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Hi Tow,
Are you among those righteous ones?
So are the unrighteous not in this elite you refer to?
Respect for God and His Spirit and His teachings seem to be relevant.Righteousness among Gentiles is not a measure of how pious one is, but a matter of treatment to fellow man and not placing any god or idol before YHVH. The difference between Jews and Gentiles in G-d's eyes is the covenant from Mt. Sinai. Although they have failed on many occasions, the role of the Jews is to bring the knowledge of G-d to the world. One could argue, however, that if so many Jews had not been killed over the years that they could have accomplished much more due to sheer numbers.
You mistake me severely though. I have respect for G-d's teachings. Tell me, how does believing that G-d had men slaughter people or that miracles were supposedly performed improve my relationship with G-d? Do you believe in Jesus just because he did so many miracles? If so you must be a wicked man, looking for a sign. I don't need such signs. If you are looking for signs, then you are seeking someone warned against in Deu 13.
Isn't it amazing though that the world all knows about Judaism (but not the many mitzvot) and there are only 16 million Jews? Yet the Christians spend billions of $$ per year to spread their religion when all the Jews have had to do is exist.
Finally, as far as the righteous being among the 'elite', not so. Being righteous is just a matter of how you treat your fellow man, worship G-d, and help develop justice. That's what many of the mitzvot were about: justice among the people. That is why we have even secular laws today.
Christianity is much different. In order to be among the 'elite', one must believe in Jesus as lord of their life. The biggest problem with this is that such obedience detracts from YHVH. In Tanakh, there is no indication whatsoever that King Messiah was coming for people to give complete obedience to. Only YHVH deserves this.
The other problem with being required to believe in Jesus AT ALL is that there really is no evidence that the Jesus of the Gt ever existed. We know G-d exists because we see Him in creation, but Jesus has no such claim to fame. The GT again degrades YHVH by saying Jesus shared in the creation, and once again, G-d does not share his glory. Only He is Creator G-d. To place Jesus along with YHVH is idolatry and spoken against multitudes of times in Tanakh.
So asking people to believe in Jesus as lord is asking them to believe in probable fiction so that they can be among some elite. Sadly, withing Christianity there are those who say you must be part of a certain denomination to narrow this down even further. All of the infighting in Christianity over who will be BMOC (Big Man on Campus) is really sad.
Hi Tow,
Is this your gospel?
It sounds like another futile and false one.
Be kind to man and do not worship any idols.
You do not even need to worship our God but just no idols?
The god who is impotent in your own bible may be such an idol.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2007,15:35) Hi Tow,
Is this your gospel?I do not have a gospel. I'm not like your Jesus or Paul.
Quote It sounds like another futile and false one. Another, like Jesus'?
Quote Be kind to man and do not worship any idols. That's basically the relationship that G-d had with mankind until the covenant on Mt. Sinai.
Quote You do not even need to worship our God but just no idols?
The god who is impotent in your own bible may be such an idol.
An impotent G-d created the universe? Doesn't sound impotent to me.An impotent god is one who messed up creating man, allowed a man in a red suit to usurp much of his power and hold sway over 3/4 of mankind (still to this day), had to copulate with a human to bring his son as a human sacrifice to make up for his mistakes, and then couldn't even succeed after this. So then this god sends a spirit which is supposed to bring his people together as one but again fails because his people are all running around believing so many different things about what he inspired men to write.
I dunno, my G-d seems ultimately potent compared to the god of Christianity.
Hi Tow,
The worship of man and his thoughts have always been the most popular religion.
You should stick with it and not abuse the sacred words that you do not accept as inspired.Hi Tow:
You say:
Quote There is a belief 'the world to come'. Judaism maintains that the righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come. Those who die will be resurrected when the true King Messiah comes and the world to come ('olam haba') will be here on the earth. What determines whether or not one is righteous? Are you one of the righeous? When the Messiah that await comes will he be a warriour like David. Will he bring peace to all nations through war or just how will he accomplish this?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2007,16:00) Hi Tow,
The worship of man and his thoughts have always been the most popular religion.
You should stick with it and not abuse the sacred words that you do not accept as inspired.
