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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 11 2009,17:05) Hi RFC,
Do you think Jesus came to draw attention and worship to himself or to enable men to come into relationship with his God?
I believe that Jesus did all that He did in obedience to the Father, and to open a way for all of us to enter into a right relationship with the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I also believe that Jesus did all that He did to open a way for His fallen creation to be redeemed.Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 11 2009,18:44) Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 11 2009,18:39) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 11 2009,18:34) Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 11 2009,18:16) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 11 2009,18:02) The Son of YAHWEH Became the Son of Man So that We, the Sons of Man, May Become the Sons of YAHWEH Here are 60 Bible texts which prove conclusively that Yeshua was NOT YAHWEH, but RATHER the SON of YAHWEH. [If in fact He WAS YAHWEH, (as trinitarians would want us to believe), He could not have really died; and the act of paying the Ransom would merely have been a hoax!]
Matthew 3:16-17; 8:29; 11:27; 12:18; 14:33; 16:16; 17:5; 27:54
Mark 5:7; 15:39
Luke 1:32; 8:28; 9:35; 10:22
John 1:18; 1:34; 1:49; 3:16; 5:19-23; 6:40; 6:69; 8:42; 10:15; 11:4; 12:49-50; 14:13; 14:23; 14:28; 16:17; 17:1-26
Acts 2:22-24; 3:13; 3:26; 9:20
Romans 1:4; 5:10; 8:13; 8:29-32
1 Corinthians 11:3; 15:28
2 Corinthians 1:19
Galatians 4:4
Colossians 1:13
1 Thessalonians 1:10
Hebrews 1:2; 4:14; 5:8; 7:3; 11:17
2 Peter 1:17
1 John 1:3; 1:22; 3:23; 4:10; 4:14-15; 5:6; 5:11-12
2 John 1:9
Revelation 2:8Since these texts exist in Yahweh's Word, the Gospel story has been told over and over again. However, it could NOT be told if Yeshua had really been Yahweh and the ransom had not actually been paid! YAHWEH CAN”T DIE!
Hello Constitutionalist,Nice to meet you.
And yet the same bible says,
John 10:27-30
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”Love ya,
Chris
And that statement makes Yeshua HaMashiach into Yahweh”?Because he was given authority? Or He was one with the Father?
John 10:30 I and Father are one.
John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Are you Yahweh? (John 17:21) You are “one” in them.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we.
John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, one shepherd.
John 32:39 And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
Zechariah 4:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Because there are many members in one body, doesn't make them any the less one body. All the scriptures you shared only go further to affirm my beliefs. That you don't understand that is sad to say the least. However, that you don't understand doesn't make it any the less truth.Love ya,
Chris
By your implications that I do not understand cements your conclusion as truth?You said absolutly nothing in your last comment except “Your right and I am wrong”.
and you proved whole heartedly that you do not understand by making this about one being right and another wrong.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 11 2009,18:51) Hi RFC,
If you are devoted to God then abide in the scriptures[2Jn9]
There is no trinity taught in scripture but only in the books of men.Best to go back to the source=scripture.
Nick,I do abide in the scriptures. If you are devoted to God, maybe you could consider making suggestions, rather than making demands as though you have some right to do so. Either way, I will make my own choices. But you will probably get farther with people and have better relationships with people if you stop making demands of them and let them make their own choices. I'm pretty sure the scriptures don't voice anything about you having the right to demand something of someone else.
“If you are devoted to God then abide in the scriptures”
Love ya,
ChrisQuote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 11 2009,17:34) Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 15 2009,22:20) Quote Where did you find these odd ideas?
In church.My daughter attends a Baptist church on Wednesday nights (their AWANA group for kids). They are currently teaching on the Trinity. It makes absolutely no sense to my daughter!! I am remaining quiet. I'm listening and observing her. She is frustrated with head in hand as she tries to do the lesson. She comes to me many times asking such things as, “Isn't a Dad supposed to be older than the kid?”. Yup. And, “How can Jesus be God when the bible says that the Father is God. If the Father is God, than Jesus is the Son – they are two people…..”. It just goes on and on.
Where do people get these ideas? Indoctrination.
I'm explaining to my daughter about the seed and fruit. It is possible to spit out the seed and enjoy the fruit. Now she's not so stressed about understanding something that makes no sense to her mind.
Hello Mandy,I could say that I am surprised at some of the responses to your post, but the truth is, I'm not. I have to admit that some of the responses are disturbing, considering that you are dealing with your child. Mandy, I would like to ask a question first, and then depending on your answer, I might better know how best to respond. Here's the question.
Do you love Jesus?
