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Jeremiah 1:19
They will fight against you but will not overcome you, for I am with you and will rescue you,” declares the LORD.This is what I was talking about, Gene. God says these bolded words to many people many times in the OT. My question is: Do you suppose that the PERSON of God was actually right there, standing beside the person to whom He said these words?
Or do you suppose it was meant metaphorically, as in “Don't worry, I've got your back”?
Gene, it's hard for me to even have a conversation with you because it seems hard for you to even comprehend what I'm saying in the first place. Look at my previous post. Did I ever try to claim that Jesus really said “My God is WITH me” instead of “My God is IN me”? No. I was talking about the OT, yet you can't even comprehend my words. So how can I have a discussion with you? It's like I'm speaking English to someone who only understands French or something.
Try harder to really read what it is I'm actually saying before addressing my posts, okay?
Mike…………..I can't read your mind you could have simple said “OLD” TESTAMENT, but i prefer “ORIGINAL TESTAMENT”. To answer your question , If you got my back the you have to be there to protect me. IF God is with a person he is right there “WITH” them. You say the “PERSON” of GOD as if GOD is a PERSON, when In fact GOD is a SPIRIT and “IS” OMNIPRESENT remember for i am Nye unto you even (IN) you heart and in your mouth. When are you people going to start to believe that is was GOD speaking Through those He was with and (IN) rather Angels or Men. WE are considered by God to be TEMPLES He can INDWELL. “know you not that your bodies (ARE) the Temples of the living GOD” As i have told you before Mike you just don't yet understand what a SPIRIT (IS), it is simpler than you think. God is a Spirit he can be (WITH) you (IN) you and ever present also. The key is understand what Spirit is MIKE> IMO
peace and love……………………………………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 25 2011,09:23) Mike…………..I can't read your mind you could have simple said “OLD” TESTAMENT
I'm sorry, I thought I did mention that I was referring to the OT. My fault.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 25 2011,09:23) To answer your question , If you got my back the you have to be there to protect me. IF God is with a person he is right there “WITH” them.
So you think that God has such a short outstretched arm that He had to personally be right there with Jeremiah to help him?Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 25 2011,09:23) IF God is with a person he is right there “WITH” them. You say the “PERSON” of GOD as if GOD is a PERSON, when In fact GOD is a SPIRIT
“IF God is a person”? You don't even recognize that God is a person, Gene? Oh brother!Gene, does God have His own PERSONALITY? If so, then He is a PERSON.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 25 2011,09:23) Mike you just don't yet understand what a SPIRIT (IS),
Gene, you have said this phrase to so many people so many times on this site. If you ever man up and answer the question from my previous post, you will come to find out that it is YOU who hasn't understood the MANY meanings of “spirit” all this time.Mike……………God is not a “PERSON” God is a SPIRIT, of a person, YAHWEH, if you believe Jesus who said GOd was a Spirit. Spirits are NOT PERSONS they are (IT'S) and there are all kind and “TYPES” of (IT'S) Clean and unclean (IT'S), Let me quote this again for you Mike, “THE LORD (Yahweh) OUR (GOD) IS (ONE) LORD (Yahweh)” Now mike here is you rendition of this , “The GOD our LORD is ONE GOD”. Problem is Mike it does not say what you think it say right?. Even though to US there is but ONE TRUE GOD there are non the less other Gods mentioned in scriptures . God in Hebrew is Elohim meaning more them one it is a Uni+Plural word as I describe it, another words God the total Spirit is a composition of SEVEN SPIRITS the are seven distinct intellects what are in Revelations regarded as the Eyes of the ONE GOD.
The LORD (Yahweh) our GOD is ONE Yahweh> Not one GOD, but to us and Jesus He is the one and only “TRUE” GOD> POWER Yahweh our God controls all seven of those Spirits and sends them out into the whole Earth they are his creative Force and He exercises them with His POWER> When Yahweh said Let (US) create man in OUR IMAGE after our likeness He was speaking to those SEVEN SPIRITS>
Spirit is not a Person, in fact The Father was spoke in FICTITIOUS LANGUAGE according to Jesus, remember I have spoken to you of the Father in a proverbial (fictitious illustrations) language, but a time will come when i will show you plainly of the FATHER.
