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Mike ……T8 or you hav enot answered Me Honestly, I ask if ther ewas a “scripture that says Jesus Christ PREEXISTED HIS BERTH ON THIS EARTH AS A LIVING BEING A simple Yes or No answer would suffice but not a scripture you can force to say what in fact i did not ask you for, Skiriting the direct question is not an answer Mike, it is what somuch confusion here is about. You or T8 have produced not “SPECIFIC” Scripture or have shown NO Preexistent activity of Jesus befor his berth on this earth either.
As far as you questions go i do believe i have answered them all if is havent the pleas post it again and i will.
peace and love to you andn yours……………………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 24 2013,11:17) Mike ……T8 or you hav enot answered Me Honestly, I ask if ther ewas a “scripture that says Jesus Christ PREEXISTED HIS BERTH ON THIS EARTH AS A LIVING BEING A simple Yes or No answer would suffice
Yes Gene. There are many of them.I will begin to go through them one at a time if you want me to. But only after you acknowledge for me that Jesus IS called a god in certain scriptures.
You have “kind of” acknowledged it already, but I want a definitive acknowledgement – one that I can quote for you the next time you forget that Jesus is a “small god” according to scripture.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 25 2013,07:17) Mike ……T8 or you hav enot answered Me Honestly, I ask if ther ewas a “scripture that says Jesus Christ PREEXISTED HIS BERTH ON THIS EARTH AS A LIVING BEING A simple Yes or No answer would suffice but not a scripture you can force to say what in fact i did not ask you for, Skiriting the direct question is not an answer Mike, it is what somuch confusion here is about. You or T8 have produced not “SPECIFIC” Scripture or have shown NO Preexistent activity of Jesus befor his berth on this earth either. As far as you questions go i do believe i have answered them all if is havent the pleas post it again and i will.
peace and love to you andn yours……………………………………………gene
Before Heaven Net, I am.I think therefore I am.
Thus, I existed before Heaven Net.
Are you gene? I am. I existed as Gene before the year 2000AD.
Before 2000AD, I am Gene.
Jesus said, “Before Abraham, I am”.
God said, “I am that I am”. Was God referring to himself as the existing one? Yes No?
T8…..Why would Jesus have said Just before that “you father Abraham rejoiced to see “MY DAY”, if Jesus already existed before his berth on this earth. And another Point Just go and look up the word “WAS” is used for over 456 times and over 82 different meaning in scripture. And yet this is your “POOF” Text ?
T8 notice how they lied about what Jesus was saying, He simply said Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and they came back and made it a thing about Abraham actually seeing him, Also notice they also knew Jesus was talking about his importance When they responded “Art thou “GREATER” than our father Abraham”, can't you see it was a matter of IMPORTANCE and not a MATTER of HIM PREEXISTING the Berth of Abraham. If it were a matter of Berth Jesus would have Just simple said I “existed” and was “alive” before Abraham.
The issue was this T8, John 8:15…> Verily, Verly, “I” say unto you, If a man keep my sayings, he shall “NEVER SEE DEATH” . That was the issue, Jesus' present “importance” to them and us also.
What you are doing T8 is “FORCING” the text to meet your preconceived Ideologies, rather you realize it nor not , that is the truth Brother.
peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 15 2013,09:24) What you are doing T8 is “FORCING” the text to meet your preconceived Ideologies…………..
Gene,How do YOU explain the words, “Before Abraham was, I am” ?
Let us hear YOUR explanation for those words, then we can decide who is doing the “forcing”.
Yes I agree with Mike. If we read , “Before Abraham, I am” as saying he existed, then what force are you using to change that meaning?
'I am' means I exist, so I am reading this as the default meaning.
See that?'I am' reading this with the default meaning. In other words, me who exists is reading this with the default meaning.
So Gene, how are we forcing it. And how do you arrive at your conclusion to those words without forcing it to your view.
This will be interesting.
