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Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 13 2011,18:57) Mike yes but do you know why it says that both should be honored ?? and why would Christ be honor has the father ?
Because they BOTH deserve honor from us. But not the SAME honor.I do not honor Jesus with the SAME honor I honor the Father with. I honor Jesus as my Lord and Savior. I honor the Father as my Creator, God, and Savior.
I give them DIFFERENT honor.
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 14 2011,11:29) Hi Mike, I agree with you here.
It's about time you came to your senses, Ed.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 14 2011,09:11) you cant see that when you Honor Jesus you (ARE) Honoring the Father
But not with the SAME honor,Gene.Do you honor Jesus as your GOD to make sure you are honoring the Father as your God?
When you honor Jesus for giving his life as a sacrifice, are you also honoring God for giving HIS life as a sacrifice?
It does not refer to the SAME honor, Gene. By honoring Jesus as the SON, you honor his Father. But you don't honor BOTH the Father and Son with the honor belonging ONLY to the Father. Well, at least I don't.
Gene, your point was that “even as” means “exactly the same”. I have shown you to be inaccurate in this reasoning. Ed has concurred with me.
So your claim about John 17:14 does not mean the disciples came down from heaven as Jesus said he did. Nor does your claim refute the words of Jesus where he directly said, “I came down from heaven”.
Your Lord came down from heaven, Gene. Believe it or don't.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 15 2011,17:54) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 13 2011,18:57) Mike yes but do you know why it says that both should be honored ?? and why would Christ be honor has the father ?
Because they BOTH deserve honor from us. But not the SAME honor.I do not honor Jesus with the SAME honor I honor the Father with. I honor Jesus as my Lord and Savior. I honor the Father as my Creator, God, and Savior.
I give them DIFFERENT honor.
Mikethis is the way I see it ;
Gods as plan and made all of creation when things went wrong God made arragments to fix what can not be fixed by men alone,but so he as reveled his plan to men ,and the glory that comes out of the realization of that plan is his in full ,but in the case of the son ,God as treated him in a special way,he as let the son play a great part in that plan ,and the son volontered to participate in the plan of his father ,so by fully working with his father plan he became the only begotten son,but also he gain supremasy,over all creation ,
so the greates honor goes to the father because his plan to save creation,and a leassor honor goes to Christ for his commitment to the plan of his father ,BUT THE FULL HONOR WILL COME WHEN ALL WILL BE DONE ,THIS CAN NOT BE SEEN YET OR FELED
when we honor Christ for what he ad done so far ,is only giving in part honor to the father ,because the plan is not yet finish,Pierre
To ALL………If anyone can see the FATHER (IN) Jesus they will HONOR the Son EVEN AS they do the FATHER. IMO. Because there is not difference , if a man puts his Will to death and does the Will of God he receives the same Honor as the father because it is the Fathers Will being Done NOT HIS WILL>
“ME AND THE FATHER ARE ONE” He who see the Son see the Father also, He who has the Son has the Father also. IMO
peace and love…………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 15 2011,07:02) a man puts his Will to death and does the Will of God he receives the same Honor as the father
Gene,NO ONE, including you or Jesus, will EVER receive the SAME honor that is due only to our heavenly Father.
His glory is HIS glory alone. And His honor is HIS honor alone.
Mike……….If God Speaks through me himself and does works through me as he did Jesus, If you were to honor me even as you do the Father , you would be honoring the Father (IN) me who was the one doing the works through Me. It was GOD the FATHER (IN) Christ Jesus doing the works that is why Jesus said to honor Him EVEN as you Honor the Father , But it's your Choice to reject Jesus words you do that any way as far as i am concerned You still do not believe GOD the Father was (TRULY) (IN) Christ Jesus either. EVEN though he said it many times.
Here is another one for you Mike,
“For the Father Loves you also EVEN AS He does the Son” Is that another one you disagree with that Jesus said MIKE?
peace and love………………………………………………………….gene
Gene,
It is always YOU who disagrees with Jesus' words…….not us.
Gene, do you give the SAME EXACT honor to Jesus as you give to God Himself? YES or NO?
Mike………….When God the FATHER is doing the Work (IN) anyone I give them the Same HONOR as the FATHER because it is the FATHER Doing the works (IN) that Person. The way it is written is exactly right we Should Hone the Son (EVEN AS WE DO THE FATHER)> So the answer to you question is YES. I honor Jesus Just as I honor the FATHER>
Now answer my question to You . Does God TRULY LOVE US (EVEN AS HE LOVES THE SON)?, Does he love the son differently then he does us MIKE?.
