ISM Scale

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 14 2013,20:33)

Terricca……….2besee, sure does understand what he is saying , it is you and others Preexistences and Trinitarians, who haven't a clue to what scriptures actually saying. You need to listen more and talk less if you as me.  IMO gene

gene

in four years ,you have been shown many truth ,but it seems you do not care beside what you can understand and what you want to understand ,so to be a nice guy ,I would say you really do not have anything I want ,and it looks that you have the same attitude towards me ,so lets leave it at that ,but some advise you should look at your clock it as stopped ,it does not give you any service ,

anyone that supported you will also going backwards

[GeneBalthrop]

Terricca………..Well as for you, your clock it never started if you ask me, so you play with the deck you have no matter how many cards are missing it appears to me and others here I might add. Your four years of confusion and distortion of scriptures is all you have brought here . I was sent another Email this morning of another person leaving the site ,thanks to you and your accusatory spirit. IMO

gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ Aug. 13 2013,20:52)

This is only so that your can justify John 1:1 as being two Gods, rather than one God.

Oh, I KNOW it is about two gods.  Any idiot can see that from the words “the Word was WITH God”.

Even the 25 TRINITARIAN scholars of NETNotes say:
The construction in John 1:1c does NOT equate the Word with the person of God (this is ruled out by 1:1b, “the Word was with God”)

The only reason I have invested so much time and effort in showing you guys that the scriptures are full of other, less high gods is so YOU can use that other SCRIPTURAL precedence to drag yourselves over to the ONLY logical understanding of John 1:1 and 1:14.

But you go on believing that the ONLY LITERAL GOD IN ALL OF EXISTENCE was with the ONLY LITERAL GOD IN ALL OF EXISTENCE.  And then that ONLY LITERAL GOD IN ALL OF EXISTENCE somehow became flesh.  And when he did, he didn't dwell on earth with the glory of the ONLY LITERAL GOD IN ALL OF EXISTENCE, but instead with the glory of the only begotten Son of God.  

And I'll just go on rolling my eyes in disbelief.

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 15 2013,03:53)

Terricca………..Well as for you, your clock it never started if you ask me, so you play with the deck you have no matter how many cards are missing it appears to me and others here I might add. Your four years of confusion and distortion of scriptures is all you have brought here . I was sent another Email this morning of another person leaving the site ,thanks to you and your accusatory spirit. IMO gene

gene

if people leaving the site ,it is not because of me ,but because they do not have anything to say that has a value ,in truth ,

just like you ;in four years you have said the same things over and over ,denying and denying ,truth in scriptures even when they are in plain written words ,

so you are well set in your ways ,what ever they may be but I haven seen no scripture value in them.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 14 2013,06:37)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 13 2013,13:36) There is but one true Lord. Are the other lords false? I'll take that point a step farther: The same writer that said, for us there is but one God, the Father also said, and one Lord, Jesus Christ. Is Jesus Christ REALLY the ONLY Lord we as Christians have?  YES or NO? The only HONEST answer is “NO”. Let that soak in for a while, children.  I'm out of this discussion.

Mike,

To further your point.

Since Jesus is the Lord does that mean God is no longer the Lord.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 15 2013,09:03)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 15 2013,03:53) Terricca………..Well as for you, your clock it never started if you ask me, so you play with the deck you have no matter how many cards are missing it appears to me and others here I might add. Your four years of confusion and distortion of scriptures is all you have brought here . I was sent another Email this morning of another person leaving the site ,thanks to you and your accusatory spirit. IMO gene gene if people leaving the site ,it is not because of me ,but because they do not have anything to say that has a value ,in truth , just like you ;in four years you have said the same things over and over ,denying and denying ,truth in scriptures even when they are in plain written words , so you are well set in your ways ,what ever they may be but I haven seen no scripture value in them.

T,

You sound Judgmental as does Gene sounds presumptuous as neither of you know the reason or reasons while people in general leave the site.

You do say things that serve no purpose but the seaming to make people less than they are. I hope that is not your intention so watch yourself and pray.

[kerwin]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 15 2013,03:53)

Terricca………..Well as for you, your clock it never started if you ask me, so you play with the deck you have no matter how many cards are missing it appears to me and others here I might add. Your four years of confusion and distortion of scriptures is all you have brought here . I was sent another Email this morning of another person leaving the site ,thanks to you and your accusatory spirit. IMO gene

Gene,

Is that the reason they gave you?

