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Hi 2Besee,
The SEVEN Empires were…
1. Egypt
2. Assyria
3. Babylon
4. Medo-Persia
5. Grecian
6. Roman
7. Ottoman ……………… We are now in the Eighth, which is Mahammadin-isalm. (See Rev.17:9-10 and 13:11)
(all seven gone) The Ottoman islamic Empire suffered a deadly wound – but it was healed. (Rev.13:3)The kingdom of anitchrist is islam,
perhaps you still didn't know. (Read Psalm 83)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi 2Beesee,
The Ottoman Empire (islamic) was the Seventh Empire that suffered a deadly wound.
And it was healed by Muhammadin-islam, which is the Eighth Empire that we are now in.The false prophet Muhammad is depicted in Rev.13:11 as a two horned lamb
that speaks like a dragon. The two horns represent Sunni and Shiite muslims.
The quranic Prophecy (see Gal.1:8 and 2Cor.11:14)“And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come
down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men” (Rev 13:13)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgTerraricca, this is quoted:
http://goodnewspirit.com/clockchapter20.htm
TWO RESURRECTIONS.
John said that the two 'reigns' of Christ will be tied to two resurrections. (Rv.20:5). The first of these two rebirths from death, he said, will launch the thousand year reign of the Gospel and the second will result in God's eternal rule in heaven.
John does not elaborate further on these two ascensions except to inform us that the 'thousand years' itself will separate the two. According to John, the first will inaugurate the millenium and the second will take place on the Day of Judgement (after the millenium ends).
These resurrections are surrounded in mystery. Precisely when the first of them took place is a matter of great interest. John said that it happened just after Satan was placed in his jail in the Abyss. He gives no date for this, but we can assume that it took place some time between 30 A.D. and 95 A.D.
Satan's imprisonment had not yet occurred when Christ was preaching in Galilee. This we know, because Satan himself personally tempted Jesus after his baptism at the Jordan river. (Mt.4). But he was gone by 95 A.D. when John wrote this quotation in the Book of Revelation: “The beast you have seen, once was and now is not…” (Rev.17:8).
The pagan Roman empire was still in existence in 95 A.D., so John could not have been referring to it when he wrote: 'and now is not'. So his words show a millenium that seems already to be in progress by that date.
The 'beast' which had disappeared by 95 A.D., therefore, had to be either Satan or Nero — or more likely, both. Nero died in 68 A.D. If the imprisonment of Satan and the death of Nero both occurred at the same time, the first of the two resurrections described by John probably took place very soon afterwards. Very likely in the year 70 A.D.
There are so many other events which happened around this time, that this year stands out boldly from the rest.
If this is the case, it would mean that God has tied both resurrections to the death of a 'beast' — with each specifically related to a 'rule' of Christ.
The first resurrection (tied to the death of the beast Nero) was related to the millenium (Christ's rule on earth), and the second (tied to the death of the Lawless Rebel at the End) will be related to the coming of the kingdom itself — to Christ's eternal rule in heaven.
The first war against the Church reached a peak of sorts during the reign of Nero. It was at his directive that Peter and Paul and most of the apostles died.
Nero's assault on the Church of Christ was devastating. He specifically targeted its leadership and went after that elite corps with a vengeance unequalled by any of his predecessors or descendants. Nero sparked a reign of terror against Christianity that was equal to and in many ways greater than anyone who has ever followed him.
With his death, an arch-image of the beast died — an Antichrist who bitterly persecuted the Christian Church — the man John has pinpointed as the 'sixth head' of the beast.
The most critical events that launched the thousand-year reign of Christ on earth — the death of Nero, the first resurrection, the deaths of most of the original apostles, and the incarceration of Satan in the Abyss — all seem to coalesce around the year 70 A.D., the same date that Jerusalem and its temple were being destroyed by the Romans.
In fact, the very day that Herod's temple was burned down may itself be significant, because it occurred on August 29th (the 10th of Loos in the Hebrew lunar calendar), the same day the temple of Solomon was burned down by Nebuchaddnezzar when the first exile to Babylon began.
So both temple losses and both exiles to Babylon occurred on the very same calendar day — a fact which seems to further underscore the divine relationship between them.
This one year and day, then, stand out more than any of the others. It was on this same date (August 29th, 70 A.D.) that the Pharisees and Sadducees all disappeared, that the Sanhedrin became defunct, that the High Priest vanished and the 2000 year Jewish diaspora truly began.
