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Toby………> as we have said Spirits do not have Bodies over and over, and they are NOT BODIES of any kind either. IMO
peace and love…………………………………………………..gene
Quote (toby @ Mar. 30 2012,02:56) So that is it then – that is your grand escape plan ……………. 
Okay Toby. It's your story – tell it like you want to……………. as long as it means I have finally truly escaped from you! 
And btw, the source you quoted understands it much like I've been telling you all along:
Lastly, our resurrected body will be a spiritual one. Our natural bodies are suited for living in this world, but this is the only realm in which we can live.Just as we have borne the natural, earthly bodies of the first Adam…………………
After the resurrection we will have a “spiritual body,” perfectly suited for living in heaven.
…………..we will bear the spiritual body that the last Adam and those of heaven have.
This does not mean that we will be only spirits—spirits do not have bodies………
As for this part, we'd have to find out if they are considering “spirits” as spirit beings, such as angels; or if they are thinking more along the lines of “team spirit” and the like.If it is the former, then I would ask them what I've just asked you: Can you show me any scripture at all that would even suggest such a thing as angels NOT having bodies?
They go on to say:
We get a glimpse of what our resurrection bodies will be like when we recall Jesus’ post-resurrection appearances. He still had visible wounds, and His disciples could physically touch Him, yet He was able to travel effortlessly and appear and disappear at will. He could go through walls and doors yet could also eat and drink and sit and talk. Scripture informs us that our “lowly bodies” will be just “like His glorious body” (Philippians 3:21).With this part, I disagree – but more than that, they seem to be confused about what they actually believe. Note that they say our earthly flesh bodies are suited for living in this realm, but that this is the ONLY realm in which they can live. They even quote 1 Cor 15:50, which says “Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God”, as support to their claim.
But somehow they seem to have done away with Luke 24:39, which teaches us that the body Jesus was raised in DID consist of flesh and bone.
So they've either ignored that scripture, or they are like Kerwin, who thinks “flesh and blood” is out, but “flesh and bone” is okay in heaven. Either way, I disagree with them on this part.
Also note that they list Phil 3:21 as support to their understanding that Jesus DOES have a body in heaven right now. It's just that they think the body he has in heaven IS the body with the holes from the nails and the spear that he was raised from the dead in. I agree with them that Jesus DOES have a body in heaven right now. But I agree with you that Jesus is not now dwelling in heaven within the body in which he was raised.
Toby, let me know if you ever find a scripture that mentions angels not having bodies okay? Until then, go ahead and claim your victory over me and the 30 others here who have agreed with me – if it makes you feel better.
peace,
mikeMikeboll,
You said:Quote This does not mean that we will be only spirits—spirits do not have bodies………
As for this part, we'd have to find out if they are considering “spirits” as spirit beings, such as angels; or if they are thinking more along the lines of “team spirit” and the like.No, they were not thinking that 'Spirit' means 'Team Spirit' else you would need to go through the whole of the Scriptures ADDING the word 'Being' to every reference to 'Spirit' in context – for instance:
– 'Holy Spirit Being' and
– 'Listen to what the Spirit Being says' and
– 'Into thy hands I commit my Spirit Being' and
– 'God blew the Spirit Being into his nostrils'Mike, how was Jesus, in Heaven, be in a 'Spiritual Body' that cannot die and yet come as Mankind and yet DIE on the cross?
Toby,
Your understanding is based upon the fact that we as humans don't know all things. For example, we don't KNOW how God transformed Jesus to become born of Mary. But us not knowing this or that specific detail is not really a good offense for someone claiming with certainty something that isn't even hinted at in scripture.
One can't reasonably say, “I don't know what happened to his spiritual body, therefore he must not have had one to begin with.”
I hope you can see this.
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2012,09:20) Toby, Your understanding is based upon the fact that we as humans don't know all things. For example, we don't KNOW how God transformed Jesus to become born of Mary. But us not knowing this or that specific detail is not really a good offense for someone claiming with certainty something that isn't even hinted at in scripture.
One can't reasonably say, “I don't know what happened to his spiritual body, therefore he must not have had one to begin with.”
I hope you can see this.
peace,
mike
Mike,Jesus was created from a part of Mary thus fulfilling the promise that the Messiah would be a descendant of David.
Hi Mike.
You said:
Quote Toby, Your understanding is based upon the fact that we as humans don't know all things.
I see you are relying on 'fallbacks' now but that will not work either because in this case we do know that the 'Spirit' is defined as 'Incorporeal, Bodiless, Not made of material matter, without Form or Shape, etc.' and this is the understanding of all credible persons (unless you can prove otherwise by means of proof positive presentation that fits with the rest of Scriptures – not detatched imaginings)
Quote For example, we don't KNOW how God transformed Jesus to become born of Mary. But us not knowing this or that specific detail is not really a good offense (sic) for someone claiming with certainty something that isn't even hinted at in scripture. Mikeboll, the Scriptures could not be contained in any book on Earth if everything that is not is written in it. There are far more things in Spirit realm and in the physical realm than can be spoken of but those things that are relevant at this time, are mentioned.