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 15 2013,11:04)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 15 2013,09:03) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 15 2013,03:53) Terricca………..Well as for you, your clock it never started if you ask me, so you play with the deck you have no matter how many cards are missing it appears to me and others here I might add. Your four years of confusion and distortion of scriptures is all you have brought here . I was sent another Email this morning of another person leaving the site ,thanks to you and your accusatory spirit. IMO gene gene if people leaving the site ,it is not because of me ,but because they do not have anything to say that has a value ,in truth , just like you ;in four years you have said the same things over and over ,denying and denying ,truth in scriptures even when they are in plain written words , so you are well set in your ways ,what ever they may be but I haven seen no scripture value in them. T, You sound Judgmental as does Gene sounds presumptuous as neither of you know the reason or reasons while people in general leave the site. You do say things that serve no purpose but the seaming to make people less than they are.  I hope that is not your intention so watch yourself and pray.

K

I use to have an old car and put in many new parts ,it is not that I wanted to do this ,but my budget was the reason for it ,

at one point the mechanic told me to get a new car or a better one ;but I still kept the old one because my budget,

then one day my budget grew and the first thing i did is going to buy a new car,and i was happy to out of costly weekly bills,(time wasted to fix it )

sins then I have made sure I could always drive either a new or late car to stay out of this type of trouble ,this way allowed me to have a better grip on my own time and worry free that when I turn the key on on it goes ,

you see Kerwin ,many people still driving old cars for some reason or another their is nothing wrong with it ,but do not try to sell the idea that driving an old car and depend on it is a very good way to go ,this I despise,because it is for hidden reasons that that person would do it ,and so it is with Gene and his old forced ideas on the interpretation of scriptures

I only can judged the words he writes ,not the man ,God will do that

[GeneBalthrop]

Kerwin………. The only ones forcing scriptures is Preexistences and Trinitarians . Jesus said you don't put “old wine” in new skins, lest they burst and both the wine and the skins are lost. They and their ch-harts are putting old Protestant and Catholic Trinitarians teachings, Into old skins of false religion . Both will be destroyed . IMO and others I might add.

Kerwin , yes I was told he was part of the reason he is leaving the site among other reason also.

peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 15 2013,23:34)

Kerwin………. The only ones  forcing scriptures is Preexistences and Trinitarians . Jesus said you don't put “old wine” in new skins, lest they burst and both the wine and the skins are lost. They and their ch-harts are putting old Protestant and Catholic Trinitarians teachings, Into old skins of false religion . Both will be destroyed . IMO and others I might add. Kerwin , yes I was told he was part of the reason he is leaving the site among other reason also. peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene

g

whoever it is ,he leaves for his own reasons never for anyone else ,because accusing some else for your own lack of knowledge is a poor way to excuse yourself ,and so you are blaming others for your own doing ,

Just like the Pharisees left Jesus alone after a while because they could not stand face to face with him in scriptures ,SO THE ONLY THING TO DO FOR THEM IS TO PLOT JESUS DEAD IN THE DARK AND SINISTER WAY,

THE MOTTO OF SATAN CANNOT BRING THEM ON MY SIDE KILL THEM

[2besee]

Mike,

“For there is one theos and one mediator between man (anthrópos) and theos, the man (anthrópos) Jesus Christ.”

As you can see, there is only one theos, and one mediator who is not called theos, but is called man (anthrópos), and that is inline with all other scriptures.

You, and others, including Trinitarians and Binitarians cannot say “There is only one theos and one mediator who is anthrópos, as the anthrópos between anthrópos and theos, because both of you deny one theos, either making it two or three theos in combination, or, as you and Terraricca would have it, one theos of many theos. And all three groups say that Jesus is not ananthrópos (flesh).

The anti Christ denies the Father (one theos) and the Son (anthrópos, Lord, Son), and again this is confirmed when John repeats that the antichrist denies the flesh (man).

As it is written, the world loves it's own.

Despite the separations and squabbles, the world of Trinty, and Arianism (JWs), and now Binity (Thriving through the television, and free booklets from the Armstrong branches) are a part of our world. And those who say that Yahweh is the only true God, and Yahshua is the only true Lord, and was a man, are not accepted, as can be seen as a witness here, and on almost every other Internet forum, church or group, where they would be banished.

