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Quote (Gene @ Nov. 18 2009,11:02) martian……it's been kicked around so much everyone seems to have exhausted themselves on the subject. There appears to be three camps. One believes in the Trinity and Preexistence, another does not believe in the Trinity but believes in the Preexistence of Jesus, while another does not believe in any Trinity or Preexistence Doctrine, I am in that camp. So we just keep going around and around no one seem to change their views , Except some who pass through the site have had many questions answered they never thought of before, So we can say it has produced some fruit and we are to be convencing People in the Millennium Reign of Christ, so may be all these question we deal with will have a future value to us all. IMO peace and love to you and yours…………….gene
i have only been here a short time and noticed that some people here are not trying to search or gain anything except to argue, twist and question and requestion scripture. if they were truely wanting to understand and gain more understanding they would not act this way. Even when scripture is quoted and is to the point, they will still refute and requestion it in another form. that is very sad, and is not the right thing to do if you are a believer of the bible as gods words. but satan wants this thats why there are mans false doctrines being taught and so many sects within the major religions itself, twisting and distorting the word to lead people away from god and the true teachings to follow.Quote (martian @ Nov. 19 2009,06:12) My primary stand centers around the overall plan of God as in clear in scripture.
Many think only of the redemption work of Christ as the plan of God. It is certainly part of the plan but just redeeming man from sin is not the end.
Adam and Eve were not in need of redemption, so one must ask what was God’s original plan before the fall? All through scripture mankind is called children of God. Along with that distinction is the teaching aspects of God’s interaction with man. God continues to compare our actions with those he would do. From these truths it is clear that God desires us to develop character like his.
It is important to understand some things about God’s character. YHWH is the only being in the universe whose character cannot change. God is the height of perfection. Because of this he cannot decide today to be capable of evil. Nor can he suddenly become less then immortal. This causes question because we do not know what a human being is supposed to be like with the character of God.
The redeeming work of Christ is simply the legal means by which we can become part of God’s plan again. We stand clear of sin after repentance. As far as the East from the West. The blood is effective. We are forgiven from our sins of the past, present and future. Once the blood of the lamb is applied to us it is time to get up wash our face and continue along God’s plan.
That plan is to perfect the saints in character, motives and intentions.
For this portion of the plan it was necessary to produce an example for us to understand what human being looks like with all the character of God developed in them. Jesus was perfected by what he suffered for his own sake and for ours. Jesus completed the plan that God set into motion with the creation of Adam and Eve. He is the second Adam. The one that fulfilled what God started to complete with Adam.
With Jesus as a completed perfected human we have a High Priest that knows all the pitfalls of the journey to perfection. A High Priest that we can talk to and use as our mediator between us and God. A judge that knows our limitations and frailities.We need the redemption work of Christ to allow us to “legally” be part of the plan of God
We need the example of Jesus as a perfected human to see how and what a completed human looks like.
martian……Amen, Amen, to that post brother, RIGHT ON!Peace and love to you and yours brother…………………gene
Quote (Gene @ Nov. 20 2009,04:37) Quote (martian @ Nov. 19 2009,06:12) My primary stand centers around the overall plan of God as in clear in scripture.
Many think only of the redemption work of Christ as the plan of God. It is certainly part of the plan but just redeeming man from sin is not the end.
Adam and Eve were not in need of redemption, so one must ask what was God’s original plan before the fall? All through scripture mankind is called children of God. Along with that distinction is the teaching aspects of God’s interaction with man. God continues to compare our actions with those he would do. From these truths it is clear that God desires us to develop character like his.
It is important to understand some things about God’s character. YHWH is the only being in the universe whose character cannot change. God is the height of perfection. Because of this he cannot decide today to be capable of evil. Nor can he suddenly become less then immortal. This causes question because we do not know what a human being is supposed to be like with the character of God.
The redeeming work of Christ is simply the legal means by which we can become part of God’s plan again. We stand clear of sin after repentance. As far as the East from the West. The blood is effective. We are forgiven from our sins of the past, present and future. Once the blood of the lamb is applied to us it is time to get up wash our face and continue along God’s plan.
