
——————————————————————————————
————————this is mine whats follow,
tell me why is the sabbath day was HOLY,during the old testament.??
and tell me why is Gods spirit is HOLY?
could you tell me what version of bible you use ? because i can not read those thing you chow on this comment in my bible the INV.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 17 2010,17:21) Irene Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 17 2010,05:56)
edjthis is yours ;
;Isaiah 63:2-10 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel(Jer.4:30), and thy garments like him
that treadeth in the winefat? I (HolySpirit) have trodden the winepress alone (Rev.19:15);
and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample
them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments(Rev.19:13), and I will
stain all my raiment. For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine
own arm brought salvation unto me(Job.40:10-14); and my fury, it upheld me. And I will tread down the
people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength(Ez.28:9) to
the earth. I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, and the praises of the LORD, according to
all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which
he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his loving-
kindnesses. For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Savior.
In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his
pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled, and
vexed his HolySpirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he(HolySpirit) fought against them.The “HolySpirit” is indeed “The Word”; does this information help you(Irene) to understand now? (Mark 4:12)
——————————————————————————————
————————
this is mine whats follow,
tell me why is the sabbath day was HOLY,during the old testament.??
and tell me why is Gods spirit is HOLY?
could you tell me what version of bible you use ? because i can not read those thing you chow on this comment in my bible the INV.
Pierre
You quoted that before. However that did not answer my question. The Holy Spirit is not a Person. And John 1:1-14 and Rev. 19:13-16 talks about Jesus and not the Holy Spirit. A person cannot be in us, but God's Holy Spirit is, at least those who understand the truth by proving it.
The Holy Spirit is not KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS, but Jesus is. The Holy Spirit does not have a robe on dipped in blood, but Jesus does. The Holy Spirit is not coming to smite the nations, but Jesus will. Jesus also has another name. What you are quoting in Rev. 19:15 is not what it says. But what it does say in the INV Bible Rev. 19:15Out of His mouth comes a sharp sword, with which it strikes down the nations. He will rule them with a rod of iron scepter. He treads the wine press of the furry of the wrath of Almighty God. That is not the Holy Spirit that is Jesus, He will come again with His Saints and rule……. IreneQuote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 17 2010,13:57) Second bump for Ed J Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 12 2010,14:58) Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 11 2010,08:31) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 10 2010,13:38) Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 09 2010,16:31) The focus continues to be the Angels in verse 7, then starting in verse 8 the addressing switches
once again again back to “the Son” with the focus also switching from the angels to “God” and his kingdom.so: 'But unto the Son' therefore means the attention is now
on the son rather than that of the Angels. I hope you found my answer satisfactory?
Hi Ed,(1)You assert that the angels are the focus in 7. (2)But then 8 switches focus to the Son…
mike
Hi Mike,1) Yes
2) Let's try to be accurate; OK?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Okay Ed…..my mistake. How about answering the point I make?7: And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8: But unto the Son, [he saith] Thy throne O God is for ever and ever:
a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.Do you see it? 7 says, To the angels HE SAITH….. Then 8 shows a contrast between what HE SAITH to the angels and what HE SAITH to the Son.
To Ed J I say, “Thank you for actually attempting to answer my question DIRECTLY”. But to Gene, “Stop just agreeing with others and answer the questions yourself.”
Do you see that in the context and flow of the wording, there is an implied “I say” right after “Gene”? To Ed I SAY (this)…… BUT TO GENE (that)…….
It is the same with verse 8 here. Do you see a reason Paul would say, “But unto the Son” if he didn't mean, “But unto the Son HE SAITH?
mike
Hi Mike,Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8: But unto the Son, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre
of thy kingdom. 9: Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God,
hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 10: And, Thou, LORD, in the beginning
hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: (Compare to Psalm 102:25-26)There is no “HE SAITH” in verse 8; that was added by the translators?
Verse 9 clearly indicates Jesus' God is God. Why do you let verse 8 confuse you?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Baker @ Sep. 18 2010,01:23) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 17 2010,17:21) Irene Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 17 2010,05:56)
edjthis is yours ;
;Isaiah 63:2-10 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel(Jer.4:30), and thy garments like him
that treadeth in the winefat? I (HolySpirit) have trodden the winepress alone (Rev.19:15);
and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample
them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments(Rev.19:13), and I will
stain all my raiment. For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine
own arm brought salvation unto me(Job.40:10-14); and my fury, it upheld me. And I will tread down the
people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength(Ez.28:9) to
the earth. I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, and the praises of the LORD, according to
all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which
he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his loving-
kindnesses. For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Savior.