T8………That is the point “IF” you read it that way, you are forcing the text to say what in fact, as i explained before. Jesus was not dealing with his Existence Pertaining to a time of life, He was dealing With His importance in the plan and will of God . In this, He was in place “before” Abraham was, He was predicted to “Come” before Abraham in the plan and will of God.
Jesus was not talking about his prior Life at all. Why would Abraham look forward to his day if he already was alive at his day? If you had read the whole Point of Jesus' argument with the Jews you can easely understand what he was driving at, it had nothing to do with his time of existence as a living being at all, but his importance. But as all most all trinitarians and Preexistences you take a word or two and try to make it be some kind of proof text, when in fact the very words used are translated 80 or more different ways in scriptures , you guys also do this with where you believe God created “EVERY” thing “THROUGH” or “BY” Jesus, another forcing of text to meet your false Preconclusions that goes completle against Godvery own words he himslef said.
One thing i have notices that helps me T8, is that what every is written in the New tetement , if it does not square with the Old testement them it is false or misunderstood , The new testement has been tampered with far more the the old IMO>
T8 and MIke ….Why don't you people ever deal with thing that show Jesus was a Predictied person to come from his “brethern”, fellow Israelites as Moses and others prophesied, or wher eit say He would come ” THE SEED OF ABRAHAM”. But you believe He was alive before Abraham, but scripture says He was From the “SEED” of Abraham, how do you reconcile that, which is explained in scriptures, He is also called the Second ADAM, not a Preexistent Adam but a “SECOND” Adam. How could that be if he already existed before ADAM, And don't give me he was “MORPHED” into a BODY that was “LIKE” ADAM garbage.
My point is why don't you people deal with all the other scriptures that shows you are wrong about you conclusi
Those Jews were completely misunderstanding as you guys are , you doing the same thing they were, the hole point of what Jesus was say was about his importance in the will and plan of God, it had nothing to do with from “PREEXISTING” or he would have simply said He was alive before Abraham, Just that simple . But he did not say that now did he? You taking a translated Trinitarian and Preexistences text, to meet their false conclusions. Jesus said before Abraham “I am”, the word before there is in “place of importance” and has nothing to do with him being alive as a “sentinel being”, that is what you Trinitarians and Preexistences are saying forcing the text to meet your false conclusions.
peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 29 2013,14:35) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 24 2013,11:17) Mike ……T8 or you hav enot answered Me Honestly, I ask if ther ewas a “scripture that says Jesus Christ PREEXISTED HIS BERTH ON THIS EARTH AS A LIVING BEING A simple Yes or No answer would suffice
Yes Gene. There are many of them.I will begin to go through them one at a time if you want me to. But only after you acknowledge for me that Jesus IS called a god in certain scriptures.
You have “kind of” acknowledged it already, but I want a definitive acknowledgement – one that I can quote for you the next time you forget that Jesus is a “small god” according to scripture.
MIke…….. Listen clearly “OK”, JESUS HIMSELF IS NOT CALLED GOD , BIG OR LITTLE IN ANY SCRIPTURE. I have “NEVER” Acknowledge Jesus as a GOD, big or “little” god , NEVER. You have completely misunderstaood what i have said if you found something in what i said, that may have seem that way.I do recall saying GOD “PRESENCE” was THERE WITH THE “MAN” JESUS and the BIG GOD was “IN” HIM, and Where Thomas said “MY Lord, “AND” MY GOD> When he came to REALIZE GOD the FATHER, WAS TRULY THERE “IN” JESUS HIS Lord. Both His GOD and HIS Lord were there, and that was Not a “little” god present But the BIG GOD and “ONLY” GOD, that was Preasent there.
Mike , I explained to you how the Term God is used and it is never a “little or big God”. it is alway used with the Idea of “YOUR TRUSTED GOD” It is alway PERSONALLY USED in context like, the God of this or that or them or your God , My GOd, Our GOD, Their GOD, it has ONLY ONE MEANING HERE it IS in its simplest terms, “THE POWER YOU TRUST IN”. Now to you Jesus and satan and all the millions of God's people trust in are real Gods, to me they are “FALSE GOD” because i Have ONLY ONE GOD and I acknowledge NO OTHER GOD of any KIND. And that include your so-called god ha-satan also.
