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How is it that you can be a sinner if Jesus paid in full the price of sin?
If the sins of the world have been taken away what sin remains?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 08 2009,10:57) How is it that you can be a sinner if Jesus paid in full the price of sin? If the sins of the world have been taken away what sin remains?
Hi BD:Only the sin of rejecting the what God has done for us in the person of Jesus His Only Begotten Son and His Christ.
Quote Hbr 10:26 ¶ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, Hbr 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Hbr 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Hbr 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Hbr 10:31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Oct. 08 2009,11:04) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 08 2009,10:57) How is it that you can be a sinner if Jesus paid in full the price of sin? If the sins of the world have been taken away what sin remains?
Hi BD:Only the sin of rejecting the what God has done for us in the person of Jesus His Only Begotten Son and His Christ.
Quote Hbr 10:26 ¶ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, Hbr 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Hbr 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Hbr 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Hbr 10:31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God
Love in Christ,
Marty
So there is no other sin that remains?the scripture says that the lamb of God takes away the sins of the world so even if the one sin you mentioned remains how does that sin remain when all truly means All and the whole world truly means the whole world?
And when you preach do you preach that sin no longer remains and has been defeated?
When a fellow believer comes to you and says he had an affair on his wife or stole some cash from his job because he was afraid he was going to lose his house do you say “don't worry because these are not sins”?
Sin still remains doesn't it?
You gave me these scriptures:
Hbr 10:26 ¶ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Hbr 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Hbr 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Hbr 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Hbr 10:31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God
Are you aware that according to these verses you are under a worse law than the one you were supposed to be under for now it says that no sin can be forgiven nor anymore sacrifice for someone who commits a sin, do you believe this and have you not commited one single act of sin knowingly since you became “saved”? because if you have this scripture seems to say that sin remains.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 08 2009,11:34) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 08 2009,11:04) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 08 2009,10:57) How is it that you can be a sinner if Jesus paid in full the price of sin? If the sins of the world have been taken away what sin remains?
Hi BD:Only the sin of rejecting the what God has done for us in the person of Jesus His Only Begotten Son and His Christ.
Quote Hbr 10:26 ¶ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, Hbr 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Hbr 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Hbr 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Hbr 10:31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God
Love in Christ,
Marty
So there is no other sin that remains?the scripture says that the lamb of God takes away the sins of the world so even if the one sin you mentioned remains how does that sin remain when all truly means All and the whole world truly means the whole world?
And when you preach do you preach that sin no longer remains and has been defeated?
When a fellow believer comes to you and says he had an affair on his wife or stole some cash from his job because he was afraid he was going to lose his house do you say “don't worry because these are not sins”?
Sin still remains doesn't it?
Hi BD:The blood of Jesus washes away the sins of those who come to God through him with a repentant heart. This offer is to the whole world, but not all will accept what God has done for them.
Also, when we as born again Christians sin, and we do, we repent and the blood of Jesus washes away our sins.
The sin that remains is that of rejecting the salvation that God has provided through the Lord Jesus, practicing sin wilfully after one has received the knowledge of the truth.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 08 2009,11:38) You gave me these scriptures: Hbr 10:26 ¶ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Hbr 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Hbr 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Hbr 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Hbr 10:31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God
Are you aware that according to these verses you are under a worse law than the one you were supposed to be under for now it says that no sin can be forgiven nor anymore sacrifice for someone who commits a sin, do you believe this and have you not commited one single act of sin knowingly since you became “saved”? because if you have this scripture seems to say that sin remains.
Good question. Thanks for asking.For the Protestant, this is a Scripture that can easily lead to despair since they do not have access to the sacrament/holy mystery of reconciliation. Mortal sin (deadly sin) separates one from Christ. This is a serious matter. True repentance and reception back into the saving Body of Christ is necessary otherwise how else will they receive atonement?
We must be “in” Christ to receive atonement. His work is potentially efficacious for the whole world. (1 Jn. 2:2) But this work needs to be applied. Thus “if” we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.