False teachings crept into the church a long time ago, and could only get worse, as was foretold.

Islam, on the other hand, denies the Son, and denies that he is their Lord. They deny the scriptures and truth of the Lord, and do not preach Christ and him crucified, but peach another Christ.

What is worse? Denying the one God only, or denying the Son?

It seems both are as bad as each other.

Just shows why there are so many problems, and so much hypocracy, and why Jesus needs to put an end to it, once and for all.

As for people not understanding John 1:1,
I was shown…

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

As for me and my family, we will serve the one God Yahweh, and preach the one Lord Jesus Christ!

There is so much to learn still, and much to do. I am only a babe.

I have enjoyed my time here because, I have learned so much! And met some amazingly interesting people.

Peace.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 14 2013,22:57)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 14 2013,06:37) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 13 2013,13:36) There is but one true Lord. Are the other lords false? I'll take that point a step farther: The same writer that said, for us there is but one God, the Father also said, and one Lord, Jesus Christ. Is Jesus Christ REALLY the ONLY Lord we as Christians have?  YES or NO? The only HONEST answer is “NO”. Let that soak in for a while, children.  I'm out of this discussion. Mike, To further your point. Since Jesus is the Lord does that mean God is no longer the Lord.

Exactly Kerwin!

The fact that Paul EMPHATICALLY states that Jesus is our ONLY lord does not dismiss his LITERAL statement about there being MANY lords.

The “MANY lords” part is the LITERAL part of the statement, and can be proven from scripture because there ARE many lords.  That makes the “one lord, Jesus Christ” part of the statement an EXAGGERATED, or EMPHATICAL statement designed to place Jesus ABOVE the other “MANY lords”.

And in this case, since he lists the Father as “God” in apposition to Jesus as “our one Lord”, the Father is obviously not included in those “MANY lords” that Jesus is higher than. “God” > “Lord” in this explanation of the hierarchy we serve.

I'm quite sure all of them can understand this simple and logical reasoning.  But they have personal wishes that prohibit them from using that same logical reasoning on the “god” part of the same statement.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ Aug. 15 2013,18:12)

You, and others, including Trinitarians and Binitarians cannot say “There is only one theos and one mediator who is anthrópos, as the anthrópos between anthrópos and theos, because both of you deny one theos, either making it two or three theos in combination, or, as you and Terraricca would have it, one theos of many theos. And all three groups say that Jesus is not ananthrópos (flesh).

Actually, I CAN say that.  See my last post to Kerwin.  I am able to understand that Jesus is not LITERALLY our ONLY lord, and that certain statements in scriptures are meant to be taken as EMPHATICAL statements.  To do otherwise would be to make scriptures contradict themselves, 2B.

For example, “many lords” would directly CONTRADICT “one lord Jesus Christ” if we were to take both claims LITERALLY.

Just like “one god” would CONTRADICT about a thousand scriptures, including “Jehovah is the God OF gods”, if we were to take it LITERALLY.

And I have no problem with the fact that the MAN who died for our sins is now the mediator between God and man.  He is no longer a man.  Again, to believe that Jesus is STILL a human being in heaven, ruling at the right hand of God, is to put MANY scriptures into CONTRADICTION with themselves.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (2besee @ Aug. 16 2013,11:12)

Mike, “For there is one theos and one mediator between man (anthrópos) and theos, the man (anthrópos) Jesus Christ.” As you can see, there is only one theos, and one mediator who is not called theos, but is called man (anthrópos), and that is inline with all other scriptures. You, and others, including Trinitarians and Binitarians cannot say “There is only one theos and one mediator who is anthrópos, as the anthrópos between anthrópos and theos, because both of you deny one theos, either making it two or three theos in combination, or, as you and Terraricca would have it, one theos of many theos. And all three groups say that Jesus is not ananthrópos (flesh). The anti Christ denies the Father (one theos) and the Son (anthrópos, Lord, Son), and again this is confirmed when John repeats that the antichrist denies the flesh (man). As it is written, the world loves it's own. Despite the separations and squabbles, the world of Trinty, and Arianism (JWs), and now Binity (Thriving through the television, and free booklets from the Armstrong branches) are a part of our world. And those who say that Yahweh is the only true God, and Yahshua is the only true Lord, and was a man, are not accepted, as can be seen as a witness here, and on almost every other Internet forum, church or group, where they would be banished. False teachings crept into the church a long time ago, and could only get worse, as was foretold. Islam, on the other hand, denies the Son, and denies that he is their Lord. They deny the scriptures and truth of the Lord, and do not preach Christ and him crucified, but peach another Christ. What is worse? Denying the one God only, or denying the Son? It seems both are as bad as each other. Just shows why there are so many problems, and so much hypocracy, and why Jesus needs to put an end to it, once and for all. As for people not understanding John 1:1, I was shown… 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. As for me and my family, we will serve the one God Yahweh, and preach the one Lord Jesus Christ! There is so much to learn still, and much to do. I am only a babe. I have enjoyed my time here because, I have learned so much! And met some amazingly interesting people. Peace.