That plan is to perfect the saints in character, motives and intentions.
For this portion of the plan it was necessary to produce an example for us to understand what human being looks like with all the character of God developed in them. Jesus was perfected by what he suffered for his own sake and for ours. Jesus completed the plan that God set into motion with the creation of Adam and Eve. He is the second Adam. The one that fulfilled what God started to complete with Adam.
With Jesus as a completed perfected human we have a High Priest that knows all the pitfalls of the journey to perfection. A High Priest that we can talk to and use as our mediator between us and God. A judge that knows our limitations and frailities.We need the redemption work of Christ to allow us to “legally” be part of the plan of God
We need the example of Jesus as a perfected human to see how and what a completed human looks like.
martian……Amen, Amen, to that post brother, RIGHT ON!Peace and love to you and yours brother…………………gene
thanks Gene, I know you and I agree on many subjects. I am curious about other's opinion of my stand.Quote (martian @ Nov. 20 2009,08:28) Quote (Gene @ Nov. 20 2009,04:37) Quote (martian @ Nov. 19 2009,06:12) My primary stand centers around the overall plan of God as in clear in scripture.
Many think only of the redemption work of Christ as the plan of God. It is certainly part of the plan but just redeeming man from sin is not the end.
Adam and Eve were not in need of redemption, so one must ask what was God’s original plan before the fall? All through scripture mankind is called children of God. Along with that distinction is the teaching aspects of God’s interaction with man. God continues to compare our actions with those he would do. From these truths it is clear that God desires us to develop character like his.
It is important to understand some things about God’s character. YHWH is the only being in the universe whose character cannot change. God is the height of perfection. Because of this he cannot decide today to be capable of evil. Nor can he suddenly become less then immortal. This causes question because we do not know what a human being is supposed to be like with the character of God.
The redeeming work of Christ is simply the legal means by which we can become part of God’s plan again. We stand clear of sin after repentance. As far as the East from the West. The blood is effective. We are forgiven from our sins of the past, present and future. Once the blood of the lamb is applied to us it is time to get up wash our face and continue along God’s plan.
That plan is to perfect the saints in character, motives and intentions.
For this portion of the plan it was necessary to produce an example for us to understand what human being looks like with all the character of God developed in them. Jesus was perfected by what he suffered for his own sake and for ours. Jesus completed the plan that God set into motion with the creation of Adam and Eve. He is the second Adam. The one that fulfilled what God started to complete with Adam.
With Jesus as a completed perfected human we have a High Priest that knows all the pitfalls of the journey to perfection. A High Priest that we can talk to and use as our mediator between us and God. A judge that knows our limitations and frailities.We need the redemption work of Christ to allow us to “legally” be part of the plan of God
We need the example of Jesus as a perfected human to see how and what a completed human looks like.
martian……Amen, Amen, to that post brother, RIGHT ON!Peace and love to you and yours brother…………………gene
thanks Gene, I know you and I agree on many subjects. I am curious about other's opinion of my stand.
Hi Martian:I agree with this as well.
Love in Christ,
MartyGene and 942767,
I could use your support on another forum I am engaged in.
I have half a dozen philosophers and trinitarians accosting me.
The forum name is Christian Forums. you can google it.
The main section in question is in the apologetics and the thread name is “is Jesus considered to be God.”
Come on in. I would be curious as how you would answer them.martian………..i went there but could not find the thread i will try again. Another person who could supply a lot is CT
peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
Quote (Gene @ Nov. 21 2009,03:45) martian………..i went there but could not find the thread i will try again. Another person who could supply a lot is CT peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
This should helphttp://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=42258&st
Quote (martian @ Nov. 21 2009,04:15) Quote (Gene @ Nov. 21 2009,03:45) martian………..i went there but could not find the thread i will try again. Another person who could supply a lot is CT peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
This should helphttp://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=42258&st
If you say that Jesus is not God too many times over there you will most likely end up being banned.Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 21 2009,04:32) Quote (martian @ Nov. 21 2009,04:15) Quote (Gene @ Nov. 21 2009,03:45) martian………..i went there but could not find the thread i will try again. Another person who could supply a lot is CT peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
This should helphttp://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=42258&st
If you say that Jesus is not God too many times over there you will most likely end up being banned.
