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Angles on board?
Battle in heaven
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.Battle earth
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.voice of the archangel,
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:Resaults of the voice of the archangel, on earth
Daniel 12:1
“Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Jhn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Angels in the flesh; that we may not refuse christ on earth walking in the flesh? which is the antichrist spirit
Jhn 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.vision to come
Dan 12:1 ¶ And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.Reign with christ; righteous dwells in the new earth
Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
voice of the archangel, the lamb assended to earth effect of the vision on earth
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:vision in motion
Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Jhn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Jhn 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.By the blood they overcame; vision completed
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.Mission to rebiuld the wastes and of many generations Remnent chosen
Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 06 2007,23:39) Hi charity,
Is not Michael an amazing servant of Christ and his God?
Hbr 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Angles on board or not?
Angels on board
The angles come to do their Job one earth; we may recognize them by their duties given from God below.
Moses etcHbr 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Hbr 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard [him];
Book of Enoch
XX. Names and Functions of the Seven Archangels.
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And these are the names of the holy angels who watch. Uriel, one of the holy angels, who is
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over the world and over Tartarul Raphael, one of the holy angels, who is over the spirits of men.
4,5
Raguel, one of the holy angels who takes vengeance on the world of the luminaries. Michael, one
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of the holy angels, to wit, he that is set over the best part of mankind and over chaos. Saraqâêl,
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one of the holy angels, who is set over the spirits, who sin in the spirit. Gabriel, one of the holy
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angels, who is over Paradise and the serpents and the Cherubim. Remiel, one of the holy angels, whom God set over those who rise.Waiting for the power of death to be swollowed up; all have an angel in hope of wit
Mat 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.1Ti 5:21 I charge [thee] before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.
Hbr 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
Woops sorry God he just looked like a flesh man?
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Is christ an Angel?
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Charity
Hi charity,
Those are the Chief Angels but there are myriards of simple messengers too, perhaps even like Peter we may have our own[acts 12]?Quote Hi charity,
Is not Michael an amazing servant of Christ and his God?Could you please provide any scripture that says or hints at Michael being a servant of Christ?
We must not go beyond what is written Nick, as you have said about 100 times on this thread.Hi david,
All power and authority has been given to Christ.
Matt 28
“18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth..”1Cor 15
” 25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.26The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
27For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.”
Michael is a servant warrior of God who drives Satan from heaven and one of the chief angelic beings of the hosts of heaven.
Rev 12
” 7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.”
As Christ has all authority, he is in authority over all the angels including Michael.
Have you heard of circular reasoning, or begging the question or Petitio Principii?
This thread is about “Jesus, Michael” and whether or not they are the same one.
You saying that: “As Christ has all authority, he is in authority over all the angels including Michael,” is of course meaningless if Michael and Christ are the same one.So going back to what I said, I will make this clear once again: There is no scripture that says that Michael is a servant of Christ.
You trying to prove that this is the case is a fallacious argument.
Hi david,
JWs are welcome to teach whatever they fancy but if that can make any claim to serving God in that mission they must abide in the Word of God. You know that the bible does not say Jesus is Michael and yet you praise the organisation that teaches these things.Is JW unity so precious to you that you would not challenge and warn and even rebuke your wayward leaders even if they taught what Christ did not?
Who is your real master?
Nick stated: “Hi david,
Scripture never makes any such statement so why would you try to build on such fantasies?”I can only assume you are speaking of these words that we are discussing:
“Is not Michael an amazing servant of Christ and his God?”
You're right. Scriptue makes no such statements. Which is why I asked you to back up that unscriptural statement with a scritpure. You couldn't find one.
Nick, normally I wouldn't have called you on this, but since we're in this thread where you have numerous times stated that the Bible nowhere specifically says: “Michael is the name of Jesus while in heaven”, I felt obliged to point out that what you were saying is based on something that also isn't found in the Bible.
And yes, I know, the burden of proof is clearly on me.But I ask that you don't use circular reasoning to prove your arguments.
