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To all…….all the human twisting of scriptures to make other Gods only leads to Idolatry, these false teachers tell us that John was so stupid that he simply forgot to use the word Jesus in his writings, so how they describe him as a word. Anyone with half of a brain knows a man and his words are one an the same and God and his words are one and the same thing also.
Not to even mention, God himself said he looked for other gods and found none not even one, but these dreamers find all kind of other Gods making our TRUE God is a liar, I guess they think they are smarter then God himself, not to even mention, Jesus in prayer clearly said for thou art the “only” “true” God. Now even a half Witt, can understand if Jesus said our God was the “only true” God all other must be “False Gods. The apostle Paul also confirms that to by say, even though there are many “so-called” Gods, but unto us “Converted Christians” there is “ONLY ONE GOD”.
These bold dreamers change scriptures to meet their own preconceived ideas, they change words an meanings to fit there dogmas, even denying Gods very own words that he himself said. They change Jesus to a God and separate him from his humanity, and in so doing they rob God of his work in humanity in JESUS, and his power to prefect human beings , they distort the example of the perfected man Jesus, and move him away from us, presenting him not as brother to us, but a God. These false teachers are preaching their Doctrine of SEPARATION . Jesus is and always was a Son of man from his berth even until now , He is a son of God , just as all who have the Spirit of the Living God “in” them are. We are call joint heirs of his, and scripture say he is the first born OF MANY BRETHREN They do not truly believe Jesus is our brother, nor that he is a human being , but Jesus said when the SON OF MAN RETURNS but they say he is not a son of man any longer, but Jesus didn't see it that way.
My advice to you all is, not be taken in by these false teacher who trample and twist up the truth of Gods word to satisfy their false teachings. IMO
Peace and love to all the ISRAEL of GOD…………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 12 2013,08:28) To all…….all the human twisting of scriptures to make other Gods only leads to Idolatry, these false teachers tell us that John was so stupid that he simply forgot to use the word Jesus in his writings, so how they describe him as a word. Anyone with half of a brain knows a man and his words are one an the same and God and his words are one and the same thing also. Not to even mention, God himself said he looked for other gods and found none not even one, but these dreamers find all kind of other Gods making our TRUE God is a liar, I guess they think they are smarter then God himself, not to even mention, Jesus in prayer clearly said for thou art the “only” “true” God. Now even a half Witt, can understand if Jesus said our God was the “only true” God all other must be “False Gods. The apostle Paul also confirms that to by say, even though there are many “so-called” Gods, but unto us “Converted Christians” there is “ONLY ONE GOD”.
These bold dreamers change scriptures to meet their own preconceived ideas, they change words an meanings to fit there dogmas, even denying Gods very own words that he himself said. They change Jesus to a God and separate him from his humanity, and in so doing they rob God of his work in humanity in JESUS, and his power to prefect human beings , they distort the example of the perfected man Jesus, and move him away from us, presenting him not as brother to us, but a God. These false teachers are preaching their Doctrine of SEPARATION . Jesus is and always was a Son of man from his berth even until now , He is a son of God , just as all who have the Spirit of the Living God “in” them are. We are call joint heirs of his, and scripture say he is the first born OF MANY BRETHREN They do not truly believe Jesus is our brother, nor that he is a human being , but Jesus said when the SON OF MAN RETURNS but they say he is not a son of man any longer, but Jesus didn't see it that way.
My advice to you all is, not be taken in by these false teacher who trample and twist up the truth of Gods word to satisfy their false teachings. IMO
Peace and love to all the ISRAEL of GOD…………………………..gene
GWHO SAYS TO WORSHIP OTHER GODS
Terricca……….Who said you worshiped your false Gods, you people just work to create them. Again your trying to distort what I have written , by lying about what I wrote, to get people diverted from the real subject, that is being talked about. You are beyond a doubt a destroyer of the truth of GOD. IMO
gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 12 2013,10:23) Terricca……….Who said you worshiped your false Gods, you people just work to create them. Again your trying to distort what I have written , by lying about what I wrote, to get people diverted from the real subject, that is being talked about. You are beyond a doubt a destroyer of the truth of GOD. IMO gene
GeneI am a carpenter does that mean I am the only one
,do you REALY do not see that all started because one of the sons of God wanted to become like his God ,and later men invented gods ,and the sons of God some became corrupt and became gods to men,because of their power and might ,today we make gods out of young kids that can sing the right tune,or play the right game,We know that those so called gods are only limited in their own power and so are only function within those limits,while Jehovah God is the almighty God over all that is called god in heaven or on earth,
And so we have to know that we should only look to worship Jehovah God,and no otherQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 11 2013,21:56) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 10 2013,19:04) But of course we believe with the exception of God that those who are good, receive their goodness from God. It is not their own goodness that makes them good. Likewise, there is only one God and yet others are called theos by reason of receiving that theos by God.
