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Quote (david @ Nov. 10 2007,17:15) Note that Matthew 24:29-31 foretells that
(1) the Son of man comes,
(2) this coming will be with great glory,
(3) the angels will be with him, and
(4) all the tribes of the earth will see him.Jesus repeats these elements in the parable of the sheep and the goats. (Matthew 25:31-46)
Hence, we can conclude that this parable deals with the time, after the opening outbreak of tribulation, when Jesus will come with his angels and sit down on his throne to judge. (John 5:22; Acts 17:31; compare 1 Kings 7:7; Daniel 7:10, 13, 14, 22, 26; Matthew 19:28.)
Earlier, Jesus had indicated that after the city was devastated, he would come in Jehovah’s name. (Matthew 23:38, 39; 24:2) He then made this clearer in his prophecy uttered on the Mount of Olives. Having mentioned the coming “great tribulation,” he said that afterward false Christs would appear, and Jerusalem would be trampled on by the nations for an extended period. (Matthew 24:21, 23-28; Luke 21:24) Could it be that another, a greater, fulfillment was to come? The facts answer yes. When we compare Revelation 6:2-8 (written after the tribulation on Jerusalem in 70 C.E.) with Matthew 24:6-8 and Luke 21:10, 11, we see that warfare, food shortages, and plague on a greater scale lay ahead.
And what did 24:33 say?Mat 24:33 [HNV] Even so you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Who is 'you'? His apostles. Jesus still means that they will see all of these things. Therefore Jesus is telling them that all of these things will happen in their lifetime. All of them are dead. Failed prophecy and yet we still have not seen this things.
Quote (942767 @ Nov. 10 2007,17:02) Hi Towshab: You say:
Quote How does that hold up in light of Ez 37:26 where it says that the temple will stand forever more? Or this verse Eze 37:28 Then the nations will know that I am the LORD who sanctifies Israel, when my sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.”
I really think you need to reread Ezekiel 37-48 and realize this is all about the house of Israel and NOT a spiritual Israel. Again do not forget this verse either
I've already given you my understanding on this. Body of Christ is God's temple. The body that we have now is a temporary tabernacle for the Spirit of God if so the the Spirit of God dwells within a person. The Spiritual body that the Nation of Israel who were striving to obey God under the OT and those who are born again Christians will receive at the coming of the Lord for the Body of Christ which is the church.[/quote]
How does the 'body of Christ' match the temple plans of Ez 40-48?
Quote Then you say: Quote Zec 8:23 Thus says the LORD of hosts: In those days ten men from the nations of every tongue shall take hold of the robe of a Jew, saying, 'Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.' Quote Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly *; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.There are Jews who are born-again Christians.
Do you follow Torah? If not how can you say you are a Jew, spiritual or other wise? Most of Christianity hasn't a clue about Torah. They even argue over the 'ten commandments'!
Quote Then you say: Yes let me reemphasize this verse
Joe 2:32 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the LORD has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the LORD calls.
Note here that G-d through Joel could have said 'everyone who calls on the name of My coming Moshiach' or 'everyone who calls on the name of My son' but He didn't. We will call on the name of YHVH.
Praise YHVH G-d!
The name Jesus means “Jehovah is salvation”, and so, calling on the name of Jesus is calling on the name of the LORD.
Yes Praise YHVH for sending us His Son
Haha, no. Jesus is not 'Jehovah'. If you call on Jesus you are calling on a man, Jesus. Not G-d.Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 11 2007,12:24) Quote (942767 @ Nov. 10 2007,17:02) Hi Towshab: You say:
Quote How does that hold up in light of Ez 37:26 where it says that the temple will stand forever more? Or this verse Eze 37:28 Then the nations will know that I am the LORD who sanctifies Israel, when my sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.”
I really think you need to reread Ezekiel 37-48 and realize this is all about the house of Israel and NOT a spiritual Israel. Again do not forget this verse either
I've already given you my understanding on this. Body of Christ is God's temple. The body that we have now is a temporary tabernacle for the Spirit of God if so the the Spirit of God dwells within a person. The Spiritual body that the Nation of Israel who were striving to obey God under the OT and those who are born again Christians will receive at the coming of the Lord for the Body of Christ which is the church.
