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Both you and Jodi both appear to be pushing the doctrine
that Jesus was a sheep elevated to the rank of shepherd.
But no-where does the bible ever allude to this doctrine?And yes God does take shepards from the sheep fold and uses them for shepards.
Ok, Gene,
Please provide Chapter and verse references for us then
____________
God bless
Ed JEdj…..I have already listed the scriptures that show clearly Jesus view as the “lamb of God”. Go back and read them.
As far as Jesus crying out “my God, my God why have you forsaken me”? Check out Mat 27:46, and Mar 15:34. Read it and tell us does that sound like a creator being, who created everything according to you people. I think not, that sounds like a real human being who was truly in fear of dying, having no past experience with creating life or his own power of resurrection in any form.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene
Hi Ed J,
Ask yourself, how it is that Jesus is our Shepherd in the first place?
Mark 6:34 And Jesus, when he came out, saw much people, and was moved with compassion toward them, because they were as sheep not having a shepherd: and he began to teach them many things.
John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them,Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them,When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
Ed J, that which Jesus taught, that which Jesus spoke were not his words but God’s, and according to John 3, Luke 4 and Acts 10, he was able to preach BECAUSE the Spirit had come to rest upon him, an ANOINTING where he was THEN SENT out for that purpose.
Our Heavenly Father is our Shepherd and He chose to lead us through the Son of Man who He anointed/set apart by begetting him with His Spirit to be a shepherd unto us. God called him to righteousness, directing all his ways so that we would behold the glory of a man who God filled with grace and truth.
Jodi, couldn’t have said it better sis. If only they could understand that.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Both you and Jodi both appear to be pushing the doctrine
that Jesus was a sheep elevated to the rank of shepherd.Hi Ed J,
Ask yourself, how it is that Jesus is our Shepherd in the first place?
Hi Jodi,
It’s nice that post Scripture for us. However none of those
verses present the premise of a sheep elevated to Shepherd.
You both want to believe something that is clearly not Scriptural.____________
God bless
Ed JOkay Ed J,
Let me expand on this for you and I hope it brings some clarity,
1 Kings 22:17 And he said, I saw all Israel scattered upon the hills, as sheep that have not a shepherd: and the LORD said, These have no master: let them return every man to his house in peace.
Would you agree that in the above we see that a shepherd and a master are one and the same? A shepherd is as a master over his sheep, he leads his sheep. I am hoping we can at least agree on that!
Mark 6:34 And Jesus, when he came out, saw much people, and was moved with compassion toward them, because they were as sheep not having a shepherd: and he began to teach them many things.
Likewise we see that a shepherd and a teacher are one and the same. A shepherd is a teacher over his sheep.
Ed J, as Jesus is a teacher and a master called a shepherd FOR THAT REASON, so to is God a shepherd for the SAME REASON. I DO NOT LIE when I say that JESUS SAID he WAS TAUGHT BY GOD, and I DO NOT LIE when I say that JESUS OBEYED God, as a servant obeys his master. The very reason we are saved Ed J is because JESUS OBEYED his master, his teacher, thus most certainly his Shepherd!
Romans 5:19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them,When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
God was most certainly a teacher and a master over Jesus, thus you most certainly have a Shepherd and a LAMB. By the LAMBS OBEDIENCE TO THE SHEPHERD in going to the cross you are saved from your sins.
Isaiah 45:13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.
Ed J, seriously come on now, a shepherd LEADS, he DIRECTS, Jesus was the LAMB of GOD BECAUSE GOD was his Shepherd directing ALL his WAYS, and by such he would not fail. Jesus was a LAMB without spot or blemish BECAUSE of his OBEDIENCE to his SHEPHERD.
Ed J, Jesus preached, he TAUGHT the word’s of the LORD, and by such he was a shepherd unto the people, but he was a shepherd ONLY through being appointed as such by the LORD who was in turn his Shepherd in all things, for the LORD’S Spirit was upon him not by measure, directing all his ways, telling him that which he should teach.