Even though intense battles raged afterward, the end of the first war and the beginning of the millenium seem to coincide with events surrounding the death of Nero and the destruction of the Jewish temple.
For all these reasons, it is probable that the first resurrection occurred in 70 A.D., and took place before the end of August that year.
A later date cannot be ruled out, of course. The Church has long celebrated a type of 'resurrection day' on November 1st, for instance, memorializing all Christians who have died in the faith of Christ. It is called 'All Hallow's Day', i.e., 'all who are holy'.
Because in God all things look ahead, perhaps the significance of November 1st is locked to an event that is still to come — i.e., the second and final resurrection. It is possible, of course, that both events are scheduled to share a similar date. We have learned through past experience that God has tied the most significant calendar moments in Hebrew and Christian history together.
A compelling final indication that the first resurrection occurred before 95 A.D. came from Jesus himself when He told John the Apostle that he (John) had to stay behind until He Himself came back. To the others, Jesus said, 'follow me'. (Jn.21:20-23).
When the Apostles questioned him about this, Jesus said to them, “If I want him to stay behind until I come, what does it matter to you? You are to follow me.” (Jn.21:21-22).
Christ's 'coming back' of course, refers to the 'Second Coming' an event which still lies in our future. It is interesting to note that John did not die with the other apostles, but went into prison on the island of Patmos where he wrote the Book of Revelation.
By the time he did die (sometime after 95 A.D), not only had Satan been locked in the Abyss, and Nero passed away, (events John himself confirmed) but the first resurrection had apparently already come and gone.
Because he did not participate in this first resurrection, John had to wait 'until Jesus came' — until the 'Second Coming' for his own resurrection. “The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over.” (Rv.20:5).
This suggests that John will rise with us when Jesus returns. It would seem fitting perhaps, that not only would God lead us into the kingdom of heaven with Apostles, but that he would have one following behind us as well to keep up the rearguard — the one he called his favorite. It would further fulfill what Jesus, Himself, said, “The first shall be last and the last first.”
Except for these first few who died early in the faith, and who are now reigning with God in heaven, most Christians will rise in the second resurrection. John and all those who came after him (ourselves included) will not come to life until Jesus returns. (Rv.20:5).
Until that day (which is now very close) arrives, all the souls of those whose bodies died during the millenium of the last 2000 years will remain near the altar of God, wearing white robes and waiting for the final roll to be completed. (Rv.6:9-11).
One thing is certain. The Christian era does have two resurrections — the first of which occurred just as the millenium started.
This would seem strong evidence that the Apostles, early disciples, friends and family members of Jesus are all alive today in heaven reigning with God right now just as the prophecy in the Book of Revelation's states — actively pa
rticipating with Jesus in the management of His millenial rule on earth.“They came to life and reigned with God for a thousand years.” (Rv.20:4). Their duties and assignments during this period are unknown. Can they plead for mercy on our behalf? The Holy Spirit has told a great many Christians that they can and do.
No one really knows for sure; but considering the majesty of the offices awarded them, and the supreme authority bestowed on them, it seems quite likely that God has given all these Apostles and disciples great power to continue working on behalf of our salvation. ………………………..
………………………….But sin is bringing this world to an end and there is nothing God can do about that except to rescue us from the death that is coming.
The millenium described by John, the thousand-year reign of the Church, has already come — and is now almost gone. There are no additional 'thousand years' of glory in this earth's future — only catastrophe.
The world has already started to rebel against Jesus and when this rebellion becomes full grown, the planet will not be able to survive it's consequences.
Those who do survive will do so only because they have obeyed Jesus.
Ushered by God directly into the highest heaven itself, these survivors will find no way-station to block their procession — no half-way house of limited years.
It is clear in John's words that the millenium's end will bring us to the time of the second resurrection and, with it, the moment of the great wedding feast — a procession that will open the gates to the kingdom of God and to its glorious city, Jerusalem, which has been rebuilt by the deeds of the saints.
This is the real meaning behind those mysterious words written in the Book of Revelation. They tell us about the two great wars against the people of God masterminded by Satan, and of the thousand-year reign of the Church which lies between these two conflicts.
A thousand-year reign bordered by two resurrections of God's faithful.
They are all about the warfare of Satan, the peace of Christ and the judgment of sinners. And for those who have wrapped themselves in Jesus and His Gospel of righteousness, resurrection to eternal life.
Dressed in gowns of brilliant white, holding palms and singing the praises of God (Rv.7:9-10), those whom God has chosen will pass, not into a temporal court, but through heaven's own portals into the majestic eternal kingdom itself .