Now is that clear enough MIke that is the exact way i see it, you and anyone else can see it anyway you like . Jesus is Not MY GOD , He is My Brother in the Family of GOD, the firstborn in that Family, But non of that makes Him or any other member of that family, a God of any Kind, but members one of another in the family of God.
Now I hope that answered you question as to how i stand concerning the word GOD.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 16 2013,08:08) Jesus said before Abraham “I am”, the word before there is in “place of importance” and has nothing to do with him being alive as a “sentinel being”…………. He was in place “before” Abraham was, He was predicted to “Come” before Abraham in the plan and will of God.
So in YOUR understanding, we need to add words into the text to make Jesus say, Before Abraham was, I was IN PLACE. I was PREDICTED TO COME before Abraham was. ?Hmmmm…………….. And WE'RE the ones “forcing” the text?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 16 2013,08:08) T8 and MIke ….Why don't you people ever deal with thing that show Jesus was a Predictied person to come from his “brethern”, fellow Israelites as Moses and others prophesied……….
We do accept those things, Gene. Read this:Matthew 2
4 When he had called together all the people’s chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where the Messiah was to be born.5 “In Bethlehem in Judea,” they replied, “for this is what the prophet has written:
6 “‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for out of you will come a ruler
who will shepherd my people Israel.’”Gene, that passage about the forthcoming Messiah was written in Micah 5. And this is what it says about that Messiah:
Micah 5:2
“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
though you are small among the clans of Judah,
out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins are from of old,
from ancient times.”So once again, a scripture SUPPORTS our understanding that Jesus existed before Abraham – just like he said in John 8:58. And once again, YOU'LL have to start twisting and adding to the words that are actually there, so you don't have to accept the truth.
You will say that by “origins”, Micah was referring to when Jesus began to “exist as a plan in God's head”, or whatever.
And it never ends, Gene. We keep showing you SUPPORTING scriptures, and YOU GUYS keep twisting them and adding in your own words to make it come out the way you've already decided it should be. So it is YOU GUYS who do all the “forcing” – not us.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 16 2013,08:40) Now I hope that answered you question as to how i stand concerning the word GOD.
Yes Gene. Thank you for your answer.Now I have two simple YES or NO questions for you:
Hebrews 1
8 But about the Son he says,“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.”Is Jesus called a god in the above passage? YES or NO?
Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born……….And he will be called…….. Mighty God………
How about in this one? YES or NO?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 16 2013,06:40) I will begin to go through them one at a time if you want me to. But only after you acknowledge for me that Jesus IS called a god in certain scriptures. You have “kind of” acknowledged it already, but I want a definitive acknowledgement – one that I can quote for you the next time you forget that Jesus is a “small god” according to scripture.[/quote]
MIke…….. Listen clearly “OK”, JESUS HIMSELF IS NOT CALLED GOD , BIG OR LITTLE IN ANY SCRIPTURE. I have “NEVER” Acknowledge Jesus as a GOD, big or “little” god , NEVER. You have completely misunderstaood what i have said if you found something in what i said, that may have seem that way.I do recall saying GOD “PRESENCE” was THERE WITH THE “MAN” JESUS and the BIG GOD was “IN” HIM, and Where Thomas said “MY Lord, “AND” MY GOD> When he came to REALIZE GOD the FATHER, WAS TRULY THERE “IN” JESUS HIS Lord. Both His GOD and HIS Lord were there, and that was Not a “little” god present But the BIG GOD and “ONLY” GOD, that was Preasent there.
