Jesus said

[Wispring]

Hi Everyone,
  The title of this thread is “Jesus said”. The purpose and scope of this thread is to discuss scripture that soley dilineates what Jesus said. The body of this thread wil be to discuss the things Jesus said and how they directly effect your life and do postive works within your life. I started this thread with the hope, that by discussing these things we could build community through revelatory discourse. “What does this mean to me?” and sharing these thoughts to come to mutual understandings of one anothers “points of view” thereby informing each of us that different understandings don't have to create discord. They can with God's love as our guide create harmony. I would like to do this within a logical framework of starting Matthew 3:15 and progressing forward from there. It would be wonderful if you say what it means to you in your heart. You can cite sources outside yourself that you are in agreement with. If you choose to cite outside sources to illuminate your understanding please give a “link” in your post so others can check it out for themselves. It would probably be best if we do not get into side discussions involving the veracity of outside sources. Just let it be said “This source reflects the view I hold dear in my heart” or some such sentiment. There will be disagreements, this is human nature. Use the disagreements to spawn another thread. Debating interpretations is not the purpose of this thread. Presenting interpretations is; in order to foster understanding. Please refrain from integrating the Trin/Non-Trin, pre-existance or the body of other threads if you can. If by divine or non-divine incidence everyone agrees to a certain segment of scriptures give glory to God, then, lets move forward.OK? I would like to use the KJV and Young's Literal Translation versions of the bible. I feel that KJV is used by most and the YLT is, well..most literal. If you decide to show your understanding based on another version and if that interpretation is in strong discord with KJV and/or YLT that in itself is cause for another thread. This is my initial concept and approach to this thread. If you feel I should amend or append anything herein, please post it, as I want this to an honest and fair framework of community interaction.

                                         With Love and Respect,
                                                 Wispring

[Wispring]

Hi Everyone,

Quote

Matthew 3:15 (King James Version) 15And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

To me Jesus is saying to John to fulfil all righteosness Jesus has to set the example of undergoing the repentence process. To be an example so to speck and do it in public to be witnessed by others.

With Love and Respect,
Wispring

[karmarie]

People's New Testament

The term now implies that the relation of Jesus to his work made it proper that now he should be baptized. It is true that baptism was for sinners; Jesus was sinless; but he humbled himself, accepted the burden of human duties, and must set a perfect example to men.

From here

http://bible.cc/matthew/3-15.htm

Agrees with that understanding.

[seekingtruth]

Wispring,
Good format, I believe these verses are foundational to any discussion.

Quote

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

I apologize for being slightly out of order from what you had requested but this is one of the things Jesus said that should be kept in mind as we contemplate how we will respond to posts we may not agree with.

My opinion – Wm

[Wispring]

Hi seekingtruth,
That is a wonderful and appropriate verse to post to help infuse the tenor of this thread.:)
No apology needed. So what is in your own words your understanding of Matthew 3:15?

With Love and Repsect,
Wispring

[Wispring]

Hi Kamarie,
Thanks for the link to a very nice and well appointed bible study website!

With Love and Respect,
Wispring

[mikeboll64]

Hi Wispring,

This is a wonderful idea for a thread.  I love it!

I am clueless as to why John would have had to baptize Jesus for him to receive the anointing of Holy Spirit.  God apparently anointed Moses with Holy Spirit without the use of baptism.

Any thoughts as to why God couldn't just “slap” the anointing on Jesus without using John?  I'm sure it has something to do with the prophecy about the one calling out in the wilderness, but that's all I can come up with so far.

Wispring's understanding of Jesus publically showing the way of repentence makes perfect sense to me.

mike

[seekingtruth]

Wispring,
My understanding is that Jesus did this by way of an example, not out of necessity. Just like washing feet He leads us to truths by example. The truth I believe He was portraying for us was obedience in all things.

My opinion – Wm

[Lightenup]

Hi William,
I agree that He was baptized in order to be an example…also to fulfill prophecy.

Good thread Wispring!

[Baker]

Wm and Kathie!  I agree with that too.  Jesus is the perfect example to go by.

Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:  

Jesus not only gave us a New Commandment, but also we now are under the New Covenant, which is under Jesus Blood.

