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Quote (terraricca @ June 11 2013,18:02) Quote (2besee @ June 11 2013,15:12) Mike,
Abe has just given you some scriptures, Marty has, I have, others have. If you still cannot see.. okay.Terraricca, that goes for you too.
2beethe day you will answer my questions with the scriptures without using alternative understanding of opinions that do not fit in truth with the entire scriptures then I will believe you ,
so try to stick to what is true in scriptures and i will listen very carefully
Well said, Pierre.Quote (942767 @ June 11 2013,18:27) Hi Mike: Can you make your doctrine fit despite the following scripture?
Quote 1 Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Love in Christ,
Marty
Of course, Marty. Post the whole statement Paul made – not just half of it.For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus that gave himself as a ransom for all people.
Was Jesus a human being WHEN he gave himself as a ransom? Of course he was. So the MAN who gave his life has become the mediator between men and God.
It doesn't say he is STILL a man, Marty. And I have shown you Galatians 1:1 and 1:11 which CLEARLY say Jesus is NOT a man any longer. I have shown you 1 Cor 15:45, which clearly says Jesus became a spirit. And also verse 50, which says flesh cannot inherit God's kingdom.
So the REAL question is: Can YOU make YOUR doctrine fit despite those many scriptures?
Quote (abe @ June 11 2013,18:46) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 11 2013,16:10) Quote (abe @ June 10 2013,22:27) “Yet for US” This nullifies many gods.
Nullifies many “gods”? Or nullifies many “scriptures”?Does Jesus saying “only God is good” nullify Jesus' claim that he is “the good shepherd”? YES or NO?
Abe, who are the gods in Psalm 8:5 – the ones Jehovah made man a little lower than?
Hi Mike,I think you missed this one?
Acts17:29 “Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and THOUGHT of man. 30″Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all [people] everywhere should repent, 31because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a MAN whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”
He will judge the world in righteousness through a MAN
This is why you say people do not answer your questions, they answer, but it is not what YOU want to Hear!
Peace…
No, I didn't “miss it”, Abe. It just doesn't answer my question – as far as I can see.Tell me how that passage answers my question.
(Also, answer the other one, about Jesus being the good shepherd.)
Quote (2besee @ June 11 2013,02:17) Quote (abe @ June 11 2013,16:21) Quote (2besee @ June 09 2013,13:47) Quote (abe @ June 10 2013,07:30) Quote (2besee @ June 09 2013,04:36) Quote (abe @ June 09 2013,20:15) Hi, Gen.1:26 Then God said, “Let *Us* make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
7And the *LORD* God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Do any of you think US equals LORD?
Peace brothers…
Abe,Gen.1:26 Then God said, “Let Usmake man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
7And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
If we put it all together we have:
“Us–Our image–His own image–The image of God–The Lord God.”
Some will say that God was conversing with angels but I don't think so.
What do you think, Abe? I would love to hear what you think that verse in Genesis means to you. (we'll just block everyone else out for the moment, okay!)
Hi 2b,The Seven Spirits of God, which were created In the First Day (Light).
Col.1:12 giving thanks unto the Father, who made us
meet(worthy) to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light;
13 who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the Kingdom of the Son of his love;
14 in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins:
15 who is the IMAGE of the Invisible God, the First Born of all CREATION; 16for IN him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created THROUGH him, and unto(into) him; 17and he is BEFORE all things, and IN him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the BEGINNING, the FIRSTBORN from the DEAD; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19For it was the Good Pleasure of the Father that IN him should all the fulness dwell; 20and THROUGH him to Reconcile all things unto(into) Himself(God), having made peace through the blood of his cross; through him, I say, whether things upon the earth, or things in the heavens.“who is the IMAGE of the Invisible God,”
‘Wisdom' of God
‘Spirit' of God
‘Word' of God
‘Knowledge' of God
‘Understanding' of God
'Counsel' of God
‘Light’ of GodDifferent ‘Parts' of the Son of God.