They will reign with Jesus, not just for a thousand years, but forever.
And when that happens, no one will have to stay behind in the lower sea to spend a transitional 'millenium' waiting for the true eternal kingdom to come.
Hi Ed,
I'll have to get back to you, I have further study which I'm supposed to be doing at this moment!So later.
Quote (2besee @ Oct. 09 2012,20:58) Hi Ed,
I'll have to get back to you, I have further study which I'm supposed to be doing at this moment!So later.
Hi 2Besee,Glad you are aboard!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Oct. 09 2012,22:38) Hi 2Besee, The SEVEN Empires were…
1. Egypt
2. Assyria
3. Babylon
4. Medo-Persia
5. Grecian
6. Roman
7. Ottoman ……………… We are now in the Eighth, which is Mahammadin-isalm. (See Rev.17:9-10 and 13:11)
(all seven gone) The Ottoman islamic Empire suffered a deadly wound – but it was healed. (Rev.13:3)The kingdom of anitchrist is islam,
perhaps you still didn't know. (Read Psalm 83)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
No Ed I don't believe that.Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 09 2012,23:04) Quote (2besee @ Oct. 09 2012,20:58) Hi Ed,
I'll have to get back to you, I have further study which I'm supposed to be doing at this moment!So later.
Hi 2Besee,Glad you are aboard!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Thanks.Quote (2besee @ Oct. 09 2012,22:54) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 09 2012,22:38) Hi 2Besee, The SEVEN Empires were…
1. Egypt
2. Assyria
3. Babylon
4. Medo-Persia
5. Grecian
6. Roman
7. Ottoman ……………… We are now in the Eighth, which is Mahammadin-isalm. (See Rev.17:9-10 and 13:11)
(all seven gone) The Ottoman islamic Empire suffered a deadly wound – but it was healed. (Rev.13:3)The kingdom of anitchrist is islam,
perhaps you still didn't know. (Read Psalm 83)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
No Ed I don't believe that.
Hi 2Besee,,Give it some time; it takes time for the seed of truth to grow (in good soil that is).
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgTo Ed and all,
Here is some reading for you, please read it carefully:I'll copy & paste it:
The Beast of Revelation Revealed At Last!
By Walter Kazimir
A ‘beast’ with seven heads and ten horns; another beast that looks innocent as a lamb but ‘speaks as a dragon;’ a mysterious mark, and that renowned number, 666– what’s it all about? Probably no book has been as misused as the Bible, and no part of the Bible as mystifying and misunderstood as the Revelation. In particular (coincidentally?) one of the more misinterpreted parts of Revelation is Chapter 13– the source of the famous ‘beasts’ and ‘666,’ and so on. My contention is that the eschatological prophecies are deliberately obscure, but that they become increasingly transparent as we approach the ‘End Times’ they describe. The puzzling chapter 13 is the key to this comprehension. This essay investigates that portion of Revelation in the light of recent history.
In the interests of condensing a long discussion into a readable article, I have to assume that the reader has read (better yet studied) the book of Revelation, and moreover, understands that the book defines its strange imagery within its very pages for those who perceive. [For quick reference, the passage can be read here: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev%2013&version=NIV ]
The first eight verses describe a ‘beast’ that rises from the ‘sea,’ having ‘ten horns and seven heads,’ each horn crowned by a diadem, and each head showing ‘blasphemous names.’ We are told that ‘the dragon gave him his power, and throne, and great authority.’ Verse three is crucial, and many have stumbled on it: “I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast.” This amazing beast clearly becomes very powerful, and so arrogant as to blaspheme God, and to persecute His people.
Verses 11 to 18 then turn the spotlight on ‘another beast,’ who comes out of the earth, and who looks like a lamb, externally, but who speaks ‘like a dragon.’ This beast turns world attention on the first beast, and makes everyone worship it. It deceives everyone, and enforces the famous ‘mark’ on the hand or forehand that must be received in order to buy or sell. Chapter 13 ends with the infamous number, 666, ‘the number of the beast,’ that is said to somehow designate ‘a man.’
This short chapter would be pretty difficult to unlock on its own; but it so happens that chapter 17 seems to rehearse the same scenario, but from quite a different perspective. By combining the clues from the two chapters, a coherent picture emerges.
