John 1:1 in the beginning… which beginning?

[Cindy]

kerwin I did not say that the Word was or is Wisdom.
Proverb 8:22-30 Some might say that those verses speak of Wisdom, I do not. I believe it is talking about Jesus.
Irene

[GeneBalthrop]

Kerwin…….Wisdom is probably the greatest attribute one can Have, Notice how wisdom is personified like a person, but we know wisdom is not a person but and Intellect or Spirit. Also notice that (IT) references the LORD as a (HE) or HIM , but does not use the word GOD, Why?, could it be because it is one of the seven  Spirits (intellects) of GOD (ITSELF). GOD is not a person, It is the  ELOHIM or POWERS of the PERSON whose name is the LORD> And He Exists with ELOHIM , GOD or POWERS> John 1:1 is not referencing Jesus at all  IMO

peace and love……………………gene

[kerwin]

Quote (Cindy @ June 02 2009,07:21)

kerwin I did not say that the Word was or is Wisdom. Proverb 8:22-30  Some might say that those verses speak of Wisdom, I do not.  I believe it is talking about Jesus. Irene

Thank you for the correction. Still Wisdom and the Word seem to be the same to me.

[Cindy]

kerwin So in John 1:1 is Wisdom? And wisdom became flesh? That deos not compute. Wisdom is what someone possesses, like Love and patience etc.
Proverns 8 : 22-30 Especially
verse 30 So you think that Wisdom could be beside the Father, and it was His delight?
No Wisdom here, either.
Maybe you need to rethink this, kerwin.
Peace and Love Irene

[Paladin]

Quote (kerwin @ June 02 2009,17:27)

Quote (Kerwin) Still Wisdom and the Word seem to be the same to me.

How would you explain – if logos IS wisdom, then what is logos OF wisdom, and logos OF knowledge? Would that then be wisdom of knowledge? Or logos of logos?

1 Corinthians 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

What then of “logos of Christ?” If logos is “OF” Christ, how could logos BE Christ?

Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

[Admin]

Quote (Guest @ May 31 2009,23:45)

Hello Gene; Well, I started the day with another one of those pesky e-mails – Hi You have been sent this email as your registration process has been cancelled You can reregister at https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi at any time. Regards The Forum Team ———————————————————– No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG – http://www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2144 – Release Date: 05/30/09 17:53:00 At least I am allowed back on the board so maybe it is just a glitch. We'll see. (Gene)

Hi Paladin.

You are good to go now.
Sorry about the previous cancellation(s).

Your email address didn't make it passed the spam filters originally as it probably resembled a spammer that has been here.

I can see that you are legit, so I apologise for this.

We catch 99% of the spammers but sometimes they get through the defences and I have to retaliate with a heavy hand. Sometimes too heavy though. So you got caught in the crossfire.

[Paladin]

Quote (heaven @ June 06 2009,00:51)

Guest,May wrote: Hello Gene; Well, I started the day with another one of those pesky e-mails – Hi You have been sent this email as your registration process has been cancelled You can reregister at https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi at any time. Regards The Forum Team ———————————————————– No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG – http://www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2144 – Release Date: 05/30/09 17:53:00 At least I am allowed back on the board so maybe it is just a glitch. We'll see. Quote (Gene) Hi Paladin. You are good to go now. Sorry about the previous cancellation(s). Your email address didn't make it passed the spam filters originally as it probably resembled a spammer that has been here. I can see that you are legit, so I apologise for this. We catch 99% of the spammers but sometimes they get through the defences and I have to retaliate with a heavy hand. Sometimes too heavy though. So you got caught in the crossfire.

I appreciate very much, the fact that you took the time to explain what was happening.

Apology accepted.

I was beginning to think bad things about some of those who were responding, and it is unfair of me to think so of them, for which I in turn, offer apology. I apologize.

I shall make an earnest attmept to be more patient.

Thanks again!

[kerwin]

Paladin wrote:

Quote

How would you explain –  if logos IS wisdom, then what is logos OF wisdom, and logos OF knowledge? Would that then be wisdom of knowledge? Or logos of logos?

I am of the opinion that John was implying, despite not spelling it out, that he was speaking of the word of Wisdom to those who knew scripture as they would know that the Word of Wisdom was with God and was God in the beginning.   Word of Wisdom is pretty much how Arisitotle applied the term and it may not be too far off from others meanings of it.