How does the 'body of Christ' match the temple plans of Ez 40-48?
Quote Then you say: Quote Zec 8:23 Thus says the LORD of hosts: In those days ten men from the nations of every tongue shall take hold of the robe of a Jew, saying, 'Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.' Quote Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly *; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.There are Jews who are born-again Christians.
Do you follow Torah? If not how can you say you are a Jew, spiritual or other wise? Most of Christianity hasn't a clue about Torah. They even argue over the 'ten commandments'!
Quote Then you say: Quote Yes let me reemphasize this verse Joe 2:32 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the LORD has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the LORD calls.
Note here that G-d through Joel could have said 'everyone who calls on the name of My coming Moshiach' or 'everyone who calls on the name of My son' but He didn't. We will call on the name of YHVH.
Praise YHVH G-d!
The name Jesus means “Jehovah is salvation”, and so, calling on the name of Jesus is calling on the name of the LORD.
Yes Praise YHVH for sending us His Son
Haha, no. Jesus is not 'Jehovah'. If you call on Jesus you are calling on a man, Jesus. Not G-d.
Hi Towshab:I never said that Jesus is God. He is God's Son and His Christ. Blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD!
Jesus is God's gift of love to humanity.
Quote 9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 1 John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Quote John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Quote 1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. And the following is just a little song of gratitude that is in my heart:
And I'm forever grateful(Father) to you, and I'm forever grateful for the cross. I'm forever grateful to you. That you came to seek and save the Lost.
Hi 94,
Can you show me Jesus' gospel using only the synoptics, Matthew Mark Luke? No other books of the GT just those please.
Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 11 2007,13:31) Hi 94, Can you show me Jesus' gospel using only the synoptics, Matthew Mark Luke? No other books of the GT just those please.
Hi Towshab:Why do you want to restrict me to the synoptics?
Quote (942767 @ Nov. 10 2007,20:56) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 11 2007,13:31) Hi 94, Can you show me Jesus' gospel using only the synoptics, Matthew Mark Luke? No other books of the GT just those please.
Hi Towshab:Why do you want to restrict me to the synoptics?
Because in the Synoptics Jesus said this==================================
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
==================================I want you to see that the message Jesus taught, the gospel, was different in the synoptics than it was in Paul and John's writings. I want you to see what that particular gospel was in the synoptics. I want you to see what Paul means when he says
==================================
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
Hi Towshab:
The entire bible from Genesis to the book of Revelation is important to understanding God' plan for the salvation of His Children from the consequence of sin. Therefore, I will not be restricted to the synoptics when I share the gospel (good news).
There is information vital to that understanding in each and every book, including the gospels of Matthew, Luke and Mark, and the epistles in the NT.
You have shown that there are errors in the gospels and since God does not make mistakes, the errors have been made by man. Some of these are obviously errors which could be made in transcribing what an original document has stated. Also, there appears that there have been some scriptures added to try to justify the “trinity doctrine”. But the criticism by you of Jesus are misunderstandings of what he has said or why he has said or done something. God said he was not guilty by raising again from the dead, and if God said he is not guilty then that is good enough for me. I may have to pray and ask God for why he said or did something if I don't understand, but I know that there has to be a reason.
I thank you for pointing out the errors in the gospels but it does not change what I know to be the truth through many personal experiences, and through the scriptures.
It is my responsibility to share the gospel with whomever will hear and I have shared what I know to be the truth with you out of my love for you. Whether or not God has seen that you will have believed is known to him from the beginning. I am praying for you.
Praise God for HIs love and His Mercy
Here is an ever so subtle form of anti-semitism that is prevalent on the GT (Greek Text). Who was the person to betray Jesus, the one apostle that everyone wants to despise? Judas Iscariot. Well the issue with this is the name and how it gives a very subtle but definite anti-Jewish feeling.
The word ‘Jew’ comes from the name ‘Judah’. Judaism is simply ‘Judah-ism’. While not technically accurate the word title ‘Jew’ has come to imply all physical and spiritual descendents of Jacob and ‘Judaism’ is the religion many of those same people practice.