In chapter 17, John is shown a ‘harlot’ sitting on a ‘scarlet beast having seven heads and ten horns,’ clearly establishing a link with the earlier vision (of ch. 13). On her forehead is written the mysterious name ‘Babylon the great, mother of harlots and of the abominations of the Earth.’ She is described as drunk with the blood of the saints. In verse eight the beast is twice described as one that ‘was, and is not, and will come;’ a phrase that is repeated again in verse 11. That verse goes on to state that he is ‘also an eighth and is one of the seven.’ The last verses of chapter 17 describe how ‘ten kings’ will wage war against ‘the Lamb,’ but will be defeated. They turn against the harlot, and destroy her, and the last verse defines her as ‘the great city that reigns over the kings of the earth.’
Now; let’s start putting the clues together, letting scripture define its own terms as much as possible, and always bearing in mind that Revelation is a symbolic book. Most of the symbols used by John echo similar ones used 6 centuries earlier in the book of Daniel, which were explained in the text. Similarly, the angel/guides in Revelation give John the general meanings of the symbols in the visions. Summarizing very briefly, they are…
Beast = ‘kingdom,’ country, empire (Rev 17:10, Dan 7:17); Dragon = Satan, the Devil (Rev 12:9, 20:2); Sea = populous area; the ‘old world’ (Rev 17:15); Horns = kings, rulers (Dan 7:24); Heads = governments, nations; Diadem = sign of authority, rulership; Blasphemous — un-Godly; Tabernacle=the ‘church’, ‘saints’, who are spiritually residents of heaven; harlot = apostate faith community (Ezek 23:4); judgment = fate, punishment; waters = people, populations (Rev 17:15). Also, we should know that numbers are used symbolically in the Bible, where seven indicates perfection, completion; and ten stands for a complete or inclusive set. Many commentators, ancient and modern, have become hopelessly sidetracked because they do not accept the Bible’s own definitions, and try to impose their own! For example, many pundits have assumed that the beasts stand for people (e.g. the Pope); but the scriptures don’t say that; they tell us explicitly that they’re kingdoms (or nations, today).
Re-capping the main points of the text in plain language, we can see that:
- The text refers to a kingdom (nation) that had disappeared (was slain) at the time of John’s writing (set at about 90 AD), yet would reappear later in history;
- when this nation reappears it will cause people to be amazed;
- this nation is associated with the name of a man; and perhaps aspires to attain godly heights… their way.
- this nation was among a group of 7 that existed in a then-populous region– i.e. the Middle East– before it was extinguished;
- when it reappears, it will be in some ‘new’ form (different from the first appearance);
- this nation is associated with a false religion somehow;
- another nation appears later (after John’s day), that will be closely allied with the restored nation– it wasn’t one of the original 7; but when it arises in a less populous area, it will enforce homage to the restored nation;
- the ‘new nation’ will first appear benign (lamb-like), but will issue draconian edicts that will cause all other nations to ‘fall into line’ with it;
- the new nation is being directed by a false, apostate religion;
- there seems to be a blurring between ‘the woman’ as a church and as a ‘city,’ but in any case, there is a highly urbanized nation that exercises hegemony over all other nations;
- a set of ‘ten’ symbolic kingdoms arise in the end-times and they give their ‘power and authority’ to the restored kingdom for a brief time (ch. 17:12-13) until Jesus defeats them.
When you look at the facts laid out like this, while there may still be some fuzzy details, nonetheless, certain conclusions jump out as inescapable!
As soon as you mention ‘restored nation’ the obvious candidate that leaps out is ‘Israel’. Its name comes directly from ‘a man,’ their patriarch Jacob who was renamed Israel (Gen 32:28). Ancient Israel was one of a group of seven prominent kingdoms in the Middle East that includes Egypt, Assyria, Persia, Greece, Babylonia, and Rome. With their rejection of the Messiah, Israel’s cherished cultural religion, Judaism, became an antichristian blasphemy. As a nation, Israel has always aspired to ‘help’ God do things their way. From the taking of the Promised Land, to the Pharisaical plot to eliminate Jesus, the children of Israel preferred their deeds over God’s providence. The dramatic restoration of the Jewish homeland, named Israel, in the land of Palestine in 1948 was indeed seen as amazing, even miraculous, by the on-looking world. While many assumed that it must be due to God’s intervention, others who have investigated the creation of modern Israel, find that it was, instead, due to conniving plans dating back to the late 19th century (as Zionism, promoted by Herzl) and renewed following the First World War, by the Balfour Declaration. It was not God’s hand that was involved, but that of the Dragon, motiva
ting Zionist agents behind the scenes of diplomacy.The Bible had this insight long before any modern pundit could possibly discern the covert machinations that culminated in a restored Jewish state. However, this resuscitated nation is a pretender! Altho populated by Jews (progeny of Judah, one of Israel’s 12 sons), they call themselves Israel, in pretense of comprising the original, full 12 tribes of Jacob. Even IF all 12 tribes should be ‘represented’ in today’s Israel (as claimed), Jewish researchers have found that those known as Ashkenazi Jews (who engineered the takeover of Palestine) are actually descended from the Khazar people, who lived in the Caucasus region, and whose king made his whole nation convert to Judaism in the eighth century. And whereas ancient Israel, the state, occasionally worshipped the true God, the new nation follows a worldly, ultra-nationalist, pseudo-religion known as Zionism. Thus, ‘Israel’ has reappeared, but in a new, ersatz format, just as predicted. (See also, Rev 3:9 for another hint about Israel.)