Luk 22:20   Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup [is] the new covenant in my blood, which is shed for you.

Jesus was obedient to even die on the cross for all.  This to me is the best I can describe to others what Jesus did for us, how great He was, to also love so much that he came to die for all. he came to do the will of His father who send Him.
Jhn 6:38   For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.  

God so loved the World, God so loved the World that He gave His only beloved Son, that soever believeth, believeth in Him, will not perish, will not perish, but have everlasting life.  
God so loved the world……..

Peace and Love Irene

[Wispring]

Hi Mike,

Quote

Any thoughts as to why God couldn't just “slap” the anointing on Jesus without using John?  I'm sure it has something to do with the prophecy about the one calling out in the wilderness, but that's all I can come up with so far.

  I would like to share a few thoughts. Given the potency, power and glory that God has I don't see any reason why he couldn't “slap an anointing” to anyone at any time for his own good pleasure. As to John's involvement with the event I reference this scripture.

Quote

John 1:32-34 (King James Version) 32And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

  God actually told John that he would be involved in the event. I believe if it was an anointing event the word anointing would have been used to clarify it as such.

With Love and Respect,
Wispring

[Wispring]

Hi seekingtruth, Lightenup and Irene,
  Thank you for sharing your understanding of Matthew 3:15! I am going to wait a bit and hopefully the regular visitors to this web-site like WorshipingJesus, Paladin, KangarooJack, SimplyForgiven and others whose “internet names” or personal names I don't recall at this moment will take the opportunity to post in this thread.

                                       With Love and Respect,
                                              Wispring

[mikeboll64]

Hi Wispring,

I concur with your and Wm's understanding. But you do know that Jesus was “anointed” with Holy Spirit when he was baptized, right? (Acts 10:38)

Also, I think it is good to wait. I thought maybe you could post the next scriptures one per week. That gives everyone a chance to speak out about Jesus' “quote of the week”.

But it's your thread, do it like you want to.

mike

[terraricca]

All

Mt 3:14 But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”
Mt 3:15 Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented.
Mt 3:16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him.
Mt 3:17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

Isa 42:1 “Here is my servant, whom I uphold,
my chosen one in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him
and he will bring justice to the nations.
Isa 42:2 He will not shout or cry out,
or raise his voice in the streets.
Isa 42:3 A bruised reed he will not break,
and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out.
In faithfulness he will bring forth justice;
Isa 42:4 he will not falter or be discouraged
till he establishes justice on earth.
In his law the islands will put their hope.”

Jesus says;“Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness;;;
the time for the fulfilling of Gods word was now there and so it was to be now done,and so it was. righteousness it the will of God because only God is righteous in his way and will ,we only can to copy the will and act on it to become righteous.

this is why we as individuals are all islands and put our faith in Gods anointed one.

Pierre

[Wispring]

Hi Everyone,
  A week sounds good to me. It is a reasonable time frame. I will go ahead with the format of “quote of the week” unless anyone has strong reason to do otherwize. If you do have strong reasons, please pm me with them. I really would not like to clutter this thread with such communications.

                        With Love and Respect,
                                  Wispring

p.s. Thank you Pierre for posting your understanding to this thread.

[Wispring]

Hi Mike,
  My understanding of the of word “annointed” is consecrated or set aside for a holy purpose or service. In the OT priests, prophets, and kings were anointed. There is also a healing ritual using anointed oils.
  This in contrast with baptized with the Holy Spirt which is a divine process of receiving the spirit of God.
Jesus is the “anointed one” of prophesy. Set aside for Gods' purpose and service of bringing us the new testament and covanantResearch on the Greek word used. This to my mind clearly shows Jesus was anointed in prophesy. It could easily be said that johns baptism was the physicaly apparent manifestation of Jesus anointment to begin the public phase of his life's mission from God.

Quote

Matthew 3:17 (King James Version) 17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

  The voice from heaven being the physical manifestation. We are not told how many heard. It is evident someone(s) heard. Soon after this is when Jesus started preaching, gathering disciples, so forth.

