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There is yet another possibility: the Jewish Messiah will never come. Just as Jesus will never return. Both of these are hopeful expectations of superstitious primitive people. And some superstitious modern ones too.
Hi KJ,
You have a universe of options open to you to believe in now.
So why worry about things you do not believe in?I dunno, I suppose because others worry about the things I don't believe in
. I live in the bible belt ya know.Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 22 2008,20:09) 94, There is yet another possibility: the Jewish Messiah will never come. Just as Jesus will never return. Both of these are hopeful expectations of superstitious primitive people. And some superstitious modern ones too.
Hi KJ:And so, now you don't believe either the OT or the NT?
Some of both are good. I find that I can no longer fully believe in the Abrahamic view of God. Too much punishment/reward involved. That is a selfish view IMHO.
Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 23 2008,04:46) Some of both are good. I find that I can no longer fully believe in the Abrahamic view of God. Too much punishment/reward involved. That is a selfish view IMHO.
Hi KJ:And what is the “Abrahamic view of God”?
Quote (942767 @ Mar. 23 2008,05:56) Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 23 2008,04:46) Some of both are good. I find that I can no longer fully believe in the Abrahamic view of God. Too much punishment/reward involved. That is a selfish view IMHO.
Hi KJ:And what is the “Abrahamic view of God”?
The Abrahamic god plays chicken with the son of Abraham. He smites left, right and centre inventing arbitrary rules to be obeyed on pain of death. In a fit of petulance he drowns every living thing except a few chosen favourites.I think kejonn means that Abrahamic view of god.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Mar. 23 2008,07:51) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 23 2008,05:56) Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 23 2008,04:46) Some of both are good. I find that I can no longer fully believe in the Abrahamic view of God. Too much punishment/reward involved. That is a selfish view IMHO.
Hi KJ:And what is the “Abrahamic view of God”?
The Abrahamic god plays chicken with the son of Abraham. He smites left, right and centre inventing arbitrary rules to be obeyed on pain of death. In a fit of petulance he drowns every living thing except a few chosen favourites.I think kejonn means that Abrahamic view of god.
Stuart
Do you do KJ's thinking for him?Quote (942767 @ Mar. 22 2008,12:56) Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 23 2008,04:46) Some of both are good. I find that I can no longer fully believe in the Abrahamic view of God. Too much punishment/reward involved. That is a selfish view IMHO.
Hi KJ:And what is the “Abrahamic view of God”?
The Abrahamic view gave rise to four separate religions: Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Bahai (in that chronological order). Each one of these religions is based on a reward/punishment system: do this, don't do that, etc. so you can stay in God's favor. All of them use fear to some extant. The three most well known have had their share of bloodshed, and adherents have killed many in the name of the God of Abraham.Quote (Stu @ Mar. 22 2008,14:51) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 23 2008,05:56) Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 23 2008,04:46) Some of both are good. I find that I can no longer fully believe in the Abrahamic view of God. Too much punishment/reward involved. That is a selfish view IMHO.
Hi KJ:And what is the “Abrahamic view of God”?
The Abrahamic god plays chicken with the son of Abraham. He smites left, right and centre inventing arbitrary rules to be obeyed on pain of death. In a fit of petulance he drowns every living thing except a few chosen favourites.I think kejonn means that Abrahamic view of god.
Stuart
Basically. The Abrahamic view also has God as one who grants divine favors for obeying certain things, according to the set of rules the certain religion (see previous post) has doled out through its “holy men”.This view of God also has His destroying wicked people. Often, we never know what constitutes wickedness in the eyes of the Abrahamic God, but merely being of another faith seems to be a sufficient reason to slaughter.
Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 23 2008,09:51) Quote (Stu @ Mar. 22 2008,14:51) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 23 2008,05:56) Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 23 2008,04:46) Some of both are good. I find that I can no longer fully believe in the Abrahamic view of God. Too much punishment/reward involved. That is a selfish view IMHO.
Hi KJ:And what is the “Abrahamic view of God”?
The Abrahamic god plays chicken with the son of Abraham. He smites left, right and centre inventing arbitrary rules to be obeyed on pain of death. In a fit of petulance he drowns every living thing except a few chosen favourites.I think kejonn means that Abrahamic view of god.
Stuart
Basically. The Abrahamic view also has God as one who grants divine favors for obeying certain things, according to the set of rules the certain religion (see previous post) has doled out through its “holy men”.This view of God also has His destroying wicked people. Often, we never know what constitutes wickedness in the eyes of the Abrahamic God, but merely being of another faith seems to be a sufficient reason to slaughter.
Hi KJ:The God of the OT and the God of my Lord Jesus is the God that I obey. My walk with God is not about religion, but about a personal relationship with God through my Lord Jesus who loved me and gave his life for me so that I might have the previlege and honor of being a son of the Most High God.
God has given us principles by which to live. With which of the Ten Commandments do you disagree?
Salvation begins here and now in this earth. To live contrary to God's Word is detrimental to us and to those whom we sin against, and so, it doesn't make sense to me that anyone would not want to obey God.
My God is a God of love and a God of mercy, but he is also a God of justice.
As for me, I appreciate what God has done for me in the person of His Only Begotten Son and His Christ. A greater gift God could not have given me that to deliver me from the life that I was living, forgiving me all of my sins, and teaching me how to live a fulfilling life free from all guilt.