Again, you misrepresent me. You like that don't you? Is this why your religion confuses you so?I never once said that Tanakh was not in inspired. I'm just intellectual honest and realize that even when inspired, men write and accept things of their own nature rather than the nature of G-d.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2007,16:02) Hi Tow3,
The Spirit of God is often shown in the OT.
Do you deny the Spirit of God?
No, I just deny that the spirit of G-d inhabits Christians who cannot agree on much. How can the same spirit lead so many to all of the different interpretations?Quote (942767 @ Dec. 25 2007,16:38) Hi Tow: You say:
Quote There is a belief 'the world to come'. Judaism maintains that the righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come. Those who die will be resurrected when the true King Messiah comes and the world to come ('olam haba') will be here on the earth. What determines whether or not one is righteous?
G-d.
Quote Are you one of the righeous? I do not claim as much but I do what I can to honor G-d and look out for my fellow man. I constantly examine my life for faults that I prayerfully look to G-d to help me to change.
Quote When the Messiah that await comes will he be a warriour like David. Will he bring peace to all nations through war or just how will he accomplish this?
That is not entirely clear in Tanakh because the focus is on peace. We just know that G-d's chosen will be gathered back to Jerusalem and that all people will turn to them as spiritual guides.Hi Tow:
Quote Hi Tow: Quote
Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2007,16:04)
God was not cold for 4000 years. His plan for salvation of mankind from the consequence of sin was with Him from the beginning. The plan had to unfold. There were some from each generation who will be saved in the resurrection of God's people.So G-d, perfect and all-powerful, had to take 4000 years to formulate and carry out His plan? Are you sure we're speaking of the same G-d?
No, not to formulate his plan that was with Him from the beginning.
I note you left out the part about carrying out His plan.
Do you think a loving G-d would leave mankind without a savior for thousands of years?
God has forseen every thing from the beginning to the end. He has seen the end result. He forsaw the fall of Adam and Eve and he forsaw that all mankind would sin. He, God is our saviour working through man to redeem mankind. There was the judgment of the former world in the days of Noah and God delivering Noah and his family through the arc that he instructed Noah to build. Then there was Abraham through whom God promised he would bless all nations, and then there was Isaac the heir that God promised to Abraham in his old age through through whom God has said that Abraham's seed would be called. Then there was jacob and Esau. Jacob who became Israel from whom came the twelve tribes that were delivered from bondage to Pharoah in Egypt by Moses through whom God gave His eternal law to the Nation of Israel and then there was Caleb and Joshua through whom God took the nation of Israel into the promised land (this is symbolic of Jesus taking the nation of Israel into the promised land. The meaning of Joshua and Jesus is the same “Jehovah is salvation”) Then there was king David through whom the promised Messiah was to come, and king Solomon who built the temple. And then there was the division of the Nation of Israel, the ten tribes, and Judah and Benjamin, and then the Babylonian captivity, and then the deliverance of the remnant of the Nation of Israel from the Babylonian captivity and during this time period there was no King of the throne of David until Jesus the promised Messiah who gave is life as a sacrifice for the sins of the world, the sins of those who were striving to obey God prior to his coming, and those who come to God by faith with a repentant heart through him since his coming, and he is now at the right hand of God and will reign for ever more, and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
And so do you see, how God's plan for the salvation of mankind from the consequence of sin was unfolding from the beginning.
And you say:
Quote Which one are you talking about though, YHVH or Jesus' father? As I have stated there is but “ONE GOD” and His Spirit within me testifies that He is a reality and that His testimony regarding His Son and His Christ, Jesus is true.
Hi Tow,
Care for His teachings and respect for His works would be something to work on.
He does not want lukewarm and disrespectful unrighteous men.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2007,17:27) Hi Tow,
Care for His teachings and respect for His works would be something to work on.
He does not want lukewarm and disrespectful unrighteous men.
