John 1

Blocked

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 08 2010,00:26)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 06 2010,14:11)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2010,16:30)

A. I said the HolySpirit was “in” Jesus. (John 1:33-34 / Acts 10:38)

Okay Ed,

So if the holy spirit is IN Jesus, then it can't actually BE Jesus, right?

mike

Hi Mike,

Psalm 100:3 Know ye that The LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us,
and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture. (Click Here)

Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed,

Luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.

There are three mentioned. And one is called the Father of Jesus……..and that one is NOT His Holy Spirit.

peace and love,
mike

August 7, 2010 at 1:55 pm#207993

Blocked

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 06 2010,17:01)

But its strange that it starts out both about the beginning,
than about what was made,
than about the light,
and than the darkness

Does this mean anything?

Hi Dennison,

That is a cool realization, brother. And it's worth a closer look.

mike

August 7, 2010 at 2:04 pm#207995

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2010,08:53)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 08 2010,00:26)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 06 2010,14:11)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2010,16:30)

A. I said the HolySpirit was “in” Jesus. (John 1:33-34 / Acts 10:38)

Okay Ed,

So if the holy spirit is IN Jesus, then it can't actually BE Jesus, right?

mike

Hi Mike,

Psalm 100:3 Know ye that The LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us,
and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture. (Click Here)

Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed,

There are three mentioned. And one is called the Father of Jesus……..and that one is NOT His Holy Spirit.

peace and love,
mike

Hello Mike,

Great responses. When I saw you answered well my thoughts automatically went here:

Mar 4:12 so that WHILE SEEING, THEY MAY SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, AND WHILE HEARING, THEY MAY HEAR AND NOT UNDERSTAND, OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT RETURN AND BE FORGIVEN.”

Keep trying..someday it might get thru.

The Professor

August 7, 2010 at 2:12 pm#207996

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2010,08:55)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 06 2010,17:01)

But its strange that it starts out both about the beginning,
than about what was made,
than about the light,
and than the darkness

Does this mean anything?

Hi Dennison,

That is a cool realization, brother. And it's worth a closer look.

mike

Hey Mike & Dennison,

Many exciting similarities…..

Because of these threads it gets the mind to look at things differently:

At first glance we read Genesis as factual and full of information: Then as is pointed out here creation is a “typology” of Christ.

Spectacular!!

The Professor

August 7, 2010 at 3:04 pm#208001

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 07 2010,01:01)

To add to the topic:
Isnt it also strange that

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
John1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Gensis1:2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
John1:2The same was in the beginning with God. (3)All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Genesis1:3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
John1:4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Genesis1:4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
John1:5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Gensis1:5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

I tried to put them side by side, but i obvousily failed at doing that.

But its strange that it starts out both about the beginning,
than about what was made,
than about the light,
and than the darkness

Does this mean anything?

Hello Dennison,

When I explain “Creation” I have to start “In the Beginning..” which is Col 1:15 (&Rev 3:14) with Christ (THE BEGINNING) being the firstborn of all creation…

Then in John 1:1 THE BEGINNING (Christ) was “with” God. The Beginning was … “Word”. So my mind wondered, “What IF Jesus' name before he became “Jesus” was “WORD”? This name would go along with what he did, too. Angel of the LORD = messenger —gives words. God said…..WORD does. WORD “OF” (from) God speaks for God.

(Or maybe his name was “WONDERFUL” Judges 13:18 But the angel of the LORD said to him, “Why do you ask my name, seeing it is wonderful?” … and God said it was “Good”.)

Dennison: Other parallels that I can see, going along with your beginning….(but not exact in order)

Air = In him is Life
Water = Jesus the living water (Life)
Land = Jesus is the Rock and foundation we are to stand on; “world” was made thru him
Fish/Birds/Animals/Man = Apart from him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Gen 1:1 God created (John 1:3) eveything thru His son…

John 1:5 Light/Darkness = Good (Tree of life) & Evil (Tree of knowledge)

John 1:7 testify of the light Gen 1:14ff (lights): Sun (Father), moon (Holy Spirit), stars (Son)(John 1:12 children of God)

Yes, it seems to mean that God gives us clues in many varied and exciting ways, no? So that everytime we read the Bible we can see another way of how Jesus is the center….of our universe and the Bible.

