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Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 22 2009,08:50) Hi BH and welcome,
What we believe does matter.
jn14
1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Actually, let me restate that. I agree with you but what Paul has done is cause almost single handedly a shift away from those false gods long ago. Consider the Roman catholic church one can obviously see the vestiges of all sorts of paganism on one hand but on the other hand it has caused Christianity to endure to be rediscovered and re-explored. There would be no protestants, Jehovah's witnessess, Seventh Day adventists, Born again movement etc…. without this monolith of Christianity.As strange as it may seem it is it's very corruption that has caused its development in the same way that pure Judaism has caused Judaism to decline.
The more who have access the more through faith and study can come to the knowledge of the truth. In this forum we are discussing Christ and OUR FATHER GOD if it had not been for paul we might be discussing Isis, Apollo, Diana, Fotuna etc….
So instead we get a long term gain for a short term loss. God is the best of planners!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 22 2009,09:14) Hi BH,
In saying this Jesus showed he was not God.
Yes, I know but most choose to ignore what “also” means.Hi bodhitharta :
I believe that you are misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul is saying in the verse of scripture that you quoted from Romans. Perhaps posting these scriptures in context from a few different translations will help you to understand what he is saying:
Here are the scriptures from the NIV:
Quote Rom 3:1 What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? Rom 3:2 Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God.
Rom 3:3 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness?
Rom 3:4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.” [fn]
Rom 3:5 But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.)
Rom 3:6 Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world?
Rom 3:7 Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?”
Rom 3:8 Why not say-as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say-“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is deserved.
Rom 3:9 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better [fn]? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.
Rom 3:10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;
And from the New Living Transaltion:
Quote Rom 3:1 Then what's the advantage of being a Jew? Is there any value in the Jewish ceremony of circumcision? Rom 3:2 Yes, being a Jew has many advantages. First of all, the Jews were entrusted with the whole revelation of God. [fn]
Rom 3:3 True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they broke their promises, does that mean God will break his promises?
Rom 3:4 Of course not! Though everyone else in the world is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say, “He will be proved right in what he says, and he will win his case in court.” [fn]
Rom 3:5 “But,” some say, “our sins serve a good purpose, for people will see God's goodness when he declares us sinners to be innocent. Isn't it unfair, then, for God to punish us?” (That is actually the way some people talk.)
Rom 3:6 Of course not! If God is not just, how is he qualified to judge the world?
Rom 3:7 “But,” some might still argue, “how can God judge and condemn me as a sinner if my dishonesty highlights his truthfulness and brings him more glory?”
Rom 3:8 If you follow that kind of thinking, however, you might as well say that the more we sin the better it is! Those who say such things deserve to be condemned, yet some slander me by saying this is what I preach!
Rom 3:9 Well then, are we Jews better than others? [fn] No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, are under the power of sin.
Rom 3:10 As the Scriptures say, “No one is good– not even one.
Rom 3:11 No one has real understanding; no one is seeking God.
Rom 3:12 All have turned away from God; all have gone wrong. No one does good, not even one.”
I hope this helps.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Nick Hassan @ April 22 2009,09:33) Hi BD,
Let the whore and her daughters decline unto extinction.
She is a stench unto our holy God
The Parable of the Weeds
24He put another parable before them, saying, (AK) “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field, 25but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds[c] among the wheat and went away. 26So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also. 27And the servants[d] of the master of the house came and said to him, 'Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?' 28He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' So the servants said to him, 'Then do you want us to go and gather them?' 29But he said,(AL) 'No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers,(AM) Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.'”Quote (942767 @ April 22 2009,09:40) Hi bodhitharta : I believe that you are misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul is saying in the verse of scripture that you quoted from Romans. Perhaps posting these scriptures in context from a few different translations will help you to understand what he is saying:
Here are the scriptures from the NIV:
Quote Rom 3:1 What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? Rom 3:2 Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God.
Rom 3:3 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness?
Rom 3:4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.” [fn]
Rom 3:5 But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.)
Rom 3:6 Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world?
Rom 3:7 Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?”
Rom 3:8 Why not say-as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say-“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is deserved.
Rom 3:9 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better [fn]? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.
