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Quote (david @ Nov. 02 2007,21:33) Quote Perhaps but show me in Jewish scripture where anyone was falsely cut off.
True, Christ was exceptional. No argument there.
That was you lamest answer yet. Try harder.Quote (david @ Nov. 03 2007,14:30) The fact that you refuse to answer the obvious, makes me think you actually do understand your error and don't want to discuss this any longer.
Yup!He understands his error alright, but I believe that is why he is here……..to cast his net of doubt and deception. Of course this is my opinon, but the fruit always shows off what type of tree it comes from – doesn't it?
Quote (david @ Nov. 02 2007,21:36) Quote Yes it is but no name is given. It is the events that matter. The temple is destroyed as is the holy city, Jerusalem. Do you not find that significant? It was the end of the second temple. The third temple will be built when the real Moshiach comes. Wouldn't we have to know the identity of this one?
24 “There are seventy weeks that have been determined upon your people and upon your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, and to finish off sin, and to make atonement for error, and to bring in righteousness for times indefinite, and to imprint a seal upon vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. 25 And you should know and have the insight [that] from the going forth of [the] word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Mes·si′ah [the] Leader, there will be seven weeks, also sixty-two weeks. She will return and be actually rebuilt, with a public square and moat, but in the straits of the times.
26 “And after the sixty-two weeks Mes·si′ah will be cut off, with nothing for himself.
This particular messiah is messiah the “leader.” Yet, you don't know who it is?
King Cyrus.Isa 45:1 Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
Quote If i am to believe the Christian bible I must do so at face value not the apologetic insertions of someone who must believe lest they burn in the lake of fire. You are mixing up dante's mythology of the devil/demons/lake of fire with what the Bible actually says.
Fire is a symbol of eternal destruction, as every furnace in the world will attest to.Quote If i am to believe the Christian bible I must do so at face value
All I expect from you is to understand what contradictions truly are. And yes, look for them. But first, understand what they are. And look at the Bible openly, not with a goal of finding something that isn't there.Quote You insert, I explain. Thus you are extra-biblical and I am biblical.
Ok, well instead of inserting, I'll explain:
If you have 5 people involved in an event, and you have 4 people tell the story of that event, chances are pretty good one or two of them will only include the relevant people.
This is the way it is done, all the time, everywhere. And it is not a contradiction when one chooses to include the names of all the people and one does not.
A contradiction would be if one account said: “Ted picked up the stone.” and the other account said: “Susan picked up the stone.”Quote I was unable to show you anything because you were determined not to see.
I think my extreme frustration over your not understanding what contradictions are is what has caused me to be less than willing to understand anything you say.Please show me somehow that you have a grasp of what that word means.
Quote King Cyrus. Isa 45:1 Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
And how does cyrus line up with the prophecy
Quote Quote (david @ Nov. 02 2007,21:33)
Quote
Perhaps but show me in Jewish scripture where anyone was falsely cut off.True, Christ was exceptional. No argument there.
That was you lamest answer yet. Try harder.
I don't remember me or anyone ever asserting that the events surrounding Jesus life were ordinary.
To cut off often means to cut off in death. That was my point. And true, there may not be any other references where a Jewish person was falsely cut off in death or accused falsely, but I have not ever said that Christ's life wasn't an exception to the norm. As I stated, his life was exceptional.Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 02 2007,21:46) Quote (david @ Nov. 03 2007,14:30) The fact that you refuse to answer the obvious, makes me think you actually do understand your error and don't want to discuss this any longer.
Yup!He understands his error alright, but I believe that is why he is here……..to cast his net of doubt and deception. Of course this is my opinon, but the fruit always shows off what type of tree it comes from – doesn't it?
No I understand the error of the Christian bible. I have presented the errors and Christians here must make up stories and make insertions so that they won't have an 'swiss cheese' bible. You people have to add to your scripture to make up for the parts that are missing. Why not just rewrite them every several years like the Muslims do? Or the Mormons?“God created Mormons so Christians could know how Jewish people feel”
Quote (david @ Nov. 02 2007,21:48) Quote If i am to believe the Christian bible I must do so at face value not the apologetic insertions of someone who must believe lest they burn in the lake of fire. You are mixing up dante's mythology of the devil/demons/lake of fire with what the Bible actually says.
Fire is a symbol of eternal destruction, as every furnace in the world will attest to.Quote If i am to believe the Christian bible I must do so at face value
All I expect from you is to understand what contradictions truly are. And yes, look for them. But first, understand what they are. And look at the Bible openly, not with a goal of finding something that isn't there.Quote You insert, I explain. Thus you are extra-biblical and I am biblical.
Ok, well instead of inserting, I'll explain:
If you have 5 people involved in an event, and you have 4 people tell the story of that event, chances are pretty good one or two of them will only include the relevant people.
This is the way it is done, all the time, everywhere. And it is not a contradiction when one chooses to include the names of all the people and one does not.
A contradiction would be if one account said: “Ted picked up the stone.” and the other account said: “Susan picked up the stone.”Quote I was unable to show you anything because you were determined not to see.
I think my extreme frustration over your not understanding what contradictions are is what has caused me to be less than willing to understand anything you say.Please show me somehow that you have a grasp of what that word means.