And just like we can't say Jesus is not really good just because his goodness comes from Jehovah, we can't say the other elohim in scripture aren't really gods just because their power comes from Jehovah.
Mike,The other gods are not the source of anything good and so are not God like Jehovah is God.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 11 2013,08:56) t8 and All, The reason I try so hard to get you guys to see and understand the many scriptural examples of gods is because John 1:1 is a very pivotal scripture.
The commonly accepted (although absurd) translation of that verse is, The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Our one and only Most High God cannot possibly be WITH our one and only Most High God. This is just God-given common sense, people.
The Trinitarians realize that the only one who ever dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son was Jesus. And therefore, Jesus is the ONLY person who fits, “The Word was made flesh and dwelled among us with the glory of the only begotten Son of God.” So they like the absurd translation, because then they can nonsensically claim that Jesus actually WAS the very God he was WITH in the beginning.
On the other hand, the non-preexisters like that absurd translation of John 1:1 because they don't want to accept the fact that Jesus is the ONLY one who fits, “The Word was made flesh and dwelled among us with the glory of the only begotten Son of God.”
Instead, they want to imagine that this Word was some spirit entity type thing that really was God Almighty, but then came to dwell IN the flesh body of Jesus of Nazareth. They pretend that it makes sense for the Word OF God to BE the very God it is the Word OF. They say nonsensical things like, A person is his word – totally ignoring the fact that “his word” indicates something that person possesses – and not that person himself.
So both of these unscriptural teachings are based on personal wishes. The Trinitarians WANT to elevate Jesus to God Almighty. The non-preexisters WANT to keep Jesus as nothing more than a man like the rest of us, so they can feel more empowered to accomplish the things he accomplished. And that absurd translation of John 1:1 helps both parties to achieve their goal – despite the fact it calls for them to throw common sense out the window and accept that our one and only Most High God can be WITH our one and only Most High God.
BUT……………………..
What if we were to all start BELIEVING the scriptures? What if we read about the many other gods described in the scriptures and BELIEVED? Then we would see that Webster was right, and a god is any of various beings conceived of as supernatural, immortal, and having special powers over the lives and affairs of people and the course of nature. And by applying that ACCURATE definition, we would be able to read about the gods of Egypt – who turned staffs into snakes, water into blood, and produced frogs out of thin air – and BELIEVE that they were indeed gods, just like Moses and Jehovah said they were.
We would be able to read Job 1 and 2 – where the god Satan demonstrated his “special powers over the lives and affairs of people and the course of nature” by manipulating Sabeans, Chaldeans, mighty winds, and even fire from heaven – and BELIEVE that he is indeed a god, just like Jehovah and Paul both say he is.
We would be able to read Isaiah 9:6 – where it is prophesied by Jehovah Himself that Jesus would be called a mighty god – and BELIEVE those words that our Lord Jehovah told us.
And after reading and BELIEVING these, and the MANY other times various gods are described in many different scriptures, we could finally let our minds accept the only logical translation of John 1:1. Because we could then ACCEPT the scriptural FACT that Jesus is indeed a god who is not the MOST HIGH God Jehovah.
And we'd be able to understand that in the beginning, the Word was with the theos (as John actually wrote), and the Word was a theos.
And then we could see that Jesus was not the MOST HIGH theos, but a different, less high theos who was WITH the MOST HIGH theos in the beginning, before being made flesh and dwelling among us on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son.
But the Trinitarians WANT Jesus to be the Most High God, and so they will continue to PRETEND that there is but one god – despite all scriptural evidence to the contrary.
And the non-preexisters WANT Jesus to have been just a man like the rest of us, and so they will continue to PRETEND that there is but one god – despite all scriptural evidence to the contrary.
As for me, since all I WANT is for the truth of scriptures to remain the truth of scriptures, I will continue to tell it like it really is in the scriptures – despite all the flack I take from most of you.
Hi Mike,Jn.1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].
No man hath seen God at any time;
How soon you Forget?
Peace brother……………………………..
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 11 2013,05:37) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 10 2013,10:57) But to a born again Christian, to me, he is not “a god”.
So to Paul, he was a god. But to you, a better Christian than Paul apparently, he is not a god?Marty, in essence what you are saying is: According to the God-inspired scriptures, and those servants of God who recorded those scriptures, they ARE gods. But to ME they are not.
And THAT has been my point all along. Can we be justified by forcing our CURRENT understanding of words like “god” back into the scriptures, where the meaning was much different than our current understanding?