Agani mike Spirit does not have all kinds of meanings that is your confusion your trying to broadcast on others IMO>
peace and love……………………………………………………………gene
MIke………….For all our benefit, Please list all the MANY MEANINGS you BELIEVE the WORD SPIRIT HAS. LET EXAMINE THEM ONE BY ONE> OK>
peace and love………………………………….gene
Hi all here.
What did Luke mean when he wrote:
'He (Jesus) WILL BE CALLED the SON OF GOD' (Luke 1:35) if Jesus already WAS the SON OF GOD? And at what point in the future after His birth did he BECOME the SON OF GOD?
Luke says that the Holy Spirit WILL come upon Mary…It had not yet done so.
Luke says that the child to be born (he was not yet born) WILL BE HOLY (Will be WHEN IT IS BORN)
Luke says He WILL BE called The Son of God…BECAUSE he will be HOLY.
Adam was also called THE SON OF GOD because he, too, was born (or created) HOLY (until he fell into sin).
Jesus, however, remained holy, and is the ONLY PERSON TO DO SO… Therefore Jesus is the ONLY HOLY SON OF GOD…until the Saints are commissioned in Heaven. Then, they too, will be HOLY SONS OF GOD.”Toby.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 26 2011,12:50) MIke………….For all our benefit, Please list all the MANY MEANINGS you BELIEVE the WORD SPIRIT HAS. LET EXAMINE THEM ONE BY ONE> OK> peace and love………………………………….gene
GeneI have done that and you have called me names ,and never answered to it
So it is always back and forth and never go anywhere
Pierre
Quote (toby @ Dec. 26 2011,15:13) Hi all here. What did Luke mean when he wrote:
'He (Jesus) WILL BE CALLED the SON OF GOD' (Luke 1:35) if Jesus already WAS the SON OF GOD? And at what point in the future after His birth did he BECOME the SON OF GOD?
Luke says that the Holy Spirit WILL come upon Mary…It had not yet done so.
Luke says that the child to be born (he was not yet born) WILL BE HOLY (Will be WHEN IT IS BORN)
Luke says He WILL BE called The Son of God…BECAUSE he will be HOLY.
Adam was also called THE SON OF GOD because he, too, was born (or created) HOLY (until he fell into sin).
Jesus, however, remained holy, and is the ONLY PERSON TO DO SO… Therefore Jesus is the ONLY HOLY SON OF GOD…until the Saints are commissioned in Heaven. Then, they too, will be HOLY SONS OF GOD.”Toby.
TobyWho is Jesus father ?
You surely the son of your father ,right ?Pierre
Quote (toby @ Dec. 26 2011,08:13) Hi all here. What did Luke mean when he wrote:
'He (Jesus) WILL BE CALLED the SON OF GOD' (Luke 1:35) if Jesus already WAS the SON OF GOD? And at what point in the future after His birth did he BECOME the SON OF GOD?
Luke says that the Holy Spirit WILL come upon Mary…It had not yet done so.
Luke says that the child to be born (he was not yet born) WILL BE HOLY (Will be WHEN IT IS BORN)
Luke says He WILL BE called The Son of God…BECAUSE he will be HOLY.
Adam was also called THE SON OF GOD because he, too, was born (or created) HOLY (until he fell into sin).