The Bible is not a manual for the layman to pick up and learn the faith. This is the job of the Church that wrote these inspired Scriptures that are profitable for use in the Church for instruction in righteousness.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 08 2009,11:38) You gave me these scriptures: Hbr 10:26 ¶ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Hbr 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Hbr 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Hbr 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Hbr 10:31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God
Are you aware that according to these verses you are under a worse law than the one you were supposed to be under for now it says that no sin can be forgiven nor anymore sacrifice for someone who commits a sin, do you believe this and have you not commited one single act of sin knowingly since you became “saved”? because if you have this scripture seems to say that sin remains.
Hi BD:I have already answered your question, and I believe that CA also has answered this for you, as well.
Love in Christ,
MartySo basically sin still runs rampant and yet you believe that Jesus dying on the cross did something different than what was already the case which is repentance to God is what takes away sins.
Reconciliation to God has always been through repentance. Jesus himself never even said that blood takes away sins. And you all have told me sin has not been defeated accept through repentance which proceeds Jesus so therefor what we find in Jesus is a High Priest that is accepting as where the other high priests had no mercy or compassion.
Moses was also such a High Priest being an intercessor between Israel and God
Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2009,12:29) So basically sin still runs rampant and yet you believe that Jesus dying on the cross did something different than what was already the case which is repentance to God is what takes away sins. Reconciliation to God has always been through repentance. Jesus himself never even said that blood takes away sins. And you all have told me sin has not been defeated accept through repentance which proceeds Jesus so therefor what we find in Jesus is a High Priest that is accepting as where the other high priests had no mercy or compassion.
Moses was also such a High Priest being an intercessor between Israel and God
What Jesus did on the cross for us, is that He took the dead sentence away from us. We are under His Blood of the New Covenant.
Luke 22:20
No other Sacrifice is needed. In the Old testament they had to use an Animal for a Sacrifice. Jesus is our perfect sacrifice and no other is needed. But that does not mean that we are now don't sin anymore. And John tells us that if we don't believe that we don't sin, the truth is not in us.
Jesus is our Mediator to go to the Throne of God and ask Him directly to forgive us our sins. In that sense He took away sin.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (georg @ Oct. 09 2009,12:42) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2009,12:29) So basically sin still runs rampant and yet you believe that Jesus dying on the cross did something different than what was already the case which is repentance to God is what takes away sins. Reconciliation to God has always been through repentance. Jesus himself never even said that blood takes away sins. And you all have told me sin has not been defeated accept through repentance which proceeds Jesus so therefor what we find in Jesus is a High Priest that is accepting as where the other high priests had no mercy or compassion.
Moses was also such a High Priest being an intercessor between Israel and God
What Jesus did on the cross for us, is that He took the dead sentence away from us. We are under His Blood of the New Covenant.
Luke 22:20
No other Sacrifice is needed. In the Old testament they had to use an Animal for a Sacrifice. Jesus is our perfect sacrifice and no other is needed. But that does not mean that we are now don't sin anymore. And John tells us that if we don't believe that we don't sin, the truth is not in us.
Jesus is our Mediator to go to the Throne of God and ask Him directly to forgive us our sins. In that sense He took away sin.
Peace and Love Irene
God never wanted sacrifice at all.Jeremiah 7
22For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
23But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
Exodus 19:5
5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
1 Samuel 15:21-23
22And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2009,13:02) Quote (georg @ Oct. 09 2009,12:42) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2009,12:29) So basically sin still runs rampant and yet you believe that Jesus dying on the cross did something different than what was already the case which is repentance to God is what takes away sins. Reconciliation to God has always been through repentance. Jesus himself never even said that blood takes away sins. And you all have told me sin has not been defeated accept through repentance which proceeds Jesus so therefor what we find in Jesus is a High Priest that is accepting as where the other high priests had no mercy or compassion.
Moses was also such a High Priest being an intercessor between Israel and God
What Jesus did on the cross for us, is that He took the dead sentence away from us. We are under His Blood of the New Covenant.