Or should we instead align OUR understanding to the way the writers of scripture understood words like “god”, and understand those words the same way, so that our understanding is based on THEIR usage of those words, and not our own CURRENT understanding of those words?
Which one, Marty?
Hi Mike:Please show me the scriptures relative to the Apostle Paul saying that Satan is “a god” or that he was “a god” to him.
Is the following scripture or not?
Quote 1Cr 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
I see also that you have a difficult time in understanding what I and others have been saying relative to God calling his representatives “god” or “gods” because of John 1.
If in John 1, “the Word” is Jesus as a sentient person, then John 1c “and the was God” would indicate that “Jesus is God”, and “he has indicated that he is not God”. He said that “he is the Christ, the Son of the living God”.Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Aug. 12 2013,20:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 11 2013,05:37) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 10 2013,10:57) But to a born again Christian, to me, he is not “a god”.
So to Paul, he was a god. But to you, a better Christian than Paul apparently, he is not a god?Marty, in essence what you are saying is: According to the God-inspired scriptures, and those servants of God who recorded those scriptures, they ARE gods. But to ME they are not.
And THAT has been my point all along. Can we be justified by forcing our CURRENT understanding of words like “god” back into the scriptures, where the meaning was much different than our current understanding?
Or should we instead align OUR understanding to the way the writers of scripture understood words like “god”, and understand those words the same way, so that our understanding is based on THEIR usage of those words, and not our own CURRENT understanding of those words?
Which one, Marty?
Hi Mike:Please show me the scriptures relative to the Apostle Paul saying that Satan is “a god” or that he was “a god” to him.
Is the following scripture or not?
Quote 1Cr 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
I see also that you have a difficult time in understanding what I and others have been saying relative to God calling his representatives “god” or “gods” because of John 1.
If in John 1, “the Word” is Jesus as a sentient person, then John 1c “and the was God” would indicate that “Jesus is God”, and “he has indicated that he is not God”. He said that “he is the Christ, the Son of the living God”.Love in Christ,
Marty
marty2Co 4:1 Therefore, since through God’s mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart.
2Co 4:2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.
2Co 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.
2Co 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
2Co 4:5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.
2Co 4:6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.JN 8:44 “ You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Jas 1:18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.
Jas 1:23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror
Jas 1:24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like.Jas 4:4 You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jas 4:8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.all those scriptures will answer your request I am sure
Hi Judge Pierre:
If you are accusing me of something, why don't you just come out and say of what you are accusing me.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Aug. 12 2013,21:25) Hi Judge Pierre: If you are accusing me of something, why don't you just come out and say of what you are accusing me.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyGod forbid me to say or think such a thing ,you have ask a question I have answered it ,NO MORE NO LESS ,
I am not your judge ,you are a free man and so can pick and chose according to what seems to you the truth ,
I am sorry the I speak most of the time in a raw version but that is not to create trouble but just say it the way I understand it
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 13 2013,02:30) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 12 2013,21:25) Hi Judge Pierre: If you are accusing me of something, why don't you just come out and say of what you are accusing me.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyGod forbid me to say or think such a thing ,you have ask a question I have answered it ,NO MORE NO LESS ,
I am not your judge ,you are a free man and so can pick and chose according to what seems to you the truth ,
I am sorry the I speak most of the time in a raw version but that is not to create trouble but just say it the way I understand it
Hi Pierre:Then explain how the scriptures that you posted answers my requests?
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 11 2013,08:10) Abe, I'm still waiting for your DIRECT answer about Gen 3:5 and 3:22. Do you believe the gods to whom Satan referred in 3:5 are the “one of us” to whom Jehovah referred in 3:22? YES or NO?
Hi Mike,That is a Silly question to ask a Christian.
Peace….
So, let us revisit the OP.
This is the understanding that has been gained so far, and I think that the original OP needs to have some adjusting!Quote OP:
Quote
Mike believe one
LU believes two
WJ believes three
EdJ believes fourSo now:
Gene believes one God
Marty believes one God
2besee believes one God
LU believes two Gods
Wakeup believes two Gods
WJ believes three Gods
Jammin believes three Gods
Mike believes multiple Gods
Teraricca believes multiple GodsEd J, Abe, Kerwin, t8, etc, I am not too sure.
Does that sound correct?
If I have any-one wrong, please tell me, or if unknown, please state your position.What does scripture conclude on this matter?
“There is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.”
Now, change the words in that to see if your belief fits!
Cheers.
Quote (2besee @ Aug. 12 2013,14:13) So, let us revisit the OP.