Yes I have run into their double standard already.
It reminds me of my cable TV being cut off. There goes that form of entertainment.
BUT —- I can always find another forum and another cable company. LOLMartian wrote:
Quote Many think only of the redemption work of Christ as the plan of God. It is certainly part of the plan but just redeeming man from sin is not the end.
God does not necessarily share his total plan with us and with that I am content. I believe that God is still working or creating mankind and Adam and Eve were unfinished products. When he is done this words that man is a very good creation will be proved true.
Martian wrote:
Quote The redeeming work of Christ is simply the legal means by which we can become part of God’s plan again.
We never stopped being a part of his plan as we have at most been artwork that is in the process of being refined.
Martian wrote:
Quote For this portion of the plan it was necessary to produce an example for us to understand what human being looks like with all the character of God developed in them.
Jesus is a prototype that also serves as an example for us. He is a prototype in that it is through obeying all his commands that we receive his Spirit to replace the perverse spirit we have.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 21 2009,09:59) Martian wrote: Quote Many think only of the redemption work of Christ as the plan of God. It is certainly part of the plan but just redeeming man from sin is not the end.
God does not necessarily share his total plan with us and with that I am content. I believe that God is still working or creating mankind and Adam and Eve were unfinished products. When he is done this words that man is a very good creation will be proved true.
Martian wrote:
Quote The redeeming work of Christ is simply the legal means by which we can become part of God’s plan again.
We never stopped being a part of his plan as we have at most been artwork that is in the process of being refined.
Martian wrote:
Quote For this portion of the plan it was necessary to produce an example for us to understand what human being looks like with all the character of God developed in them.
Jesus is a prototype that also serves as an example for us. He is a prototype in that it is through obeying all his commands that we receive his Spirit to replace the perverse spirit we have.
close enoughQuote (martian @ Nov. 21 2009,05:10) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 21 2009,04:32) Quote (martian @ Nov. 21 2009,04:15) Quote (Gene @ Nov. 21 2009,03:45) martian………..i went there but could not find the thread i will try again. Another person who could supply a lot is CT peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
This should helphttp://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=42258&st
If you say that Jesus is not God too many times over there you will most likely end up being banned.
Yes I have run into their double standard already.
It reminds me of my cable TV being cut off. There goes that form of entertainment.
BUT —- I can always find another forum and another cable company. LOL
That was really funny
You are certainly someone who is an advanced thinker which always leads to great comprehension and that is not what that site is about.
I have joined many many sites over the last 4-5 years I have been banned from all of them except maybe 3. Atheist sites have banned me from presenting the argument of God existing in a way that made certain atheist doubt whether they are atheist or want to continue to be atheist
Simply because I used a term called INHERENT CONSCIOUSNESS meaning anything that exists has to have a form inherent so we could not be conscious unless there was Consciousness already before us.
I have been banned from evolution sites because of a simple phrase I created called Synchronistic Random Mutations which I explained for sexual evolution to occur you would have to have SRMs but the fact is SRMs don't exist in nature.
Anyway God bless you!
Quote (martian @ Nov. 21 2009,02:33) Gene and 942767,
I could use your support on another forum I am engaged in.
I have half a dozen philosophers and trinitarians accosting me.
The forum name is Christian Forums. you can google it.
The main section in question is in the apologetics and the thread name is “is Jesus considered to be God.”
Come on in. I would be curious as how you would answer them.
Hi Martian:I prefer to stay out of this at this time. They won't listen unless someone speaks to them from a position of authority.
Maybe some will listen then.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Nov. 21 2009,13:37) Quote (martian @ Nov. 21 2009,02:33) Gene and 942767,
I could use your support on another forum I am engaged in.
I have half a dozen philosophers and trinitarians accosting me.
The forum name is Christian Forums. you can google it.
The main section in question is in the apologetics and the thread name is “is Jesus considered to be God.”
Come on in. I would be curious as how you would answer them.
Hi Martian:I prefer to stay out of this at this time. They won't listen unless someone speaks to them from a position of authority.
