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Quote (Pastry @ April 01 2012,15:22) Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2012,07:44) Quote (Pastry @ April 01 2012,14:37) Pierre, I don get what you mean by his 7 th day of rest when Jesus was created?
The name Jesus was given to The Word of God when He became flesh by Mary, that was not on the 7th day of creation….
Peace and Love Irene
Hi Irenehow are you I hope all is well with you and yours close ones ,
what I was saying to Kerwin is he said that Jesus was created in Mary ,so if that is true then He made God a liar because God says that he rested on the 7 th day right
Pierre! Sorry but that is not what you are saying in the previous post……Yes God rested on the 7th day….but Jesus was not created then, that is what you were stating….
Pierre humble yourself when someone points out that you are wrongly stated something….Peace and Love Irene
IreneQuote terraricca Group: Regular Members
Posts: 12625
Joined: Oct. 2009
Posted: April 01 2012,14:25
Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2012,00:47)
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2012,09:20)
Toby,Your understanding is based upon the fact that we as humans don't know all things. For example, we don't KNOW how God transformed Jesus to become born of Mary. But us not knowing this or that specific detail is not really a good offense for someone claiming with certainty something that isn't even hinted at in scripture.
One can't reasonably say, “I don't know what happened to his spiritual body, therefore he must not have had one to begin with.”
I hope you can see this.
peace,
mikeMike,
Jesus was created from a part of Mary thus fulfilling the promise that the Messiah would be a descendant of David.
K
why would you make God a liar
or his the 7 th day of rest of God over when Jesus was “”created “”? and what is it that Mary contribute ? the flesh ?? it stand for nothing,
you are defending you own illusions
————–
Pierreit refers to the comment of Kerwin “the Jesus is created in Mary “”
so what was wrong with what I said
?Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2012,00:29) Toby, Either show a scripture that says spirit beings such as angels don't have bodies, or give it up. Your smack talk only amuses you (and perhaps Gene and Shimmer).
Even the source you yourself quoted yesterday agrees that the raised dead will dwell in heaven WITH BODIES, like the body Jesus now dwells in heaven with.
The bodies of angels in heaven are described many times in scripture, yet you've taken it upon yourself to decide that those descriptions are symbolic.
You are entitled to your opinion, Toby. But it seems to be a lonely one, judging from the comments of the others here, and even your own source from yesterday.
Mikeboll,You said:
Quote Toby, Either show a scripture that says spirit beings such as angels don't have bodies, or give it up. Your smack talk only amuses you (and perhaps Gene and Shimmer).
Mikeboll, is this all you have?
Prove that Water is NOT WET!
Prove that Water can be DRUNK!
It is quite clear you have locked yourself in a box with the key thrown away and you are now just yelling through the bars! Everything you ask for has been answered to you many times over – your only hope (and fat chance of that – now you profess that Jesus was in a Spiritual Body when he came as man and therefore was not dead when he was on the cross and in the grave – these are conclusions from YOUR false ideology!) is to make repeated requests for 'proof of a negative'How can you 'Prove that 'Black' is not 'White'? Ah, I know: the definition of 'White' says 'Opposite of Black' and the definition of 'Black' says 'Opposite of White'.
So also, proof that 'Spirit is not in a body in Heaven': Spirit is in the Spirit Realm: Flesh (a Body) is in the Physical realm.
Water does not need a body when it is in the sea (the realm of water) but it needs to be in a vessel (a body – a container) when it is NOT in the sea (the realm of the land).
Quote Even the source you yourself quoted yesterday agrees that the raised dead will dwell in heaven WITH BODIES, like the body Jesus now dwells in heaven with. This is very desperate of you. The source explains the meaning but you appear selective in your choice of reading – taking things out of context is your speciality.
According to your rendering, Jesus is even now in two Spiritual Bodies – can you explain how the dead will emulate the two Spiritual Bodies of Jesus?
Quote The bodies of angels in heaven are described many times in scripture, yet you've taken it upon yourself to decide that those descriptions are symbolic. Mike, you boast eternally of this point but when asked to justify it you run a mile. Scriptures says that those raised from the dead will have bodies like Jesus has in Heaven right NOW as a Spirit (You say it his the 'Spiritual Body').