2besee……..You have it EXACTLY RIGHT BROTHER. What they do not understand, it is their views that create contradictory scriptures, not what we believe. God is indeed the GOD of all those FALSE MAN MADE GODS no matter what or who they are, and that Does not contradict any scriptures at all. But their saying God is not empathic concerning what he says about finding NO OTHER GOD'S, is what is contradictory to scriptures, not what we are saying. Not to mention Jesus tell us that, GOD IS ONLY TRUE GOD. How could God be the “ONLY” TRUE GOD, IF there are OTHER “TRUE” GOD'S. These IDOLATORS can't seem to explain those words of Jesus, they seem not to be able to understand, the word “ONLY” means there are NO OTHER ?”TRUE” GOD, but there are many FALSE God's that these deceived preachers claim as “TRUE” . IMO

Peace and love to you and your brother…………………………gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 16 2013,09:34)

Quote (2besee @ Aug. 16 2013,11:12) Mike, “For there is one theos and one mediator between man (anthrópos) and theos, the man (anthrópos) Jesus Christ.” As you can see, there is only one theos, and one mediator who is not called theos, but is called man (anthrópos), and that is inline with all other scriptures. You, and others, including Trinitarians and Binitarians cannot say “There is only one theos and one mediator who is anthrópos, as the anthrópos between anthrópos and theos, because both of you deny one theos, either making it two or three theos in combination, or, as you and Terraricca would have it, one theos of many theos. And all three groups say that Jesus is not ananthrópos (flesh). The anti Christ denies the Father (one theos) and the Son (anthrópos, Lord, Son), and again this is confirmed when John repeats that the antichrist denies the flesh (man). As it is written, the world loves it's own. Despite the separations and squabbles, the world of Trinty, and Arianism (JWs), and now Binity (Thriving through the television, and free booklets from the Armstrong branches) are a part of our world. And those who say that Yahweh is the only true God, and Yahshua is the only true Lord, and was a man, are not accepted, as can be seen as a witness here, and on almost every other Internet forum, church or group, where they would be banished. False teachings crept into the church a long time ago, and could only get worse, as was foretold. Islam, on the other hand, denies the Son, and denies that he is their Lord. They deny the scriptures and truth of the Lord, and do not preach Christ and him crucified, but peach another Christ. What is worse? Denying the one God only, or denying the Son? It seems both are as bad as each other. Just shows why there are so many problems, and so much hypocracy, and why Jesus needs to put an end to it, once and for all. As for people not understanding John 1:1, I was shown… 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. As for me and my family, we will serve the one God Yahweh, and preach the one Lord Jesus Christ! There is so much to learn still, and much to do. I am only a babe. I have enjoyed my time here because, I have learned so much! And met some amazingly interesting people. Peace. 2besee……..You have it EXACTLY RIGHT BROTHER.  What they do not understand, it is their views that create contradictory scriptures, not what we believe. God is indeed the GOD of all those FALSE MAN MADE GODS no matter what or who they are, and that Does not contradict any scriptures at all. But their saying God is not empathic concerning what he says about finding NO OTHER GOD'S, is what is contradictory to scriptures,  not what we are saying. Not to mention Jesus tell us that,  GOD  IS ONLY TRUE GOD. How could God be the “ONLY” TRUE GOD, IF there are OTHER “TRUE” GOD'S. These IDOLATORS can't seem to explain those words of Jesus, they seem not to be able to  understand, the word “ONLY” means there are NO OTHER ?”TRUE” GOD, but there are many FALSE God's  that these deceived preachers  claim as “TRUE” . IMO Peace and love to you and your brother…………………………gene

g

Quote

2besee……..You have it EXACTLY RIGHT BROTHER.

hummmm,

Quote

As you can see, there is only one theos

Gene /2bee

what is the true meaning of the word “THEOS” in the Greek Koene ? and is it as the same meaning as the word “EL ” in hebrew do you know

[kerwin]

Mike,

Quote

Again, to believe that Jesus is STILL a human being in heaven, ruling at the right hand of God, is to put MANY scriptures into CONTRADICTION with themselves.