Ed J, you can be a LAMB and be a SHEPHERD at the same time, which Jesus IS, just like he is also a SERVANT and a MASTER at the same time, just like he is DIRECTED and a DIRECTOR at the same time.
Ed J, you can be a LAMB and be a SHEPHERD at the same time, which Jesus IS, just like he is also a SERVANT and a MASTER at the same time, just like he is DIRECTED and a DIRECTOR at the same time.
Yes Jodi,
That is what I’m saying:
Jesus was a LAMB and be a SHEPHERD at the same time
but you are saying something entirely different.
What you are saying is:
Jesus was first a lamb, then
later elevated to that of ShepherdHe was actually Shepard all the way through,
but only became a lamb for a very short timeAl least Gene admits it:
And yes God does take shepards from the sheep fold and uses them for shepards.
Isaiah 45:13 I have raised him up in righteousness
Jodi,
This is not talking about raising Jesus from sheep to Shepherd – get real
Hi Ed J,
You are being incoherent here, let me highlight for you from your post,
Ed J, you can be a LAMB and be a SHEPHERD AT THE SAME TIME, which Jesus IS, just like he is also a SERVANT and a MASTER at the same time, just like he is DIRECTED and a DIRECTOR at the same time.
Yes Jodi,
That is what I’m saying:
Jesus was a LAMB and be a SHEPHERD at the same time
but you are saying something entirely different.
What you are saying is:
Jesus was first a lamb, then
later elevated to that of ShepherdHe was actually Shepard all the way through,
but only became a lamb for a very short timeME:
Let’s get this straight, I say you can be a lamb and a shepherd AT THE SAME TIME, you say that is what you are talking about, agreeing with me, but then you TURN and say I am saying something different entirely, lol!! COME AGAIN?????
How is it exactly that I directly said AT THE SAME TIME, and then you AGREED, but then you turn and accuse me of saying Jesus was first a lamb then later a shepherd???????????????
Hi Ed J,
YOU:He was actually Shepard all the way through,
but only became a lamb for a very short time.ME:
Acts 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) 37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles…6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Ed J, Jesus is a man who God ordained/appointed as a man to judge the world in righteousness on a certain day. The prophecy of Isaiah 11 isn’t fully fulfilled, where you have a human of the offspring of Jesse who has the LORD’S Spirit upon him who is to judge not by his own eyes and ears. Recall Acts 2 where Jesus is raised from the dead by the LORD and is said to have received the PROMISE of the Holy Spirit, where he likewise had received eternal life, and the promise of the mercies of David. Then in Acts 17 your are told that it is a man ordained to judge. We have assurance of this judgment given unto people righteously BECAUSE the LORD raised this MAN from the dead.
The scriptures Ed J tell you that when Jesus returns that he is both a LAMB of the LORD with the LORD being His Shepherd while being at the same time, appointed by the LORD AS A MAN, to be our shepherd. Ed J, right now the SON OF MAN is sitting at the right hand of the LORD, and it is this MAN that is returning to resurrect the just according to this man having been ordained to be a judge.
Rev 5: 12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy IS the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
Ed J, Jesus IS still the LAMB, and he was worthy to RECEIVE power, riches, wisdom strength, honor, glory, and blessing BECAUSE he was the MAN of the PROMISE of Psalm 8, the ADAM that the LORD was mindful of and visited, a visitation that was a calling to righteousness, a visitation where the LORD directed all his ways by having the LORD’S Spirit rest upon him without measure. By such he was MADE perfect as we are told by the Apostle Paul. He, this ADAM, LEARNED OBEDIENCE. This servant who the LORD rested His Spirit upon also called a LAMB had DIED, but the LORD raised him from the dead giving him power, glory, and an incorruptible body of flesh and bones. He received the promises given to David of Psalm 8 concerning an ADAM a HUMAN. He fulfilled Psalm 89 where the LORD had promised to MAKE a Firstborn Son. Why Paul tells us that he IS the firstborn of the dead of many brethren, an heir of the LORD where we likewise are JOINT HEIRS OF the LORD. We follow Jesus as a king of kings and a lord of lords, as he is our shepherd, a HUMAN appointed by our One True God to be as such.