Well, ok, let's test your theory:
Describe Jesus' body in Heaven from the description given in Scriptures and show how they relate to the bodies of those raised from the dead to everlasting life.
Describe the bodies of Angels in Heaven from the descriptions given in Scriptures and show how they relate to the bodies of Spirits seen by Mankind on Earth!
Mikeboll, the discussion is ended and you have failed – these questions are only rag tag points that you fail to answer after many many requests from me to you.
Failure to adequetly answer the Bolded questions above using credible sources of references will deem that you cannot answer.
Quote You are entitled to your opinion, Toby. But it seems to be a lonely one, judging from the comments of the others here, and even your own source from yesterday. Please name one or more of those 'others here' and their credible opinions?
Quote (toby @ April 01 2012,16:18) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2012,00:29) Toby, Either show a scripture that says spirit beings such as angels don't have bodies, or give it up. Your smack talk only amuses you (and perhaps Gene and Shimmer).
Even the source you yourself quoted yesterday agrees that the raised dead will dwell in heaven WITH BODIES, like the body Jesus now dwells in heaven with.
The bodies of angels in heaven are described many times in scripture, yet you've taken it upon yourself to decide that those descriptions are symbolic.
You are entitled to your opinion, Toby. But it seems to be a lonely one, judging from the comments of the others here, and even your own source from yesterday.
Mikeboll,You said:
Quote Toby, Either show a scripture that says spirit beings such as angels don't have bodies, or give it up. Your smack talk only amuses you (and perhaps Gene and Shimmer).
Mikeboll, is this all you have?
Prove that Water is NOT WET!
Prove that Water can be DRUNK!
It is quite clear you have locked yourself in a box with the key thrown away and you are now just yelling through the bars! Everything you ask for has been answered to you many times over – your only hope (and fat chance of that – now you profess that Jesus was in a Spiritual Body when he came as man and therefore was not dead when he was on the cross and in the grave – these are conclusions from YOUR false ideology!) is to make repeated requests for 'proof of a negative'How can you 'Prove that 'Black' is not 'White'? Ah, I know: the definition of 'White' says 'Opposite of Black' and the definition of 'Black' says 'Opposite of White'.
So also, proof that 'Spirit is not in a body in Heaven': Spirit is in the Spirit Realm: Flesh (a Body) is in the Physical realm.
Water does not need a body when it is in the sea (the realm of water) but it needs to be in a vessel (a body – a container) when it is NOT in the sea (the realm of the land).
Quote Even the source you yourself quoted yesterday agrees that the raised dead will dwell in heaven WITH BODIES, like the body Jesus now dwells in heaven with. This is very desperate of you. The source explains the meaning but you appear selective in your choice of reading – taking things out of context is your speciality.
According to your rendering, Jesus is even now in two Spiritual Bodies – can you explain how the dead will emulate the two Spiritual Bodies of Jesus?
Quote The bodies of angels in heaven are described many times in scripture, yet you've taken it upon yourself to decide that those descriptions are symbolic. Mike, you boast eternally of this point but when asked to justify it you run a mile. Scriptures says that those raised from the dead will have bodies like Jesus has in Heaven right NOW as a Spirit (You say it his the 'Spiritual Body').
Well, ok, let's test your theory:
Describe Jesus' body in Heaven from the description given in Scriptures and show how they relate to the bodies of those raised from the dead to everlasting life.
Describe the bodies of Angels in Heaven from the descriptions given in Scriptures and show how they relate to the bodies of Spirits seen by Mankind on Earth!
Mikeboll, the discussion is ended and you have failed – these questions are only rag tag points that you fail to answer after many many requests from me to you.
Failure to adequetly answer the Bolded questions above using credible sources of references will deem that you cannot answer.
Quote You are entitled to your opinion, Toby. But it seems to be a lonely one, judging from the comments of the others here, and even your own source from yesterday. Please name one or more of those 'others here' and their credible opinions?
tobyQuote Mikeboll, the discussion is ended and you have failed we never have discuss the materials of the bodies of the Angels ,God ,Christ but only that they have a body or form that ALL,
you and some others have gone in great length to deviate in another direction what was not our intended goal but yours and so try by all means to discredit our objective,so you lost .
Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2012,02:25) Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2012,00:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2012,09:20) Toby, Your understanding is based upon the fact that we as humans don't know all things. For example, we don't KNOW how God transformed Jesus to become born of Mary. But us not knowing this or that specific detail is not really a good offense for someone claiming with certainty something that isn't even hinted at in scripture.
One can't reasonably say, “I don't know what happened to his spiritual body, therefore he must not have had one to begin with.”
I hope you can see this.
peace,
mike
Mike,Jesus was created from a part of Mary thus fulfilling the promise that the Messiah would be a descendant of David.
Kwhy would you make God a liar
or his the 7 th day of rest of God over when Jesus was “”created “”
? and what is it that Mary contribute ? the flesh ?? it stand for nothing,you are defending you own illusions
Pierre,Quote why would you make God a liar It is written:
Jeremiah 33
King James Version (KJV)17For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
To fulfill these words God took a part from Mary to create her son even as he took a part from Adam to create Eve.
You should be well aware that the flesh of men is created from a part of their parents and their soul (spirit) comes from God when they are conceived. Jesus’ conception was as other men accept with it’s being miraculous in nature as he has but one parent.
Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit, just as others are being born of the Spirit through him. Flesh is born from flesh and spirit is born from spirit.
Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2012,02:44) Quote (Pastry @ April 01 2012,14:37) Pierre, I don get what you mean by his 7 th day of rest when Jesus was created?
The name Jesus was given to The Word of God when He became flesh by Mary, that was not on the 7th day of creation….
Peace and Love Irene
Hi Irenehow are you I hope all is well with you and yours close ones ,
what I was saying to Kerwin is he said that Jesus was created in Mary ,so if that is true then He made God a liar because God says that he rested on the 7 th day right
Pierre,It is written:
John 5:17
New King James Version (NKJV)17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”
Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2012,18:34) Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2012,02:25) Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2012,00:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2012,09:20) Toby, Your understanding is based upon the fact that we as humans don't know all things. For example, we don't KNOW how God transformed Jesus to become born of Mary. But us not knowing this or that specific detail is not really a good offense for someone claiming with certainty something that isn't even hinted at in scripture.
One can't reasonably say, “I don't know what happened to his spiritual body, therefore he must not have had one to begin with.”
I hope you can see this.
peace,
mike
Mike,Jesus was created from a part of Mary thus fulfilling the promise that the Messiah would be a descendant of David.
Kwhy would you make God a liar
or his the 7 th day of rest of God over when Jesus was “”created “”
? and what is it that Mary contribute ? the flesh ?? it stand for nothing,you are defending you own illusions
Pierre,Quote why would you make God a liar It is written:
Jeremiah 33
King James Version (KJV)17For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
To fulfill these words God took a part from Mary to create her son even as he took a part from Adam to create Eve.
You should be well aware that the flesh of men is created from a part of their parents and their soul (spirit) comes from God when they are conceived. Jesus’ conception was as other men accept with it’s being miraculous in nature as he has but one parent.
Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit, just as others are being born of the Spirit through him. Flesh is born from flesh and spirit is born from spirit.
Kerwinwith this prophecy you encompass all scriptures disregard what they say just to satisfy your appetite of understanding
this is wrong ;
if you would have a pure heart you would see the truth as God want it not as you wanted ,
unless you explain the entire bible around your verse you may have a problem with your explanation to fit other scriptures ,
but you know that ,so you like to see your own understanding rather than the one describe in the scriptures ,
of cause you know that this will and has divided us ,and will continue to do so until the end ,wen all the wheat and the tar has been totally separated then Christ will come and deal with all ,according to his words
Hi Terraricca,
you saidQuote we never have discuss the materials of the bodies of the Angels ,God ,Christ but only that they have a body or form that ALL, you and some others have gone in great length to deviate in another direction what was not our intended goal but yours and so try by all means to discredit our objective,so you lost .