Jesus, however, remained holy, and is the ONLY PERSON TO DO SO… Therefore Jesus is the ONLY HOLY SON OF GOD…until the Saints are commissioned in Heaven. Then, they too, will be HOLY SONS OF GOD.”Toby.
toby………..Well come to the site………..Good question what does that mean if Jesus was already a Preexisting Son of GOD, and what does this also mean , “THO ART MY SON,(HIS) DAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU,”, if Jesus already existed before the world ever began why should God even make that statement at all. And again I (SHALL) be a FATHER to HIM and HE (SHALL) be a Son unto me” if he already was one. The “SHALL there is a future tense expression, not a past tense one.peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Quote (abe @ Dec. 26 2011,17:56) Hi Gene, Jn. 8:58 Jesus said to them, ” Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am.”
toby……….> Look up the word fro before used there it means in position of importance, and has nothing to do with time of Existence as a Sentinel “BEING” of any kind.peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 25 2011,12:46) Mike……………God is not a “PERSON” God is a SPIRIT, of a person, YAHWEH,
Please explain this statement, Gene.For example, who created the universe? The PERSON Yahweh? Or the “spirit OF Yahweh”? And which one of those two is our God?
Quote (abe @ Dec. 26 2011,00:56) Hi Gene, Jn. 8:58 Jesus said to them, ” Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am.”
That's right. Or, properly translated into the English language:
“Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I have been.”Similar to the way the same words are usually translated in this verse:
John 14:9
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time?”Abe, you're not one of those people who imagine a declaration of Deity in John 8:58, are you?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 27 2011,05:47) Quote (abe @ Dec. 26 2011,00:56) Hi Gene, Jn. 8:58 Jesus said to them, ” Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am.”
That's right. Or, properly translated into the English language:
“Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I have been.”Similar to the way the same words are usually translated in this verse:
John 14:9
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time?”Abe, you're not one of those people who imagine a declaration of Deity in John 8:58, are you?
Hi Mike, The Noted Theologian Thomas Aquinas wrote. There are three persons in One God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, although analogies exist in the created world, it remains a mystery? The Apostle Paul wrote of this God Acts 17:22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. :23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 27 2011,03:50) Quote (abe @ Dec. 26 2011,17:56) Hi Gene, Jn. 8:58 Jesus said to them, ” Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am.”
toby……….> Look up the word fro before used there it means in position of importance, and has nothing to do with time of Existence as a Sentinel “BEING” of any kind.peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene
Hi GeneB.Before abraham was, I was there; I existed.
wakeup.
Wakeup………..Yes Jesus did exist in the Plan and will of God before Abraham but not as a sentential “BEING” Jesus was “PROPHESIED” To come into existence before the foundations of the World but did not exist until his berth on this earth as an actual “BEING” . God said the seed of the women would come and bruise the head of the serpent, He obviously did not already exist or he would not have said the seed from the women. He would have said a MORPHED Angel or GOD or whatever would come, but none of that was said. Why because it had not happened yet . But it was spoken of by GOD and therefore was as sure as if it existed already after God spoke it. The Hebrew thought was if GOD said it, it was as sure as if it already happened.
Here is another example , Cyrus the King WAS PROPHESIED TO COME 200 YEARS BEFORE HE EVER EXISTED, right?. So if Cyrus after he was born said, he was before a King that was 100 years before his berth , he would be talking about his position in the order of things as God spoke of him before the other ever existed even though that other was actually born before Cyrus. Jesus was spoke of before Abraham ever existed, He was in the Plan and Will of GOD and had a more excellent position then Abraham who the Pharisees trusted and they were given him more respect and honor then they were Jesus, and so Jesus was showing them his Position that he was in position before Abraham in importance. That had nothing to do with his actual existence as a Being of any kind.
Wakeup……….Maybe this will help, lets look at those scriptures where all this took place.OK?
John 8:53-58……> Art thou “GREATER” than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?-54..> Jesus answered, If I honor myself, my honor is nothing: it is my Father the honoreth me; of whom you say, that he is your God: -55..> Yet you have not known him: (now notice wakeup what Jesus says and the tense it is said in) “But I “KNOW” Him, (notice a present tense statement not a past tense statement)> If Jesus was talking abut his past he would have said i (Have) KNOWN HIM, but he say I “KNOW HIM” , he is not relating to any past here. ” and if I should say I know (present tense again) him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I “KNOW” Him, (again a present tense statement) and keep his sayings. -56….> Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day (future tense expression) and saw it (all future tense expressions) and was glad. -57…> Then said the Jews unto him, you are not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham ? (the lying Pharisees twisted up everything he said to make it about a time of existence but that was not what Jesus was even talking about at all.)