What makes you think you are righteous? Because you believe in a dead man who did not fulfill prophecies?Quote (942767 @ Dec. 25 2007,17:23) Hi Tow: Quote Hi Tow: Quote
Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2007,16:04)
God was not cold for 4000 years. His plan for salvation of mankind from the consequence of sin was with Him from the beginning. The plan had to unfold. There were some from each generation who will be saved in the resurrection of God's people.So G-d, perfect and all-powerful, had to take 4000 years to formulate and carry out His plan? Are you sure we're speaking of the same G-d?
No, not to formulate his plan that was with Him from the beginning.
I note you left out the part about carrying out His plan.
Do you think a loving G-d would leave mankind without a savior for thousands of years?
God has forseen every thing from the beginning to the end. He has seen the end result. He forsaw the fall of Adam and Eve and he forsaw that all mankind would sin.
Yes, but this was not the fall of mankind. G-d created us with a free will. What happened to Adam and Even is an example of choosing wrong over right. It did not lead to any other fall except their very own. The Tanakh is very precise that each person is responsible for his/her own decisions.
Quote He, God is our saviour working through man to redeem mankind. There was the judgment of the former world in the days of Noah and God delivering Noah and his family through the arc that he instructed Noah to build. Then there was Abraham through whom God promised he would bless all nations, and then there was Isaac the heir that God promised to Abraham in his old age through through whom God has said that Abraham's seed would be called. Then there was jacob and Esau. Jacob who became Israel from whom came the twelve tribes that were delivered from bondage to Pharoah in Egypt by Moses through whom God gave His eternal law to the Nation of Israel and then there was Caleb and Joshua through whom God took the nation of Israel into the promised land (this is symbolic of Jesus taking the nation of Israel into the promised land. The meaning of Joshua and Jesus is the same “Jehovah is salvation”) So Joshua and Caleb were only symbolic stories and Jesus was literal? Seriously, Christians try to make every passage in the Tanakh about Jesus through any obscure method possible.
Quote Then there was king David through whom the promised Messiah was to come, and king Solomon who built the temple. And then there was the division of the Nation of Israel, the ten tribes, and Judah and Benjamin, and then the Babylonian captivity, and then the deliverance of the remnant of the Nation of Israel from the Babylonian captivity and during this time period there was no King of the throne of David until Jesus the promised Messiah who gave is life as a sacrifice for the sins of the world, the sins of those who were striving to obey God prior to his coming, and those who come to God by faith with a repentant heart through him since his coming, and he is now at the right hand of God and will reign for ever more, and he will come to judge the living and the dead. You were doing pretty good until this but i knew it was coming. Jesus did not have the lineage and what was given was through a cursed bloodline. Plus, he was never anointed as king, and was never accepted as king of Israel. The only person who ever acknowledge kingship about hims was Pilate and he did it in a mocking gesture to show the fate of those who would be king under Roman rule. Death by crucifixion.
Quote And so do you see, how God's plan for the salvation of mankind from the consequence of sin was unfolding from the beginning. And you say:
Quote Which one are you talking about though, YHVH or Jesus' father? As I have stated there is but “ONE GOD” and His Spirit within me testifies that He is a reality and that His testimony regarding His Son and His Christ, Jesus is true.
Again, the spirit within you is supposedly also in 2.1 billion other people. Yet this same spirit has led to thousands of different denominations when your GT says that Jesus' followers would all be one as he and his father were one. So by saying that Christians, having the same spirit, are not one, you are implying that the relationship that Jesus had with his father was unsure, splintered, and confused.Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 26 2007,10:34) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2007,17:27) Hi Tow,
Care for His teachings and respect for His works would be something to work on.
He does not want lukewarm and disrespectful unrighteous men.
What makes you think you are righteous? Because you believe in a dead man who did not fulfill prophecies?
Hi Tow,
I have no righteousness of my own, but you do?Nope, never said I did. Just another thing I've told you on more than one occasion but your seem to forget. Yet you think you do have righteousness through a dead man, something totally foreign to Tanakh.
Hi Tow,
If you have no rightoeusness at all but remain in your sin how can you consider approaching God?Hi Tow:
Quote Quote (942767 @ Dec. 25 2007,16:38)
Hi Tow:You say:
Quote
There is a belief 'the world to come'. Judaism maintains that the righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come. Those who die will be resurrected when the true King Messiah comes and the world to come ('olam haba') will be here on the earth.What determines whether or not one is righteous?