Rom 3:10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;
And from the New Living Transaltion:
Quote Rom 3:1 Then what's the advantage of being a Jew? Is there any value in the Jewish ceremony of circumcision? Rom 3:2 Yes, being a Jew has many advantages. First of all, the Jews were entrusted with the whole revelation of God. [fn]
Rom 3:3 True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they broke their promises, does that mean God will break his promises?
Rom 3:4 Of course not! Though everyone else in the world is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say, “He will be proved right in what he says, and he will win his case in court.” [fn]
Rom 3:5 “But,” some say, “our sins serve a good purpose, for people will see God's goodness when he declares us sinners to be innocent. Isn't it unfair, then, for God to punish us?” (That is actually the way some people talk.)
Rom 3:6 Of course not! If God is not just, how is he qualified to judge the world?
Rom 3:7 “But,” some might still argue, “how can God judge and condemn me as a sinner if my dishonesty highlights his truthfulness and brings him more glory?”
Rom 3:8 If you follow that kind of thinking, however, you might as well say that the more we sin the better it is! Those who say such things deserve to be condemned, yet some slander me by saying this is what I preach!
Rom 3:9 Well then, are we Jews better than others? [fn] No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, are under the power of sin.
Rom 3:10 As the Scriptures say, “No one is good– not even one.
Rom 3:11 No one has real understanding; no one is seeking God.
Rom 3:12 All have turned away from God; all have gone wrong. No one does good, not even one.”
I hope this helps.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Romans 3:7 (Young's Literal Translation)7for if the truth of God in my falsehood did more abound to His glory, why yet am I also as a sinner judged?
How is it that the literal translation disagrees with the 2 you have chosen? It's because the translations you chose have added meaning and quotation where none was.
even the two versions you have used disagree in places but I have already stated that men have been altering the bible to suit them that is why I try usually to stick to the bibles that have been used for the past 400 years as they were not as easy to tamper with as they are now.
You assumed my versions were somehow incorrect because you didn't want to accept what I was saying but even if you don't believe what I was saying it is not hidden that Paul preached a different Gospel than Jesus and it is no mystery that Jesus turned his gospel over to Peter and it is no mystery that Paul preached to the gentiles in whatever way he could to win them over.
1 Corinthians 9:21-23 (New International Version)
21To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. 22To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.1 Corinthians 9:21-23 (New Living Translation)
21 When I am with the Gentiles who do not follow the Jewish law,[a] I too live apart from that law so I can bring them to Christ. But I do not ignore the law of God; I obey the law of Christ.22 When I am with those who are weak, I share their weakness, for I want to bring the weak to Christ. Yes, I try to find common ground with everyone, doing everything I can to save some. 23 I do everything to spread the Good News and share in its blessings.
Now these verses are from the bibles of your choice, would you like more examples.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 22 2009,09:55) Hi BT,
Indeed ,
One will be taken and one left as the angels harvest the field.
Amen!Quote (Gene @ April 19 2009,20:36) thinker……….It says when he brings his son (again) into the world, that hasn't happened yet. Jesus will have the seven horns and the seven eyes which are the seven spirits of God on Him when he comes again into the world. He will operate with the full capacity of GOD the FATHER at that time, until the thousand years are over, then the Kingdom will be turned over to GOD the FATHER, and He himself will become subject to the FATHER who gave him the power in the first place. IMO love and peace to you and yours………………………………gene
Gene,
The text says that when the firstborn is brought “again” into the world all the angels of God will worship Him. (v. 6-7). So this must be BEFORE he yields the kingdom because at that time the Son becomes a subject Himself.thinker
Kerwin wrote:
Quote All God's servant's,including the angels, bear God's name so you might want to consider interpreting that passage from Hebrews a bit differently. Name being authority and Jesus having more authority than the angels. Kerwin,
You have rendered Paul's words meaningless,Quote At the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE should bow Since all God's servants bear God's name in the same sense as Jesus then we are not required to bow the knee.
thinker
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 22 2009,10:17) Quote (942767 @ April 22 2009,09:40) Hi bodhitharta : I believe that you are misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul is saying in the verse of scripture that you quoted from Romans. Perhaps posting these scriptures in context from a few different translations will help you to understand what he is saying:
Here are the scriptures from the NIV:
Quote Rom 3:1 What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? Rom 3:2 Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God.
Rom 3:3 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness?