Now, the second prominent nation, the later one that originates in a less populous region, seems to reach its zenith near the culmination of apocalyptic events. Again, on the evidence, there’s one nation that immediately springs to mind– the USA. Obviously, it didn’t exist at the time of John. And when it did appear, it arose in the ‘new world’, far from the populations of the old world. With its declaration of the rights and freedoms of individuals, particularly in regard to religious worship, the USA indeed looked lamb-like, and the two horns could symbolize the separation of church and state. Lately, there is no doubt about the dragon-like voice with which the US government has been throwing its weight around the world over the last 60 years or more. All nations of the world are compelled to heed the voice of the US government, whether they like it or not. In the vivid imagery of Revelation, this beast calls down fire from heaven, and deceives the Earth with the ‘signs’ he has the power to perform in front of the world (vs. 13-14). This made little sense– until the dropping of atomic bombs on Japan in 1945, and recapitulated in the ‘Shock and Awe’ invasion of Iraq. Now it reads as prescient indeed! Especially now that we know the extent to which deception was used to justify war.
The lobbying of the ‘religious right’ has become increasingly influential since the Reagan presidency of the 1980s. It is a profane, false Christianity influencing affairs in D.C., and through their warped interpretation of eschatology, they are closely linked to Zionist (‘Judaic’) interests (hence, ‘Judeo-Christianity’). That is the cursory analysis of ‘the harlot riding the beast.’ However, one could argue that the religious right is still, nominally, Christian, and not exactly what the prophecy points to. There exists a more covert connection between an abominable religion and the US administration. Summarizing a vast amount of evidence, there is undeniable evidence that the individuals who populate the US administration are linked to a panoply of occult practices and symbolism that can be traced back to ancient Babylon. These politicians congregate at the ‘Bohemian Grove’ (California) annually to indulge in bizarre, satanic rituals. That is their abominable, antichristian religion. It is well known that G.W. Bush, J.F. Kerry, and many other political figures are members of the Yale U. secret society called the ‘Skull and Bones.’ Many high-placed officials in Washington are associated with various occult/Masonic societies, as a little Internet research will attest. It could be sensibly argued that these ‘mystery cults’ of the elite more accurately represent the prostitute of the prophecy.
One can think of Zionism as a geo-political conspiracy for the ‘New World Order’ whose top names come largely from the ranks of Jews. In any case, it is indisputable that Washington is dominated by Zionist interests promoted by Israeli-American ‘dual-citizens.’ Leveraging these ‘inside assets,’ the Israeli government exerts pressure over the USA, particularly to do its dirty work in the Middle East. For decades the US delegation has used its veto in the Security Council of the United Nations to prevent censure of Israel. Lately, US foreign policy seems to be dictated by Tel Aviv. The First and Second Gulf Wars make little sense except when analyzed in the light of Israel using US military power to subdue its enemies. When Israel invaded Lebanon in 2006, and Gaza in 2008, deliberately destroying civilian infrastructure and killing non-combatants, the US waited until it was too late before expressing some measure of reservation over the Israeli depredations. While Israel and the USA make an uproar about supposed nuclear ambitions by Iran, they simply ignore the open secret that Israel already possesses nuclear weapons, and has the means to deploy them. Any nation fingered by Washington must jump and salute; however, Israel gets a free pass. In other words, the ‘second beast’– the USA– causes the rest of the world to worship the first beast– Israel. The trend is so marked that we can see that it’s a hallmark of the ‘New World Order.’