This is the understanding that has been gained so far, and I think that the original OP needs to have some adjusting!Quote OP:
Quote
Mike believe one
LU believes two
WJ believes three
EdJ believes fourSo now:
Gene believes one God
Marty believes one God
2besee believes one God
LU believes two Gods
Wakeup believes two Gods
WJ believes three Gods
Jammin believes three Gods
Mike believes multiple Gods
Teraricca believes multiple GodsEd J, Abe, Kerwin, t8, etc, I am not too sure.
Does that sound correct?
If I have any-one wrong, please tell me, or if unknown, please state your position.What does scripture conclude on this matter?
“There is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.”
Now, change the words in that to see if your belief fits!
Cheers.
Hi 2b,1Cor.8:4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is *No* God but One.” 5For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— 6yet for us(Christians) there is One God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
One God the Father.
Peace brother…………
Marty
Quote Please show me the scriptures relative to the Apostle Paul saying that Satan is “a god” or that he was “a god” to him. marty
2Co 4:1 Therefore, since through God’s mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart.
2Co 4:2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.
2Co 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.
2Co 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
2Co 4:5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.
2Co 4:6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.JN 8:44 “ You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Jas 1:18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.
Jas 1:23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror
Jas 1:24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like.Jas 4:4 You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jas 4:8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.all those scriptures will answer your request I am sure
————–
2CO 4:4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
i WAS SO BUSY I OVER LOOK THIS ONE
Quote (2besee @ Aug. 13 2013,04:13) So, let us revisit the OP.
This is the understanding that has been gained so far, and I think that the original OP needs to have some adjusting!Quote OP:
Quote
Mike believe one
LU believes two
WJ believes three
EdJ believes fourSo now:
Gene believes one God
Marty believes one God
2besee believes one God
LU believes two Gods
Wakeup believes two Gods
WJ believes three Gods
Jammin believes three Gods
Mike believes multiple Gods
Teraricca believes multiple GodsEd J, Abe, Kerwin, t8, etc, I am not too sure.
Does that sound correct?
If I have any-one wrong, please tell me, or if unknown, please state your position.What does scripture conclude on this matter?
“There is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.”
Now, change the words in that to see if your belief fits!
Cheers.
2BEEQuote Teraricca believes multiple Gods you are ignorant and it show when you talk ,spreading lies is some thing I really do not stand for ;prove your point or I will reported as a slander to the moderators ,
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 11 2013,22:55) Mike, The other gods are not the source of anything good and so are not God like Jehovah is God.
Agreed. But they are still gods. Even Jehovah says so.Quote (abe @ Aug. 11 2013,23:06) No man hath seen God at any time; How soon you Forget?
Agreed. No man has ever seen the MOST HIGH god, Jehovah.I have never forgotten that. What's that got to do with anything?
Quote (abe @ Aug. 13 2013,11:53) Quote (2besee @ Aug. 12 2013,14:13) So, let us revisit the OP.
This is the understanding that has been gained so far, and I think that the original OP needs to have some adjusting!Quote OP:
Quote
Mike believe one
LU believes two
WJ believes three
EdJ believes fourSo now:
Gene believes one God
Marty believes one God
2besee believes one God
LU believes two Gods
Wakeup believes two Gods
WJ believes three Gods
Jammin believes three Gods
Mike believes multiple Gods
Teraricca believes multiple GodsEd J, Abe, Kerwin, t8, etc, I am not too sure.
Does that sound correct?
If I have any-one wrong, please tell me, or if unknown, please state your position.What does scripture conclude on this matter?
“There is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.”
Now, change the words in that to see if your belief fits!
Cheers.
Hi 2b,1Cor.8:4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is *No* God but One.” 5For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— 6yet for us(Christians) there is One God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
One God the Father.
Peace brother…………
Abe, lol, that is so funny, I love it. (No, I mean the number of Gods thing!)Yes, Abe, I thought you were one. Just wasn't 100% sure.
Thanks.
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 13 2013,10:07) Marty Quote Please show me the scriptures relative to the Apostle Paul saying that Satan is “a god” or that he was “a god” to him. marty
2Co 4:1 Therefore, since through God’s mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart.
2Co 4:2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.
2Co 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.
2Co 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
2Co 4:5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.
2Co 4:6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.JN 8:44 “ You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Jas 1:18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.
Jas 1:23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror
Jas 1:24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like.Jas 4:4 You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jas 4:8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.all those scriptures will answer your request I am sure
————–
2CO 4:4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
i WAS SO BUSY I OVER LOOK THIS ONE
Hi Pierre:I already showed in my response to Mike why Satan is called “the god of this world”.
But this is where we will find whether or not he is in reality “a god”.
Quote Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever Love in Christ,
Marty
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