G-d.
I didn't say who. I said “what” determines whether or not one is righteous.
You say:
Quote Quote
Are you one of the righeous?I do not claim as much but I do what I can to honor G-d and look out for my fellow man. I constantly examine my life for faults that I prayerfully look to G-d to help me to change.
That is good that you seeking God's help to change. You must then be admitting that you are a sinner?
You say:
Quote When the Messiah that await comes will he be a warriour like David. Will he bring peace to all nations through war or just how will he accomplish this? That is not entirely clear in Tanakh because the focus is on peace. We just know that G-d's chosen will be gathered back to Jerusalem and that all people will turn to them as spiritual guides.
It seems then that the chosen ones are the important ones here in achieving the peace. What is the purpose of the Messiah that you await. War has not brought peace in the world to date(Just look at what is happening with the Israeli, Palestinian conflict. One strikes, and the other retaliates etc. It is a never ending cycle) and through war peace will never be attained.
Hi Tow:
You say:
Quote Yes, but this was not the fall of mankind. G-d created us with a free will. What happened to Adam and Even is an example of choosing wrong over right. It did not lead to any other fall except their very own. The Tanakh is very precise that each person is responsible for his/her own decisions. I agree with you on this. I don't adhere to the doctrine of “orginal sin”.
Quote Quote
Then there was king David through whom the promised Messiah was to come, and king Solomon who built the temple. And then there was the division of the Nation of Israel, the ten tribes, and Judah and Benjamin, and then the Babylonian captivity, and then the deliverance of the remnant of the Nation of Israel from the Babylonian captivity and during this time period there was no King of the throne of David until Jesus the promised Messiah who gave is life as a sacrifice for the sins of the world, the sins of those who were striving to obey God prior to his coming, and those who come to God by faith with a repentant heart through him since his coming, and he is now at the right hand of God and will reign for ever more, and he will come to judge the living and the dead.You were doing pretty good until this but i knew it was coming. Jesus did not have the lineage and what was given was through a cursed bloodline. Plus, he was never anointed as king, and was never accepted as king of Israel. The only person who ever acknowledge kingship about hims was Pilate and he did it in a mocking gesture to show the fate of those who would be king under Roman rule. Death by crucifixion.
God has accepted him as King and High Priest. Is that sufficient?
You say:
To whom does the following Psalm refer?
Quote Psalm 110 1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. 2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. 3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. 4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath. 6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many F324 countries. 7 He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.
Quote Again, the spirit within you is supposedly also in 2.1 billion other people. Yet this same spirit has led to thousands of different denominations when your GT says that Jesus' followers would all be one as he and his father were one. So by saying that Christians, having the same spirit, are not one, you are implying that the relationship that Jesus had with his father was unsure, splintered, and confused. This has happened because Christians have failed to discuss their differences. Instead when one had an understanding that differed from others he went and formed his own denomination. And granted, this does not look good for Christianity. Jesus in John 17 prayed that we would be “one”, and I do believe that we will be “one”. The 144,000 in the book of Revelation are those who have not been defiled by false doctrine and it is through them that the Christian church will be brought into unity and maturity, and then the Lord will come for the church.
I could also go out and form my own denomination, but I don't because I am awaiting the anointing that God has promised. It is through that anointing that God will bring the church into unity. This denomination says I have the truth, and that denomination says I have the truth and you say you have the truth, but what matters is what God says is the truth, and what he confirms as such.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2007,18:37) Hi Tow,
If you have no rightoeusness at all but remain in your sin how can you consider approaching God?
You're pretty B&W aren't you? Its' all or nothing with you, huh? So…if you have one single sin, you're lost, right? No? Wait, you have little tolerance, so why should you tolerate a single sin in yourself? Face it Nick, you've sinned somewhere so you are going straight to hell.I am human, you are human. You claim that our difference is believing in fiction. Therefore, you ASSUME you are heaven bound while I am not because you believe in something not supported by Tanakh.
I don't envy your selfish attitude.
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