Why don't you conclude Jesus is a man in heaven and that you are understanding those other apparently contradictory passages in the wrong way?

[mikeboll64]

You mean aside from the obvious fact that a flesh human being has no place in the spiritual realm of heaven and could not possibly sit right beside God who dwells in unapproachable light?

How about “no man has seen God at anytime”? These words were written twice by John years AFTER Jesus was exalted to heaven.

(And yes, I know that you'll point out it says “no one”, but who do you suppose John was talking about? Angels or human beings?)

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 18 2013,23:42)

You mean aside from the obvious fact that a flesh human being has no place in the spiritual realm of heaven and could not possibly sit right beside God who dwells in unapproachable light?   How about “no man has seen God at anytime”?  These words were written twice by John years AFTER Jesus was exalted to heaven. (And yes, I know that you'll point out it says “no one”, but who do you suppose John was talking about?  Angels or human beings?)

Mike,

We are speaking of resolving conflicts like flesh being saved and flesh and blood not entering the reign of God. In some way both are true.  To me flesh is saved by becoming immortal and mortal flesh cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.  On the other hand some believe that the flesh that is saved is figurative and it is all flesh that cannot enter the reign of God.

I also see the soul as inherently human and if it was the body of a dog the result would be a human wearing a dog body.   You on the other hand seem to believe that the body makes the person and so the man would become a dog.

Scripture states Mosses saw God face to face and yet no one but the Son has seen God.  i see that as Mosses saw God's prescience and the Son sees the deep things of God.  So even the angels have not seen the deep things of God. I am not sure how you resolve this apparent conflict.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 16 2013,15:31)

The fact that Paul EMPHATICALLY states that Jesus is our ONLY lord does not dismiss his LITERAL statement about there being MANY lords. The “MANY lords” part is the LITERAL part of the statement, and can be proven from scripture because there ARE many lords. That makes the “one lord, Jesus Christ” part of the statement an EXAGGERATED, or EMPHATICAL statement designed to place Jesus ABOVE the other “MANY lords”. And in this case, since he lists the Father as “God” in apposition to Jesus as “our one Lord”, the Father is obviously not included in those “MANY lords” that Jesus is higher than. “God” > “Lord” in this explanation of the hierarchy we serve. I'm quite sure all of them can understand this simple and logical reasoning. But they have personal wishes that prohibit them from using that same logical reasoning on the “god” part of the same statement.

This is the truth. Either hear it or close your ears.

[abe]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 19 2013,02:49)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 16 2013,15:31) The fact that Paul EMPHATICALLY states that Jesus is our ONLY lord does not dismiss his LITERAL statement about there being MANY lords. The “MANY lords” part is the LITERAL part of the statement, and can be proven from scripture because there ARE many lords.  That makes the “one lord, Jesus Christ” part of the statement an EXAGGERATED, or EMPHATICAL statement designed to place Jesus ABOVE the other “MANY lords”. And in this case, since he lists the Father as “God” in apposition to Jesus as “our one Lord”, the Father is obviously not included in those “MANY lords” that Jesus is higher than.  “God” > “Lord” in this explanation of the hierarchy we serve. I'm quite sure all of them can understand this simple and logical reasoning.  But they have personal wishes that prohibit them from using that same logical reasoning on the “god” part of the same statement. This is the truth. Either hear it or close your ears.

Hi T8,

(Quote)
This is the truth.

Jn.9:35   Jesus heard that they had put him(born blind) out, and finding him, He said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?”
36 He answered, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?”
37 Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.”
38 And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him.
39 And Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind.”
40 Those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these things and said to Him, “We are not blind too, are we?” 41Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say,   We see,'   your sin remains.

2Cor.4:3   And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled  In them   that perish:
4    In  whom  the  god of this world  hath   Blinded the minds of the Unbelieving, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn upon them .

Rev.22:14   Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. 15Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the   Idolaters,  and everyone who loves and practices lying.

Peace…………………………….

[Author]

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