Mike , I explained to you how the Term God is used and it is never a “little or big God”. it is alway used with the Idea of “YOUR TRUSTED GOD” It is alway PERSONALLY USED in context like, the God of this or that or them or your God , My GOd, Our GOD, Their GOD, it has ONLY ONE MEANING HERE it IS in its simplest terms, “THE POWER YOU TRUST IN”. Now to you Jesus and satan and all the millions of God's people trust in are real Gods, to me they are “FALSE GOD” because i Have ONLY ONE GOD and I acknowledge NO OTHER GOD of any KIND. And that include your so-called god ha-satan also.
Now is that clear enough MIke that is the exact way i see it, you and anyone else can see it anyway you like . Jesus is Not MY GOD , He is My Brother in the Family of GOD, the firstborn in that Family, But non of that makes Him or any other member of that family, a God of any Kind, but members one of another in the family of God.
Now I hope that answered you question as to how i stand concerning the word GOD.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene
Hi Gene,Good Post.
Ex.23:13 “Pay attention to do everything I have told you, and do not even mention the names of other gods – do not let them be heard on your lips.
Peace brother…
Does that include Jesus, Abe? How do you pray to Jehovah through His mediator if you can't mention the mediator's name?
Perhaps instead of encouraging Gene in his disbelief of scriptures, you could answer the two questions I asked him instead? (They are in the post directly above yours.)
Go ahead Abe, give it a shot.
Quote (abe @ April 17 2013,08:56) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 16 2013,06:40) I will begin to go through them one at a time if you want me to. But only after you acknowledge for me that Jesus IS called a god in certain scriptures. You have “kind of” acknowledged it already, but I want a definitive acknowledgement – one that I can quote for you the next time you forget that Jesus is a “small god” according to scripture.
MIke…….. Listen clearly “OK”, JESUS HIMSELF IS NOT CALLED GOD , BIG OR LITTLE IN ANY SCRIPTURE. I have “NEVER” Acknowledge Jesus as a GOD, big or “little” god , NEVER. You have completely misunderstaood what i have said if you found something in what i said, that may have seem that way.I do recall saying GOD “PRESENCE” was THERE WITH THE “MAN” JESUS and the BIG GOD was “IN” HIM, and Where Thomas said “MY Lord, “AND” MY GOD> When he came to REALIZE GOD the FATHER, WAS TRULY THERE “IN” JESUS HIS Lord. Both His GOD and HIS Lord were there, and that was Not a “little” god present But the BIG GOD and “ONLY” GOD, that was Preasent there.
Mike , I explained to you how the Term God is used and it is never a “little or big God”. it is alway used with the Idea of “YOUR TRUSTED GOD” It is alway PERSONALLY USED in context like, the God of this or that or them or your God , My GOd, Our GOD, Their GOD, it has ONLY ONE MEANING HERE it IS in its simplest terms, “THE POWER YOU TRUST IN”. Now to you Jesus and satan and all the millions of God's people trust in are real Gods, to me they are “FALSE GOD” because i Have ONLY ONE GOD and I acknowledge NO OTHER GOD of any KIND. And that include your so-called god ha-satan also.
Now is that clear enough MIke that is the exact way i see it, you and anyone else can see it anyway you like . Jesus is Not MY GOD , He is My Brother in the Family of GOD, the firstborn in that Family, But non of that makes Him or any other member of that family, a God of any Kind, but members one of another in the family of God.
Now I hope that answered you question as to how i stand concerning the word GOD.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene[/quote]
Hi Gene,Good Post.
Ex.23:13 “Pay attention to do everything I have told you, and do not even mention the names of other gods – do not let them be heard on your lips.
Peace brother…
ABEare you a Hebrew or Jewish
for quoting EX 23;13Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 17 2013,17:10) Does that include Jesus, Abe? How do you pray to Jehovah through His mediator if you can't mention the mediator's name? Perhaps instead of encouraging Gene in his disbelief of scriptures, you could answer the two questions I asked him instead? (They are in the post directly above yours.)
Go ahead Abe, give it a shot.
Hi Mike,Ex.23:13 “Pay attention to do everything I have told you, and do not even mention the names of other gods – do not let them be heard on your lips.
This is where your going with the little g thing. Jesus Christ never mentioned himself as being a god.