Maybe some will listen then.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Luke 16:30-31 (King James Version)30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 21 2009,13:35) Quote (martian @ Nov. 21 2009,05:10) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 21 2009,04:32) Quote (martian @ Nov. 21 2009,04:15) Quote (Gene @ Nov. 21 2009,03:45) martian………..i went there but could not find the thread i will try again. Another person who could supply a lot is CT peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
This should helphttp://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=42258&st
If you say that Jesus is not God too many times over there you will most likely end up being banned.
Yes I have run into their double standard already.
It reminds me of my cable TV being cut off. There goes that form of entertainment.
BUT —- I can always find another forum and another cable company. LOL
That was really funny You are certainly someone who is an advanced thinker which always leads to great comprehension and that is not what that site is about.
I have joined many many sites over the last 4-5 years I have been banned from all of them except maybe 3. Atheist sites have banned me from presenting the argument of God existing in a way that made certain atheist doubt whether they are atheist or want to continue to be atheist
Simply because I used a term called INHERENT CONSCIOUSNESS meaning anything that exists has to have a form inherent so we could not be conscious unless there was Consciousness already before us.
I have been banned from evolution sites because of a simple phrase I created called Synchronistic Random Mutations which I explained for sexual evolution to occur you would have to have SRMs but the fact is SRMs don't exist in nature.
Anyway God bless you!
My favorite for evos is that if you take their theory back for enough they have to admit that something came from nothing. this is not something they want to admit.OR
TO QUOTE A MOVIE — ASK THEM JUST HOW MANY OF THEIR RELATIVES ARE MONKEYS?
Of course you could just tell them that they are living proof that monkeys did indeed mate with donkeys.
LOLQuote (martian @ Nov. 22 2009,01:22) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 21 2009,13:35) Quote (martian @ Nov. 21 2009,05:10) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 21 2009,04:32) Quote (martian @ Nov. 21 2009,04:15) Quote (Gene @ Nov. 21 2009,03:45) martian………..i went there but could not find the thread i will try again. Another person who could supply a lot is CT peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
This should helphttp://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=42258&st
If you say that Jesus is not God too many times over there you will most likely end up being banned.
Yes I have run into their double standard already.
It reminds me of my cable TV being cut off. There goes that form of entertainment.
BUT —- I can always find another forum and another cable company. LOL
That was really funny You are certainly someone who is an advanced thinker which always leads to great comprehension and that is not what that site is about.
I have joined many many sites over the last 4-5 years I have been banned from all of them except maybe 3. Atheist sites have banned me from presenting the argument of God existing in a way that made certain atheist doubt whether they are atheist or want to continue to be atheist
Simply because I used a term called INHERENT CONSCIOUSNESS meaning anything that exists has to have a form inherent so we could not be conscious unless there was Consciousness already before us.
I have been banned from evolution sites because of a simple phrase I created called Synchronistic Random Mutations which I explained for sexual evolution to occur you would have to have SRMs but the fact is SRMs don't exist in nature.
Anyway God bless you!
My favorite for evos is that if you take their theory back for enough they have to admit that something came from nothing. this is not something they want to admit.OR
TO QUOTE A MOVIE — ASK THEM JUST HOW MANY OF THEIR RELATIVES ARE MONKEYS?
Of course you could just tell them that they are living proof that monkeys did indeed mate with donkeys.
LOLOne of the starting places for the dual nature and Trinitarian philosophies is dualism
For those unfamiliar with this term, dualism is a Greek Philosophy that states that there are two realms in our existence. The higher scared spiritual realm and the lower fallen natural Earthly realm. This belief degrades the natural or secular realm as lesser in importance and makes the spiritual sacred realm the one to seek.
If you ask the common Christian what could be the highest calling in life, many would answer to be in the ministry or doing work in some sacred capacity. Others would preface answering by asking if they can include their faith in the choices. They have already compartmentalized their secular and sacred worlds in to two separate lives. This separation can sometimes take the form of separating the man himself in the higher soul/spirit man and the lower natural body. This in spite of the fact that all three are to be redeemed. Our so-called lower bodies are changed but we will have them in heaven.