Thanks for the insights.

The Professor

August 7, 2010 at 3:32 pm#208005

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Dbf………..In (THE) beginning is referencing the beginning of everything that ever existed, The definite article (THE) Plants that beginning as the (very beginning) of everything that ever existed. If John wanted to say the Beginning of some later time periods he would have said which beginnings he was talking about. But because he did not say that then we must conclude He was talking about the very beginning of everything that ever existed. IMO

peace and love………………………..gene

August 8, 2010 at 3:15 am#208079

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 08 2010,10:32)

peace and love………………………..gene

Hello Gene,

Thanks for the concern. I extrapolated information from John, Colossians and Revelation in order to make points that were alluded to in John. But to address your concern of WHAT is “THE BEGINNING”:

Let's take things in stages, ok?

STAGE 1: (Before the beginning)

#1- God exists! Nothing but God! Not even time!
This means that God has no beginning (nor end for that matter). Time does not exist for God and “beginning” is a point in time. You can't “compare” God as “First” OR “last” either since there is no other. God EXISTS and is THE ONLY.

STAGE 2: (THE BEGINNING)

#2 – Jesus is the firstborn of all creation Col 1:15. Son of God; God's only begotten son.

#3 – Jesus is the beginning of the creation of God Rev 3:14. Time begins with Jesus. Jesus is THE BEGINNING.

#4 – Jesus is BEFORE all things Col 1:16

#5 – Jesus is preeminent (first place) in all things Col 1:18

#6 – Jesus holds all things together Col 1:17

#7 – Jesus IS Eternal Life 1 John 1:2…that was WITH God (and isn't God whom he was WITH)…and came in the flesh that the disciples touched.

STAGE 3: (The Creation)

#8 – Jesus created all things Col 1:16

#9 – God, THRU Jesus, created all things John 1:3

CONCLUSION:

Since God has NO beginning and Jesus is/was THE BEGINNING as pointed out in STAGE 2, why would you NOT say that Jesus is “THE BEGINNING”? Who was in the beginning with Jesus? God!

“IN” Jesus is Eternal Life…therefore he is THE END, too.

THRU Jesus everything was created and therefore Jesus is our Creator,,,,,but NOT our God.

When you can understage these stages, God, Jesus, time and creation aren't so difficult to see and understand.

Gene, if you dispute what is written you end up creating doubt and confusion for yourself and nothing will make sense, so it would be up to you on how you want to view God's word.

May you be filled with the Peace of God that surpasses all understanding.

The Professor.

August 8, 2010 at 7:29 am#208083

Participant

Hi guys,
You are talking about something that is very important to me. I have been saying this for some time:

Quote

In the beginning was the word…”Let there be light”

and the word was with GOD…and the “Light” was with God

and the word was God…and the word “Light” was the God of GOD

The Light was the firstborn of all creation, see Col. 1

and

Quote

I was challenged to know the meaning of the term “firstborn of all creation” by some JW's. I remember not seeing that verse before. I had always thought that the Son of God had eternally existed.

I surrendered my previous views on the trinity doctrine if they were not accurate. I just wanted truth.

I began reading the gospels like there was a different emphasis that I had been missing, a different perspective…one that the Son of God was soooo apparent as a Son who was begotten of God and that was referred to as God but not equal to His Father and was a Son who took an active part in creation.

I was studying the Bible for many hours a day and not seeking extra-Biblical literature.

I wondered if I was going to have to attend a different type of church than my family since my husband was and still is a Trinitarian. I decided that as long as the church believes in the inerrancies of the scriptures, I could still attend. Also, my husband was the spiritual leader in the home and I continue going to church with him.

