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Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 19 2012,12:58) And what's worse, your Jesus isn't even the scriptural Jesus. The scriptural Jesus came down from heaven – yours didn't. The scriptural Jesus was existing in the form of God before emptying himself of all that and being made into a human being – yours wasn't. The scriptural Jesus had the ages created through him – yours didn't. How long will you continue to teach this unscriptual Jesus, Nick?
Hi MB,
You mean CHRIST Jesus.[phil2]
Now we have two origins to consider.
But we no longer speak of Jesus according to flesh[2cor5.16]That leaves one
No Nick. The ages were created through God's Son. That couldn't have happened unless God HAD a Son before the ages were created.
Go sell crazy somewhere else……………..I'm not buying.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 18 2012,20:30) Points Mike?
Only unwise judgements
Sorry. I deleted that post immediately when I saw you had posted again – because it didn't fit the context of your second post.I believe the scriptures, Nick. You obviously don't. We really have no more to say to each other.
Hi MB,
You demand the right to make God conform to yoursense of TIME?Unless you understand God's different and prophetic sense of time you will stay frustrated.
You will be saved
You are saved.
You are being saved.
You have been saved.All these apply to the servants of God
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 19 2012,12:58) And what's worse, your Jesus isn't even the scriptural Jesus. The scriptural Jesus came down from heaven – yours didn't. The scriptural Jesus was existing in the form of God before emptying himself of all that and being made into a human being – yours wasn't. The scriptural Jesus had the ages created through him – yours didn't. How long will you continue to teach this unscriptual Jesus, Nick?
Hi MB,John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.2 Corinthians 11:4
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 18 2012,20:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 19 2012,12:58) And what's worse, your Jesus isn't even the scriptural Jesus. The scriptural Jesus came down from heaven – yours didn't. The scriptural Jesus was existing in the form of God before emptying himself of all that and being made into a human being – yours wasn't. The scriptural Jesus had the ages created through him – yours didn't. How long will you continue to teach this unscriptual Jesus, Nick?
Hi MB,John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
That's right Nick. Jesus came down from heaven, and foretold that certain ones would later see him ascend to where he was before.THAT is the scriptural Jesus. You teach a different one.
To all;
John 3:13
King James Version (KJV)13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Jesus was both in heaven and on earth?
Jesus already ascended to heaven as he was saying these words on earth?
The NIV adds some information.
John 3:13
New International Version (NIV)13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[a]
Footnotes:a) John 3:13 Some manuscripts Man, who is in heaven
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 20 2012,06:23) Hi KW,
He is one with the Spirit of God.
Nick,That is what I am convinced John 3 teaches us.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 19 2012,17:42) Hi MB,
Jesus is a man.
Jn8.40
Do men come from heaven?
Only the one who was existing in the form of God before being made into the likeness of a human being. Only the one through whom all things were created who later partook in sinful flesh because the children he hoped to save were of sinful flesh.THAT is the scriptural Jesus. YOU teach a different one.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 20 2012,06:48) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 19 2012,17:42) Hi MB,
Jesus is a man.
Jn8.40
Do men come from heaven?
Only the one who was existing in the form of God before being made into the likeness of a human being. Only the one through whom all things were created who later partook in sinful flesh because the children he hoped to save were of sinful flesh.THAT is the scriptural Jesus. YOU teach a different one.
Mike,Where is that written?
Quote (kerwin @ April 19 2012,18:16) The NIV adds some information.