In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his
pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled, and
vexed his HolySpirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he(HolySpirit) fought against them.The “HolySpirit” is indeed “The Word”; does this information help you(Irene) to understand now? (Mark 4:12)
——————————————————————————————
————————
this is mine whats follow,
tell me why is the sabbath day was HOLY,during the old testament.??
and tell me why is Gods spirit is HOLY?
could you tell me what version of bible you use ? because i can not read those thing you chow on this comment in my bible the INV.
Pierre
You quoted that before. However that did not answer my question. The Holy Spirit is not a Person. And John 1:1-14 and Rev. 19:13-16 talks about Jesus and not the Holy Spirit. A person cannot be in us, but God's Holy Spirit is, at least those who understand the truth by proving it.
The Holy Spirit is not KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS, but Jesus is. The Holy Spirit does not have a robe on dipped in blood, but Jesus does. The Holy Spirit is not coming to smite the nations, but Jesus will. Jesus also has another name. What you are quoting in Rev. 19:15 is not what it says. But what it does say in the INV Bible Rev. 19:15Out of His mouth comes a sharp sword, with which it strikes down the nations. He will rule them with a rod of iron scepter. He treads the wine press of the furry of the wrath of Almighty God. That is not the Holy Spirit that is Jesus, He will come again with His Saints and rule……. Irene
Irenewhy would i have change now i never believed in the trinity,
the comment i made was for EDJ,but i can see you do not want to see it,
and EDJ responded to you ,it is the views of EDJ not mine,
and i know what the Holy spirit is and not is,
I am not confused,all is as you quote in revelation,
all my questions where addressed to EDJ,not to you,
I hope this is now clear up.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 17 2010,23:12) Quote (Baker @ Sep. 18 2010,01:23) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 17 2010,17:21) Irene Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 17 2010,05:56)
edjthis is yours ;
;Isaiah 63:2-10 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel(Jer.4:30), and thy garments like him
that treadeth in the winefat? I (HolySpirit) have trodden the winepress alone (Rev.19:15);
and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample
them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments(Rev.19:13), and I will
stain all my raiment. For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine
own arm brought salvation unto me(Job.40:10-14); and my fury, it upheld me. And I will tread down the
people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength(Ez.28:9) to
the earth. I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, and the praises of the LORD, according to
all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which
he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his loving-
kindnesses. For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Savior.
In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his
pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled, and
vexed his HolySpirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he(HolySpirit) fought against them.The “HolySpirit” is indeed “The Word”; does this information help you(Irene) to understand now? (Mark 4:12)
——————————————————————————————
————————
this is mine whats follow,
tell me why is the sabbath day was HOLY,during the old testament.??
and tell me why is Gods spirit is HOLY?
could you tell me what version of bible you use ? because i can not read those thing you chow on this comment in my bible the INV.
Pierre
You quoted that before. However that did not answer my question. The Holy Spirit is not a Person. And John 1:1-14 and Rev. 19:13-16 talks about Jesus and not the Holy Spirit. A person cannot be in us, but God's Holy Spirit is, at least those who understand the truth by proving it.
The Holy Spirit is not KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS, but Jesus is. The Holy Spirit does not have a robe on dipped in blood, but Jesus does. The Holy Spirit is not coming to smite the nations, but Jesus will. Jesus also has another name. What you are quoting in Rev. 19:15 is not what it says. But what it does say in the INV Bible Rev. 19:15Out of His mouth comes a sharp sword, with which it strikes down the nations. He will rule them with a rod of iron scepter. He treads the wine press of the furry of the wrath of Almighty God. That is not the Holy Spirit that is Jesus, He will come again with His Saints and rule……. Irene
Irenewhy would i have change now i never believed in the trinity,
the comment i made was for EDJ,but i can see you do not want to see it,
and EDJ responded to you ,it is the views of EDJ not mine,
and i know what the Holy spirit is and not is,
I am not confused,all is as you quote in revelation,
all my questions where addressed to EDJ,not to you,
I hope this is now clear up.
Pierre
terraricca! We are not talkng about the trinity here. I do know that the post was from Ed., you however have a problem making yourself clear. You say that you don't believe in a trinity, and that is good. Next time you make a post don;t post something someone else said, rather say what you believe. You asked me all kinds of questions and then don't respond to it….. How am I to know what you believe……I don't read every post you make to others.
So I am glad though that you agree with Rev.