That is strange – are you saying that all this time there was never any need to say what kind of Body a Spirit has in Heaven?
Is this because you cannot say and you realise how blasphemous you sound?
Does not another person here says that body is the same Spiritual Body that Jesus has and we know that that body is Flesh and Bone because Jesus proved it to his disciples?
Terraricca, perhaps you can answer the question that another refuses to answer – and that is: if Jesus was in a Spiritual body while in Heaven before coming as Man then how did he die on the cross seeing that the Spiritual body cannot die.
Terraricca, this is the only question I am asking you to answer at this time.
thank you.
Hi Gene,
You said:
Quote Toby………> as we have said Spirits do not have Bodies over and over, and they are NOT BODIES of any kind either. IMO peace and love…………………………………………………..gene
Gene, thank you for your support as far as I said I agree with you.
However, can you see that the argument is NOT: 'Are Spirits Bodies' but 'Do Spirits HAVE BODIES' (IS a Spirits in Heaven IN A BODY).
I understand what you say about Human Spirits being IN A BODY of flesh on Earth – that is EXACTLY RIGHT. Gene – NO ONE IS ARGUING AGAINST THAT!
Can you just take it as read that the discussion is concerning a 'Spirit' – an Angel – (please call it what you like) and whether IT has a container BODY IN the Spirit Realm!
Now, you mistake the verse that says “God makes his Angels Spirit”' (for whatever unknown grammatical error you deem) in an attempt to claim that “God made Spirits for his Angels” but when out to the test you can neither justify your claim as to where 'Angels' came from in the first place to have Spirits put in them nor can you find any supporting claim for your (mis)interpretation of that verse.
I have asked you a number of times and you cannot respond with any answer except “I am still looking”.
Gene, please just stop looking as there is nothing to find (ha! I would NOT like to hear you say, “Just because it is not written anywhere else in the whole universe – doesn't mean it isn't true”, as another desperado in this thread might say)
You might as well be saying 'Cats are Blue'. The topic is not about 'Spirits ARE BODIES' – in fact, what on earth (or in Heaven) does 'A spirit is not a Body' mean anyway!!
Repeatedly stating the same thing over and over when no one is listening because you are not talking about the same thing others are does not make your argument any more valid.
Try this to get you back on track:
What did Jesus mean by 'Into thy hands I commit my Spirit' as he died on the Cross. In particular, pay attention to the fact that you rightly say that a SPIRIT IS IN a Body. Was the 'Spirit' in the Body that Jesus had on Earth also In A Body when Jesus died and it went back to God?Gene, please just answer with straight forward points – its not a debate and I am not trying catch you out – just asking straightforward questions that in line of Scriptures.
Thank you.
If you feel awkward about it then send me a PM with your answer.
toby
Quote Terraricca, perhaps you can answer the question that another refuses to answer – and that is: if Jesus was in a Spiritual body while in Heaven before coming as Man then how did he die on the cross seeing that the Spiritual body cannot die. first let correct your spelling ,I do not know but I believe we can not have two bodies we only have one ,like if a angel materializes and take a body of man he does not keep his spirit body ,one body at the time ,so Christ could not remain in his glorious body in heaven and at the same time being in a man's body,it is either one or the other ,so wen Christ became a man by the works of God powers he did not stay a spirit in nature but like us HE had the spirit of the soul that leaves us wen we die,this can not die unless God destroy it .
so in a matter of being right in Christ terms ;”GOD IS THE GOD OF THE LIVING NOT OF THE DEAD”so dead for now does not exist or dead is only THE ABILITY OF NON PERFORMANCE (NO ACTIONS NO INFLUENCE)AND SO JUST WAITING FOR THE TIME OF JUDGEMENT ,)
so what happen wen Jesus died same thing of what happen to all of us ,EXCEPT HIS WAITING TIME WAS LESS THAN THREE DAYS ,
would this answer be good enough to you ?
Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2012,11:34) Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2012,02:25) Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2012,00:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2012,09:20) Toby, Your understanding is based upon the fact that we as humans don't know all things. For example, we don't KNOW how God transformed Jesus to become born of Mary. But us not knowing this or that specific detail is not really a good offense for someone claiming with certainty something that isn't even hinted at in scripture.