I'll wait for your answer.
thanks
Hello Rancher,
I like your question…it is an important one. Welcome to Heaven.net! I look forward to your input. As for Mandy answering you, it seems that she now-a-days is searching far away from this message board so it is unlikely that she will see your question for a while anyway. I'm sure she would appreciate our prayers for her to be encouraged in the Lord while she is away.As for me, I love Jesus and His Father,
Kathi/LU/Lightenup (just pick one)
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 11 2009,19:02) Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 11 2009,17:34) Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 15 2009,22:20) Quote Where did you find these odd ideas?
In church.My daughter attends a Baptist church on Wednesday nights (their AWANA group for kids). They are currently teaching on the Trinity. It makes absolutely no sense to my daughter!! I am remaining quiet. I'm listening and observing her. She is frustrated with head in hand as she tries to do the lesson. She comes to me many times asking such things as, “Isn't a Dad supposed to be older than the kid?”. Yup. And, “How can Jesus be God when the bible says that the Father is God. If the Father is God, than Jesus is the Son – they are two people…..”. It just goes on and on.
Where do people get these ideas? Indoctrination.
I'm explaining to my daughter about the seed and fruit. It is possible to spit out the seed and enjoy the fruit. Now she's not so stressed about understanding something that makes no sense to her mind.
Hello Mandy,I could say that I am surprised at some of the responses to your post, but the truth is, I'm not. I have to admit that some of the responses are disturbing, considering that you are dealing with your child. Mandy, I would like to ask a question first, and then depending on your answer, I might better know how best to respond. Here's the question.
Do you love Jesus?
I'll wait for your answer.
thanks
Hello Rancher,
I like your question…it is an important one. Welcome to Heaven.net! I look forward to your input. As for Mandy answering you, it seems that she now-a-days is searching far away from this message board so it is unlikely that she will see your question for a while anyway. I'm sure she would appreciate our prayers for her to be encouraged in the Lord while she is away.As for me, I love Jesus and His Father,
Kathi/LU/Lightenup (just pick one)
Hello Kathi,Thank you for your comment. I'm sorry to hear that about Mandy, but I'm very glad to hear that you love Jesus and the Father. Me too. It's a pleasure to meet you. Who knows? Maybe Mandy will stop back by one day and we can pray with her. Praise Jesus!
Love ya,
ChrisHi RFC,
There is no trinity taught in scripture so you will need to choose your master.
Catholicism invented that dogma and everyone follows them
.
If you abide in and love the scriptures you will come to hate what is added, like trinity .
Scripture makes many demands and you must obey them.Seek ye first the kingdom of God and every thing else will be added to you.
You must be born again.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 11 2009,18:57) Hi RFC,
Is scripture truth?
God's word is truth. The bible says that the word was with God and the word was God. God's word goes far deeper and broader than the bible alone. God's word is alive and it dwelt among us and lives in us if God's Spirit lives in us.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 11 2009,19:07) Hi RFC, There is no trinity taught in scripture so you will need to choose your master.
Catholicism invented that dogma and everyone follows them
.
If you abide in and love the scriptures you will come to hate what is added, like trinity .
Scripture makes many demands and you must obey them.Seek ye first the kingdom of God and every thing else will be added to you.
You must be born again.
Ya know Nick,The really strange thing about all this is, you have mentioned the trinity over and over again. You can seem to stop talking about the trinity, and yet, I have not once used that word or mentioned trinity. As for Catholicism, not everyone follows them. I certainly don't. As for the scriptures, I abide in God's word and love His word, just as I abide in and love the Father and the Son.
“Scripture makes many demands and you must obey them.” I see that you are still making demands, but the bible does not. I'm sorry that you don't understand the difference between demands and commands. Either way, what I must do is nothing. What I choose to do is obey God, and not man.
Love ya,
ChrisQuote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 12 2009,13:51) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 11 2009,17:05) Hi RFC,
Do you think Jesus came to draw attention and worship to himself or to enable men to come into relationship with his God?
I believe that Jesus did all that He did in obedience to the Father, and to open a way for all of us to enter into a right relationship with the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I also believe that Jesus did all that He did to open a way for His fallen creation to be redeemed.
I have read most of your post and I tell you all you have done here so far is trow your weight around. I like to welcome you, but tell you the truth, those that believe in the trinity doctrine do worship in vain. Why? Because it is a man made doctrine and not of God.
It was Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullian who was born in A.D. 155 to pagan parents and in it is said, that the trinity doctrine was his best ACHIEVEMANT THAT HE MADE TO CHRISTIANITY.