1Cor.12:12 For even as the body is One and [yet] has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13For by ONE Spirit we were all baptized into ONE Body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
14For the body is not one member, but MANY. 15If the foot says, “Because I am not a hand, I am not [a part] of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less [a part] of the body. 16And if the ear says, “Because I am not an eye, I am not [a part] of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less [a part] of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? 18But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the BODY, just as He desired. 19 If they were all ONE member, where would the body be? 20But now there are MANY members, but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; or again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; 23 and those [members] of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow MORE abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable, 24whereas our more presentable members have no need [of it]. But *God* has [so] composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that [member] which lacked, 25so that there may be no division in the body, but [that] the members may have the same care for one another. 26And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if [one] member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.
27Now YOU are Christ's body, and individually members of it. 28And God has appointed IN the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, [various] kinds of tongues. 29All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not [workers of] miracles, are they? 30All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31But earnestly desire the greater gifts. And I show you a still more excellent way
*Love of God*
Peace brother………
Hi Abe.
So if I understand that right, please tell me if I do or if I don't: the one God has many parts, just as the body has many parts: the human body and also the body of Christ which is the church, each being an important part of the one body. And the seven spirits of God being a part of God is the “our image” which man was made in as spoken of in Genesis.So, how do you feel the one spirit fits in with that?
Is it that the seven spirits combined make up the one spirit of God which is called the Holy Spirit?
Hi 2b,Rev.1:4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are BEFORE His throne,
Before
1799 enṓpion – literally, “in the eye (of God),” used for how all things happen under God&
#39;s watch, i.e. in keeping with His plan built on His absolute knowledge.I believe this word means in the eye of.(Throne)
:6 and made Us a Kingdom, priests to his God and Father
to him be the glory and the might to the ages of ages. Amen.Rev.3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar IN THE TEMPLE of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My “NEW” name.
Do you think all these Names are the same?
I have more to say, but later.
Peace brother…
Hi Abe.
Do you think it is the same name?
Hi 2b,Rev.3:1 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: He who HAS the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars, says this: I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.
Rev.5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which ARE the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
Power,riches, wisdom, strength, honor, glory and blessing.
Is.11:2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and power, the Spirit of knowledge and fear of the LORD
Do you think these Seven, are the Seven Spirits of God?
.Peace brother….
Abe and 2besee……….Continue with this you are both binging out a lot of Truth here, i am following both of you guys with grate intrest , I believe the Seven Spirit of God are the seven (DESTINCT INTELLECTS) that our LORD, YEHWEH, uses as his eyes giving him perception and council to Judge all things, also which he uses through out all creation, they are the “US” spoken of in Genesis, and these are now resting on Jesus with the Powers also need to excecute them to bring about the Kingdom of God on this earth when he comes. IMO
peace and love to both of you and yours……………………………………….gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 12 2013,12:19) Quote (942767 @ June 11 2013,18:27) Hi Mike: Can you make your doctrine fit despite the following scripture?
Quote 1 Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Love in Christ,
Marty
Of course, Marty. Post the whole statement Paul made – not just half of it.For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus that gave himself as a ransom for all people.
Was Jesus a human being WHEN he gave himself as a ransom? Of course he was. So the MAN who gave his life has become the mediator between men and God.
It doesn't say he is STILL a man, Marty. And I have shown you Galatians 1:1 and 1:11 which CLEARLY say Jesus is NOT a man any longer. I have shown you 1 Cor 15:45, which clearly says Jesus became a spirit. And also verse 50, which says flesh cannot inherit God's kingdom.
So the REAL question is: Can YOU make YOUR doctrine fit despite those many scriptures?
Hi Mike:I did not even notice that I had not pasted the last part of that scripture, but even so, it does not change the fact that the scripture states that there is “one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
1 Co 15 states that Jesus is the “last Adam”, and he is still a man. He does have a spiritual body, but he is still a man.