At times the dualist will separate the soul and the spirit and we’ll see the soul as corrupted and the spirit as in a higher plane of existence. They will struggle all their lives to drag their lower soul up to the higher plane of the spirit.
Dualism is a form of Gnosticism. A broader term for this type of philosophy. Gnosticism and dualism are the breeding ground for the concepts of the dual nature of Christ and the Trinity.
Greek philosophy and the Greek way of thinking had its final victory over the Eastern culture about 200AD. Greek thinking philosophers were getting saved and bringing in with them the concepts of these beliefs. Gnostics carried with them a pride in proclaiming a mysterious belief system and having knowledge only they could posses. They had “truths” that went beyond the lower Earthly reason or rational.
Dualists made a clear distinction between the sacred and the secular. Teaching that Christ could not be of the lower Earthly realm because that would indicate he was also fallen. This was based on a belief that everything was fallen in this realm. Even new born children carried the stain of sin even though they had never sinned themselves. This in spite of the fact that God clearly states that the sins of the father would not be passed onto the child.
From the dualists came the belief that Christ could not be human but had to be augmented in some way and the Gnostics could draw a prideful satisfaction from being the ones that had this higher understanding that went beyond the lower Earthly rationale.All of these philosophical models are foreign to the Hebrew mind and view of the universe. They should be foreign to the Christian that desires to know God and become like him.
God does not live in some separate sacred spiritual realm apart from us. God lives in and through his creation, including man. When Adam was created God breathed the “breath” of life into him. This word breath in the Hebrew carries several meanings in it. It can mean character, life, or guidance. In the case of Adam it is all three. Adam was created with the seeds of God’s character in him. They were immature and not tested but present. He also became a living creature by the breath. Job speaks of the breath returning to God upon death. That breath is the animating force that gives us life. It is part and parcel of God himself. This breath or spirit was established in us to help guide us on our journey through life. Our conscience is a great part of this guiding factor.
The center piece of God’s creation is mankind. All of the Earth and the universe was created to house mankind. It is the place in which we undertake our journey to YHWH. To the Hebrews it has always been about the journey and not necessarily about the destination. The Hebrew word translated commandment literally means directions toward Zion. The Torah was a teaching tool to help us along the way. The commandments sign post on where to travel. The wind/breath is a guiding force to help give us direction. Perhaps we need another trip around the wilderness or another triumph at Jericho. God knows what is best for our personal journey. Dualism attempts to deny us the journey through our natural realm. A journey that God intended to mature us. Dualists teach us to see little or no value in the physical natural realm and to seek a journey in some metaphysical transedental spiritual realm. A realm that does not require the rationale or reason that God built in us. A realm that is shrouded in mystique and guided by mystery. A realm that for the most part separates us from God, with only the occasional visit either way. Instead of God being an EVER PRESENT help in time of need, He is taught to be outside of the realm in which we live and need help.All of mankind are children of God. Some are more obedient then others. some are lost on their journey. some have purposely avoided the path and sign posts attempting to blaze their own trail. God deals with all of them in personal ways to guide along the path they are on and others to get them back on the right path. some might be experiencing circumstances placed specifically for them and others are just experiencing the circumstances of life. God works for good in all of it.
God desires to live vicariously in and through His creation., specifically humanity. Unlike the created universe we are created in the image of God and after his likeness. We have the emotional structure of God and the ability to sense his presence and guiding breath/wind. We have within us the animating breath of God and the seeds of his character implanted within. God desires to shine through our personalities like the facet of a Gem, each shining forth the character of God through our individual (God created) personalities. When God finished creating man he said “it is good”. The word good in the Hebrew means functional. That potential for functionality still exists in every child born. The fall did not destroy it. sometime after birth the conscious choices of man curtail or limit our functionality. In other words we don’t work like we should within God’s economy. Were we to all work correctly the world would be set right. Were we to all work as the intellegent designer intended things would be different.
Jesus too is a child of God. Different in that he is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON of God. He is made like his brethren in every way. (human) Jesus never made a choice to stray from the path. This is a magnificent accomplishment for a human. If he was a God it would not be a big deal. To God the life of this man was precious because of his accomplishment. Death reigned over man from Adam to Jesus, but because of willingness of one man righteousness now prevails. We now because of his sacrifice and example have the right to undertake our personal journey and the example to show us how to do it.