After 1 month of seeing the Son of God as actually born of God (not created) before creation, I was still studying alot but took a break and was teaching my son and reviewing the days of creation. I asked him what happened on day one. He said that God said “Let there be Light” and at that moment without question, I heard a whisper in my left ear say “You are the Light of the world” and I paused and just thought…WOW! How simple, could that be when the Son was born? I have tested that connection and have peace with the understanding that yes, the terms “firstborn of all creation” and “Let there be Light” are related. It has helped everything come together for me in a way that the trinity doctrine did not.

That was about 16 years ago and I haven't found any reason to disprove it.

Both above quotes from here: https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;st=150

Just a few minutes ago I found this quote from Tertullian and I could hardly believe it:

Quote

200 AD Tertullian “[W]hen God says, 'Let there be light' [Gen. 1:3], this is the perfect nativity of the Word, while he is proceeding from God. . . . Thus, the Father makes him equal to himself, and the Son, by proceeding from him, was made the first-begotten, since he was begotten before all things, and the only-begotten, because he alone was begotten of God, in a manner peculiar to himself, from the womb of his own heart, to which even the Father himself gives witness: 'My heart has poured forth my finest Word' [Ps. 45:1Against Praxeas 7:1).

from here: from: http://www.bible.ca/H-trinity.htm

I'm really happy about this

Kathi

August 8, 2010 at 10:11 am#208085

Proclaimer

Participant

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Mar. 31 2010,04:34)

God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. This disproves that He is God how?

thinker

Quite simple to prove.

Do you have God inside you or has God ever lived inside you?

If you think yes, are you God?

August 8, 2010 at 10:13 am#208086

shimmer

Participant

All, I posted this a while back,

“The light shines in the darkness, the darkness has not overcome it.” 　

“For at one time you were darkness, now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light.”

“The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light.”
　
What is this Light?
What is God?…God is love
　
“At the same time, it is a new commandment that I am writing you, which is true in him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining. Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness. Whoever loves his brother abides in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling. But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.”

Maybe the light is love and the dark is hate and hate has never overcome love ? What are the commandments – to love God and love neighbour and in that it is all summed up,

August 8, 2010 at 12:09 pm#208092

Participant

Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 09 2010,05:13)

All, I posted this a while back,

“The light shines in the darkness, the darkness has not overcome it.” 　

“For at one time you were darkness, now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light.”

Maybe the light is love and the dark is hate and hate has never overcome love ? What are the commandments – to love God and love neighbour and in that it is all summed up,

Hi Shimmer,

You give so many truths. Thanks for the witness.

1Jo 1:5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.

2Cor 4:4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

2 Cor 4:6 For God, who said, “Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

Jhn 8:12 Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, “I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.”

Jhn 9:5 “While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world.”

Happy Sunday!

The Professor

August 8, 2010 at 4:17 pm#208112

Blocked

Hi Kathi,

I think the revelation you had 16 years ago is profound. God said “Let there be light” and it was Jesus. Then he said, “You are my Son, this day (time period) I have begotten you”.

And from that moment (or “day”), Jesus was both God's Only Begotten Son and the Light of God's creations that were soon to follow.

Bravo! I didn't read your older post, but I am happy for you that you found support for your belief from both Tertullian and myself. On the surface, it seems brilliant!

peace and love,
mike

August 8, 2010 at 4:42 pm#208114

Blocked

Oops, I just found a flaw. God created the heavens and the earth through His Son, and according to Genesis 1, the heavens and the earth were existent when God said, “Let there be light”.

Hmmm……

August 8, 2010 at 9:44 pm#208127

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2010,11:42)

Oops, I just found a flaw. God created the heavens and the earth through His Son, and according to Genesis 1, the heavens and the earth were existent when God said, “Let there be light”.

Hmmm……

Hi Mike,
You are like a cup of water to a thirsty soul with your posts here and on the Christian Behavior thread. I needed a drink, thanks for stepping up! I am refreshed

Regarding your 'flaw,' that is a good question but one that I can certainly answer. Let's look at John 1:1-3

John 1:1-3
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
NASU

Let's look at the phrase 'came into being' or has come into being.'