Here is what Wikipedia states about the word “logos”.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Aristotle is your mentor?
A philosopher?

[Cindy]

Quote (kerwin @ June 06 2009,18:31)

Paladin wrote: Quote How would you explain –  if logos IS wisdom, then what is logos OF wisdom, and logos OF knowledge? Would that then be wisdom of knowledge? Or logos of logos? I am of the opinion that John was implying, despite not spelling it out, that he was speaking of the word of Wisdom to those who knew scripture as they would know that the Word of Wisdom was with God and was God in the beginning.   Word of Wisdom is pretty much how Arisitotle applied the term and it may not be too far off from others meanings of it. Here is what Wikipedia states about the word “logos”.

kerwin  Again and that wisdom became flesh and dwelt among us? Come on, Brother, that makes no sense. IMO it is not so.
The Word in John 1:1 is God and was with God. In verse 14
The Word became flesh. That Scripture goes right along with other Scriptures that prove that Christ preexisted, before becoming a man. Look up in that tread.
Irene

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2009,13:49)

Hi KW, Aristotle is your mentor? A philosopher?

I was speaking of word usage, as in word definition, not of philosophy. My argument in case you did not catch on is that the way the word logos has been used is consistent with applying Proverbs 8 to John 1 with logos = wisdom. John may have been familiar with Aristotle but I do not know if he was or not. I do know that he would have used logos after the acceptable usage of that time.

[GeneBalthrop]

Kerwin…….. The word LOGOS, came from the Greek word LOGIC, and it can even be applied that way in John 1:1 and it will make sense to any one who can understand a (word) is the expression of ones Logic or intellect. A word is simply an expression of Intellect and intellect is the LOGIC of that person, and of course GOD'S WORDS are LOGICAL and full of wisdom, to those who understand them. Its false religion that has turned GOD truths into what is not logical.  IMO

peace and love………………….gene

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Gene @ June 07 2009,15:51)

Kerwin…….. The word LOGOS, came from the Greek word LOGIC, and it can even be applied that way in John 1:1 and it will make sense to any one who can understand a (word) is the expression of ones Logic or intellect. A word is simply an expression of Intellect and intellect is the LOGIC of that person, and of course GOD'S WORDS are LOGICAL and full of wisdom, to those who understand them. Its false religion that has turned GOD truths into what is not logical.  IMO peace and love………………….gene

Gene,
You keep ignoring verse 14 which says that the word BECAME FLESH. This means that the Word is a Person. I agree that the word “logos” comes from the Greek word logic. So what? No word is defined all by itself. A word is defined by the group of words which surround it. In other words, it all about context.

The context indicates that the Word became flesh. This means that the Word has personality.

thinker

[GeneBalthrop]

Thinker………Speak a million word and non will actually become Flesh. The word of GOD can (INDWELL) any flesh, but never actually become Flesh, that is just a way mystery religion looks at things. Thinker remember Jesus said the word he spoke were (NOT) HIS. so how do you reconcile this with your thinking brother.

peace and love to you and yours………………………………….gene

[NickHassan]

4 kat

[Cindy]

The “Word/Logos” was the son, he was the spokes person or mouth pies for the Father because, no man at “any time” has heard God's voice or seen his form.
We read in the bible, “in the beginning was the word..”, we also read, “in the beginning God created the heaven and earth”. Now, we all believe the earth had a beginning; what is so different about the word “beginning” of the WORD?
Lucifer was created perfect, and yet Jesus said, he was a murderer from the beginning; so who is wrong?

Georg

[eveh]

The word of
God. Jesus brought us the word of God which was with
God, in the beginning. Not Jesus in the beginning, the
word of God was there in the beginning. Jesus brought
forth the word of God. He manifested the word to us.

[Cindy]

eveh

The “word” became flesh; which “word”?

Georg

[eveh]

Cindy,
The word of eternal lifel

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (eveh @ Sep. 02 2009,17:51)

The word of God. Jesus brought us the word of God which was with God, in the beginning. Not Jesus in the beginning, the word of God was there in the beginning. Jesus brought forth the word of God. He manifested the word to us.

eveh………….You have it right, Jesus brought us GOD the FATHERS Words, He himself was not the words He brought us. He even said the words I am telling you are (NOT) mine.

[Author]

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