Rom 3:4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.” [fn]
Rom 3:5 But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.)
Rom 3:6 Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world?
Rom 3:7 Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?”
Rom 3:8 Why not say-as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say-“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is deserved.
Rom 3:9 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better [fn]? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.
Rom 3:10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;
And from the New Living Transaltion:
Quote Rom 3:1 Then what's the advantage of being a Jew? Is there any value in the Jewish ceremony of circumcision? Rom 3:2 Yes, being a Jew has many advantages. First of all, the Jews were entrusted with the whole revelation of God. [fn]
Rom 3:3 True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they broke their promises, does that mean God will break his promises?
Rom 3:4 Of course not! Though everyone else in the world is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say, “He will be proved right in what he says, and he will win his case in court.” [fn]
Rom 3:5 “But,” some say, “our sins serve a good purpose, for people will see God's goodness when he declares us sinners to be innocent. Isn't it unfair, then, for God to punish us?” (That is actually the way some people talk.)
Rom 3:6 Of course not! If God is not just, how is he qualified to judge the world?
Rom 3:7 “But,” some might still argue, “how can God judge and condemn me as a sinner if my dishonesty highlights his truthfulness and brings him more glory?”
Rom 3:8 If you follow that kind of thinking, however, you might as well say that the more we sin the better it is! Those who say such things deserve to be condemned, yet some slander me by saying this is what I preach!
Rom 3:9 Well then, are we Jews better than others? [fn] No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, are under the power of sin.
Rom 3:10 As the Scriptures say, “No one is good– not even one.
Rom 3:11 No one has real understanding; no one is seeking God.
Rom 3:12 All have turned away from God; all have gone wrong. No one does good, not even one.”
I hope this helps.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Romans 3:7 (Young's Literal Translation)7for if the truth of God in my falsehood did more abound to His glory, why yet am I also as a sinner judged?
How is it that the literal translation disagrees with the 2 you have chosen? It's because the translations you chose have added meaning and quotation where none was.
even the two versions you have used disagree in places but I have already stated that men have been altering the bible to suit them that is why I try usually to stick to the bibles that have been used for the past 400 years as they were not as easy to tamper with as they are now.
You assumed my versions were somehow incorrect because you didn't want to accept what I was saying but even if you don't believe what I was saying it is not hidden that Paul preached a different Gospel than Jesus and it is no mystery that Jesus turned his gospel over to Peter and it is no mystery that Paul preached to the gentiles in whatever way he could to win them over.
1 Corinthians 9:21-23 (New International Version)
21To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. 22To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.1 Corinthians 9:21-23 (New Living Translation)
21 When I am with the Gentiles who do not follow the Jewish law,[a] I too live apart from that law so I can bring them to Christ. But I do not ignore the law of God; I obey the law of Christ.22 When I am with those who are weak, I share their weakness, for I want to bring the weak to Christ. Yes, I try to find common ground with everyone, doing everything I can to save some. 23 I do everything to spread the Good News and share in its blessings.
Now these verses are from the bibles of your choice, would you like more examples.
OK bodhitharta:Have it your way, but I believe that you are misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul is saying by taking a verse of scripture out of context.
There is no way possible that you have made a mistake?
Love in Christ,
MartyDoesn't a light shinning in the darkness appear to be brighter because of the darkness? Then why should the darkness be blamed for being dark as it emphasizes the glory of the light? So how does God answer my question through His servant Paul in Romans 3?
Hi KW,
Why philosophise?
Matthew 6:23
But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Why philosophize?
Because God did through Paul in Romans 3. That is what I was addressing. In fact I just said the same thing using different words.
Quote (942767 @ April 22 2009,11:03) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 22 2009,10:17) Quote (942767 @ April 22 2009,09:40) Hi bodhitharta : I believe that you are misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul is saying in the verse of scripture that you quoted from Romans. Perhaps posting these scriptures in context from a few different translations will help you to understand what he is saying:
Here are the scriptures from the NIV:
Quote Rom 3:1 What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? Rom 3:2 Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God.
Rom 3:3 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness?
Rom 3:4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.” [fn]
Rom 3:5 But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.)
Rom 3:6 Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world?
Rom 3:7 Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?”
Rom 3:8 Why not say-as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say-“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is deserved.
Rom 3:9 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better [fn]? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.