Math.15:9 But in vain do they worship me, teaching for the doctrine the commandment of men.”We on the other hand believe that we have one Father and God ,who is above all, and in us all.
Ephesians 6:41 Corinth. 8:4″And that there is none other God but one.”
Deut. 4:35 :Unto thee it was shewed that thou mightiest knowest that the LORD he is God; there is none beside thee.”
Deut. 6:4 “Hear O Israel; The LORD our God is one LORD.”
1 Thess. 5:21 Tells us:” Prove all things, hold fast that which is good.”
That my friend that we are here for, to prove what we believe. Some have asked you what you believe, but have not told us what you believe.And BTW Nick He is one of the Administrador on Heaven Net Forum, and you should have respect for Him.
We are all here to learn and not just tell others off. That I have only heard from you. Better reconsider your stand.Peace and Love Irene
CON- You quotted “The Father made the universe” What about COL.1;16 (speaking of Jesus) For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, that are in earth, visible and invisible, weather they be thrones, or dominions ,or principalities, or powers; all things were created by Him and for Him(17) And He is before ALL things and by Him ALL things consist!(hmm) Any contradiction there?
Maybe this scripture will help you see God came in the flesh– 1Timothy 3:16 AND WITHOUT CONTROVERSARY GREAT IS THE MYSTERY OF GODLINESS; GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH, JUSTIFIED IN THE SPIRIT, SEEN OF ANDLES, PREACHED UNTO THE GENTILES, BELEIVED ON IN THE WOLRD,RECEIVED UP IN GLORY!!!
Quote (georg @ Nov. 11 2009,19:34) Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 12 2009,13:51) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 11 2009,17:05) Hi RFC,
Do you think Jesus came to draw attention and worship to himself or to enable men to come into relationship with his God?
I believe that Jesus did all that He did in obedience to the Father, and to open a way for all of us to enter into a right relationship with the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I also believe that Jesus did all that He did to open a way for His fallen creation to be redeemed.
I have read most of your post and I tell you all you have done here so far is trow your weight around. I like to welcome you, but tell you the truth, those that believe in the trinity doctrine do worship in vain. Why? Because it is a man made doctrine and not of God.
It was Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullian who was born in A.D. 155 to pagan parents and in it is said, that the trinity doctrine was his best ACHIEVEMANT THAT HE MADE TO CHRISTIANITY.
Math.15:9 But in vain do they worship me, teaching for the doctrine the commandment of men.”We on the other hand believe that we have one Father and God ,who is above all, and in us all.
Ephesians 6:41 Corinth. 8:4″And that there is none other God but one.”
Deut. 4:35 :Unto thee it was shewed that thou mightiest knowest that the LORD he is God; there is none beside thee.”
Deut. 6:4 “Hear O Israel; The LORD our God is one LORD.”
1 Thess. 5:21 Tells us:” Prove all things, hold fast that which is good.”
That my friend that we are here for, to prove what we believe. Some have asked you what you believe, but have not told us what you believe.And BTW Nick He is one of the Administrador on Heaven Net Forum, and you should have respect for Him.
We are all here to learn and not just tell others off. That I have only heard from you. Better reconsider your stand.Peace and Love Irene
That Nick is an admin doesn't change the fact that I will deal honestly with him just as I will with others. That you would suggest that I show him more respect than I show others, also suggest favoritism. Certainly we know that is not what Jesus taught.Irene, I'm not sure what you're doing, but I kinda thought we were all just having a very interesting discussion here.
Might I suggest that you consider making suggestions instead of demands. You know, like, “You better reconsider your stand.”
I like my stand because I stand with Jesus and He with me. Praise Jesus!
Love ya,
ChrisQuote (katjo @ Nov. 11 2009,19:53) Maybe this scripture will help you see God came in the flesh– 1Timothy 3:16 AND WITHOUT CONTROVERSARY GREAT IS THE MYSTERY OF GODLINESS; GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH, JUSTIFIED IN THE SPIRIT, SEEN OF ANDLES, PREACHED UNTO THE GENTILES, BELEIVED ON IN THE WOLRD,RECEIVED UP IN GLORY!!!
Amen Katjo,Nice to meet ya.
THANK YOU!!
Quote (katjo @ Nov. 11 2009,22:53) Maybe this scripture will help you see God came in the flesh– 1Timothy 3:16 AND WITHOUT CONTROVERSARY GREAT IS THE MYSTERY OF GODLINESS; GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH, JUSTIFIED IN THE SPIRIT, SEEN OF ANDLES, PREACHED UNTO THE GENTILES, BELEIVED ON IN THE WOLRD,RECEIVED UP IN GLORY!!!