T8……Do you resort to such things and make fun of the Lamb of God, our Lord Jesus the christ. , bad form T8. Tell your find to be careful he could bring hell down on his head.
Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene
Obviously I’m making fun of the doctrine or notion that you guys are proposing. Jesus is the shepherd and those that hear his voice are the sheep. Simple as that.
Saying Jesus is also a sheep in order to promote the Ordinary Jesus Brigade doctrine is what I’m mocking and rightly so because he is also the bridegroom and we the bride as well as us being the vine and we the branches.
Obviously he is not the bride or a branch on the vine. And he is not a sheep who listens to the shepherd because he is that shepherd. He hears from God.
t8,
You said that Jesus “HEARS from God”, that speaks to my whole point! As Jesus hears from God that means he listens as that of a LAMB who is led by a Shepherd.
God our Father is the Ultimate Shepherd, and He wants us to believe in His Son who God appointed over us as a shepherd. The One True God LEADS us through HIS LAMB, and that LAMB is unto us thus a shepherd. This is not complicated, nor does it take away at all from WHO JESUS IS.
t8, Jesus was TAUGHT by God, and we are taught by God through Jesus as God appointed Jesus to be our teacher. Do you not get the concept that you can be taught and be a teacher? Do you not get that you can have a kingdom and be a king but also have a king over you? Jesus IS to be a king of kings after all. Likewise Jesus is a shepherd over other shepherds, such as the apostle Paul who taught us many things, a leader of sheep unto God’s Gospel of Jesus the Anointed.
Just as you can be taught and be a teacher at the same time, you can be a shepherd and have a shepherd over you also, just as one can be appointed by a King to be a king over kings.
ALSO, there is but One True God who is Master (a Lord) over ALL, and He MADE the man Jesus to be a master over masters (lord of lords).
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
t8, Jesus is said to be in the verse above a LAMB of God AND at the same time a Lord of lords and a King of kings.
Where would this LAMB be without the promises God spoke concerning him in Isaiah? Well, he wouldn’t the Lamb at all.
Ed J, you can be a LAMB and be a SHEPHERD AT THE SAME TIME.
No Jodi
“And Jesus, when he came out, saw much people, and was moved with compassion toward them,
because they were as sheep not having a shepherd: and he began to teach them many things.” (Mark 6:34)Ed J, you can be a LAMB and be a SHEPHERD AT THE SAME TIME.
No Jodi
“And Jesus, when he came out, saw much people, and was moved with compassion toward them,
because they were as sheep not having a shepherd: and he began to teach them many things.” (Mark 6:34)Once again Jodi you are proved wrong. So when are you going to change your view?
Proclaimer and Edj……Jodi is apsolutelty right, need proof?…..
John 1:29….The next day John sees Jesus comming unto him, and says, Behold the “Lamb of God” Which takes away the sin of the world.
John 1: 36…..AND looking upon Jesus as he walked, he said, “Behold the Lamb of God”.
If that is not enough for you unblevers, here is more, Rev 7:17, Rev 14:10, Rev 15:3, Rev 19:9, Rev 21:22, Rev 21:23, Rev 22:1, Rev 22:3
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Ed J, you can be a LAMB and be a SHEPHERD AT THE SAME TIME.
No Jodi
“And Jesus, when he came out, saw much people, and was moved with compassion toward them,
because they were as sheep not having a shepherd: and he began to teach them many things.” (Mark 6:34)Proclaimer and Edj……Jodi is apsolutelty right
Hi Gene,
Are you going to believe Jodi over what Jesus said in Mark 6:34?
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