I have but it seems you do not know. in you mind contradiction means “Bob drove the car” versus “Fred swam in an ocean full of sharks”.You “have” demonstrated that you have some incling of what the word “contradiction” means.
Please explain where.
I'll give you some time. I'm going to go look at the other threads for a while.
david
Quote (david @ Nov. 02 2007,21:49) Quote King Cyrus. Isa 45:1 Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
And how does cyrus line up with the prophecy
Look up the Hebrew word 'dabar' and you will have at least some of you answer. After all, the majority of Christian bibles mistranslate it in Daniel 9:25 to purposely manipulate the prophecy to their own goals: Jesus. but there ARE some honest Christian translations that say 'word' for 'dabar'. From this you would realize that Artaxerxes had nothing to do with 'dabar'.Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 03 2007,14:55) I have but it seems you do not know. in you mind contradiction means “Bob drove the car” versus “Fred swam in an ocean full of sharks”.
Towshab, do you agree that this is a good definition for the term 'contradiction'?:“Assertion of the contrary or opposite; denial.”
If so, can you find one of these in the NT?
Quote (david @ Nov. 02 2007,21:52) Quote Quote (david @ Nov. 02 2007,21:33)
Quote
Perhaps but show me in Jewish scripture where anyone was falsely cut off.True, Christ was exceptional. No argument there.
That was you lamest answer yet. Try harder.
I don't remember me or anyone ever asserting that the events surrounding Jesus life were ordinary.
To cut off often means to cut off in death. That was my point. And true, there may not be any other references where a Jewish person was falsely cut off in death or accused falsely, but I have not ever said that Christ's life wasn't an exception to the norm. As I stated, his life was exceptional.
OK, now show me why there were at least 5 weeks (35 years) from Jesus' death until the rest of the fulfillment of Dan 9:26. There is no room for that because Dan 9:26 show that these two events will happen at the same time. The temple was destroyed in 70 CE and Jesus died 30-3 CE. Plonk.Quote (Is 1:18 @ Nov. 02 2007,22:05) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 03 2007,14:55) I have but it seems you do not know. in you mind contradiction means “Bob drove the car” versus “Fred swam in an ocean full of sharks”.
Towshab, do you agree that this is a good definition for the term 'contradiction'?:“Assertion of the contrary or opposite; denial.”
If so, can you find one of these in the NT?
Mr. 1:18,
I cannot show the 100s of contradictions right now but I will resume in a moment of silence
. Look for new posts in the Matthew thread soon.Quote (david @ Nov. 02 2007,22:01) You “have” demonstrated that you have some incling of what the word “contradiction” means. Please explain where.
I'll give you some time. I'm going to go look at the other threads for a while.
david
What other threads? People on here (besides you) are scared to engage me because they are afraid that I might actually show them that the Christian bible should be sitting in the fiction section at the local book store.The two “masked” men……
How's it going Isaiah? Is the baby sleeping? I've been doing a lot of reading in the old threads – back when you and Nick first came here to HN. Good stuff!
Hey Mandy,
Yeah, baby is sleeping through toll 4ish now, it's progress. How's the house renovations going? The early exchanges in some of the threads are interesting eh? I remember reading the whole Trinity thread back when it was only 60-70 pages long (okay, I skim read a lot of it). I found it quite enlightening. Most of the arguments have been recycled half a dozen times or more by various new members. People think they are bring new irrefutable points to bear but the truth is these discussions have been going on for centuries.Quote (Is 1:18 @ Nov. 02 2007,22:11) Only one, that is consistent with that definition, will do Towshab…. How about just one?
I'll have to admit that I'd have to look at this because the 100s (perhaps 1000s) of conflicts may fall in a line of serious conflicts rather than blatant contradictions. But if you need such than that tells me you are willing to accept the many many flaws of the Christian bible because they do not DIRECTLY contradict the Tanakh. But I will continue.I will show this though.
Lev 7:26 Moreover ye shall eat no manner of blood, whether it be of fowl or of beast, in any of your dwellings.
Lev 17:12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.
Lev 17:14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.
Deu 12:16 Only ye shall not eat the blood; ye shall pour it upon the earth as water.
Deu 15:23 Only thou shalt not eat the blood thereof; thou shalt pour it upon the ground as water.
1Sa 14:33 Then they told Saul, saying, Behold, the people sin against the LORD, in that they eat with the blood. And he said, Ye have transgressed: roll a great stone unto me this day.
It is quite obvious that ingesting blood is in opposition to G-d Almighty. So what does Jesus tell you to do?
Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Joh 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.I've presented this in several places and no Christian has been able to tell me why Jesus blatantly contradicts G-d's Tanakh. Maybe you can give it a go?
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Nov. 02 2007,22:26) Ummm Towshab, I believe Yeshua was speaking metaphorically…. 
Unbelievable.
So he was metaphorically disobeying his (supposed) own father? So much for honoring father and mother. Sorry but that doesn;t cut the mustard. The non-ignorant Hebrews in his midst showed him what they thought of his 'metaphoric' drinking of blood:Joh 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
These people at least displayed their knowlede of G-d's Tanakh.
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