Luke 22:20
No other Sacrifice is needed. In the Old testament they had to use an Animal for a Sacrifice. Jesus is our perfect sacrifice and no other is needed. But that does not mean that we are now don't sin anymore. And John tells us that if we don't believe that we don't sin, the truth is not in us.
Jesus is our Mediator to go to the Throne of God and ask Him directly to forgive us our sins. In that sense He took away sin.
Peace and Love Irene
God never wanted sacrifice at all.Jeremiah 7
22For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
23But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
Exodus 19:5
5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
1 Samuel 15:21-23
22And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
Hi BD:God provided the sacrifice.
Yes, we come to God with a repentant heart, and I believe that you are trying to do good works, but you are still subject to make mistakes, just as all of us are subject to do so.
The sacrifice that God has given in giving us His Only Begotten Son, covers all of the sins of every one who was striving to obey God from the beginning until Jesus ministry, and it covers the sins of all who come to God with a repentant heart through him since his ministry until he comes for the church.
We are saved because of God's goodness, and not because what we have or have not done.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Oct. 09 2009,13:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2009,13:02) Quote (georg @ Oct. 09 2009,12:42) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2009,12:29) So basically sin still runs rampant and yet you believe that Jesus dying on the cross did something different than what was already the case which is repentance to God is what takes away sins. Reconciliation to God has always been through repentance. Jesus himself never even said that blood takes away sins. And you all have told me sin has not been defeated accept through repentance which proceeds Jesus so therefor what we find in Jesus is a High Priest that is accepting as where the other high priests had no mercy or compassion.
Moses was also such a High Priest being an intercessor between Israel and God
What Jesus did on the cross for us, is that He took the dead sentence away from us. We are under His Blood of the New Covenant.
Luke 22:20
No other Sacrifice is needed. In the Old testament they had to use an Animal for a Sacrifice. Jesus is our perfect sacrifice and no other is needed. But that does not mean that we are now don't sin anymore. And John tells us that if we don't believe that we don't sin, the truth is not in us.
Jesus is our Mediator to go to the Throne of God and ask Him directly to forgive us our sins. In that sense He took away sin.
Peace and Love Irene
God never wanted sacrifice at all.Jeremiah 7
22For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
23But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
Exodus 19:5
5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
1 Samuel 15:21-23
22And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
Hi BD:God provided the sacrifice.
Yes, we come to God with a repentant heart, and I believe that you are trying to do good works, but you are still subject to make mistakes, just as all of us are subject to do so.
The sacrifice that God has given in giving us His Only Begotten Son, covers all of the sins of every one who was striving to obey God from the beginning until Jesus ministry, and it covers the sins of all who come to God with a repentant heart through him since his ministry until he comes for the church.
We are saved because of God's goodness, and not because what we have or have not done.
Love in Christ,
Marty
“We are saved because of God's goodness, and not because what we have or have not done”That is exactly what God told the Israelites before Jesus was sent.
Deuteronomy 9
5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
6 Understand therefore, that the LORD thy God giveth thee not this good land to possess it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiffnecked people.
Hi BD,
God has done everything possible to allow you to be saved.
But you must obey His son[jn3, 10, 14]Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 09 2009,13:42) Hi BD,
God has done everything possible to allow you to be saved.
But you must obey His son[jn3, 10, 14]
So is it obeying His son to Worship God in spirit and truth and only Worship God?Quote (942767 @ Oct. 09 2009,13:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2009,13:02) Quote (georg @ Oct. 09 2009,12:42) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2009,12:29) So basically sin still runs rampant and yet you believe that Jesus dying on the cross did something different than what was already the case which is repentance to God is what takes away sins. Reconciliation to God has always been through repentance. Jesus himself never even said that blood takes away sins. And you all have told me sin has not been defeated accept through repentance which proceeds Jesus so therefor what we find in Jesus is a High Priest that is accepting as where the other high priests had no mercy or compassion.
Moses was also such a High Priest being an intercessor between Israel and God
What Jesus did on the cross for us, is that He took the dead sentence away from us. We are under His Blood of the New Covenant.