Mike i am not changing the word you are i believe what Jesus said we are to HONOR the SON (EVEN AS) we honor the FATHER”> It is you who disagree with those word not Me. It is you who Change them and say they do not mean what they are saying not me , so why say i am changing his words, when in fact you are to meet you Ideologies. But answer my question to you then MIKE a simple yes or NO will Suffice.
peace and lvoe……………………………………………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 18 2011,10:55) Now answer my question to You . Does God TRULY LOVE US (EVEN AS HE LOVES THE SON)?, Does he love the son differently then he does us MIKE?.
Actually, that's TWO questions, Gene.But the answer to both of them is “YES”. YES, God loves us AND ALSO loves Jesus. And YES, God loves Jesus differently than he loves us. Jesus is His firstborn Son, after all.
Mike so you both agree and disagree with the word “EVEN AS” in that scripture, Well i believe LOVE is LOVE and there is no Difference in LOVE, Peter said He is NO “RESPECTER” of Persons. But you make him a respecter of persons.
Acts 10:34….> Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I percieve that God is (NO) respecter of persons;
peace and love………………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 19 2011,07:42) Mike so you both agree and disagree with the word “EVEN AS” in that scripture…………
No Gene. What I disagree with is your understanding that the words “even as” mean “EXACTLY THE SAME WAY”. They don't.Mike spreads the gospel to people on the street EVEN AS Gene does.
Gene, all that means is that we BOTH speak to people on the street. It doesn't mean we speak to the SAME people, at the SAME time. And Lord knows we wouldn't be speading the SAME gospel, because mine is of the scriptures while yours is of the imaginations of men.
It simply means, Mike does it, Gene ALSO does it.
Just like “You honor the Father. ALSO honor the Son.”
It doesn't mean with the SAME EXACT honor, Gene.
Believe me or don't. I'm done with this subject.
Mike………..The object in question on your misguided reasoning is the word EVEN AS which means the same as and that implies no difference between the Two, in the fact they both Spread the Gospel , what Gospel is not even in question, but the word (THE) is a DEFINITE Article So it is assumed it is the same Gospel or it would have been worded (A) Gospel . The Key word EVEN AS relates to the same way in all cases . But you are right about this I certainly do not read those scriptures as you do, that is for sure , and be assured “YOUR” Gospel is not the LORD Jesus' Gospel or you would believe what He plainly said and Honor Him “EVEN AS” You do the FATHER.
peace and love…………………………………..gene
To All………..> Not one scripture that say Jesus was changed from one state of being to another , by any means what so ever. Still would like to see one SPECIFIC Scripture that say that, if anyone knows any please post it. Not scriptures that can be said to (INFERS) it but actually say it. Grabbing Scriptures and pulling them out of context will not work. That is what ALL TRINITARIANS AND PREEXISTENCE DO JUST FORCE THE TEXT TO MEET THEIR FALSE DOGMAS. IMO
peace and love to you all………………………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 23 2011,22:31) Not one scripture that say Jesus was changed from one state of being to another , by any means what so ever. Still would like to see one SPECIFIC Scripture that say that, if anyone knows any please post it.
John 1
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”
All these things are said about the same person, Gene. In verses 14 and 15, that person is called “The Word”. But in verses 29 and 30, that same person is called “Jesus” and “the Lamb of God”.
Just because you refuse to see it is not to say it isn't right there in plain view for all.
Mike………..The WORD is a TILE NOT a PERSON as you suppose it is, and you have never seen a FLESH WORD or perhaps you have i really don't know your mentality, perhaps you see all kind of words that (ARE) flesh. I can fully understand how the word or LOGOS can be present (IN) Jesus, but him being the WORD that was (IN) Him , himself is stealing Glory from GOD the FATHER who JESUS said was (IN) him doing the works So being you think you are such a Scripture man , please post to us HOW GOD the FATHER was IN HIM Perhaps if you deal with that for a wile it will clear some cob webs out of you mind. IMO
peace and love……………………………………………………………….gene
Gene, Jehovah says things like “You will succeed because I will be WITH you” many times.
What do you suppose that means, Gene? Do you think Jehovah, the person, was standing right beside the men and fighting the enemy along with the soldiers?
YES or NO, Gene?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 24 2011,12:13) Mike………..The WORD is a TILE NO a PERSON as you suppose it is,
But you've just admitted in the Pre-existence thread that “the Word” is the title OF a person, right?Do you agree with your own words, Gene? In Rev 19:13, is “the Word” a title of a real live PERSON? YES or NO?
MIke …………..Jesus said God the Father was IN HIM Now you say God the father was with HIM , seems we have a contradiction of scriptures, or you are not preconceiving it properly becasue Jesus said it many time, that the Father was (IN) HIM, why do you deny Jesus words so strongly is there a problem with them for you. Being with someone is not the same as being (IN) them now is it MIKE?
peace and love………………………………………………………..gene
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