Now think of the most despised apostle, Judas. Judas, Judah, Judaism. Judas was used to represent the faith of Judaism. In Greek, Judas is ‘Ioudas’. Now look forward in your GT to Heb 8:8
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
What is the Greek word for Judah here? ‘Ioudas’!!! So just like the Gospels tried to present, Judas-ism was an evil force opposed to Jesus and his ministry! And who wanted to sell Joseph to the Midianites? Judah! So move forward in time and Judah (Judas, ‘Ioudas’) is the one who again sells his ‘brother’ for silver!
Down with the Jews! Down with Judas-ism!
Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 13 2007,11:35) Here is an ever so subtle form of anti-semitism that is prevalent on the GT (Greek Text). Who was the person to betray Jesus, the one apostle that everyone wants to despise? Judas Iscariot. Well the issue with this is the name and how it gives a very subtle but definite anti-Jewish feeling. The word ‘Jew’ comes from the name ‘Judah’. Judaism is simply ‘Judah-ism’. While not technically accurate the word title ‘Jew’ has come to imply all physical and spiritual descendents of Jacob and ‘Judaism’ is the religion many of those same people practice.
Now think of the most despised apostle, Judas. Judas, Judah, Judaism. Judas was used to represent the faith of Judaism. In Greek, Judas is ‘Ioudas’. Now look forward in your GT to Heb 8:8
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
What is the Greek word for Judah here? ‘Ioudas’!!! So just like the Gospels tried to present, Judas-ism was an evil force opposed to Jesus and his ministry! And who wanted to sell Joseph to the Midianites? Judah! So move forward in time and Judah (Judas, ‘Ioudas’) is the one who again sells his ‘brother’ for silver!
Down with the Jews! Down with Judas-ism!
Jesus was a Jew and of the tribe of Judah.Quote (942767 @ Nov. 12 2007,19:50) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 13 2007,11:35) Here is an ever so subtle form of anti-semitism that is prevalent on the GT (Greek Text). Who was the person to betray Jesus, the one apostle that everyone wants to despise? Judas Iscariot. Well the issue with this is the name and how it gives a very subtle but definite anti-Jewish feeling. The word ‘Jew’ comes from the name ‘Judah’. Judaism is simply ‘Judah-ism’. While not technically accurate the word title ‘Jew’ has come to imply all physical and spiritual descendents of Jacob and ‘Judaism’ is the religion many of those same people practice.
Now think of the most despised apostle, Judas. Judas, Judah, Judaism. Judas was used to represent the faith of Judaism. In Greek, Judas is ‘Ioudas’. Now look forward in your GT to Heb 8:8
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
What is the Greek word for Judah here? ‘Ioudas’!!! So just like the Gospels tried to present, Judas-ism was an evil force opposed to Jesus and his ministry! And who wanted to sell Joseph to the Midianites? Judah! So move forward in time and Judah (Judas, ‘Ioudas’) is the one who again sells his ‘brother’ for silver!
Down with the Jews! Down with Judas-ism!
Jesus was a Jew and of the tribe of Judah.
Yes but he was betrayed by the 'consummate Jew'. All sorts of imagery about Jews came from Judas since that time you know. One that Jews were greedy spend thrifts like Judas but seen as 'thieves'.Joh 12:4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him,
Joh 12:5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?And of course the most anti-semitic gospel of all puts the name of Judas to this while the others did not. Remember 'Judas-ism' = 'Judaism' = 'Jews' for thousands of years after.
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Nov. 12 2007,15:50) Towshab; Let me ask you a few questions:
From reading your posts, it is apparent that you believe that Jesus Christ existed on the earth at the time the bible says he lived on earth.
Why do you suppose they crucified Jesus?
Because he preached against Rome. He was among many insurrectionists. The penalty for insurrection was crucifixion.
Quote How is it coincidental that they crucified him during the passover? Other than the Christian bible and the fact that the synoptics and John do not agree what day he was crucified I cannot say he really was.
Quote Is is also coincidental thay the Holy Spirit was poured out upon the Jews who believed on the Day of Pentecost? Almost as coincidental as any work of fiction would have it. You can have anything happen on any day you want if you already telling lies.
Quote Why did the Jews continue to persecute those who preached in the name of Jesus? Take Care
Steven
Can you show me they did outside of the Christian bible? The Jews likely did not even care about Christians.
