Jesus Christ is God

Participant

Quote

To Cult Truster.

And again, the same old scriptures are used to prove an incorrect doctrine.

Those scriptures you quote do not and never have taught that Jesus is the Almighty God.

Your faith rests on a certain creedal interpretation of certain scriptures at the expense of hundreds that clearly state that the Father is the ONE TRUE GOD.

This is how cults operate.

Now without going into great detail about the verses you use, I will give you the explanation of one of them.

Above we can see that Jesus is called “Mighty God”. The word in the Hebrew used here is “El” and this word means the following:

polytheism….
the worship of or belief in more than one deity, especially several deities

In your explanation you did exactly what cults do. You explained away the truth.

Mighty God!

Is there another?

You want to say Jesus is mighty God and the Father is almighty God.

How about this…

Rev 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, **the Almighty**.

Rev 1:11
Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send [it] unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Rev 21:
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Rev 22:
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Who is the Alpha and Omega t8?

Nice try but no apples on your watered down version of Isa 9:6.

Why dont you just believe the word t8?

The same word you say is used there for mighty is, “gibbowr”, which means,”strong, mighty”
you are correct.

But check out these scriptures that used the same word…

Jer 20:11
11 But the LORD is with me as a **mighty** terrible one: therefore my persecutors shall stumble, and they shall not prevail: they shall be greatly ashamed; for they shall not prosper: their everlasting confusion shall never be forgotten.

Jer 32:18
17 Ah Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee:
18 Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the **Mighty** God, the LORD of hosts, is his name,

Zeph 3:17
17 The LORD thy God in the midst of thee is **mighty**; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing.

Who is this mighty God t8?

Deut 4:35
Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.

Deut 4:39
39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

I Kings 8:60
That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.

Isa 45:
5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Isa 45:14
…Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God.

Isa 45:18
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

Isa 45:21
…have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me

Isa 45:22
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

Isa 46:9
Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

The Lord went through a lot of trouble to make it known that there is none beside him.

So that leaves us with this…

The Godhead Father Son and Holy Ghost. One God.

Mk 12:
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Jesus said you cant serve two masters…
Matt 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.

I and my father are one…

Jn 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Matt 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Blessings

December 18, 2006 at 4:33 am#34636

Participant

Hi W,
So is the Son of God God?

December 18, 2006 at 4:57 am#34637

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 18 2006,04:23)

polytheism….
the worship of or belief in more than one deity, especially several deities

In your explanation you did exactly what cults do. You explained away the truth.

Mighty God!

Is there another?

You want to say Jesus is mighty God and the Father is almighty God.

How about this…

Rev 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, **the Almighty**.

Rev 22:
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Who is the Alpha and Omega t8?

The Rev 1:8 verse might be the Father Speaking.

Notice Rev 1:4

Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.

So…..grace and peace from the one who is, was, and is to come AND FROM Jesus Christ.

Then we have Rev 1:8:

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord,“who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

This has to be the Father. He comes to us through His Son.

December 18, 2006 at 5:01 am#34638

Participant

Hi sscott,
It is
but trinity theorists cannot abide one brick being taken out of their shaky building lest it falls on them

December 18, 2006 at 6:34 am#34639

Participant

Quote

The Rev 1:8 verse might be the Father Speaking.

Notice Rev 1:4

Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.

So…..grace and peace from the one who is, was, and is to come AND FROM Jesus Christ.

Then we have Rev 1:8:

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord,“who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

This has to be the Father. He comes to us through His Son.

Sscott

But you skipped vs 7 and went right to 8.

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Who is the Alpha and Omega my friend?

Rev 1:
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 1:11
11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven

Rev 22:
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Why make it say something else?

December 18, 2006 at 6:39 am#34640

Participant

Quote

Hi sscott,
It is
but trinity theorists cannot abide one brick being taken out of their shaky building lest it falls on them

Tell me is Jesus the Alpha and Omega?

December 18, 2006 at 6:40 am#34641

Participant

Quote

Hi W,
So is the Son of God God?

NH if you have a son is he human?

December 18, 2006 at 9:29 am#34645

Participant

Hi W,
So you read Jn 1 as “the Word was with God and the Word was divine?”

December 18, 2006 at 12:14 pm#34646

kenrch

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 18 2006,06:40)

Quote

Hi W,
So is the Son of God God?

NH if you have a son is he human?

Jesus is the ONLY begotten of the Father, God's Son. But does that make Him the Father?

Are you your father? No you are OF your father.

Would it be safe to say that Jesus is God of this new creation. He is the first of this new creation. Would it also be safe to say that Jesus will give His kingdom to His Father who is GOD of everything even Jesus.