The Greek word for 'being' is 'Ginomai' Strong's 1096
Definition

to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen
of events
to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage
of men appearing in public
to be made, finished
of miracles, to be performed, wrought
to become, be made
Translated Words
KJV (630) – God forbid + (3361), 15; arise, 13; be, 255; be done, 63; be fulfilled, 3; be made, 69; be married to, 3; be preferred, 3; become, 47; come, 52; come to pass, 82; done, 2; have, 5; misc, 4; not tr, 14;
NAS (487) – accomplished, 1; appeared, 3; arise, 1; arises, 2; arose, 6; arrived, 3; became, 53; become, 83; becomes, 8; becoming, 2; been, 12; been brought, 1; been done, 1; been made, 2; been…came, 1; began, 1; behaved, 1; being, 2; being carried, 1; being done, 2; being made, 2; born, 5; breaking, 1; came, 45; came into being, 2; came to pass, 2; come, 16; come into being, 1; comes, 1; comes to pass, 1; coming, 1; dawn, 1; decided, 1; developing, 1; done, 20; drawing, 1; during, 1; elapsed, 1; existed, 1; falling, 1; feeling, 1; fell, 6; finished, 1; followed, 1; formed, 3; found, 2; get, 4; give, 1; got, 1; granted, 1; grown, 1; had, 1; happen, 6; happened, 46; happening, 5; happens, 3; has, 3; join, 1; joined, 3; made, 15; occur, 3; occurred, 18; performed, 4; prove, 7; proved, 6; proving, 1; put, 1; reached, 2; realized, 1; results, 2; show, 1; spent, 1; split, 1; spoken, 1; starting, 1; take place, 16; taken, 2; taken place, 5; takes place, 1; taking place, 3; there arose, 1; thundered, 1; took place, 7; turned, 1; turns, 3; would, 1;

As you can tell, to be made finished is one of the definitions.

Now let's see how the heavens and the earth were not yet finished until after day one when Light came.

Gen 1:1-10
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
6 Then God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
7 God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so.
8 God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
9 Then God said, “Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so.
10 God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good.
NASU

We see that heaven was given the name 'heaven' after the waters were separated on day two. We also see that earth was given its name after the seas were gathered together and dry land appeared and then called 'earth' on day three. Both are obviously not yet made finished until AFTER day one.

Thanks so much for considering this Mike, that means a lot to me.

Kathi

August 8, 2010 at 9:54 pm#208129

SimplyForgiven

Participant

To add Kathi,
did you know that Hebrews write in a certain way?
for example they give you the big picture first and than the details.
For example in chapter one it says God created man on the 6th day male and female
YET on the second chapter it detail how God created adam, and how eve came from adam.

This happens many times within the scriptures.

Hebrews always give the POINT first, and than the details.

just like GENESIS 1, which tells God created the earth and heaven,
and the rest give the DETAILS of that account.

Does that make any sense?

August 8, 2010 at 9:57 pm#208131

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2010,11:17)

Hi Kathi,

I think the revelation you had 16 years ago is profound. God said “Let there be light” and it was Jesus. Then he said, “You are my Son, this day (time period) I have begotten you”.

And from that moment (or “day”), Jesus was both God's Only Begotten Son and the Light of God's creations that were soon to follow.

Bravo! I didn't read your older post, but I am happy for you that you found support for your belief from both Tertullian and myself. On the surface, it seems brilliant!

peace and love,
mike

Hi Mike,
Yes, I agree…it was/is profound and did not come from my 'puny little brain' as someone so lovingly put it.

If you think about it, if the Son is how God chose to manifest Himself to us, through His very own offspring, one that is just like Him yet not Him; why would God manifest Him long before there was someone and something to manifest Him to.

I am always testing the thought in the back of my mind and with what Tertullian said, I am greatly encouraged at a time after a very discouraging week. God is so good! He loves us and Jesus loves us and I am happy

August 8, 2010 at 10:01 pm#208132