Quote Is JW unity so precious to you that you would not challenge and warn and even rebuke your wayward leaders even if they taught what Christ did not? While the Bible nowhere specifically says this, the evidence supports it. There are a lot of things the Bible doesn't specifically say that are none the less true.
Nick, you have to understand that this is not something we discuss at any great length. It hardly ever comes up. Us discussing this on this site is not at all proportonal to the importance or mention of our beliefs when not on this site.Hi david,
Perhaps you should prove your love of scripture by insisting your JW organisation abides in it.NH
Quote Hi david,
Perhaps you should prove your love of scripture by insisting your JW organisation abides in it.Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult. Their own “bible contradicts them.
See the following.
In Revelation 1:8. I am quoting from the Jehovah's Witness’s own Bible, and it reads, “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says Jehovah God.
Ask the Witness, “What does Alpha and Omega mean?” They'll reply, “The beginning and the end.” Then ask them, “How many Alphas and Omegas can you have?” They'll answer, “Only one.” They will agree that there is only one Alpha and Omega.
Then turn to Revelation 22:12-13 which says, “Look I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me….I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
Ask the Jehovah’s Witnesses, “Who do you say the Alpha and Omega is?” They will say, “Jehovah.” Now take a careful look. The Alpha and Omega in verse twelve is coming quickly. Let's see who is speaking in verse twelve.
Look at verse sixteen, “I Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to you people of these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright morning star.”
It is Jesus speaking in verse twelve. If there is any doubt go to verse 20 which says, “He that bears witness of these things says, 'Yes; I am coming quickly' Amen come Lord Jesus.”
So it is clear that the Alpha and the Omega in verse twelve is Jesus.
Here is a strong proof text that Jesus is God because both Jehovah and Jesus are called the Alpha and the Omega.
Another pair of verses that are effective when used together are Isaiah 44:6 and Revelation 1:17-18.
Isaiah 44:6 says, “This is what Jehovah has said, 'The king of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, I am the first and I am the last.'”
Ask the Jehovah’s Witnesses how many firsts and lasts can you have?
It's obvious to anyone you can only have one first and one last. Ask them, “Who is the first and the last?” They will say, “Jehovah.”
Now turn to Revelation 1:17-18 which says, “Do not be fearful; I am the First and the Last, and the living one; and I became dead but look! I am living forever.”
Who is speaking here? Obviously, it is Jesus for He died but is now alive, and guess what? He is called the First and the Last.
Here again we see that Jesus is God.
And the Jehovah's Witnesses have egg on their faces once again.
Hi cb,
God was in Christ.[2Cor 5.19]
So no surprises when God speaks through him is there?
That does not prove he also is Who is in him does it?One thing he did not say was that he is any kind of angel and they know this but are too timid to challenge their leaders about it.
CB, your complete lack of evidence to support the claims you make often makes me nauseous. especially when you repeat them over and over again, without actually thinking what you are saying. It's almost as if you've been…brainwashed.
In your post above, you state:
Quote Their own “bible contradicts them. Unfortunately, you know neither scripture nor common sense.
If you actually want to discuss those scriptures, I would love to do that in the Alpha and Omega thread. If not, which I assume is your answer, please stop spreading lies.
david
Quote Hi david,
Perhaps you should prove your love of scripture by insisting your JW organisation abides in it.
And perhaps you should prove your love of scripture and truth by giving up false religion and babylion practices. Step out of her, Nick. What do you think Christmas is? True Relgion? Or is it lies and paganism. You know the answer, yet you abide it. Your actions betray your words. You cannot have it both ways. You know what Christmas is. Yet you celebrate it. Open your eyes man! Literally, pinch yourself now. Wake up. You know what Christmas is. Ive heard you denounce it yourself. Of course, this has nothing to do with what we're talking about, other than the fact that I just finally found out that you apparently do celebrate in paganism and lies and it makes it hard to take anything you say seriously after that.
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