One can't reasonably say, “I don't know what happened to his spiritual body, therefore he must not have had one to begin with.”
I hope you can see this.
peace,
mike
Mike,Jesus was created from a part of Mary thus fulfilling the promise that the Messiah would be a descendant of David.
Kwhy would you make God a liar
or his the 7 th day of rest of God over when Jesus was “”created “”
? and what is it that Mary contribute ? the flesh ?? it stand for nothing,you are defending you own illusions
Pierre,Quote why would you make God a liar It is written:
Jeremiah 33
King James Version (KJV)17For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
To fulfill these words God took a part from Mary to create her son even as he took a part from Adam to create Eve.
You should be well aware that the flesh of men is created from a part of their parents and their soul (spirit) comes from God when they are conceived. Jesus’ conception was as other men accept with it’s being miraculous in nature as he has but one parent.
Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit, just as others are being born of the Spirit through him. Flesh is born from flesh and spirit is born from spirit.
Hi KW,
Jesus was conceived.A Part from Mary??
Female genotype??
Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2012,11:51) Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2012,18:34) Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2012,02:25) Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2012,00:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2012,09:20) Toby, Your understanding is based upon the fact that we as humans don't know all things. For example, we don't KNOW how God transformed Jesus to become born of Mary. But us not knowing this or that specific detail is not really a good offense for someone claiming with certainty something that isn't even hinted at in scripture.
One can't reasonably say, “I don't know what happened to his spiritual body, therefore he must not have had one to begin with.”
I hope you can see this.
peace,
mike
Mike,Jesus was created from a part of Mary thus fulfilling the promise that the Messiah would be a descendant of David.
Kwhy would you make God a liar
or his the 7 th day of rest of God over when Jesus was “”created “”
? and what is it that Mary contribute ? the flesh ?? it stand for nothing,you are defending you own illusions
Pierre,Quote why would you make God a liar It is written:
Jeremiah 33
King James Version (KJV)17For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
To fulfill these words God took a part from Mary to create her son even as he took a part from Adam to create Eve.
You should be well aware that the flesh of men is created from a part of their parents and their soul (spirit) comes from God when they are conceived. Jesus’ conception was as other men accept with it’s being miraculous in nature as he has but one parent.
Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit, just as others are being born of the Spirit through him. Flesh is born from flesh and spirit is born from spirit.
Kerwinwith this prophecy you encompass all scriptures disregard what they say just to satisfy your appetite of understanding
this is wrong ;
if you would have a pure heart you would see the truth as God want it not as you wanted ,
unless you explain the entire bible around your verse you may have a problem with your explanation to fit other scriptures ,
but you know that ,so you like to see your own understanding rather than the one describe in the scriptures ,
of cause you know that this will and has divided us ,and will continue to do so until the end ,wen all the wheat and the tar has been totally separated then Christ will come and deal with all ,according to his words
Hi T,
Your claims that you have a pure heart and thus are the only one who can see truth are illusoryQuote (Nick Hassan @ April 01 2012,13:11) Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2012,11:34) Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2012,02:25) Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2012,00:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2012,09:20) Toby, Your understanding is based upon the fact that we as humans don't know all things. For example, we don't KNOW how God transformed Jesus to become born of Mary. But us not knowing this or that specific detail is not really a good offense for someone claiming with certainty something that isn't even hinted at in scripture.
One can't reasonably say, “I don't know what happened to his spiritual body, therefore he must not have had one to begin with.”
I hope you can see this.
peace,
mike
Mike,Jesus was created from a part of Mary thus fulfilling the promise that the Messiah would be a descendant of David.
Kwhy would you make God a liar
or his the 7 th day of rest of God over when Jesus was “”created “”
? and what is it that Mary contribute ? the flesh ?? it stand for nothing,you are defending you own illusions
Pierre,Quote why would you make God a liar It is written:
Jeremiah 33
King James Version (KJV)17For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
To fulfill these words God took a part from Mary to create her son even as he took a part from Adam to create Eve.