The “life giving spirit that he is” is the Word that you and I as born again Christians should be obeying. This is the spirit that was formed with him as he obeyed the Father without sin even unto death on the cross. It is through this Word that we have life. He said the following:
Quote John 6:63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. You are assuming that because the Apostle Paul stated that he did not receive the revelation of the scriptures from man but from Jesus Christ that he means that Jesus is not longer a man, but there is not scripture which states that he is no longer a man. To me, it is clear that the Apostle Paul is saying that he did not recieve the revelation from a man on earth, such as the othr Apostles. There is other scripture that will confirm this, and I will find it for you if you would like, but I don't have time to do it right now.
No, the real question is can you make your doctrine fit despite the scriptures state that there is but for a born again Christian, there is but One God, the Father.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (2besee @ June 13 2013,16:58) Abe,
I'm stuck.
Please tell me what you think.
Hi 2Besee,What are stuck on? Perhaps I can offer a suggestion.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (abe @ June 11 2013,18:01) Quote (2besee @ June 11 2013,02:17) Quote (abe @ June 11 2013,16:21) Quote (2besee @ June 09 2013,13:47) Quote (abe @ June 10 2013,07:30) Quote (2besee @ June 09 2013,04:36) Quote (abe @ June 09 2013,20:15) Hi, Gen.1:26 Then God said, “Let *Us* make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
7And the *LORD* God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Do any of you think US equals LORD?
Peace brothers…
Abe,Gen.1:26 Then God said, “Let Usmake man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
7And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
If we put it all together we have:
“Us–Our image–His own image–The image of God–The Lord God.”
Some will say that God was conversing with angels but I don't think so.
What do you think, Abe? I would love to hear what you think that verse in Genesis means to you. (we'll just block everyone else out for the moment, okay!)
Hi 2b,The Seven Spirits of God, which were created In the First Day (Light).
Col.1:12 giving thanks unto the Father, who made us
meet(worthy) to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light;
13 who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the Kingdom of the Son of his love;
14 in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins:
15 who is the IMAGE of the Invisible God, the First Born of all CREATION; 16for IN him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created THROUGH him, and unto(into) him; 17and he is BEFORE all things, and IN him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the BEGINNING, the FIRSTBORN from the DEAD; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19For it was the Good Pleasure of the Father that IN him should all the fulness dwell; 20and THROUGH him to Reconcile all things unto(into) Himself(God), having made peace through the blood of his cross; through him, I say, whether things upon the earth, or things in the heavens.“who is the IMAGE of the Invisible God,”
‘Wisdom' of God
‘Spirit' of God
‘Word' of God
‘Knowledge' of God
‘Understanding' of God
'Counsel' of God
‘Light’ of GodDifferent ‘Parts' of the Son of God.
1Cor.12:12 For even as the body is One and [yet] has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13For by ONE Spirit we were all baptized into ONE Body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
14For the body is not one member, but MANY. 15If the foot says, “Because I am not a hand, I am not [a part] of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less [a part] of the body. 16And if the ear says, “Because I am not an eye, I am not [a part] of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less [a part] of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? 18But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the BODY, just as He desired. 19 If they were all ONE member, where would the body be? 20But now there are MANY members, but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; or again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; 23 and those [members] of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow MORE abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable, 24whereas our more presentable members have no need [of it]. But *God* has [so] composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that [member] which lacked, 25so that there may be no division in the body, but [that] the members may have the same care for one another. 26And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if [one] member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.
27Now YOU are Christ's body, and individually members of it. 28And God has appointed IN the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, [various] kinds of tongues. 29All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not [workers of] miracles, are they? 30All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31But earnestly desire the greater gifts. And I show you a still more excellent way
*Love of God*
Peace brother………
Hi Abe.
So if I understand that right, please tell me if I do or if I don't: the one God has many parts, just as the body has many parts: the human body and also the body of Christ which is the church, each being an important part of the one body. And the seven spirits of God being a part of God is the “our image” which man was made in as spoken of in Genesis.So, how do you feel the one spirit fits in with that?
Is it that the seven spirits combined make up the one spirit of God which is called the Holy Spirit?
Hi 2b,Rev.1:4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is a
nd who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are BEFORE His throne,Before
1799 enṓpion – literally, “in the eye (of God),” used for how all things happen under God's watch, i.e. in keeping with His plan built on His absolute knowledge.