                                               With Love and Respect,
                                                        Wispring

[GeneBalthrop]

Wispring……..There to me was two thing taking place there, Jesus said they were to fulfill (ALL) righteousness. the Old testament requires any man who was Going before GOD to be ceremonially cleansed (physically) and that is what Baptism was for, it was a ceremonial  cleansing  required by God,  and the other part of Full filling all righteousness was receiving of the Spirit of GOD which he recieve then in (full) measure. Both the baptism and the Anointing of the Spirit of God fulfilled (ALL) the righteous requirements of GOD. At that Point Jesus became a begotten Son of GOD. And he was sent after he was tested 40 days in the wilderness, into the world to preach the gospel of the kingdom of God.  I believe the scripture that says “THOU ART MY SON, (THIS DAY), I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU ” is referencing this time When Jesus was Baptized and recieved the Holy Spirit making him a begotten son of GOD . IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene

[Wispring]

Hi Gene,
  How are you doing fellow? I can easily understand that in order to fulfill all righteousness Jesus being cleansed in accordance with Mosaic law is what is going on here since the Mosaic law is what is in force during the time frame of this event. Also since John's baptism was a baptism of repentance and returning to God, that Jesus, even though sinless, was showing in all righteousness how the process goes. What I am not understanding is the Anointing of the Spirit of God phrase you have in your post. Please see my previous post for a definition of anoint and baptize. If you believe I am in error, please show me. I spent a of couple hours researching those 2 terms before posting. I am confident that I am accurate. However if I am not I am humble enought to be educated with respect to meanings of these 2 words.

                                         With Love and Respect,
                                                 Wispring

[Tim Kraft]

God bless all. Great thread. I believe John and Jesus both had the holy spirit from birth. We are all infused with the breath/spirit/word of God from birth. Johns baptism was not a baptism of the holy spirit. Johns baptism with physical water was totally symbolic. Its purpose was to help the people visualize their sin being washed away(the remission of sin) dying and resurrecting or being reborn into a new way

of thinking. John said “repent” or turn around from the old way to God you were attempting. John said the true baptism of Gods spirit was about to come. John said the the one who sent him to baptize told him that he would see a sign reveal the one who gives the spirit. It was like a dove that landed on Jesus and I think only John saw it.

IMO, Jesus entire mission on earth was to fulfill all things prophisied by the Law of Moses, the prophets and the Psalms (Luke23:44) and establish the New Covenant of God. Everything was fulfilled by Jesus. He established the Kingdom of God within each person and gave the words/spirit of God to mankind without measure. The spiritual building blocks are the words of God through Jesus who is the foundation,

the corner stone and the capstone of the spiritual house of God, INSIDED EACH ACCEPTING HUMAN BEING! Jesus baptised with the Holy Ghost and Fire!! The Holy Spirit is for believers and the fire is for non-believers that reject their salvation. The fire will burn away wrong thinking, evil, sin, unrighteousness and imperfection unto God. IMO, Blessing of peace to all, TK

[GeneBalthrop]

Wispring………I think what happened to Jesus is exactly what must happen to us, we must be Baptized with Holy Spirit and fire, Jesus was under the old covenant as all of Israel was , so the ceremonial cleansing was a requirement before presenting any person before GOD. And as Jesus we to must recieve the Holy Spirit from GOD also. Jesus has all Seven Spirit of GOD on him I do believe He did become the Son of GOD at that point of his life not at his berth because why would the Spirit descend on Him if he already had it, and why was he after that led by that Spirit into the wilderness to be tested. I believe GOD was not going to send him out into the world before he overcame and was tested . He was given a very intense Test He could not have lasted for 40 days and nights without water and food if the Spirit of GOD did not preserve him , and he was not led into that test until he had recieved the Holy Spirit of GOD, and IMO that is the point He became the SON of GOD , this is the Same with Us also, we become a Son or Daughter of GOD after we recieve His (SEED) the HOLY SPIRIT into us also. Jesus was and is and “EXACT” representation of Mankind being changed by the power of God into a Son of GOD. “thou art my son (THIS) day i have Begotten you”< he begot Jesus by impregnating him with HOLY Seed (Spirit) That day was when that took place IMO. Wisping that is just the way i see it at this time. Maybe Paladin can add some though to this thread.

Peace and love to you and yours……………………………………..gene

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