In short the fundamentals of dualism sidetrack us into seeking a realm we already dwell in. Jesus said the Kingdom of God is here. Our seeking another place is actually separating us from the Kingdom of God. Instead of seeking with our own knowledge of Good and Evil to find God somewhere else we need to invite more of God into where we are. Accepting the vulnerability required to allow God to live in and through us as the child of God that we all are.
Jesus’ redemptive work gave us a right to travel the path.
Jesus’ example gives us the know how to travel it.Quote (martian @ Nov. 22 2009,06:43) One of the starting places for the dual nature and Trinitarian philosophies is dualism
For those unfamiliar with this term, dualism is a Greek Philosophy that states that there are two realms in our existence. The higher scared spiritual realm and the lower fallen natural Earthly realm. This belief degrades the natural or secular realm as lesser in importance and makes the spiritual sacred realm the one to seek.
If you ask the common Christian what could be the highest calling in life, many would answer to be in the ministry or doing work in some sacred capacity. Others would preface answering by asking if they can include their faith in the choices. They have already compartmentalized their secular and sacred worlds in to two separate lives. This separation can sometimes take the form of separating the man himself in the higher soul/spirit man and the lower natural body. This in spite of the fact that all three are to be redeemed. Our so-called lower bodies are changed but we will have them in heaven.
At times the dualist will separate the soul and the spirit and we’ll see the soul as corrupted and the spirit as in a higher plane of existence. They will struggle all their lives to drag their lower soul up to the higher plane of the spirit.
Dualism is a form of Gnosticism. A broader term for this type of philosophy. Gnosticism and dualism are the breeding ground for the concepts of the dual nature of Christ and the Trinity.
Greek philosophy and the Greek way of thinking had its final victory over the Eastern culture about 200AD. Greek thinking philosophers were getting saved and bringing in with them the concepts of these beliefs. Gnostics carried with them a pride in proclaiming a mysterious belief system and having knowledge only they could posses. They had “truths” that went beyond the lower Earthly reason or rational.
Dualists made a clear distinction between the sacred and the secular. Teaching that Christ could not be of the lower Earthly realm because that would indicate he was also fallen. This was based on a belief that everything was fallen in this realm. Even new born children carried the stain of sin even though they had never sinned themselves. This in spite of the fact that God clearly states that the sins of the father would not be passed onto the child.
From the dualists came the belief that Christ could not be human but had to be augmented in some way and the Gnostics could draw a prideful satisfaction from being the ones that had this higher understanding that went beyond the lower Earthly rationale.All of these philosophical models are foreign to the Hebrew mind and view of the universe. They should be foreign to the Christian that desires to know God and become like him.
God does not live in some separate sacred spiritual realm apart from us. God lives in and through his creation, including man. When Adam was created God breathed the “breath” of life into him. This word breath in the Hebrew carries several meanings in it. It can mean character, life, or guidance. In the case of Adam it is all three. Adam was created with the seeds of God’s character in him. They were immature and not tested but present. He also became a living creature by the breath. Job speaks of the breath returning to God upon death. That breath is the animating force that gives us life. It is part and parcel of God himself. This breath or spirit was established in us to help guide us on our journey through life. Our conscience is a great part of this guiding factor.
The center piece of God’s creation is mankind. All of the Earth and the universe was created to house mankind. It is the place in which we undertake our journey to YHWH. To the Hebrews it has always been about the journey and not necessarily about the destination. The Hebrew word translated commandment literally means directions toward Zion. The Torah was a teaching tool to help us along the way. The commandments sign post on where to travel. The wind/breath is a guiding force to help give us direction. Perhaps we need another trip around the wilderness or another triumph at Jericho. God knows what is best for our personal journey. Dualism attempts to deny us the journey through our natural realm. A journey that God intended to mature us. Dualists teach us to see little or no value in the physical natural realm and to seek a journey in some metaphysical transedental spiritual realm. A realm that does not require the rationale or reason that God built in us. A realm that is shrouded in mystique and guided by mystery. A realm that for the most part separates us from God, with only the occasional visit either way. Instead of God being an EVER PRESENT help in time of need, He is taught to be outside of the realm in which we live and need help.All of mankind are children of God. Some are more obedient then others. some are lost on their journey. some have purposely avoided the path and sign posts attempting to blaze their own trail. God deals with all of them in personal ways to guide along the path they are on and others to get them back on the right path. some might be experiencing circumstances placed specifically for them and others are just experiencing the circumstances of life. God works for good in all of it.