I believe this word means in the eye of.(Throne)
:6 and made Us a Kingdom, priests to his God and Father
to him be the glory and the might to the ages of ages. Amen.Rev.3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar IN THE TEMPLE of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My “NEW” name.
Do you think all these Names are the same?
I have more to say, but later.
Peace brother…
Hi Abe.
Do you think it is the same name?
Hi 2b,Rev.3:1 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: He who HAS the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars, says this: I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.
Rev.5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which ARE the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
Power,riches, wisdom, strength, honor, glory and blessing.
Is.11:2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and power, the Spirit of knowledge and fear of the LORD
Do you think these Seven, are the Seven Spirits of God?
.Peace brother….
Hi Gene,Thanks.
Gen.1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The First Day: Light
3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Rev.3:14 To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this. (Wisdom)
Jn.1:1 In the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
:2 He was IN the beginning with God.
:3 All things came into being THROUGH Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
:2 He(Word) was IN the Beginning With God.
:4 In Him(Word) was LIFE, and the Life was the LIGHT of men. 5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
Wisdom Word Light Darkness.
Col.1:15 He(Son) is the IMAGE of the Invisible God, the Firstborn of all creation. 16For by(through) Him all things were created, [both] in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for(into) Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18He is also head of the body, the church; and He IS the Beginning, the Firstborn from the DEAD, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19For it was the [Father's] good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20and Through Him to RECONCILE all things to Himself,(God) having made peace through the blood of His cross; THROUGH Him, , whether things on earth or things in heaven.
I will send more tomorrow.
Peace brother..
Quote (Ed J @ June 13 2013,19:29) Quote (2besee @ June 13 2013,16:58) Abe,
I'm stuck.
Please tell me what you think.
Hi 2Besee,What are stuck on? Perhaps I can offer a suggestion.
God bless
EdHi Ed J, Abe and Gene,
I moved the discussion to here:
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….y405534
So we can keep up easier! Yes, please join in.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 12 2013,14:59) Read:
diabolosDefinition:
1) prone to slander, slanderous, accusing falsely
1a) a calumniator, false accuser, slanderer,2) metaphorically applied to a man who, by opposing the cause of God, may be said to act the part of the devil or to side with him
Is that not the point Mike.There is one Devil/Satan and those like him are called devils.
Those list of qualities or characteristics are of the Devil himself and thus those that possess these qualities are devils.
Judas was not The Devil, but like him in some way.
Quote (t8 @ June 13 2013,22:11) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 12 2013,14:59) Read:
diabolosDefinition:
1) prone to slander, slanderous, accusing falsely
1a) a calumniator, false accuser, slanderer,2) metaphorically applied to a man who, by opposing the cause of God, may be said to act the part of the devil or to side with him
Is that not the point Mike.There is one Devil/Satan and those like him are called devils.
Those list of qualities or characteristics are of the Devil himself and thus those that possess these qualities are devils.
Judas was not The Devil, but like him in some way.
T8…….Right you are , the “spirit” of ha-satan was and is working in all his children. Therefore Jesus call those Pharisees contending with him, children of the devil or ha-satan.Peace and love ………………….gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 11 2013,17:21) Quote (abe @ June 11 2013,18:46) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 11 2013,16:10) Quote (abe @ June 10 2013,22:27) “Yet for US” This nullifies many gods.
Nullifies many “gods”? Or nullifies many “scriptures”?Does Jesus saying “only God is good” nullify Jesus' claim that he is “the good shepherd”? YES or NO?
Abe, who are the gods in Psalm 8:5 – the ones Jehovah made man a little lower than?
Hi Mike,I think you missed this one?
Acts17:29 “Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and THOUGHT of man. 30″Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all [people] everywhere should repent, 31because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a MAN whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”
He will judge the world in righteousness through a MAN
This is why you say people do not answer your questions, they answer, but it is not what YOU want to Hear!
Peace…
No, I didn't “miss it”, Abe. It just doesn't answer my question – as far as I can see.Tell me how that passage answers my question.
(Also, answer the other one, about Jesus being the good shepherd.)