You should be well aware that the flesh of men is created from a part of their parents and their soul (spirit) comes from God when they are conceived. Jesus’ conception was as other men accept with it’s being miraculous in nature as he has but one parent.
Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit, just as others are being born of the Spirit through him. Flesh is born from flesh and spirit is born from spirit.
Hi KW,
Jesus was conceived.A Part from Mary??
Female genotype??
Nick,It is clear God changes a x chromosome to an y. He did the opposite when he created Eve.
Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2012,06:51) Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2012,18:34) It is written:
Jeremiah 33
King James Version (KJV)17For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
To fulfill these words God took a part from Mary to create her son even as he took a part from Adam to create Eve.
You should be well aware that the flesh of men is created from a part of their parents and their soul (spirit) comes from God when they are conceived. Jesus’ conception was as other men accept with it’s being miraculous in nature as he has but one parent.
Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit, just as others are being born of the Spirit through him. Flesh is born from flesh and spirit is born from spirit.
Kerwinwith this prophecy you encompass all scriptures disregard what they say just to satisfy your appetite of understanding
this is wrong ;
if you would have a pure heart you would see the truth as God want it not as you wanted ,
unless you explain the entire bible around your verse you may have a problem with your explanation to fit other scriptures ,
but you know that ,so you like to see your own understanding rather than the one describe in the scriptures ,
of cause you know that this will and has divided us ,and will continue to do so until the end ,wen all the wheat and the tar has been totally separated then Christ will come and deal with all ,according to his words
Pierre,Scripture clearly states the Messiah is the son of David. What passage of Scripture confuses you that you think otherwise?
Quote (toby @ Mar. 31 2012,16:18) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Toby, Either show a scripture that says spirit beings such as angels don't have bodies, or give it up.
Mikeboll, is this all you have?
Prove that Water is NOT WET!
Prove that Water can be DRUNK!
Why not list the whole scenario, instead of just part of it? This is how it really is:Scripture says water IS wet, and Toby says it isn't – without one shred of scriptural proof.
Scripture says that water CAN be drank, and Toby says it can't – without one shred of scriptural proof.
Scripture says “WHITE”, yet Toby insists upon “BLACK” – with no scriptural reason whatsoever to do so.
These examples are more aligned with our disagreement, Toby. You should really tell it like it is. So to answer your question, “YES, the fact that scripture speaks of the spiritual bodies and tents of those in heaven, and describes those bodies many times, is not only 'all I have', but also all I need.”
Compare that to what YOU bring to the table: “Although I have no scriptural reason for doing so, I THINK spirit beings are bodiless entities, so therefore they are!”
Quote (toby @ Mar. 31 2012,22:12) Terraricca, perhaps you can answer the question that another refuses to answer – and that is: if Jesus was in a Spiritual body while in Heaven before coming as Man then how did he die on the cross seeing that the Spiritual body cannot die.
I assume I'm the “another” who “refuses to answer”?Toby, if Jesus was existing in the form of God – as a being in heaven like the angels who do not die – then how did he die on the cross at all, seeing that spirit beings such as angels cannot die?
Pierre is correct that all of your “proof” questions are nothing but diversions. It's like you're saying, “Since we can't explain HOW God stretched out the heavens – He must not have really done it at all.”
Or……….. “Since you can't tell me the exact genetic makeup of an angel's spiritual body, they must not have one at all.” This is why I usually “refuse to answer” these fabulous “proof questions” you ask. They are a waste of time and proof of nothing.
Quote (toby @ Mar. 31 2012,22:20) Gene, thank you for your support as far as I said I agree with you. However, can you see that the argument is NOT: 'Are Spirits Bodies' but 'Do Spirits HAVE BODIES' (IS a Spirits in Heaven IN A BODY).
I understand what you say about Human Spirits being IN A BODY of flesh on Earth – that is EXACTLY RIGHT. Gene – NO ONE IS ARGUING AGAINST THAT!
Can you just take it as read that the discussion is concerning a 'Spirit' – an Angel – (please call it what you like) and whether IT has a container BODY IN the Spirit Realm!