Rom 3:10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;
And from the New Living Transaltion:
Quote Rom 3:1 Then what's the advantage of being a Jew? Is there any value in the Jewish ceremony of circumcision? Rom 3:2 Yes, being a Jew has many advantages. First of all, the Jews were entrusted with the whole revelation of God. [fn]
Rom 3:3 True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they broke their promises, does that mean God will break his promises?
Rom 3:4 Of course not! Though everyone else in the world is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say, “He will be proved right in what he says, and he will win his case in court.” [fn]
Rom 3:5 “But,” some say, “our sins serve a good purpose, for people will see God's goodness when he declares us sinners to be innocent. Isn't it unfair, then, for God to punish us?” (That is actually the way some people talk.)
Rom 3:6 Of course not! If God is not just, how is he qualified to judge the world?
Rom 3:7 “But,” some might still argue, “how can God judge and condemn me as a sinner if my dishonesty highlights his truthfulness and brings him more glory?”
Rom 3:8 If you follow that kind of thinking, however, you might as well say that the more we sin the better it is! Those who say such things deserve to be condemned, yet some slander me by saying this is what I preach!
Rom 3:9 Well then, are we Jews better than others? [fn] No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, are under the power of sin.
Rom 3:10 As the Scriptures say, “No one is good– not even one.
Rom 3:11 No one has real understanding; no one is seeking God.
Rom 3:12 All have turned away from God; all have gone wrong. No one does good, not even one.”
I hope this helps.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Romans 3:7 (Young's Literal Translation)7for if the truth of God in my falsehood did more abound to His glory, why yet am I also as a sinner judged?
How is it that the literal translation disagrees with the 2 you have chosen? It's because the translations you chose have added meaning and quotation where none was.
even the two versions you have used disagree in places but I have already stated that men have been altering the bible to suit them that is why I try usually to stick to the bibles that have been used for the past 400 years as they were not as easy to tamper with as they are now.
You assumed my versions were somehow incorrect because you didn't want to accept what I was saying but even if you don't believe what I was saying it is not hidden that Paul preached a different Gospel than Jesus and it is no mystery that Jesus turned his gospel over to Peter and it is no mystery that Paul preached to the gentiles in whatever way he could to win them over.
1 Corinthians 9:21-23 (New International Version)
21To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. 22To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.1 Corinthians 9:21-23 (New Living Translation)
21 When I am with the Gentiles who do not follow the Jewish law,[a] I too live apart from that law so I can bring them to Christ. But I do not ignore the law of God; I obey the law of Christ.22 When I am with those who are weak, I share their weakness, for I want to bring the weak to Christ. Yes, I try to find common ground with everyone, doing everything I can to save some. 23 I do everything to spread the Good News and share in its blessings.
Now these verses are from the bibles of your choice, would you like more examples.
OK bodhitharta:Have it your way, but I believe that you are misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul is saying by taking a verse of scripture out of context.
There is no way possible that you have made a mistake?
Love in Christ,
Marty
Why is it , that when I show you scripture you accuse me of making a statement?When I showed the scripture where Jesus says pertaining to The Father as The ONLY TRUE GOD how is it me saying it. Why is it that the words of Jesus being treated this way?
Many Christians will not even accept anything out the bible if it is not the King James authorized version but you dismiss it simply because you don't like what it said. I didn't say it Paul did.
I even provided you with another statement from Paul will you accuse me of saying something against Paul again by using Paul's statement I did use the bible of your choice this time is it time to switch to another one?
I'm being sarcastic and I do apologize for my tone but we are sharing ourselves here out of love and it's disturbing that you feel I want to b
eat up on my Spiritual predecessors.Quote (bodhitharta @ April 17 2009,16:43) Quote (epistemaniac @ April 17 2009,04:34) nope… Jesus DID NOT say that Quote THEE ONLY TRUE GOD if for no other reason than that Jesus did not speak Elizabethan English 😉
since the bible elsewhere says that Jesus is God, (Heb. 1:8; Titus 1:3-4, etc etc), then the Bible teaches a contradiction (polytheism) by insisting that there is only one true God, yet it also commands us to believe on Jesus who, being “god”, and who, if He is not the one true God, He must therefore be a false God, or you have the doctrine of the Trinity which resolves this issue by saying that God the Father and God the Son are one in essence, together with the Holy Spirit. One God, three in person..