-58…> Jesus said unto them, verily verily, I say unto you Before Abraham was, I am. this statement does not say I existed as a “BEING” of Some kind now does it? It simply say Jesus was in existence but not what that existence was , Was it a LIVING BEING< and Angel< a GOD or what ?> Making it to means a EXISTING BEING is forcing the text to say what in fact it is not saying , Much like the Pharisees forcing Jesus word to say what in Fact he was not even speaking about that. While they assumed he was talking about his actual existence as a being when Jesus was talking abut his prophesied position of existence that was to come. This was Before Abraham ever existed.
If you follow what i posted you can see where the blind Pharisees totally misunderstood what Jesus meant and so do Trinitarians and Preexistence people today IMO.
peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene
Quote (abe @ Dec. 26 2011,22:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 27 2011,05:47) Quote (abe @ Dec. 26 2011,00:56) Hi Gene, Jn. 8:58 Jesus said to them, ” Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am.”
That's right. Or, properly translated into the English language:
“Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I have been.”Similar to the way the same words are usually translated in this verse:
John 14:9
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time?”Abe, you're not one of those people who imagine a declaration of Deity in John 8:58, are you?
Hi Mike, The Noted Theologian Thomas Aquinas wrote. There are three persons in One God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, although analogies exist in the created world, it remains a mystery? The Apostle Paul wrote of this God Acts 17:22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. :23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
Could you show me the scriptures that support what Thomas Aquinas said?And Paul was saying that the God they attributed “Unknown” to is the God he was teaching them about. Now, who did Paul think was our ONE God? (1 Cor 8:6) And why do you suppose Paul often thanked the God OF our Lord Jesus Christ?
Does God Almighty have a God of His own, Abe? Jesus surely does.
But, about the “I am” of 8:58: Did you know that every time Jehovah claimed to BE Jehovah in the OT, the Hebrew words were “aniy yhwh”? Even IF the “yhwh” part means “I am” (which I doubt, for it is the Hebrew word “to be”, and probably means “I will be”), what do you suppose the “aniy” part means?
I'll tell you. “Aniy” means “I am”. So, if “yhwh” means “I AM”, and “aniy” means “I am”, then it is clear that any time Jehovah claimed to BE “I AM”, He said the words “I am I AM”.
Where in scripture did Jesus ever say the words “I am I AM”?
Abe, “I am” is the most used pronoun/verb combination in any language. How do you conclude from Jesus saying “I am” that he was really saying “I am I AM”?
Food for thought.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 27 2011,03:47) toby………..Well come to the site………..Good question what does that mean if Jesus was already a Preexisting Son of GOD, and what does this also mean , “THO ART MY SON,(HIS) DAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU,”, if Jesus already existed before the world ever began why should God even make that statement at all. And again I (SHALL) be a FATHER to HIM and HE (SHALL) be a Son unto me” if he already was one. The “SHALL there is a future tense expression, not a past tense one. peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Thanks Gene.Sorry, the wording is exactly and as simple as has been explained – 'Before Abraham was, I am'.
Nothing to diagnose there nor pontificate over, analyse nor define. It means exactly what it says and what Jesus meant – and what the Jews understood. That Jesus was saying that he existed before Abraham was born-
(and absolutely nothing to do with trinitarians saying that Jesus was calling himself God!)Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 27 2011,03:50) Quote (abe @ Dec. 26 2011,17:56) Hi Gene, Jn. 8:58 Jesus said to them, ” Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am.”
toby……….> Look up the word fro before used there it means in position of importance, and has nothing to do with time of Existence as a Sentinel “BEING” of any kind.peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene
Hi Gene, Jn. 8:12 Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, ” I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.” Gen. 1:3 And God said, ” Let there be light: and there was light.
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