You might as well be saying 'Cats are Blue'. The topic is not about 'Spirits ARE BODIES' – in fact, what on earth (or in Heaven) does 'A spirit is not a Body' mean anyway!!
Repeatedly stating the same thing over and over when no one is listening because you are not talking about the same thing others are does not make your argument any more valid.
Please Gene! You've ignored the 50 times I've told you this very thing. Will you finally listen and accept what it is we're even discussing, now that someone other than me has said it?Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2012,03:31) Pierre, Scripture clearly states the Messiah is the son of David. What passage of Scripture confuses you that you think otherwise?
Scripture also states that Jesus Christ was existing in the form of God BEFORE he was made into the likeness of a human being. Scripture says Jesus was Lord and Christ before all the ages – and that those ages were actually created through him.Scripture makes a point of spelling out that Jesus was not ONLY the Branch of David, but ALSO the Root of David.
Kerwin, why is it that you only believe the part of the scriptures that seem to support your doctrine, while twisting or ignoring the many scriptures that support the WHOLE TRUTH of the matter?
YES, we all agree that Jesus was the son of David…………….ACCORDING TO THE FLESH. But Jesus himself asks: How then can the Messiah be the son of David if David himself calls him “my Lord”?
When you learn the answer to this question Jesus asked, you'll be on your way to the WHOLE TRUTH of the scriptures. (But not until you understand the question itself, and the scriptural answer to it.)
Nick,
What follows is the discourse we started yesterday because you felt it necessary to “teach me” something about being taught by my “speculations” instead of by scripture.
Please answer the last quote below, so we can end the discourse.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2012,14:50) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 31 2012,14:21) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 01 2012,14:13) Hi MB,
If angels are described in certain forms why would you decide they are in bodies?
Nwhy would you figure they are not
???
My thoughts exactly, Pierre. What else would “form” be referring to anyway?Besides, Paul answers a question about BODIES (not “forms”) in 1 Cor 15. And his answer is that the dead will be raised in spiritual bodies, like those of heaven have.
We have borne the likeness (form, body) of the man of dust. In the resurrection, we will bear the likeness (form, body) of the man from heaven. And as is the man from heaven, “so are those who are of heaven”.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 31 2012,14:52) Hi MB,
Either we are taught by scripture or our own speculations.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2012,15:10) It seems to me scripture is pretty clear about the BODIES the dead will be raised in, and how they are going to be like the bodies those of heaven have. If you don't see that in the teaching, then you are entitled to your own interpretation. But don't try to belittle others because they understand certain scriptures differently than you.
What “bodies” do you think Paul is talking about in 1 Cor 15? Do you disagree with my understanding that he is saying we've had the body of the earthly man, and will have the body of the heavenly being? If so, why? And what do YOU think he means?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 31 2012,15:15) Hi MB,
Agreed that we shall be like to the man from heaven.
We will be like to the angels in some ways too? this way.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2012,15:17) And does that “man from heaven” have a body in heaven? Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 31 2012,15:19) Hi MB,
Indeed he does.
An imperishable oneQuote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2012,15:21) And do you believe that as is his likeness, so are those who are of heaven? Quote (toby @ April 01 2012,15:20) What did Jesus mean by 'Into thy hands I commit my Spirit' as he died on the Cross. In particular, pay attention to the fact that you rightly say that a SPIRIT IS IN a Body. Was the 'Spirit' in the Body that Jesus had on Earth also In A Body when Jesus died and it went back to God? Gene, please just answer with straight forward points – its not a debate and I am not trying catch you out – just asking straightforward questions that in line of Scriptures.
Thank you.
If you feel awkward about it then send me a PM with your answer.
Toby……….. Jesus went to the GRAVE not to the FATHER at all His Spirit went back to who gave it, When Jesus died He no longer existed as a LIVING SOUL of any kind He was dead as if he never ever existed and would still be that way Now or forever, if GOD did not raise up HIS BODY and Add Spirit back into itMy understanding of what Spirits are is not the same as most, i do not see spirits as “BEINGS”, but Aspects of Beings, for instance is GOD ONE SPIRIT, NO GOD is a composition of seven Spirits that make up his Mind's Eye or thinking.