Nowhere are the attributes of God assigned to mere human judges, so the comparison with the way that the word “god” is used of Jesus is not a comparison of like to like, but is instead apples to oranges. God does not require us to believe on the name of any human judge in order to be saved, nowhere does the bible say that any human judge was sinless, deserved to be worshiped with the worship due to God alone, nowhere do these judges claim for themselves the ability to forgive sins committed against God, nowhere did they ever claim the ability to raise themselves from the dead, nowhere do these human judges speak of being able to know the hearts of men, as it is of Jesus Christ… an attribute belonging to God alone… and on and on it could go…. this is an example of the type of fallacy in the other thread by the same OP called a faulty analogy…. “In an analogy, two objects (or events), A and B are shown to be similar. Then it is argued that since A has property P, so also B must have property P. An analogy fails when the two objects, A and B, are different in a way which affects whether they both have property P.”
Human judges are relevantly dissimilar, therefore just because human judges are called “god” and the same is said of Jesus, it does not follow that they are called “god” in the exact same way.
blessings,
ken
Thee or the is not the point ONLY and TRUE is the point.Titus 1:3-4
4 To Titus, a true son in our common faith:Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ[a] our Savior.
Notice the scripture says GOD the Father and the “Lord” Jesus Christ.
Just so everyone here knows and understands the word Lord does not ever mean God it simply means Master or Owner or possesor just as those who rent apartments have Landlords
I hope you don't worship your landlord although being nice to them is a Godly thing to be.
consider that “God” means Supreme being then that being said The Father is The Most High in Supremity and there for the Onlu True Supreme Being.
apparently you are unaware that kyrios translates the name of God (Yahweh/Jehovah) in the LXX…. but I can't blame you for your ignorance, hopefully it does not continue… after the followng information is given to you, there is no exceuse for your ignorance to continue….(g) kyrios is the Sept. and NT representative of Heb. Jehovah ('Lord' in Eng. versions), see Matt. 4:7; Jas. 5:11, e.g., of adon, Lord, Matt. 22:44, and of Adonay, Lord, Matt. 1:22; it also occurs for Elohim, God, 1 Pet. 1:25.
“Thus the usage of the word in the NT follows two main lines: one– a-f, customary and general, the other, g, peculiar to the Jews, and drawn from the Greek translation of the OT.
“Christ Himself assumed the title, Matt. 7:21, 22; Matt. 9:38; Matt. 22:41-45; Mark 5:19 (cp. Psa. 66:16; the parallel passage, Luke 8:39, has 'God'); Luke 19:31; John 13:13, apparently intending it in the higher senses of its current use, and at the same time suggesting its OT associations.
“His purpose did not become clear to the disciples until after His resurrection, and the revelation of His Deity consequent thereon. Thomas, when he realized the significance of the presence of a mortal wound in the body of a living man, immediately joined with it the absolute title of Deity, saying, 'My Lord and my God,' John 20:28. Thereafter, except in Acts 10:4; Rev. 7:14, there is no record that kyrios was ever again used by believers in addressing any save God and the Lord Jesus; cp. Acts 2:47 with Acts 4:29, 30.
“How soon and how completely the lower meaning had been superseded is seen in Peter's declaration in his first sermon after the resurrection, 'God hath made Him, Lord,' Acts 2:36, and that in the house of Cornelius, 'He is Lord of all,' Acts 10:36; cp. Deut. 10:14; Matt. 11:25; Acts 17:24. In his writings the implications of his early teaching are confirmed and developed. Thus Psa. 34:8, 'O taste and see that Jehovah is good,' is applied to the Lord Jesus, 1 Pet. 2:3, and 'Jehovah of Hosts, Him shall ye sanctify,' Isa. 8:13, becomes 'sanctify in your hearts Christ as Lord,' 1 Pet. 3:15.
“So also James who uses kyrios alike of God, Jas. 1:7 (cp. Jas. 1:5); Jas. 3:9; Jas. 4:15; Jas. 5:4, 10, 11, and of the Lord Jesus, Jas. 1:1 (where the possibility that kai is intended epexegetically, i.e. = even, cp. 1 Thess. 3:11, should not be overlooked); Jas. 2:1 (lit., 'our Lord Jesus Christ of glory,' cp. Psa. 24:7; Psa. 29:3; Acts 7:2; 1 Cor. 2:8); 1 Cor. 5:7, 8, while the language of Jas. 4:10; Jas. 5:15, is equally applicable to either.