December 18, 2006 at 4:44 pm#34649

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 18 2006,06:34)

Quote

The Rev 1:8 verse might be the Father Speaking.

Notice Rev 1:4

So…..grace and peace from the one who is, was, and is to come AND FROM Jesus Christ.

Then we have Rev 1:8:

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord,“who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

This has to be the Father. He comes to us through His Son.

Sscott

But you skipped vs 7 and went right to 8.

Rev 1:11
11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven

Rev 22:
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Why make it say something else?

Hi Worshippingjesus,

Yea.. I don't have much of a problem understanding verse 7 in light of verse 4. It's the Father speaking about Jesus in verse 7.

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place.

Here is a verse that give's me problems though. It does seem to contradict other verses. If any “non-trinitarian” can give me an answer for this one it would help:

8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write,
‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life:

This one clearly has to be talking about Jesus…calling Him the first and the last which I would assume is the same thing as the Alpha and Omega.

December 18, 2006 at 5:51 pm#34652

Participant

Quote

Hi W,
So you read Jn 1 as “the Word was with God and the Word was divine?”

How about this.

God and creature, or creation. Nothing else.

Every creature bears after its own kind.

Now since there is nothing that we can compare God too, all we have is scripture.

Godhead= Father Son and Holy Ghost = one true God.

I Cor 8:5-6
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God…
The Father, of whom are all things, and we in him,
The one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

5. John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Compare with…

I Jn 5:20 KJV
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

I Jn 5:20 ESV
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life

I Jn 5:20 NASB
And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

Col 1:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Col 2:
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

II Cor 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

The last I checked, my body is the temple of God!

So I ask you also NH.

Who is that dwelling in you?

December 18, 2006 at 6:04 pm#34654

Participant

Hi W,
If the ONE dwelling in you teaches you from scripture alone and reminds you of the words of Jesus and draws you to abide in the bible then you can know that ONE is the Spirit of God.

Jn 14
16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you….
… 23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”

December 18, 2006 at 6:11 pm#34655

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 18 2006,06:40)

Quote

Hi W,
So is the Son of God God?

NH if you have a son is he human?

Hi W,
Is this flawed greek logic at work?
When God has a son that son must be God?
So God is shown to have many sons in Gen 6, Job 1,2 and 38 so these must all be God too?
ps 89
” 5And the heavens shall praise thy wonders, O LORD: thy faithfulness also in the congregation of the saints.

6For who in the heaven can be compared unto the LORD? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the LORD?

7God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him.”

Certainly they may also be called gods as in 1Cor 8 and Ps 97 and other places but it does not alter the fact that there is only ONE TRUE GOD for us.

1Cor 8
“4As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”

December 18, 2006 at 6:18 pm#34657

Participant

Quote (sscott @ Dec. 18 2006,16:44)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 18 2006,06:34)

Quote

The Rev 1:8 verse might be the Father Speaking.

Notice Rev 1:4

So…..grace and peace from the one who is, was, and is to come AND FROM Jesus Christ.

Then we have Rev 1:8:

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord,“who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

This has to be the Father. He comes to us through His Son.

Sscott

But you skipped vs 7 and went right to 8.

Rev 1:11
11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven

Rev 22:
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Why make it say something else?

Hi Worshippingjesus,

Yea.. I don't have much of a problem understanding verse 7 in light of verse 4. It's the Father speaking about Jesus in verse 7.

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place.

Here is a verse that give's me problems though. It does seem to contradict other verses. If any “non-trinitarian” can give me an answer for this one it would help:

8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write,
‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life:

This one clearly has to be talking about Jesus…calling Him the first and the last which I would assume is the same thing as the Alpha and Omega.

Hi Nick,

Can you explain the verse above?

December 18, 2006 at 6:32 pm#34659

Participant

Hi sscott,
Yashua is the firstborn son.
He will be the last and only Son of man when all his sheep are gathered into Him.

December 18, 2006 at 6:37 pm#34660

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 18 2006,18:32)

Hi sscott,
Yashua is the firstborn son.
He will be the last and only Son of man when all his sheep are gathered into Him.

So you don't think that “First and the Last” is the same as “Alpha and Omega”?

December 18, 2006 at 6:54 pm#34663

Participant

Hi sscott,
Only if scripture says so. Does it?

December 18, 2006 at 7:11 pm#34664

Participant

Hi sscott,
The Son of God is the firstborn of all CREATION.
He has preeminence in all things under God.
He is the first and last in relation to creation.
God is before all things as the source.
Nothing will be after God so God also is first and last, Alpha and Omega

December 18, 2006 at 11:58 pm#34687