IreneQuote (Baker @ Sep. 18 2010,08:30) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 17 2010,23:12) Quote (Baker @ Sep. 18 2010,01:23) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 17 2010,17:21) Irene Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 17 2010,05:56)
edjthis is yours ;
;Isaiah 63:2-10 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel(Jer.4:30), and thy garments like him
that treadeth in the winefat? I (HolySpirit) have trodden the winepress alone (Rev.19:15);
and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample
them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments(Rev.19:13), and I will
stain all my raiment. For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine
own arm brought salvation unto me(Job.40:10-14); and my fury, it upheld me. And I will tread down the
people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength(Ez.28:9) to
the earth. I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, and the praises of the LORD, according to
all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which
he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his loving-
kindnesses. For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Savior.
In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his
pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled, and
vexed his HolySpirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he(HolySpirit) fought against them.The “HolySpirit” is indeed “The Word”; does this information help you(Irene) to understand now? (Mark 4:12)
——————————————————————————————
————————
this is mine whats follow,
tell me why is the sabbath day was HOLY,during the old testament.??
and tell me why is Gods spirit is HOLY?
could you tell me what version of bible you use ? because i can not read those thing you chow on this comment in my bible the INV.
Pierre
You quoted that before. However that did not answer my question. The Holy Spirit is not a Person. And John 1:1-14 and Rev. 19:13-16 talks about Jesus and not the Holy Spirit. A person cannot be in us, but God's Holy Spirit is, at least those who understand the truth by proving it.
The Holy Spirit is not KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS, but Jesus is. The Holy Spirit does not have a robe on dipped in blood, but Jesus does. The Holy Spirit is not coming to smite the nations, but Jesus will. Jesus also has another name. What you are quoting in Rev. 19:15 is not what it says. But what it does say in the INV Bible Rev. 19:15Out of His mouth comes a sharp sword, with which it strikes down the nations. He will rule them with a rod of iron scepter. He treads the wine press of the furry of the wrath of Almighty God. That is not the Holy Spirit that is Jesus, He will come again with His Saints and rule……. Irene
Irenewhy would i have change now i never believed in the trinity,
the comment i made was for EDJ,but i can see you do not want to see it,
and EDJ responded to you ,it is the views of EDJ not mine,
and i know what the Holy spirit is and not is,
I am not confused,all is as you quote in revelation,
all my questions where addressed to EDJ,not to you,
I hope this is now clear up.
Pierre
terraricca! We are not talkng about the trinity here. I do know that the post was from Ed., you however have a problem making yourself clear. You say that you don't believe in a trinity, and that is good. Next time you make a post don;t post something someone else said, rather say what you believe. You asked me all kinds of questions and then don't respond to it….. How am I to know what you believe……I don't read every post you make to others.
So I am glad though that you agree with Rev.
Irene
hi IreneI am glad this is over,
as for my believes and faith you can read what i have said ,that s basically all whats in the scriptures taught by God and Christ and his disciples.what happen is a good experience for me ,and will not be repeat it.
well again sorry for the disturbance.
Pierre
Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 17 2010,19:40) There is no “HE SAITH” in verse 8; that was added by the translators?
Verse 9 clearly indicates Jesus' God is God. Why do you let verse 8 confuse you?
Hi Ed,The “he saith” is implied, and you prove that point by admitting it is Jesus who God has anointed with the oil of gladness.
“Therefore God (Jesus), YOUR God (YHVH) has set you above your companions…..”
So apparently the “But unto the Son” really means “But unto the Son [He says]……”, right?
mike
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 18 2010,13:56) hi Irene I am glad this is over,
Me too
Irene mistakenly applied something you were quoting that Ed said as something you yourself were asserting, Pierre.
Pierre, I notice you know how to cut and paste others posts. Maybe you should use the “quote” button above the place where you're typing your response. Copy what they said, then push “Quote” once, then paste what they said, and push “Quote” a second time. It will post what they said in a quote box and that will keep it separate from your response.
Just a thought,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 18 2010,21:50) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 18 2010,13:56) hi Irene I am glad this is over,
Me too Irene mistakenly applied something you were quoting that Ed said as something you yourself were asserting, Pierre.
Pierre, I notice you know how to cut and paste others posts. Maybe you should use the “quote” button above the place where you're typing your response. Copy what they said, then push “Quote” once, then paste what they said, and push “Quote” a second time. It will post what they said in a quote box and that will keep it separate from your response.
Just a thought,
mike
hi mikeQuote [Pierre, I notice you know how to cut and paste others posts. Maybe you should use the “quote” button above the place where you're typing your response. Copy what they said, then push “Quote” once, then paste what they said, and push “Quote” a second time. It will post what they said in a quote box and that will keep it separate from your response/QUOTE] like this
Pierre
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