Tow said,
“Haha, no. Jesus is not 'Jehovah'. If you call on Jesus you are calling on a man, Jesus. Not G-d.”Tow,
I don't read much of your garbage, but this caught my attention. And yes, Y'shua means the Salvation of Yah in Hebrew. He came in His Father's Name, and you do not receive Him.
If another comes in his own name, him you will receive!94bishop,
I am happy you are doing this work, I personally do not have the patients for Tow. He went from not having the Spirit in Him, because of the poluted traditions of men, to not having the Spirit of truth in him, because of the traditions of men.Both, Christianity and Phariseeism (Orthodox Judaisim) are to blame for twisting His pure Word. You see Tow is using G-d, after the traditions of the Pharisees, while Christian's say LORD in the same way, that also came from the Pharisees.
Breaking the first, second, third, fifth, seventh, eighth, ninth, and tenth commandments.
1) Following the traditions of men and not YHWH.
2) Using His Name in vain. Causing His Name to have lost it's true meaning.
3) Idolatry, making His Name into nothing more than a man-made idol. Separating His people from Him, by making man their god and following man's ways.
5)Outright disrespect for our Father in heaven.
7) Worshiping man and not YHWH is spiritual adultry.
8) Stealing His Way and thinking men can change it. (When we borrow something we should return it the way we got it.)
9) Since YHWH is here with us He is our neighbor.
10) Wanting to have His authority, and believing man can change any part of it.Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 13 2007,21:51) Quote (942767 @ Nov. 12 2007,19:50) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 13 2007,11:35) Here is an ever so subtle form of anti-semitism that is prevalent on the GT (Greek Text). Who was the person to betray Jesus, the one apostle that everyone wants to despise? Judas Iscariot. Well the issue with this is the name and how it gives a very subtle but definite anti-Jewish feeling. The word ‘Jew’ comes from the name ‘Judah’. Judaism is simply ‘Judah-ism’. While not technically accurate the word title ‘Jew’ has come to imply all physical and spiritual descendents of Jacob and ‘Judaism’ is the religion many of those same people practice.
Now think of the most despised apostle, Judas. Judas, Judah, Judaism. Judas was used to represent the faith of Judaism. In Greek, Judas is ‘Ioudas’. Now look forward in your GT to Heb 8:8
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
What is the Greek word for Judah here? ‘Ioudas’!!! So just like the Gospels tried to present, Judas-ism was an evil force opposed to Jesus and his ministry! And who wanted to sell Joseph to the Midianites? Judah! So move forward in time and Judah (Judas, ‘Ioudas’) is the one who again sells his ‘brother’ for silver!
Down with the Jews! Down with Judas-ism!
Jesus was a Jew and of the tribe of Judah.
Yes but he was betrayed by the 'consummate Jew'. All sorts of imagery about Jews came from Judas since that time you know. One that Jews were greedy spend thrifts like Judas but seen as 'thieves'.Joh 12:4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him,
Joh 12:5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?And of course the most anti-semitic gospel of all puts the name of Judas to this while the others did not. Remember 'Judas-ism' = 'Judaism' = 'Jews' for thousands of years after.
Hi Towshab:God is not a respecter of persons. Every man will be judged according to his works.
The Commission to Christians is to go into all of the world and share the gospel with every creature (that is if they want to hear).
Jews are being indoctrinated not to listen to evangelicals, and so, if they do not want to hear, whose fault is that?
Quote Mt 23:13
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.Quote .John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Praise God for His Love and His Mercy
Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 13 2007,11:06) Tow said,
“Haha, no. Jesus is not 'Jehovah'. If you call on Jesus you are calling on a man, Jesus. Not G-d.”Tow,
I don't read much of your garbage, but this caught my attention. And yes, Y'shua means the Salvation of Yah in Hebrew. He came in His Father's Name, and you do not receive Him.
If another comes in his own name, him you will receive!