Hi Mike,Mk.10 ;18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
18 agathós – inherently (intrinsically) good; as to the believer, 18 (agathós) describes what originates from God and is empowered by Him in their life, through faith.
Word Origin
of uncertain origin
Definition
good
NASB Translation
generous (1), good (81), good man (2), good thing (6), good things (6), goodness (1), goods (2), kind (1), kindly (1), kindness (1).Jn.10:11 “I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.
2570 kalós – attractively good; good that inspires (motivates) others to embrace what is lovely (beautiful, praiseworthy); i.e. well done so as to be winsome (appealing).
STRONGS NT 2570: καλός
καλός, καλή, καλόν (probably primarily 'sound,' 'hale,' 'whole ;' cf. Vanicek, p. 140f; Curtius, § 31), the Sept. for יָפֶה beautiful, but much more often for טוב good; beautiful, applied by the Greeks to everything so distinguished in form, excellence, goodness, usefulness, as to be pleasing; hence (according to the context) equivalent to “beautiful, handsome, excellent, eminent, choice, surpassing, precious, useful, suitable, commendable, admirable”;
Word Origin
a prim. word
Definition
beautiful, good
NASB Translation
beautiful (1), better (5), better* (2), commendable manner (1), excellent (1), fair (1), fine (2), good (79), high (1), honest (1), honorable (1), right thing (1), sound (1), treasure* (1), what is right (2).Strongs #18 #2570
Two different words! There is only One (#2570) One, God.
(Quote)
Abe, who are the gods in Psalm 8:5 – the ones Jehovah made man a little lower than?It doesn't matter to Christians, we have ONE God.
Peace…
Quote (942767 @ June 12 2013,16:09) I did not even notice that I had not pasted the last part of that scripture, but even so, it does not change the fact that the scripture states that there is “one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
You “didn't notice” that you left out a key part of the statement, but then DID IT AGAIN right now?
Marty, let me put the same words in a different order for you:
The man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people, is [now] the one mediator between God and mankind.
See how the statement doesn't really say Jesus is STILL a human being. Marty, use your God-given common sense on this one. Do you SERIOUSLY believe Jesus is the ONE and ONLY human being who dwells in the SPIRITUAL realm of heaven? Can a human being see the face of God an live? Scripture says “NO”. Yet there is Jesus, sitting at the right hand of the God who dwells in light that is unapproachable to humans, seeing the face of his God day and night. Come on, man.
Quote (942767 @ June 12 2013,16:09) He does have a spiritual body, but he is still a man.
“Man” is a species, Marty. And that species has a flesh body, not a spiritual one. You are correct that Jesus now has a new, glorious, spiritual body. So what does it mean if “man” has a flesh body, and Jesus does not? Do the math.Quote (942767 @ June 12 2013,16:09) The “life giving spirit that he is” is the Word that you and I as born again Christians should be obeying. Quote John 6:63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.
1. The words Jesus speaks are spirit and truth.2. Jesus became a life-giving spirit.
See how once teaching is about Jesus himself, and the other one is about words Jesus speaks? Why then would you lump those TWO teachings together – as if they BOTH taught the same thing?
Quote (942767 @ June 12 2013,16:09) You are assuming that because the Apostle Paul stated that he did not receive the revelation of the scriptures from man but from Jesus Christ that he means that Jesus is not longer a man, but there is not scripture which states that he is no longer a man.
Huh? The words are, I DIDN'T receive it from any MAN, but from Jesus Christ. I'd say that is pretty clear evidence that Jesus is NOT “any man”.Quote (942767 @ June 12 2013,16:09) To me, it is clear that the Apostle Paul is saying that he did not recieve the revelation from a man on earth, such as the othr Apostles
Oh, so you have to ADD the words “on earth” to the teaching – as if everyone to whom Paul was speaking just naturally assumed there WERE human beings also in heaven?Quote (942767 @ June 12 2013,16:09) No, the real question is can you make your doctrine fit despite the scriptures state that there is but for a born again Christian, there is but One God, the Father.