As many commentators have speculated, the 10 horns (of 17:12) probably refer to the countries of the European Union, that have had reservations about Israel’s policies towards the Palestinians, yet in the end, support the US-British backing of Israel. Once EU membership exceeded ten nations, some pundits abandoned this view. But they fail to note that ‘ten’ is simply a symbolic count for an inclusive set. And in any case, only ten or fewer countries have significant influence on EU foreign affairs. This view also accords with Daniel’s vision of the statue in chapter 2, where the feet and toes (‘of iron mixed with clay’) have long been identified as the ‘revived Roman Empire’ embodied in the modern EU, with its strained mix of strong and feeble economies.
Many commentators have taken the picture of ‘buying and selling’ in chapter 13 quite literally, and have weaved some rather bizarre scenarios based on that view (e.g. micro-chips, bar-codes in people’s flesh). However, it’s not unreasonable to take the figure as symbolic… but, of what? Perhaps Proverbs 23:23 gives a clue: “Buy truth, and do not sell it, Get wisdom and instruction and understanding.” By means of so-called ‘anti-hate’ laws, it is becoming almost impossible for anyone to legitimately question Israeli policies and actions. Increasingly, no one in Western societies can dare openly criticize Israel without unleashing severe censure. It doesn’t take much imagination to foresee a time when any expression of reservation about Israel will result in prison or even death. And yet, how can we ‘get understanding’ if any criticism of Israel is crushed by so-called ‘anti-hate laws?’ Zechariah 11:4-6 is another passage that puts buying and selling in the context of duplicitous and predatory exploitation of one class by another, and God’s judgment on them. So, Rev 13:17 may be alluding to the fact that no one can speak truth about Israel and religion, but only mouth what the state permits.
Nonetheless, with the huge crises in the world banking system in recent years, it is equally possible that the ‘buying and selling’ may be literal. A little research will confirm that the global banking regime is largely in the hands of a cabal of Jews, and that they have, in fact, implemented a key strategy cited in the enigmatic ‘Protocols of Zion.’ That is, the world’s banks are under the management of a tiny elite, and all money is regarded as debt owed to them. Hence, they have total control over money, and with the advent of computerized records systems and banking cards, the banks can exert unparalleled monitoring of transactions (ie. buying and selling). Many pundits have postulated that we are heading for a system where micro-chips will replace tangible money, and the
prophetic vision could be realized literally.The one piece of the puzzle that escapes me at present is the question of the ‘image of the beast.’ While the other pieces fall into place fairly neatly, this one is far from obvious, at least at this time. I expect that it will become apparent as events unfold, but for the time being, the image is an open question. The NIV translates the passage as: “an image in honor of the beast.” The NASB and the KJV translation is: “an image to the beast.” In the Amplified Bible, the passage reads: “a statue (an image) in the likeness of the beast.” So, we have the later nation commanding the inhabitants of the earth to ‘make an image’ that represents the first (restored) nation in some manner.
My guess is that the construction of the image hasn’t yet happened, and when it does, we will be close to the end of the game. I predict that when the USA proposes some kind of ‘solution’ to the Middle East crisis that involves enforced homage to something that stands for (symbolizes, represents) the state of Israel, then we will recognize the fulfillment of this graphic prophecy. I expect that whatever it is, it will be a surprise to all, yet clear to those who remember scripture.
The other puzzle-piece is the ultimate uncovering of the false, apostate, mystic religion that masquerades as Judeo-Christianity, and that exercises covert control over the nations. It has long been realized that the Vatican, seat of Roman Catholic authority, is full of mystic symbolism derived from Egyptian and Babylonian sources. And since ‘Mystery Babylon’ is the ‘mother of ALL harlots,’ then all the Christian denominations are implicated, not just Roman Catholicism. Similarly, modern Judaism, via the Talmud, is heavily influenced by Kabbalah, a mystic school that dates back to the time of their captivity in ancient Babylon. Some investigators claim covert connections between the Vatican and Zionists, and although those theories are speculative, there’s no doubting the common lineage of their mystic symbolism, namely, Babylon.