To me there exists NO SPIRIT “BEINGS” only summations of Spirits (intellects) that make a Being. God creates a BODIES and INSTALLS SPIRITS (IN) the Spirit He Creates are in all human Beings and in all the physical creation animals or man or angels.
They are the very eyes of awareness for all, the whole creation. Each Spirit produces a aspect of what it is (IN)in that Person it is (IN), Rather Yahweh or Man or angels, but no spirit apart from a body is a Person or Being (IT) Self. A spirit is much like the Wind (IT) can be anywhere at the same time . If i said you have the Spirit of Wisdom, that exact same Spirit can be in millions of people working in all at the same time and that would not be a “BEING” working in them But a ASPECT of LIFE working in them all at the same time , that God may be in all and through all.
Now if God is in us all then so are the seven Spirits of God also, We are born with many of God's Spirits already that is why we are made in his image, it is becasue of those Spirit given us from him, But not one of those Spirits are a “BEING” themselves.
There is No She “WISDOM SPIRIT” there is Just the Spirit (intellect) of Wisdom and it can be in all. This applies to ALL SPIRITS, they are like water it can be taken in and out anyone or be in everyone at the same time.
God will in one sweep remove EVIL from the earth for a thousand years and every Nature of every Being will be Changes in a flash.
The View that there are Spirit “Beings” is false there are ” Spirits which are “ASPECTS” or “ATTRIBUTES” of what are (IN) Beings, not one spirit can be considered a BEING of (IT) SELF. Not even GOD, He is a Composition of Seven Spirits and these Seven Spirits (intellects) individually are “ASPECTS or ATTRIBUTES” that Make up Yahweh's Existing (INTELLECTS) and These exact same ATTRIBUTE can be (IN) ANYONE at the SAME TIME, as in the case of Jesus all seven are there, but they are NOT Seven PERSONS, but SEVEN SPIRIT ATTRIBUTES or TYPES OF (INTELLECTS).
There is NO Satan “BEING” at all there is ONLY the SPIRIT of a (Ha-Satan) that operates (IN) and through People. Personification of Spirit is the Problem, Spirits are not “Persons” or Beings with their own MINDS as you and Most suppose. They are ASPECTS of the MINDS of a PERSON each is ONLY (ONE) ASPECT and can only produce ONE LIFE “effect” in the Mind of a Person.
Again Personification of Spirits is the Problem here and even Jesus said that when he said He spoke about the Father in a “Proverbial” Language, the meaning of that “proverbial Language” is a “FICTITIOUS ILLUSTRATION” Ever wonder why Jesus said that , Let me tell you what i thing is the reason, It is becasue they the Disciples could not understand or percieve at that time what a Spirit really was, no more then most can today. IMO
This Personification Throws most everyone off and only a few today truly understand what a Spirit is and it of it self is NOT a Person of any kind it is just a aspect or Part of many Aspects or attributes that are need to make a complete Person or “BEING”
There is not a Single Spirit anywhere that is a complete “PERSON of any kind…….IMO
Now if the Spirit that was (IN) Christ Jesus be (IN) you (IT) shall also quicken your Mortal BODY. The Spirit is the Life (AWARENESS) of the BODY. But without a BODY you are dead and do not no longer exist, even if the Spirits go Back to GOD who gave it in the first place, why becasue those Spirits can be in anyone and have always existed, but you or I did not always exist and can not exist without those Spirits (IN) a PHYSICAL BODY that is PARTICULARLY OUR OWN BODY, MADE and given us BY GOD.
No one will be a “LIVING SOUL” again after he or she dies without a PHYSICAL BODY. It is crucial that we obtain to a “RESURRECTION” that will witness the redemption of our BODIES ” in order to continue to Live as a SEPARATE BEING AGAIN, Just as Jesus had to in order for him to continue to Live as a SEPARATE or INDIVIDUAL BEING AGAIN.
Again there are no Spirit “BEINGS”, there are SPIRITS (IN) BEINGS> IMO
peace and love to you and yours Toby……………………………gene
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