Absolutely. I can do it in two scriptures, Marty. Ready?Psalm 8
4 what is mankind that you are mindful of them,
human beings that you care for them?5 You have made them a little lower than the gods
and crowned them with glory and honor.Who are “the gods” that Jehovah made man a little lower than?
Hosea 13:4
Yet I have been the LORD your God ever since the land of Egypt; (1)you know no God but me, and (2)besides me there is no savior.If you take #1 to be a literal statement, then you must also take #2 the same way.
But we all know Jehovah SENT Jesus to be our savior, right? And Nehemiah speaks of some of the other saviors God has SENT.
So, is Jehovah LITERALLY the ONLY savior in existence? Or does “only savior” have more of a meaning of “ultimate savior”?
Answer that one correctly, and you'll also have your answer to #1.
Quote (t8 @ June 13 2013,05:11) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 12 2013,14:59) Read:
diabolosDefinition:
1) prone to slander, slanderous, accusing falsely
1a) a calumniator, false accuser, slanderer,2) metaphorically applied to a man who, by opposing the cause of God, may be said to act the part of the devil or to side with him
Is that not the point Mike.There is one Devil/Satan and those like him are called devils.
Those list of qualities or characteristics are of the Devil himself and thus those that possess these qualities are devils.
Judas was not The Devil, but like him in some way.
That's like saying Jehovah is the only one who is LITERALLY a savior, simply because He is often called “Savior” – like it was a personal title.It's like you're saying that any other saviors, like Jesus, are not really saviors at all, but are just metaphorically called that because they share certain characteristics with Jehovah.
The Greek word “diablos” means “slanderous”. If Judas was literally slanderous, then Judas was literally diablos.
Just because there is a specific one who is called “Slanderous” as his title doesn't mean all others are “so-called slanderers”, or “false slanderers”. It doesn't mean they are only “qualitatively slanderers”, or “metaphorically slanderers”.
Find a different scriptural example to demonstrate your point, because this one doesn't work. Jesus called Judas “slanderous”, and there is no reason to think he didn't mean it literally.
Quote (abe @ June 13 2013,10:38) (Quote)
Abe, who are the gods in Psalm 8:5 – the ones Jehovah made man a little lower than?It doesn't matter to Christians, we have ONE God.
So you will just ignore that scripture, and many others that speak of legitimate gods who aren't Jehovah?Quote (abe @ June 13 2013,10:38) Mk.10 ;18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Two different words!
Yeah, I already knew that, but the meaning is the same, which is why they are translated the same in English. But if you want to strain the gnat…………..Luke 6:45
The good man out of the good treasury of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasury produces evil, for his mouth speaks from what fills his heart.How can Jesus be teaching about a “good” man, when God is LITERALLY the ONLY “good” one? How can a mere man “produce good”, when God is LITERALLY the ONLY “good” thing in existence? (This time, it is the same word.)
Or this one…………..
Luke 23:50
Now there was a man named Joseph who was a member of the council, a good and righteous man.This is also the same word. Maybe Luke didn't get the memo that God was LITERALLY the ONLY “good” one?
(Please give a DIRECT answer to the bolded questions.)
Quote (abe @ June 13 2013,10:38) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 11 2013,17:21) Abe, who are the gods in Psalm 8:5 – the ones Jehovah made man a little lower than?
It doesn't matter to Christians, we have ONE God.
Maybe you have been misunderstanding me, Abe. I don't claim that WE HAVE multiple gods. I claim that the scriptures clearly teach that THERE EXIST multiple gods.So I am NOT claiming that the gods in Psalm 8:5 are OUR GODS, that we should worship and serve as Jehovah.
But I still want to know WHO they are anyway. “It doesn't matter” is not a sufficient answer. It is in the scriptures, so apparently it DOES matter. Who are they, Abe?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 13 2013,18:26) Quote (942767 @ June 12 2013,16:09) I did not even notice that I had not pasted the last part of that scripture, but even so, it does not change the fact that the scripture states that there is “one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
You “didn't notice” that you left out a key part of the statement, but then DID IT AGAIN right now?Marty, let me put the same words in a different order for you:
The man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people, is [now] the one mediator between God and mankind.