Finally, I should anticipate one observation that some readers who are versed in history may raise. The predictive imagery of widespread, bloody persecution of true believers by an apostate church prevailing upon government to do its bidding, may ring familiar. Yes, it happened during the Dark Ages, when the official, Rome-based Church persecuted ‘heretics’ of all kinds, especially those who revered the Bible. However, it is possible for prophecy to have a primary, literal fulfillment, and a later, figurative reprise. Thus, the persecution of the first millennium could be repeated in its characteristics in this third millennium, with different actors but the same plot… and a much shorter time frame. Indeed, almost all exponents of eschatology have identified the (first) Beast (of Rev. 13) as the Roman Catholic Church or the European Union. But, the reader should see, now, that this can’t be: John repeats the phrase ‘that was, and is not, and will come’ for the purpose of making a point. That point should not be lost on us, latter day readers, who need it most! (Refer to item no. 1, above, in the summary of facts). Only Israel had existed prior to John’s last book (ca. 90 AD), had gone into oblivion in 70 AD, and ‘re-appeared’ two millennia later. This ‘beast’ therefore, cannot be the Roman church or the EU… nor some yet-to-emerge ‘Antichrist!’ With the acuity of hindsight, I think it is clear that the prophecies of Daniel focus on the history of the early Christian church, while those of Revelation move the spotlight to the End of the Age, and the geo-political turmoil of these times.
Conclusions
What I hope this analysis demonstrates is that without imposing a lot of exogenous, novel, dogmatic interpretations on the text, and allowing the scriptures to illuminate themselves, a sensible picture readily emerges… and, without the need of a Ph.D. in something or other to do so. And another important thing is that the Bible is not a book of science-fiction or technological predictions. The abstract scenes in Revelation are sketches of geo-political and geo-religious currents, not of helicopters, atomic weapons, and so on (as sensationally claimed by some American Evangelicals). And note that the whole panorama would not be comprehensible until the time when it is needed.
We must note that the text had to be written in such a way that an accurate prophecy can be presented without being so obvious that unscrupulous forces could suppress or alter it. And yet, the clues are skillfully encoded so that someone who has a reasonable understanding of history, and allows the scripture to explain itself, can gain a clear grasp of who the actors are, and what they are doing. Still, the picture only clarifies after the fact; i.e. after the forecast events actually begin, or as they unfold. In this process, it is astonishing to see how a book written millennia ago in a far-off land contains a description of the geo-political and religious situation that has unfolded over the last, mere half-century or so… within the lifetime of many who read this article. Friends, you can’t make this stuff up– no human mind could produce the bizarre vision-clips of Revelation, and use them to accurately predict world political events 2,000 years in the future!
Clearly, the prophecies are designed to demonstrate and reveal that God is real and supreme, and that we can’t determine what will happen next– it is entirely in His hands. Our job is just to trust and believe. I pray that sincere atheists will read this essay and have their eyes opened to the beauty of God’s scriptures. Remember, the Bible has been in a more or less final, ‘canonical’ state for many centuries. The prophecies survived intact to this day for the very purpose of demonstrating the genius behind them. No human could have achieved such a feat– that’s why this book is truly a Revelation!
Interesting theory 2besee. But then so is Edj's and so is a 10 leader superstate of Europe.
All worth looking at, but IMO, not worth backing anyone of them yet as we need more evidence due to many possibilities.I do have a quick question for you.
What do you say about the verse that talks about being blessed for blessing Israel and being cursed for cursing them. Many think that the day the USA goes against Israel is the day that they will receive a curse for doing so. Is your take that it is talking about Old Israel.
And what of the OT prophecies that talk about the restoration of Israel. Last time I read them, they didn't appear to be condemning about this restoration.
Hi t8.
This is in response to your other thread on the RCC which I was going to post first, so I'll put it here, because it is related.
Concerning the RCC/Pope, etc…
I personally don't think there is anything to worry about with the Pope or with Catholics in general, alot of them have good hearts and know truth – even if going by the way of their heart which we will be judged on.
There are of course many sites, all over the web and many writings showing the Pope and the RCC to be the Antichrist, etc. I though have not had any feelings about them whatsoever.
They apologised to all concerning their past, I don't feel they will repeat it anytime at all.
Yes, there are “Mysteries” in the Catholic Church and many odd things going on, and the sin, even secrets, but….
Several years ago I had feelings about certain places.
Only just in the past couple of weeks is it all coming back to me,
I plan to read the Book of Revelations again from beginning to end, I have started with Chapter 1, and am making notes.
I have not been following much news at all for the past year or so. In just the last week I have been.
Yesterday, something about Romney…. last week, Israel and Netanyahu.. .
I used some key words on Net in a Google search and the results made me feel a sinking feeling, something is in this.
————————
In response to your question regarding Israel….
The answers are here if you would like to read them:
http://www.nkusa.org/
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/I learnt alot off these sites about how these Jews view Scripture and it was an interesting read, except I can't find the articles I originally read, they are on there somewhere.
They believe much differently and are against Zionism.
I think this is the page, or one of them:
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/differencejudzion.htmlHi Besee
Thanks for posting that info.