THINK.
You pray to God through his Son, Jesus Christ. Son of God.
Peace brother.
Quote (terraricca @ April 17 2013,17:17) Quote (abe @ April 17 2013,08:56) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 16 2013,06:40) I will begin to go through them one at a time if you want me to. But only after you acknowledge for me that Jesus IS called a god in certain scriptures. You have “kind of” acknowledged it already, but I want a definitive acknowledgement – one that I can quote for you the next time you forget that Jesus is a “small god” according to scripture.
MIke…….. Listen clearly “OK”, JESUS HIMSELF IS NOT CALLED GOD , BIG OR LITTLE IN ANY SCRIPTURE. I have “NEVER” Acknowledge Jesus as a GOD, big or “little” god , NEVER. You have completely misunderstaood what i have said if you found something in what i said, that may have seem that way.I do recall saying GOD “PRESENCE” was THERE WITH THE “MAN” JESUS and the BIG GOD was “IN” HIM, and Where Thomas said “MY Lord, “AND” MY GOD> When he came to REALIZE GOD the FATHER, WAS TRULY THERE “IN” JESUS HIS Lord. Both His GOD and HIS Lord were there, and that was Not a “little” god present But the BIG GOD and “ONLY” GOD, that was Preasent there.
Mike , I explained to you how the Term God is used and it is never a “little or big God”. it is alway used with the Idea of “YOUR TRUSTED GOD” It is alway PERSONALLY USED in context like, the God of this or that or them or your God , My GOd, Our GOD, Their GOD, it has ONLY ONE MEANING HERE it IS in its simplest terms, “THE POWER YOU TRUST IN”. Now to you Jesus and satan and all the millions of God's people trust in are real Gods, to me they are “FALSE GOD” because i Have ONLY ONE GOD and I acknowledge NO OTHER GOD of any KIND. And that include your so-called god ha-satan also.
Now is that clear enough MIke that is the exact way i see it, you and anyone else can see it anyway you like . Jesus is Not MY GOD , He is My Brother in the Family of GOD, the firstborn in that Family, But non of that makes Him or any other member of that family, a God of any Kind, but members one of another in the family of God.
Now I hope that answered you question as to how i stand concerning the word GOD.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene
Hi Gene,Good Post.
Ex.23:13 “Pay attention to do everything I have told you, and do not even mention the names of other gods – do not let them be heard on your lips.
Peace brother…[/quote]
ABEare you a Hebrew or Jewish
for quoting EX 23;13
Hi T,I am a Christian. What religion do you profess?
Ex.23:13 “Pay attention to do everything I have told you, and do not even mention the names of other gods – do not let them be heard on your lips.
Peace brother.
Quote (abe @ April 18 2013,09:12) Quote (terraricca @ April 17 2013,17:17) Quote (abe @ April 17 2013,08:56) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 16 2013,06:40) I will begin to go through them one at a time if you want me to. But only after you acknowledge for me that Jesus IS called a god in certain scriptures. You have “kind of” acknowledged it already, but I want a definitive acknowledgement – one that I can quote for you the next time you forget that Jesus is a “small god” according to scripture.
MIke…….. Listen clearly “OK”, JESUS HIMSELF IS NOT CALLED GOD , BIG OR LITTLE IN ANY SCRIPTURE. I have “NEVER” Acknowledge Jesus as a GOD, big or “little” god , NEVER. You have completely misunderstaood what i have said if you found something in what i said, that may have seem that way.I do recall saying GOD “PRESENCE” was THERE WITH THE “MAN” JESUS and the BIG GOD was “IN” HIM, and Where Thomas said “MY Lord, “AND” MY GOD> When he came to REALIZE GOD the FATHER, WAS TRULY THERE “IN” JESUS HIS Lord. Both His GOD and HIS Lord were there, and that was Not a “little” god present But the BIG GOD and “ONLY” GOD, that was Preasent there.