Luke 22:20
No other Sacrifice is needed. In the Old testament they had to use an Animal for a Sacrifice. Jesus is our perfect sacrifice and no other is needed. But that does not mean that we are now don't sin anymore. And John tells us that if we don't believe that we don't sin, the truth is not in us.
Jesus is our Mediator to go to the Throne of God and ask Him directly to forgive us our sins. In that sense He took away sin.
Peace and Love Irene
God never wanted sacrifice at all.Jeremiah 7
22For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
23But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
Exodus 19:5
5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
1 Samuel 15:21-23
22And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
Hi BD:God provided the sacrifice.
Yes, we come to God with a repentant heart, and I believe that you are trying to do good works, but you are still subject to make mistakes, just as all of us are subject to do so.
The sacrifice that God has given in giving us His Only Begotten Son, covers all of the sins of every one who was striving to obey God from the beginning until Jesus ministry, and it covers the sins of all who come to God with a repentant heart through him since his ministry until he comes for the church.
We are saved because of God's goodness, and not because what we have or have not done.
Love in Christ,
Marty
You are so right, we can do nothing to be saved. Otherwise it would not be by grace and Faith, that we are saved.
Praise the LORD on High.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2009,13:26) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 09 2009,13:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2009,13:02) Quote (georg @ Oct. 09 2009,12:42) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2009,12:29) So basically sin still runs rampant and yet you believe that Jesus dying on the cross did something different than what was already the case which is repentance to God is what takes away sins. Reconciliation to God has always been through repentance. Jesus himself never even said that blood takes away sins. And you all have told me sin has not been defeated accept through repentance which proceeds Jesus so therefor what we find in Jesus is a High Priest that is accepting as where the other high priests had no mercy or compassion.
Moses was also such a High Priest being an intercessor between Israel and God
What Jesus did on the cross for us, is that He took the dead sentence away from us. We are under His Blood of the New Covenant.
Luke 22:20
No other Sacrifice is needed. In the Old testament they had to use an Animal for a Sacrifice. Jesus is our perfect sacrifice and no other is needed. But that does not mean that we are now don't sin anymore. And John tells us that if we don't believe that we don't sin, the truth is not in us.
Jesus is our Mediator to go to the Throne of God and ask Him directly to forgive us our sins. In that sense He took away sin.
Peace and Love Irene
God never wanted sacrifice at all.Jeremiah 7
22For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
23But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
Exodus 19:5
5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
1 Samuel 15:21-23
22And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
Hi BD:God provided the sacrifice.
Yes, we come to God with a repentant heart, and I believe that you are trying to do good works, but you are still subject to make mistakes, just as all of us are subject to do so.
The sacrifice that God has given in giving us His Only Begotten Son, covers all of the sins of every one who was striving to obey God from the beginning until Jesus ministry, and it covers the sins of all who come to God with a repentant heart through him since his ministry until he comes for the church.
We are saved because of God's goodness, and not because what we have or have not done.
Love in Christ,
Marty
“We are saved because of God's goodness, and not because what we have or have not done”That is exactly what God told the Israelites before Jesus was sent.
Deuteronomy 9
5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
6 Understand therefore, that the LORD thy God giveth thee not this good land to possess it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiffnecked people.
Hi BD:Before Jesus was sent, under the Law of Moses, when the people sinned, the brought a sacrifice, and it was the blood of the sacrifice that atoned for their sin.
And on the day of atonement, the high priest of the Nation of Israel went into the Holy of Holies into the presence of God with blood for his own sins and with blood for the sins of the nation of Israel.
But the blood of these animals was only symbolic of the sacrifice that God would provide through Jesus. He sacrificed his life having obeyed God without sin in spite of what men could do to him. This then was a perfect sacrifce.
You cannot buy salvation and you cannot earn it. It is a gift from God. Salvation is by faith so that it might be by grace(unmerited favor of God), that is believeing God's testimony regarding God giving His Only Begotten Son so that we can be reconciled to Him.