NETNotes adds a lot of info on that verse:
tc Most witnesses, including a few important ones (A- Θ Ψ 050 Ë1,13 Ï latt syc,p,h), have at the end of this verse “the one who is in heaven” (ὁ ὢν ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ, Jo wn en tw ouranw). A few others have variations on this phrase, such as “who was in heaven” (e syc), or “the one who is from heaven” (0141 pc sys). The witnesses normally considered the best, along with several others, lack the phrase in its entirety (Ì66,75 א B L T Ws 083 086 33 1241 pc co). On the one hand, if the reading ὁ ὢν ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ is authentic it may suggest that while Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus he spoke of himself as in heaven even while he was on earth. If that is the case, one could see why variations from this hard saying arose: “who was in heaven,” “the one who is from heaven,” and omission of the clause. At the same time, such a saying could be interpreted (though with difficulty) as part of the narrator’s comments rather than Jesus’ statement to Nicodemus, alleviating the problem. And if v. 13 was viewed in early times as the evangelist’s statement, “the one who is in heaven” could have crept into the text through a marginal note. Other internal evidence suggests that this saying may be authentic. The adjectival participle, ὁ ὤν, is used in the Fourth Gospel more than any other NT book (though the Apocalypse comes in a close second), and frequently with reference to Jesus (1:18; 6:46; 8:47). It may be looking back to the LXX of Exod 3:14 (ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν). Especially since this exact construction is not necessary to communicate the location of the Son of Man, its presence in many witnesses here may suggest authenticity. Further, John uses the singular of οὐρανός (ourano”, “heaven”) in all 18 instances of the word in this Gospel, and all but twice with the article (only 1:32 and 6:58 are anarthrous, and even in the latter there is significant testimony to the article). At the same time, the witnesses that lack this clause are very weighty and must not be discounted. Generally speaking, if other factors are equal, the reading of such mss should be preferred. And internally, it could be argued that ὁ ὤν is the most concise way to speak of the Son of Man in heaven at that time (without the participle the point would be more ambiguous). Further, the articular singular οὐρανός is already used twice in this verse, thus sufficiently prompting scribes to add the same in the longer reading. This combination of factors suggests that ὁ ὢν ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ is not a genuine Johannism. Further intrinsic evidence against the longer reading relates to the evangelist’s purposes: If he intended v. 13 to be his own comments rather than Jesus’ statement, his switch back to Jesus’ words in v. 14 (for the lifting up of the Son of Man is still seen as in the future) seems inexplicable. The reading “who is in heaven” thus seems to be too hard. All things considered, as intriguing as the longer reading is, it seems almost surely to have been a marginal gloss added inadvertently to the text in the process of transmission.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 19 2012,18:50) Hi MB,
He said he was a man but you disagree ?
I don't disagree at all. I KNOW he was a man. But he also said he came down from heaven, and would ascend to where he WAS BEFORE. Do YOU disagree?
Hi MB,
But he was in heaven when he spoke jn3. 13.
Could it be meant in the same way as Col3.1 for us?BY THE SPIRIT
The words “who is in heaven” is most likely a marginal note that was inadvertently added into the words of Jesus. Jesus was not “in heaven” when he was speaking to Nicodemus.
In Col 3, Paul is using zealous language. He does that often, like when he says “we have died to sin”. Nobody he said that to was literally dead.
I asked you if you disagreed with Jesus that he came down from heaven. What is your answer?
Mike……….But what if it is not a “MARGINAL NOTE” then what is your answer? How will you dance around that? Or will you just ignore it as you do other scriptures that disagree with your preexistence theologies. Jesus plainly said many many times over He was a SON OF MAN that means he derived his existence from MANKIND> He said He was the offspring and root of David , God said he was to come from the root of JESSE, But you say different, you move Jesus away from us by Making him different then Mankind, your religion of SEPARATION is a FALSE teaching. God was not working with angels or demigods but with mankind and he used a Man, “the man Jesus”, for his ultimate purpose for all mankind.
Jesus is the first born int the kingdom of GOD of many brethren it say. You religion of SEPARATION is a FAKE and UNTRUE and works against GOD and His words and WORK through Jesus as our EXACT EXAMPLE in EVERY WAY WITHOUT EXCEPTION a pure HUMAN BEING our EXACT example. The first human born of the NEW CREATION of GOD ON EARTH BY His HOLY SPIRIT> Your MYSTERY RELIGION has no place in SOUND TEACHINGS of those who KNOW the TRUTH> IMO
peace and love……………………………………………………………gene
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