Hi Katjo,
That is a good verse however you have to realize that the God that was manifest in the flesh is not the God (His Father) who sent Him to be manifest in the flesh.Quote John 8:42
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.
NASUThe Father was not the one that was manifest in the flesh, it was His Son who had His own will-a separate being.
Blessings,
KathiQuote (katjo @ Nov. 12 2009,14:53) Maybe this scripture will help you see God came in the flesh– 1Timothy 3:16 AND WITHOUT CONTROVERSARY GREAT IS THE MYSTERY OF GODLINESS; GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH, JUSTIFIED IN THE SPIRIT, SEEN OF ANDLES, PREACHED UNTO THE GENTILES, BELEIVED ON IN THE WOLRD,RECEIVED UP IN GLORY!!!
Hi KAT,
Indeed God visited His people.
He manifested in the flesh of His son Jesus.Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 11 2009,18:53) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 11 2009,18:44) Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 11 2009,18:39) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 11 2009,18:34) Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 11 2009,18:16) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 11 2009,18:02) The Son of YAHWEH Became the Son of Man So that We, the Sons of Man, May Become the Sons of YAHWEH Here are 60 Bible texts which prove conclusively that Yeshua was NOT YAHWEH, but RATHER the SON of YAHWEH. [If in fact He WAS YAHWEH, (as trinitarians would want us to believe), He could not have really died; and the act of paying the Ransom would merely have been a hoax!]
Matthew 3:16-17; 8:29; 11:27; 12:18; 14:33; 16:16; 17:5; 27:54
Mark 5:7; 15:39
Luke 1:32; 8:28; 9:35; 10:22
John 1:18; 1:34; 1:49; 3:16; 5:19-23; 6:40; 6:69; 8:42; 10:15; 11:4; 12:49-50; 14:13; 14:23; 14:28; 16:17; 17:1-26
Acts 2:22-24; 3:13; 3:26; 9:20
Romans 1:4; 5:10; 8:13; 8:29-32
1 Corinthians 11:3; 15:28
2 Corinthians 1:19
Galatians 4:4
Colossians 1:13
1 Thessalonians 1:10
Hebrews 1:2; 4:14; 5:8; 7:3; 11:17
2 Peter 1:17
1 John 1:3; 1:22; 3:23; 4:10; 4:14-15; 5:6; 5:11-12
2 John 1:9
Revelation 2:8Since these texts exist in Yahweh's Word, the Gospel story has been told over and over again. However, it could NOT be told if Yeshua had really been Yahweh and the ransom had not actually been paid! YAHWEH CAN”T DIE!
Hello Constitutionalist,Nice to meet you.
And yet the same bible says,
John 10:27-30
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”Love ya,
Chris
And that statement makes Yeshua HaMashiach into Yahweh”?Because he was given authority? Or He was one with the Father?
John 10:30 I and Father are one.
John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Are you Yahweh? (John 17:21) You are “one” in them.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we.
John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, one shepherd.
John 32:39 And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
Zechariah 4:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Because there are many members in one body, doesn't make them any the less one body. All the scriptures you shared only go further to affirm my beliefs. That you don't understand that is sad to say the least. However, that you don't understand doesn't make it any the less truth.Love ya,
Chris
By your implications that I do not understand cements your conclusion as truth?You said absolutly nothing in your last comment except “Your right and I am wrong”.
and you proved whole heartedly that you do not understand by making this about one being right and another wrong.
Only by his comment: “That you don't understand that is sad to say the least. However, that you don't understand doesn't make it any the less truth.”rancherforChrist,
How would you imply it?
What allows his implication “that I do not understand”? Because he does? That is a “right and wrong implication”.
What allows his implication “since I do not understand does not make it truth”? Again, since I am not in truth due to my understanding or lack therin, then he makes the implication he has truth (He never allowed a third option). That is a “right and wrong implication”. Only two choices to draw from.
Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 11 2009,17:52) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 11 2009,17:35) Hi RFC,
Exactly.
Why have men made an idol of the Son of God and forgotten the God of Israel?1Jn5.21
Hi Nick,And why would men speak of the Son of God and the God Of Israel as though the two are not one God?
Love ya,
Chris
Son of God is God?Quote (rancherforChrist @ Nov. 11 2009,17:26) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 11 2009,17:20) Hi RFC,
So churches now all around the world worship Jesus instead of his God.
Is that the real plan of God?
Hi Nick,I am intrigued by the way you subtly continue to expose yourself. Nick, churches all around the world worship all kinds of idols that aren't God. However, those who worship Jesus worship very well.
Love ya,
Chris
So it is better to worship the creation instead of the Creator?Just wondering.
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