After we are reconciled to him, God is the Father of our spirit when we have died unto sin and have been raised from the dead(spiritual separation from God) by the Holy Spirit, just as Jesus was raised from the dead. (This is what is meant by being born again). When we have been born again, Jesus is our example for living in right standing with God. But since we make mistakes, we could not be saved without the blood that was shed to wash away our sins when we fall short of perfect obedience.
I hope that this helps you to understand. I love you and want the very best that God has to offer for you and all Muslims.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Oct. 09 2009,13:58) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2009,13:26) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 09 2009,13:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2009,13:02) Quote (georg @ Oct. 09 2009,12:42) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2009,12:29) So basically sin still runs rampant and yet you believe that Jesus dying on the cross did something different than what was already the case which is repentance to God is what takes away sins. Reconciliation to God has always been through repentance. Jesus himself never even said that blood takes away sins. And you all have told me sin has not been defeated accept through repentance which proceeds Jesus so therefor what we find in Jesus is a High Priest that is accepting as where the other high priests had no mercy or compassion.
Moses was also such a High Priest being an intercessor between Israel and God
What Jesus did on the cross for us, is that He took the dead sentence away from us. We are under His Blood of the New Covenant.
Luke 22:20
No other Sacrifice is needed. In the Old testament they had to use an Animal for a Sacrifice. Jesus is our perfect sacrifice and no other is needed. But that does not mean that we are now don't sin anymore. And John tells us that if we don't believe that we don't sin, the truth is not in us.
Jesus is our Mediator to go to the Throne of God and ask Him directly to forgive us our sins. In that sense He took away sin.
Peace and Love Irene
God never wanted sacrifice at all.Jeremiah 7
22For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
23But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
Exodus 19:5
5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
1 Samuel 15:21-23
22And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
Hi BD:God provided the sacrifice.
Yes, we come to God with a repentant heart, and I believe that you are trying to do good works, but you are still subject to make mistakes, just as all of us are subject to do so.
The sacrifice that God has given in giving us His Only Begotten Son, covers all of the sins of every one who was striving to obey God from the beginning until Jesus ministry, and it covers the sins of all who come to God with a repentant heart through him since his ministry until he comes for the church.
We are saved because of God's goodness, and not because what we have or have not done.
Love in Christ,
Marty
“We are saved because of God's goodness, and not because what we have or have not done”That is exactly what God told the Israelites before Jesus was sent.
Deuteronomy 9
5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
6 Understand therefore, that the LORD thy God giveth thee not this good land to possess it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiffnecked people.
Hi BD:Before Jesus was sent, under the Law of Moses, when the people sinned, the brought a sacrifice, and it was the blood of the sacrifice that atoned for their sin.
And on the day of atonement, the high priest of the Nation of Israel went into the Holy of Holies into the presence of God with blood for his own sins and with blood for the sins of the nation of Israel.
But the blood of these animals was only symbolic of the sacrifice that God would provide through Jesus. He sacrificed his life having obeyed God without sin in spite of what men could do to him. This then was a perfect sacrifce.
You cannot buy salvation and you cannot earn it. It is a gift from God. Salvation is by faith so that it might be by grace(unmerited favor of God), that is believeing God's testimony regarding God giving His Only Begotten Son so that we can be reconciled to Him.
After we are reconciled to him, God is the Father of our spirit when we have died unto sin and have been raised from the dead(spiritual separation from God) by the Holy Spirit, just as Jesus was raised from the dead. (This is what is meant by being born again). When we have been born again, Jesus is our example for living in right standing with God. But since we make mistakes, we could not be saved without the blood that was shed to wash away our sins when we fall short of perfect obedience.
I hope that this helps you to understand. I love you and want the very best that God has to offer for you and all Muslims.
Love in Christ,
Marty
If the blood of the animals were symbolic then so was the blood of Jesus also symbolic to show obedience for atonement does not require blood at all as specified by the Scapegoat in leviticus that is not sacrificed but makes atonement.Quote (942767 @ Oct. 09 2009,13:58) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2009,13:26) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 09 2009,13:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2009,13:02) Quote (georg @ Oct. 09 2009,12:42) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2009,12:29) So basically sin still runs rampant and yet you believe that Jesus dying on the cross did something different than what was already the case which is repentance to God is what takes away sins. Reconciliation to God has always been through repentance. Jesus himself never even said that blood takes away sins. And you all have told me sin has not been defeated accept through repentance which proceeds Jesus so therefor what we find in Jesus is a High Priest that is accepting as where the other high priests had no mercy or compassion.