If you are so up on Jewish scripture please point me to the passage that we must believe on the Messiah in the Tanakh. The end times Moshiach won't need to be 'accepted' because all will know who he is. When you great great grandmother knocks on your door and we have world peace you'll know he is here
.Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 13 2007,11:28) 94bishop,
I am happy you are doing this work, I personally do not have the patients for Tow. He went from not having the Spirit in Him, because of the poluted traditions of men, to not having the Spirit of truth in him, because of the traditions of men.And just like the opinion of the majority of Christians, you DO have the spirit of truth correct? Welcome to the club of billions who all have the 'truth' in many different forms.
Quote Both, Christianity and Phariseeism (Orthodox Judaisim) are to blame for twisting His pure Word. You see Tow is using G-d, after the traditions of the Pharisees, while Christian's say LORD in the same way, that also came from the Pharisees. You wouldn't know a Pharisee if he bit you on the nose. Your idea about Pharisees comes from your Christian bible.
Quote Breaking the first, second, third, fifth, seventh, eighth, ninth, and tenth commandments. 1) Following the traditions of men and not YHWH.
Where is that in the 'ten commandments'? This certainly has nothing about putting other gods before YHVH like Christians put Jesus before YHVH. Most Christians don't even know who YHVH is!
Quote 2) Using His Name in vain. Causing His Name to have lost it's true meaning. How long have you been studying scripture? A month, two maybe? Writing YHVH or G-d or Hashem is not in any way taking His name in vain.
Quote 3) Idolatry, making His Name into nothing more than a man-made idol. Separating His people from Him, by making man their god and following man's ways. A name becomes an idol? Like the name 'Jesus'? That's an idol. I know of no person that worships a name. But maybe you do.
Quote 5)Outright disrespect for our Father in heaven. If you say so. Most Jews would disagree with you but what can they say? After all, you have the 'truth'. Let us bow at the altar of Laurel, the 'mistress of all truth'.
Quote 7) Worshiping man and not YHWH is spiritual adultry. Isn't that what Christianity is guilty of? I think you're looking at the wrong faith.
Quote 8) Stealing His Way and thinking men can change it. (When we borrow something we should return it the way we got it.) Wha? You're really reaching here. Can I have some of what you are drinking?
Quote 9) Since YHWH is here with us He is our neighbor. And?
Quote 10) Wanting to have His authority, and believing man can change any part of it.
AKA 'The New Testament'. You called it sister!Um, the 10th statement covers not coveting your neighbor's wife. What bible are you using anyway?
Interesting!
(1) Jesus said that Satan was the father of lies
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
(2) Paul implied that Satan was the god of this world
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
(3) Jesus lied
Joh 7:8 Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come.
Joh 7:9 When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee.
Joh 7:10 But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.(4) Jesus is the 'son of god'
Mar 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
(5) Jesus and Lucifer are called the 'morning star' (Is 14:12, Rev 22:16)
(6) Jesus is Lucifer, the son of Satan!
Moved from the 'trinity' thread.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 11 2007,20:15) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 12 2007,02:15) I would put forward that the first distortion of the true Jesus is your very own bible. Virgin birth, god-man incarnate, drinking blood, sacrificing life for sins of all his followers, death-rebirth, etc. are all borrowed from a plethora of other mythologies and not a single one of these ideals is backed up by the Tanakh. The message of Jesus is clouded by all of this mythology thrown in.
You are entitled to your opinion and others equally argue that the Tanakh is also a distortion using the same argument.Look at the Babylon Creation Myth or the Babylonian flood myth or the Sumerian flood stories for example. Many say that the Torah borrowed these stories from there.
Your stance should also equally apply to the Torah if you are to be fair given your judgement.
If you are arguing myths, then that road leads all the way to what I said above.
So both Judaism and Christianity are based on mythology? Then by extension you are saying that the Jewish scriptures are myths and Christianity takes Jewish myths and expands them with various other myths? So both are false? Why believe anymore then?
Moved from the trinity thread
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Quote (t8 @ Nov. 12 2007,18:55) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 12 2007,23:47) Perhaps they were borrowed. Who knows? But the Jewish scripture wasn't written based on another religions bible.
Well that is debatable according to some.Although I may not agree with them, you have shown a pattern of thinking that you should if you are being fair to yourself extend it to your own philosophy.
Here is the Babylonian Deluge Tablet, which talks of an ancient flood.
Sorry can't read it. Got a Rosetta Stone?
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