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Hi david,
I would like to know if the JWs believe in the need for baptism in water and the Spirit that you say was so important for the first believers. If not what has changed?“Unless anyone is born from water and spirit,” Jesus explains, “he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
This is part of the reason we've been talking about what the kingdom of God is. This “heavenly kingdom” is made up of the holy ones who receive the kingdom.In the “kingdom of God” thread, I asked:
“WILL A LITTLE NUMBER OF PEOPLE MAKE UP THE KINGDOM?”
Your responce:
“YES I BELIEVE FEW WILL BE IN THE FIRST RESURRECTION OR RAPTURED,”These few or this little flock that make up the kingdom as heirs with Christ are a distinct group that go to …. heaven, for a purpose. OK, you don't think they go to heaven. But we both agree that a little number of people make up this kingdom.
So look at Jesus words again.
The first believers were all annointed, all Jesus' brothers. So yes, they all had to be baptized in water and spirit.
Since it's only a limited number of people that make up this kingdom, it's only a little number, (a little flock) that would need to be baptized in water and spirit.
What has happened is that less and less of the annointed are on earth and more and more of the great crowd are on the scene.
dave
Hi dave,
The gate is still open for as many as wish to join the anointed sons of God. God wants everyone to be saved. It is only men who imagine barriers.Quote (david @ Sep. 08 2005,07:45) “Unless anyone is born from water and spirit,” Jesus explains, “he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
This is part of the reason we've been talking about what the kingdom of God is. This “heavenly kingdom” is made up of the holy ones who receive the kingdom.In the “kingdom of God” thread, I asked:
“WILL A LITTLE NUMBER OF PEOPLE MAKE UP THE KINGDOM?”
Your responce:
“YES I BELIEVE FEW WILL BE IN THE FIRST RESURRECTION OR RAPTURED,”These few or this little flock that make up the kingdom as heirs with Christ are a distinct group that go to …. heaven, for a purpose. OK, you don't think they go to heaven. But we both agree that a little number of people make up this kingdom.
So look at Jesus words again.
The first believers were all annointed, all Jesus' brothers. So yes, they all had to be baptized in water and spirit.
Since it's only a limited number of people that make up this kingdom, it's only a little number, (a little flock) that would need to be baptized in water and spirit.
What has happened is that less and less of the annointed are on earth and more and more of the great crowd are on the scene.
dave
hi david,
So who knows if they are in the little flock or not. Who decides? Who should seek to be born again?
All should I would say from scriptural evidence.We don't have to be part of that kingdom, that heavenly government to be saved. We don't have to be the rulers in that government to be saved.
There are others Nick, others who this kingdom rule over.
You have stated that not very many people make up that kingdom.
This “heavenly kingdom” will rule “over the earth.”
(I know your bible says “on” the earth, but as has been shown in another post, that really doesn't fit with how the same word is translated in other places.)YES, God would like it if everyone was saved.
But making up that government that will rule over the earth is not the only way to be saved. If there is a government, there is a people that it rules over.That kingdom has a purpose Nick. Those who make up that kingdom do so for a reason.
How do I get one of those avatars?
Hi david,
Those who have not already passed from death to life can still be saved. They will not be resurrected till after the 1000 yr reign in the second resurrection. Then they will not know if they are a sheep or a goat till they find out at the judgement. Risky business. That is why in Hebrews 4 we are urged to make sure of our election.Jehovah Witnesses are like any other denomination. It is the work of men. They too are part of Mystery Babylon, the mother of false religion.
All denominations are a distraction from truth. They are prisons and their walls are doctrines of men and tradition. That is why they lack the power of God and why they are all divided one against another.
Come out of her MY PEOPLE. You can be one in Spirit with each other and God and his son. It is really simple that even a child can do it. But beware of the leaven of the Pharisees.
All denominations contain some truth. That is how the hook you. Give you some truth and hook you with the lies.
Hey t8.
Nice instument of death you have in your hands there. Well chosen.
Just kidding. Actually, I like your avatar too. I need a better one.Anyway, if you think “Jehovah's Witnesses are like any other denomination,” you haven't been around very long. The trinity seems to be where this website started. As you should know, we don't believe God is a trinity. Is that like “any other denomination” t8? I don't see any posts up here about baptists, evengelicals, etc, etc, etc…. So it seems on your forum, Jehovah's Witnesses aren't “like any other denomination.” They certainly aren't in their beliefs either.
If you and Nick and the other people that believe just as you do came together would you reject yourself as another denomination?
You're right, the religions of the world are “all divided one against another.” Have you checked this forum lately? This forum is a little version of the world. Are the people of this forum any more united than the religions of the world? There would be no discussion if it was. What does this prove? What doesn't it prove?
And if the religions of the world are all divided against one another, what does that have to do with Jehovah's Witnesses anyway? As a group, we are extremely united. We are separate from the world's religions and ways.“All denominations are a distraction of truth,” you say.
“All denominations contain some truth,” you say.hmmmmm
I'm wondering what truth the Jehovah's Witnesses have, in your opinion.
david
On page 1 of “faith and works” thread, Nick said to t8:
“You misunderstand t8. Yes we need faith, yes we need works..but they are not what saves us but obedience to the simple demands that faith leads us to.”
I'm not really sure where we've been discussing this Nick, but time and again I've been trying to highlight the fact that if you are truly one of Jesus followers, you would have actions or fruits to back up that claim. Whenever I say something like that, you say:'Where are the miracles?' Or, 'are you born again?'
Your words above make the point I was trying to show you.
There are “simple demands” that we must obey. If we have faith, we will follow Jesus' words.
Yes, you must be born again of water and spirit….to enter into the kingdom of the heavens.
Those few holy ones who are Jesus brothers, and joint heirs with him in this heavenly kingdom do indeed need to be born again of water and spirit.Quote (david @ Sep. 13 2005,00:34) Yes, you must be born again of water and spirit….to enter into the kingdom of the heavens.
Those few holy ones who are Jesus brothers, and joint heirs with him in this heavenly kingdom do indeed need to be born again of water and spirit.
Hi david,
The Spirit of Yahweh.The people who make up this kingdom are not the only ones who will be saved. They are chosen to make up this kingdom for a purpose Nick–to rule, and judge and be priests.
So when it says: You must be born again of water and spirit to enter the kingdom of the heavens, that is exactly what it is saying and nothing more.
Quote (david @ Sep. 13 2005,07:29) The people who make up this kingdom are not the only ones who will be saved. They are chosen to make up this kingdom for a purpose Nick–to rule, and judge and be priests. So when it says: You must be born again of water and spirit to enter the kingdom of the heavens, that is exactly what it is saying and nothing more.
Hi david,
Do the JWs go through the gate of Yeshua? Are they born again of the waters of baptism and the baptism in the Spirit of YHWH?So Elijah has you speaking hebrew now?
As I've said several times now, those who make up the kingdom (heavenly government) must be born again as you know. Those few holy ones who have been “bought from the earth” make up this kingdom, along with Jesus (Yeshua).
Those who make up this little flock will rule over the earth. They are born again.Hi david,
So that excludes the JWs who must wait in hope for the mercy of YHWH in the second resurrection?
It does seem ironic that the Jews so respected the name of YHWH that they substituted Adonai,and now those who do not use the true descriptive name are labelled evildoers!
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