Moses was also such a High Priest being an intercessor between Israel and God
What Jesus did on the cross for us, is that He took the dead sentence away from us. We are under His Blood of the New Covenant.
Luke 22:20
No other Sacrifice is needed. In the Old testament they had to use an Animal for a Sacrifice. Jesus is our perfect sacrifice and no other is needed. But that does not mean that we are now don't sin anymore. And John tells us that if we don't believe that we don't sin, the truth is not in us.
Jesus is our Mediator to go to the Throne of God and ask Him directly to forgive us our sins. In that sense He took away sin.
Peace and Love Irene
God never wanted sacrifice at all.Jeremiah 7
22For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
23But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
Exodus 19:5
5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
1 Samuel 15:21-23
22And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
Hi BD:God provided the sacrifice.
Yes, we come to God with a repentant heart, and I believe that you are trying to do good works, but you are still subject to make mistakes, just as all of us are subject to do so.
The sacrifice that God has given in giving us His Only Begotten Son, covers all of the sins of every one who was striving to obey God from the beginning until Jesus ministry, and it covers the sins of all who come to God with a repentant heart through him since his ministry until he comes for the church.
We are saved because of God's goodness, and not because what we have or have not done.
Love in Christ,
Marty
“We are saved because of God's goodness, and not because what we have or have not done”That is exactly what God told the Israelites before Jesus was sent.
Deuteronomy 9
5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
6 Understand therefore, that the LORD thy God giveth thee not this good land to possess it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiffnecked people.
Hi BD:Before Jesus was sent, under the Law of Moses, when the people sinned, the brought a sacrifice, and it was the blood of the sacrifice that atoned for their sin.
And on the day of atonement, the high priest of the Nation of Israel went into the Holy of Holies into the presence of God with blood for his own sins and with blood for the sins of the nation of Israel.
But the blood of these animals was only symbolic of the sacrifice that God would provide through Jesus. He sacrificed his life having obeyed God without sin in spite of what men could do to him. This then was a perfect sacrifce.
You cannot buy salvation and you cannot earn it. It is a gift from God. Salvation is by faith so that it might be by grace(unmerited favor of God), that is believeing God's testimony regarding God giving His Only Begotten Son so that we can be reconciled to Him.
After we are reconciled to him, God is the Father of our spirit when we have died unto sin and have been raised from the dead(spiritual separation from God) by the Holy Spirit, just as Jesus was raised from the dead. (This is what is meant by being born again). When we have been born again, Jesus is our example for living in right standing with God. But since we make mistakes, we could not be saved without the blood that was shed to wash away our sins when we fall short of perfect obedience.
I hope that this helps you to understand. I love you and want the very best that God has to offer for you and all Muslims.
Love in Christ,
Marty
I love you too
Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 08 2009,10:57) How is it that you can be a sinner if Jesus paid in full the price of sin? If the sins of the world have been taken away what sin remains?
The penalty for sin is what has been removed to those who accept the offered salvation.It is not until we receive the new body that we will be complete. For we are born from above and have a new spirit, but we are still housed in sinful flesh till that flesh perishes.
2 Corinthians 5:1
Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.Till then, those who are born from above struggle with being led by the spirit or flesh. For we have this war raging in our own being. It is important for believers to choose the spirit over the flesh for that is the victory.
For those who are not born from above, they have only the flesh.
I know for me that I could only overcome sin after I was born of the spirit. After that, I had a fighting chance because I no longer had one nature urging me. I still of course have sinful desires, but I also have a desire to be righteous and please God. The key for me is to let the second one take place and that will also take care of the first one.
Galatians 5:16
So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.The New Testament contains much teaching on the spirit and flesh.
John 3:6
Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.Romans 8:14
because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
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