It is also wonderful to know that if I make a mistake I am not condemned.
This the God of Abraham that I know.
Quote (942767 @ Mar. 22 2008,17:20) Hi KJ: The God of the OT and the God of my Lord Jesus is the God that I obey. My walk with God is not about religion, but about a personal relationship with God through my Lord Jesus who loved me and gave his life for me so that I might have the previlege and honor of being a son of the Most High God.
God has given us principles by which to live. With which of the Ten Commandments do you disagree?
Basically, the 10 Commandments are pretty much common sense morality. With the exception of the Sabbath that is.But are the 10 all you need? Is it OK to abuse your children? Beat your wife? Use drugs? None of those things are covered in the 10 so they are certainly nothing that anyone could not carry out. Not perfectly of course but nobody's perfect.
Quote Salvation begins here and now in this earth. To live contrary to God's Word is detrimental to us and to those whom we sin against, and so, it doesn't make sense to me that anyone would not want to obey God.
What makes you think that merely following what is written in the bible is “obeying God”? Do you think God is some dictator in the sky who has laid out a list of rules to follow? Or is the list one formed by man with God's name stamped to them? Many of the commandments of the Torah are certainly odd — particularly those that degrade women. In the OT it is a sin to have a period.Quote My God is a God of love and a God of mercy, but he is also a God of justice.
I've heard that line before. It comes from those who think justice is when God has people slaughtered. For what? What justice is there in killing the firstborns of Egypt because of one man, particularly if you remember that it was God (according to the OT) who cause Pharaoh to refuse Moses one more time. So God manipulated a man so that He could in turn slaughter innocent babes in their cradle.Quote As for me, I appreciate what God has done for me in the person of His Only Begotten Son and His Christ. A greater gift God could not have given me that to deliver me from the life that I was living, forgiving me all of my sins, and teaching me how to live a fulfilling life free from all guilt.
But do you not realize that there are others of different religions who will have a similar life experience in their faith? They might say that they were delivered from something too, and how would what they have experienced be any less than yours? Only because you believe so?Quote It is also wonderful to know that if I make a mistake I am not condemned.
That's fear speaking. What kind of God do you think He is to condemn anyone for being human?Quote This the God of Abraham that I know.
Then you ignore alot of passages in the bible.HI KJ:
David wanted to keep this thread for prophecies regarding the question of Jesus being the Messiah, and we have gotten a little off that subject. Where can we continue this discussion?
Quote (942767 @ Mar. 23 2008,08:12) Quote (Stu @ Mar. 23 2008,07:51) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 23 2008,05:56) Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 23 2008,04:46) Some of both are good. I find that I can no longer fully believe in the Abrahamic view of God. Too much punishment/reward involved. That is a selfish view IMHO.
Hi KJ:And what is the “Abrahamic view of God”?
The Abrahamic god plays chicken with the son of Abraham. He smites left, right and centre inventing arbitrary rules to be obeyed on pain of death. In a fit of petulance he drowns every living thing except a few chosen favourites.I think kejonn means that Abrahamic view of god.
Stuart
Do you do KJ's thinking for him?
No, unlike many here, kejonn and I are able to think independently of one another, and we both are able to think critically. Did I say I was thinking for him?Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Mar. 23 2008,14:33) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 23 2008,08:12) Quote (Stu @ Mar. 23 2008,07:51) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 23 2008,05:56) Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 23 2008,04:46) Some of both are good. I find that I can no longer fully believe in the Abrahamic view of God. Too much punishment/reward involved. That is a selfish view IMHO.
Hi KJ:And what is the “Abrahamic view of God”?
The Abrahamic god plays chicken with the son of Abraham. He smites left, right and centre inventing arbitrary rules to be obeyed on pain of death. In a fit of petulance he drowns every living thing except a few chosen favourites.I think kejonn means that Abrahamic view of god.
Stuart
Do you do KJ's thinking for him?
No, unlike many here, kejonn and I are able to think independently of one another, and we both are able to think critically. Did I say I was thinking for him?Stuart
Hi Stu:You said:
Quote I think kejonn means that Abrahamic view of god. Quote (942767 @ Mar. 23 2008,15:09) Quote (Stu @ Mar. 23 2008,14:33) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 23 2008,08:12) Quote (Stu @ Mar. 23 2008,07:51) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 23 2008,05:56) Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 23 2008,04:46) Some of both are good. I find that I can no longer fully believe in the Abrahamic view of God. Too much punishment/reward involved. That is a selfish view IMHO.
Hi KJ:And what is the “Abrahamic view of God”?
The Abrahamic god plays chicken with the son of Abraham. He smites left, right and centre inventing arbitrary rules to be obeyed on pain of death. In a fit of petulance he drowns every living thing except a few chosen favourites.I think kejonn means that Abrahamic view of god.
Stuart
Do you do KJ's thinking for him?
No, unlike many here, kejonn and I are able to think independently of one another, and we both are able to think critically. Did I say I was thinking for him?Stuart
Hi Stu:You said:
Quote I think kejonn means that Abrahamic view of god.
Yes. I did not say 'kejonn thinks'…Stuart
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