“Jude, Jude 1:4, speaks of 'our only–Lord, Jesus Christ,' and immediately, Jude 1:5, uses 'Lord' of God (see the remarkable marg. here), as he does later, Jude 1:9, 14.
“Paul ordinarily uses kyrios of the Lord Jesus, 1 Cor. 1:3, e.g., but also on occasion, of God, in quotations from the OT, 1 Cor. 3:20, e.g., and in his own words, 1 Cor. 3:5, cp. 1 Cor. 3:10. It is equally appropriate to either in 1 Cor. 7:25; 2 Cor. 3:16; 2 Cor. 8:21; 1 Thess. 4:6, and if 1 Cor. 11:32 is to be interpreted by 1 Cor. 10:21, 22, the Lord Jesus is intended, but if by Heb. 12:5-9, then kyrios here also = God. 1 Tim. 6:15, 16 is probably to be understood of the Lord Jesus, cp. Rev. 17:14.
“Though John does not use 'Lord' in his Epistles, and though, like the other Evangelists, he ordinarily uses the personal Name in his narrative, yet he occasionally speaks of Him as 'the Lord,' John 4:1; John 6:23; John 11:2; John 20:20; John 21:12.
“The full significance of this association of Jesus with God under the one appellation, 'Lord,' is seen when it is remembered that these men belonged to the only monotheistic race in the world. To associate with the Creator one known to be a creature, however exalted, though possible to Pagan philosophers, was quite impossible to a Jew.
“It is not recorded that in the days of His flesh any of His disciples either addressed the Lord, or spoke of Him, by His personal Name. Where Paul has occasion to refer to the facts of the Gospel history he speaks of what the Lord Jesus said, Acts 20:35, and did, 1 Cor. 11:23, and suffered, 1 Thess. 2:15; 1 Thess. 5:9, 10. It is our Lord Jesus who is coming, 1 Thess. 2:19, etc. In prayer also the title is given, 1 Thess. 3:11; Eph. 1:3; the sinner is invited to believe on the Lord Jesus, Acts 16:31; Acts 20:21, and the saint to look to the Lord Jesus for deliverance, Rom. 7:24, 25, and in the few excepti
onal cases in which the personal Name stands alone a reason is always discernible in the immediate context.
“The title 'Lord,' as given to the Savior, in its full significance rests upon the resurrection, Acts 2:36; Rom. 10:9; Rom. 14:9, and is realized only in the Holy Spirit, 1 Cor. 12:3.” * [* From Notes on Thessalonians, by Hogg and Vine, p. 25.]
—Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Wordsa landlord, well I am buying my house so I really don't have a “landlord” but…. in any case… a landlord is not my Lord, and that you would compare a landlord to my Lord and King Jesus Christ is nothing short of blasphemous…. hopefully now that you know the real ramifications of the term kyrios, you no longer have an excuse either for your ignorance or your cavalier blasphemous comparisons…
blessings,
kenQuote (kerwin @ April 22 2009,13:26) Nick Hassan wrote: Quote Why philosophize?
Because God did through Paul in Romans 3. That is what I was addressing. In fact I just said the same thing using different words.
Hi KW,
God is not of Philosophy.
It is of the foolish ways of men.
Colossians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.Quote (bodhitharta @ April 21 2009,17:12) Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 20 2009,18:49) Bodhitharta, bearing in mind that YHWH evidently entrusted the writing of the New Testament to these men, do you think you have a better handle on the interpretation of Old Testament passages than them?
Did you assume that everything Bound is inspired even when I showed you earlier in this thread that Paul confessess that he will lie or do whatever neccessary to bring people to Christ. Do you think that is the inspired word of God?So I ask you out of all the material Paul wrote, which of it is the lies he spoke of.
That's why I stick to What Jesus said.
Did you not know that some bibles have a different amount of books contained in them?