God desires to live vicariously in and through His creation., specifically humanity. Unlike the created universe we are created in the image of God and after his likeness. We have the emotional structure of God and the ability to sense his presence and guiding breath/wind. We have within us the animating breath of God and the seeds of his character implanted within. God desires to shine through our personalities like the facet of a Gem, each shining forth the character of God through our individual (God created) personalities. When God finished creating man he said “it is good”. The word good in the Hebrew means functional. That potential for functionality still exists in every child born. The fall did not destroy it. sometime after birth the conscious choices of man curtail or limit our functionality. In other words we don’t work like we should within God’s economy. Were we to all work correctly the world would be set right. Were we to all work as the intellegent designer intended things would be different.
Jesus too is a child of God. Different in that he is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON of God. He is made like his brethren in every way. (human) Jesus never made a choice to stray from the path. This is a magnificent accomplishment for a human. If he was a God it would not be a big deal. To God the life of this man was precious because of his accomplishment. Death reigned over man from Adam to Jesus, but because of willingness of one man righteousness now prevails. We now because of his sacrifice and example have the right to undertake our personal journey and the example to show us how to do it.
In short the fundamentals of dualism sidetrack us into seeking a realm we already dwell in. Jesus said the Kingdom of God is here. Our seeking another place is actually separating us from the Kingdom of God. Instead of seeking with our own knowledge of Good and Evil to find God somewhere else we need to invite more of God into where we are. Accepting the vulnerability required to allow God to live in and through us as the child of God that we all are.
Jesus’ redemptive work gave us a right to travel the path.
Jesus’ example gives us the know how to travel it.
Did you write that? It was written very well and it was a very good piece, I enjoyed it thoroughly.
Quote (martian @ Nov. 14 2009,04:18) These following two or the most important questions. How does the doctrine of the preexistence help me become more like Christ?
How does the doctrine of the Preexistence build hope in my heart?
First off, whether he pre-existed or not doesn't change our love for God in any way. It is only that scripture demonstrates this and that if we are a people of truth, will just accept the truth.You could ask exactly the same questions if you take the opposing side.
How does the doctrine of the non-preexistence help me become more like Christ?
How does the doctrine of the non-Preexistence build hope in my heart?One more point.
God demonstrated his love toward us in that he sent his only begotten for us. Let's for argument sake say that Jesus was created on the spot for the job of saving men. Then what price is that? If he failed, God could make another one.
But God sent the one whom he loved and loves. The one by whom he made all things. The one that was before Abraham and the one that had glory with the Father before the world begun.
See how priceless he is now. God spent no expense in saving us.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 22 2009,08:54) Quote (martian @ Nov. 14 2009,04:18) These following two or the most important questions. How does the doctrine of the preexistence help me become more like Christ?
How does the doctrine of the Preexistence build hope in my heart?
First off, whether he pre-existed or not doesn't change our love for God in any way. It is only that scripture demonstrates this and that if we are a people of truth, will just accept the truth.You could ask exactly the same questions if you take the opposing side.
How does the doctrine of the non-preexistence help me become more like Christ?
How does the doctrine of the non-Preexistence build hope in my heart?One more point.
God demonstrated his love toward us in that he sent his only begotten for us. Let's for argument sake say that Jesus was created on the spot for the job of saving men. Then what price is that? If he failed, God could make another one.
But God sent the one whom he loved and loves. The one by whom he made all things. The one that was before Abraham and the one that had glory with the Father before the world begun.
See how priceless he is now. God spent no expense in saving us.
Why do you think God calls Israel His FIRSTBORN?
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