See how the statement doesn't really say Jesus is STILL a human being. Marty, use your God-given common sense on this one. Do you SERIOUSLY believe Jesus is the ONE and ONLY human being who dwells in the SPIRITUAL realm of heaven? Can a human being see the face of God an live? Scripture says “NO”. Yet there is Jesus, sitting at the right hand of the God who dwells in light that is unapproachable to humans, seeing the face of his God day and night. Come on, man.
Quote (942767 @ June 12 2013,16:09) He does have a spiritual body, but he is still a man.
“Man” is a species, Marty. And that species has a flesh body, not a spiritual one. You are correct that Jesus now has a new, glorious, spiritual body. So what does it mean if “man” has a flesh body, and Jesus does not? Do the math.Quote (942767 @ June 12 2013,16:09) The “life giving spirit that he is” is the Word that you and I as born again Christians should be obeying. Quote John 6:63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.
1. The words Jesus speaks are spirit and truth.2. Jesus became a life-giving spirit.
See how once teaching is about Jesus himself, and the other one is about words Jesus speaks? Why then would you lump those TWO teachings together – as if they BOTH taught the same thing?
Quote (942767 @ June 12 2013,16:09) You are assuming that because the Apostle Paul stated that he did not receive the revelation of the scriptures from man but from Jesus Christ that he means that Jesus is not longer a man, but there is not scripture which states that he is no longer a man.
Huh? The words are, I DIDN'T receive it from any MAN, but from Jesus Christ. I'd say that is pretty clear evidence that Jesus is NOT “any man”.Quote (942767 @ June 12 2013,16:09) To me, it is clear that the Apostle Paul is saying that he did not recieve the revelation from a man on earth, such as the othr Apostles
Oh, so you have to ADD the words “on earth” to the teaching – as if everyone to whom Paul was speaking just naturally assumed there WERE human beings also in heaven?Quote (942767 @ June 12 2013,16:09) No, the real question is can you make your doctrine fit despite the scriptures state that there is but for a born again Christian, there is but One God, the Father.
Absolutely. I can do it in two scriptures, Marty. Ready?Psalm 8
4 what is mankind that you are mindful of them,
human beings that you care for them?5 You have made them a little lower than the gods
and crowned them with glory and honor.Who are “the gods” that Jehovah made man a little lower than?
Hosea 13:4
Yet I have been the LORD your God ever since the land of Egypt; (1)you know no God but me, and (2)besides me there is no savior.If you take #1 to be a literal statement, then you must also take #2 the same way.
But we all know Jehovah SENT Jesus to be our savior, right? And Nehemiah speaks of some of the other saviors God has SENT.
So, is Jehovah LITERALLY the ONLY savior in existence? Or does “only savior” have more of a meaning of “ultimate savior”?
Answer that one correctly, and you'll also have your answer to #1.
Hi Mike,(Quote)
Marty, let me put the same words in a different order for you:The man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people, is [now] the one mediator between God and mankind.
Your ADDING to the Scripture.
Prov.30:6 Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.
Peace..
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 13 2013,18:56) Quote (abe @ June 13 2013,10:38) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 11 2013,17:21) Abe, who are the gods in Psalm 8:5 – the ones Jehovah made man a little lower than?
It doesn't matter to Christians, we have ONE God.
Maybe you have been misunderstanding me, Abe. I don't claim that WE HAVE multiple gods. I claim that the scriptures clearly teach that THERE EXIST multiple gods.So I am NOT claiming that the gods in Psalm 8:5 are OUR GODS, that we should worship and serve as Jehovah.
But I still want to know WHO they are anyway. “It doesn't matter” is not a sufficient answer. It is in the scriptures, so apparently it DOES matter. Who are they, Abe?
Hi Mike,(Quote)
Maybe you have been misunderstanding me, Abe. I don't claim that WE HAVE multiple gods. I claim that the scriptures clearly teach that THERE EXIST multiple gods.You are talking out of BOTH sides of your Mouth !
Jam.1:8 A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways.
Peace……………
Peace…………….
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