Mike , I explained to you how the Term God is used and it is never a “little or big God”. it is alway used with the Idea of “YOUR TRUSTED GOD” It is alway PERSONALLY USED in context like, the God of this or that or them or your God , My GOd, Our GOD, Their GOD, it has ONLY ONE MEANING HERE it IS in its simplest terms, “THE POWER YOU TRUST IN”. Now to you Jesus and satan and all the millions of God's people trust in are real Gods, to me they are “FALSE GOD” because i Have ONLY ONE GOD and I acknowledge NO OTHER GOD of any KIND. And that include your so-called god ha-satan also.
Now is that clear enough MIke that is the exact way i see it, you and anyone else can see it anyway you like . Jesus is Not MY GOD , He is My Brother in the Family of GOD, the firstborn in that Family, But non of that makes Him or any other member of that family, a God of any Kind, but members one of another in the family of God.
Now I hope that answered you question as to how i stand concerning the word GOD.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene
Hi Gene,Good Post.
Ex.23:13 “Pay attention to do everything I have told you, and do not even mention the names of other gods – do not let them be heard on your lips.
Peace brother…
ABEare you a Hebrew or Jewish
for quoting EX 23;13
Hi T,I am a Christian. What religion do you profess?
Ex.23:13 “Pay attention to do everything I have told you, and do not even mention the names of other gods – do not let them be heard on your lips.
Peace brother.[/quote]
I am a Christian to the very core of my soul and heartSo why did you not quoted Ex;23;10-13 this was ordinance to the sons of Jacob (Israel)
How could this be applied to the Gentiles
And sins Christ .???We all should understand that the power of words are given by those who speak them,via there own spirit, so if I talk about Satan the God of this world ,would this mean ,that I worship him by saying his name,???
So I also could not attend classes of ancient history and cultures, we're they talk about ,nations believes and their gods,rightThink, if you really do not believe in those gods then they do not receive power from you,right ???no sin is committed .
To all,
A certain clown walked into a temple and testified saying that in the beginning Jehovah has a body composed of a material he had not yet created. {Laugh Track goes here.}
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 17 2013,17:10) Does that include Jesus, Abe? How do you pray to Jehovah through His mediator if you can't mention the mediator's name? Perhaps instead of encouraging Gene in his disbelief of scriptures, you could answer the two questions I asked him instead? (They are in the post directly above yours.)
Go ahead Abe, give it a shot.
Hi Mike,<>
Strong'sTransliterationGreekEnglishMorphology
4314 [e]prosπρὸςuntoPrep
1161 [e]deδὲhoweverConj
3588 [e]tonτὸνtheArt-AMS
5207 [e]huionυἱόνSon,N-AMS
3588 [e]HOὉtheArt-NMS
2362 [e]thronosθρόνοςthroneN-NMS
4771 [e]souσουof you,PPro-G2S
3588 [e]hoὁOArt-NMS
2316 [e]theosθεὸςGod,N-NMS
1519 [e]eisεἰς[is] toPrep (into)
3588 [e]tonτὸνtheArt-AMS
165 [e]aiōnaαἰῶναageN-AMS
3588 [e]touτοῦof theArt-GMS
165 [e]aiōnosαἰῶνοςHowever unto the son the throne of you the God into the age of the age.
Looks to me; Unto the Son the Throne of God into the age
You don't think this verse is calling the Son, God?
Peace brother.
Quote (kerwin @ April 18 2013,10:40) To all, A certain clown walked into a temple and testified saying that in the beginning Jehovah has a body composed of a material he had not yet created. {Laugh Track goes here.}
Kerwinthen their was that clown ,that could not read well ,because he was always joking ,never took something seriously ,and always twisting someone else words ,just for refusing better knowledge ,
but a clown is a clown ;HE COULD NOT UNDERSTAND THAT GOD AS A SPIRITUAL BODY ,SO NOT PHYSICAL,OR MATERIEL ,AND SO WHEN GOD START TO CREATED PHYSICAL THINGS THEY HAVE BEEN DONE A PART FROM HIMSELF ,
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