Your statement is leaning towards the irrelevance of discussion on any matter let alone debate (which you claim as – and failed at – being 'Best ' at) seeing that there will always be things we do not know – but that judicious, unprejudiced, unbiased and non-desperate searching and interpretation of Scriptures will reveal either through prayer or revelation.
Quote One can't reasonably say, “I don't know what happened to his spiritual body, therefore he must not have had one to begin with.” Mikeboll, except that it is only you that makes such a false claim which you now cannot justify because it puts you in a delemma of saying that Jesus could not have died as a man because he must have been in his 'Spiritual Body' on Earth which cannot die and since the Spirit (Being) that is Jesus is in that Spiritual Body (That you claim) then Jesus was still alive when his Earthly body was in the grave thus you are making a claim that Scriptures is wrong that Jesus died. Wow, Mikeboll, I did warn you!
Quote I hope you can see this. What i see is you not willing to simply say that you were wrong – but it matters not to me personally. (But it matters to those '30 others' that you mentioned) and not to forget, 'The Testament of Christ' which we call 'Scriptures' and 'The Bible'!
Toby,
Either show a scripture that says spirit beings such as angels don't have bodies, or give it up. Your smack talk only amuses you (and perhaps Gene and Shimmer).
Even the source you yourself quoted yesterday agrees that the raised dead will dwell in heaven WITH BODIES, like the body Jesus now dwells in heaven with.
The bodies of angels in heaven are described many times in scripture, yet you've taken it upon yourself to decide that those descriptions are symbolic.
You are entitled to your opinion, Toby. But it seems to be a lonely one, judging from the comments of the others here, and even your own source from yesterday.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 01 2012,14:13) Hi MB,
If angels are described in certain forms why would you decide they are in bodies?
Nwhy would you figure they are not
???Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2012,00:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2012,09:20) Toby, Your understanding is based upon the fact that we as humans don't know all things. For example, we don't KNOW how God transformed Jesus to become born of Mary. But us not knowing this or that specific detail is not really a good offense for someone claiming with certainty something that isn't even hinted at in scripture.
One can't reasonably say, “I don't know what happened to his spiritual body, therefore he must not have had one to begin with.”
I hope you can see this.
peace,
mike
Mike,Jesus was created from a part of Mary thus fulfilling the promise that the Messiah would be a descendant of David.
Kwhy would you make God a liar
or his the 7 th day of rest of God over when Jesus was “”created “”
? and what is it that Mary contribute ? the flesh ?? it stand for nothing,you are defending you own illusions
Pierre, I don get what you mean by his 7 th day of rest when Jesus was created?
The name Jesus was given to The Word of God when He became flesh by Mary, that was not on the 7th day of creation….
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Pastry @ April 01 2012,14:37) Pierre, I don get what you mean by his 7 th day of rest when Jesus was created?
The name Jesus was given to The Word of God when He became flesh by Mary, that was not on the 7th day of creation….
Peace and Love Irene
Hi Irenehow are you I hope all is well with you and yours close ones ,
what I was saying to Kerwin is he said that Jesus was created in Mary ,so if that is true then He made God a liar because God says that he rested on the 7 th day right
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 31 2012,14:21) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 01 2012,14:13) Hi MB,
If angels are described in certain forms why would you decide they are in bodies?
Nwhy would you figure they are not
???
My thoughts exactly, Pierre. What else would “form” be referring to anyway?Besides, Paul answers a question about BODIES (not “forms”) in 1 Cor 15. And his answer is that the dead will be raised in spiritual bodies, like those of heaven have.
We have borne the likeness (form, body) of the man of dust. In the resurrection, we will bear the likeness (form, body) of the man from heaven. And as is the man from heaven, “so are those who are of heaven”.
It seems to me scripture is pretty clear about the BODIES the dead will be raised in, and how they are going to be like the bodies those of heaven have.
If you don't see that in the teaching, then you are entitled to your own interpretation. But don't try to belittle others because they understand certain scriptures differently than you.
What “bodies” do you think Paul is talking about in 1 Cor 15? Do you disagree with my understanding that he is saying we've had the body of the earthly man, and will have the body of the heavenly being? If so, why? And what do YOU think he means?
Hi MB,
Agreed that we shall be like to the man from heaven.
We will be like to the angels in some ways too? this way.Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2012,07:44) Quote (Pastry @ April 01 2012,14:37) Pierre, I don get what you mean by his 7 th day of rest when Jesus was created?
The name Jesus was given to The Word of God when He became flesh by Mary, that was not on the 7th day of creation….
Peace and Love Irene
Hi Irenehow are you I hope all is well with you and yours close ones ,
what I was saying to Kerwin is he said that Jesus was created in Mary ,so if that is true then He made God a liar because God says that he rested on the 7 th day right
Pierre! Sorry but that is not what you are saying in the previous post……Yes God rested on the 7th day….but Jesus was not created then, that is what you were stating….
Pierre humble yourself when someone points out that you are wrongly stated something….Peace and Love Irene
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