The Complete Bible: Why Catholics Have Seven More Books
ISSUE: Catholic Bibles contain seven more Old Testament (46) books than Protestant Bibles (39). Catholics refer to these seven books as the “deuterocanon”[1] (second canon), while Protestants refer to them as “apocrypha,” a term used pejoratively to describe non-canonical books. Protestants also have shorter versions of Daniel and Esther. Why are there differences?
RESPONSE: Catholic Bibles contain all the books that have been traditionally accepted by Christians since Jesus’ time. Protestant Bibles contain all those books, except those rejected by the Protestant Reformers in the 1500’s. The chief reason Protestants rejected these biblical books was because they did not support Protestant doctrines, for example, 2 Maccabees supports prayer for the dead.[2] The term “canon” means rule or guideline, and in this context means “which books belong in the Bible (and, by implication, which do not).”
The Catholic Old Testament follows the Alexandrian canon of the Septuagint,[3] the Old Testament which was translated into Greek around 250 B.C. The Protestant Reformers follows the Palestinian canon[4] of Scripture (39 books), which was not officially recognized by Jews until around 100 A.D.
DISCUSSION: Prior to Jesus’ time, the Jews did not have a sharply defined, universal canon of Scripture. Some groups of Jews used only the first five books of the Old Testament (the Pentateuch); some used only the Palestinian canon (39 books); some used the Alexandrian canon (46 books), and some, like the Dead Sea community, used all these and more. The Palestinian and Alexandrian canons were more normative than the others, having wider acceptance among orthodox Jews, but for Jews there was no universally defined canon to include or exclude the “deuterocanonical” books around 100 A.D.
The Apostles commissioned by Jesus,[5] however, used the Septuagint (the Old Testament in Greek which contained the Alexandrian canon) most of the time and must have accepted the Alexandrian canon. For example, 86 percent of Old Testament quotes in the Greek New Testament come directly from the Septuagint, not to mention numerous linguistic references. Acts 7 provides an interesting piece of evidence that justifies the Apostolic use of the Septuagint. In Acts 7:14 St. Stephen says that Jacob came to Joseph with 75 people. The Masoretic Hebrew version of Genesis 46:27 says “70,” while the Septuagint’s says “75,” the number Stephen used. Following the Apostles' example, Stephen clearly used the Septuagint.[6] (We also know from other ancient Christian documents, like the Didache[7] and Pope St. Clement’s Letter to the Corinthians, that the apostles’ successors not only used the Septuagint, but quote from all of the books in the Alexandrian canon as the authoritative word of God.)
no wonder you have such bizarre interpretations!! you actually think that you are superior to the apostle Paul!! Well if you think you can stand in judgment over the great apostle to the Gentiles, obviously you will think yourself superior to any but those who agree with you and your absurd interpretations. Thankfully the church dealt with your particular brand of heresy (dealt with at least as early as Severus), and really, all you are trying to do is to revive a heresy already dealt with by the church… there is nothing new under the sun…Severus:
He strengthened the heresy of Tatian and created another sect known as the Severians. They made use of the law and prophets and gospels, giving a peculiar interpretation of the sacred writings, but abused Paul the apostle and set aside his epistles, as well as the Acts of the Apostles.”selah…
in any case, you have officially lost all credibility with me, as will anyone who joins you in standing in judgment over Paul… Paul judges you as an inspired prophet and man if God, not the other way around.
blessings,
kenQuote (Nick Hassan @ April 22 2009,10:22) Quote (kerwin @ April 22 2009,13:26) Nick Hassan wrote: Quote Why philosophize?
Because God did through Paul in Romans 3. That is what I was addressing. In fact I just said the same thing using different words.
Hi KW,
God is not of Philosophy.
It is of the foolish ways of men.
Colossians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.Have you read the passage I speak of in Romans 3? Because if you did you would realize you are accusing scripture of using the foolish ways of men.
Romans 3:5-8(NIV) reads:
Quote But if our unrighteousness (darkness) brings out God's righteousness (light) more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say—”Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is deserved.
Colossians 2:8 was used by an early theologian who was biased against Greek philosophy and therefore condemned all philosophy and his bigotry has remained in the western church since then. I can's remember his name offhand but you should read on in Colossians where it tells you it is speaking of rules based on the principles of the world.
Colossians 2:20-23(NIV) reads:
Quote Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
Do not use philosophy is a principle of the world as it is based on human teachings. Jesus himself was a philosopher and his philosophy came from God.
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