I would like to comment on a few things. Please bear in mind that the author is giving his interpretation. He goes very well up to a certain point, then goes way off track. I would like to show you that we can compare everything to the scriptures.Quote A ‘beast’ with seven heads and ten horns; another beast that looks innocent as a lamb but ‘speaks as a dragon;
This beast does not look as innocent as a lamb. He just has two horns like a lamb does.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns LIKE a lamb.
This is not a major, doesn't affect the interpretation just yet, but something to consider.Quote Beast = ‘kingdom,’ country, empire (Rev 17:10, Dan 7:17);
Yes and no.
This beast consists of ALL the RULING EMPIRES, rolled into ONE. From beginning to end
Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemyQuote Dragon = Satan, the Devil (Rev 12:9, 20:2); Sea = populous area; the ‘old world’ (Rev 17:15);
The interpretation of sea is correct, but where he gets “old world from” I don't know?Quote Horns = kings, rulers (Dan 7:24); Heads = governments, nations;
HEADS should be EMPIRES. This is very important. An empire controls MANY nations and governments.Quote (Rev 17:15). Also, we should know that numbers are used symbolically in the Bible, where seven indicates perfection, completion; and ten stands for a complete or inclusive set.
Where does the author get this from? If ten is a compete set, then why were there 12 apostles, and why were there 12 tribes of Israel?Quote - The text refers to a kingdom (nation) that had disappeared (was slain) at the time of John’s writing (set at about 90 AD), yet would reappear later in history;
Lets look at this beast mentioned hereRev 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the WOMAN, and of THE BEAST THAT CARRIETH HER, which has seven heads and ten horns.
Yes this is the same beast coming out of the sea in Rev 13:1. This beast is consisting of ALL THE EMPIRES from beginning to end time. Not just speaking about one particular empire, but ALL OF THEM. Keep this in mind.Quote - when this nation reappears it will cause people to be amazed;
This beast is NOT A NATION. It is ALL THE EMPIRES ROLLED INTO ONE. Ruling empires that is. This woman is sitting on all the empires that has ruled from the beginning to the end time. Using the word NATION and concentrating on this throws the interpretation way out.Quote - this nation is associated with the name of a man; and perhaps aspires to attain godly heights… their way.
Firstly, the author is describing the beast with 7 heads and ten horns, now he jumps to the 2nd beast rising out of the earth (rev 13:11 & 13:18). Going all over the place now.
The number is a number of a man. Not a number of a nation.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is six hundred threescore and six.Quote - this nation was among a group of 7 that existed in a then-populous region– i.e. the Middle East– before it was extinguished;
Again, not a nation, but ALL THE EMPIRES – 7 heads and ten horns. His interpretation now leads us off track, because he didn't understand the symbol of the beast in Rev 13:1.Quote - this nation is associated with a false religion somehow;
Off track now, very very lost….continued
2besee,Oct. wrote:[/quote]
continuedQuote - another nation appears later (after John’s day), that will be closely allied with the restored nation– it wasn’t one of the original 7; but when it arises in a less populous area, it will enforce homage to the restored nation;
No, scripture, but if he's refering to this?.Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet it.
This is not speaking of a nation.
John saw this beast that the woman sits on, and it consists of ALL THE RULING EMPIRES from beginning to end. Now, this very same beast that John saw is ascending out of the BOTTOMLESS PIT. It doesn't ascend out of the SEA here, like it did before, or out of the EARTH like the other beast, but out of the BOTTOMLESS PIT? It's coming from somewhere else now, so it's not speaking in quite the same language as before.
This beast was there before Johns time, but not during his time, but will come after Johns time. Well we know it comes at the END.
So what is it?What happened in the beginning according to Genesis? Something everybody misses.
Genesis 10:10 And the BEGINNING of his KINGDOM was BABEL….
Genesis 11:1 And the WHOLE EARTH was of ONE LANGUAGE, and of ONE SPEECH.…….BABEL……..
ONE LANGUAGE
ONE SPEECH
ONE PEOPLE
ONE LEADER
COMPLETE UNITYThis is the beast that was, and is not and yet is.
This was Satan's plan from the beginning.
UNITY, ALL BECOMING ONE
By bringing the world “together” AGAIN as ONE
He will have the POWER to CONTROL
not just one nation, but ALL NATIONS. ALL MEN. Just like he did back then in BABEL.Genesis 11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a CITY and a TOWER, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
Sound familiar?
Nearly every one speaks english. But we don't all speak english do we. English is the dominant language, but this language that all will speak is his language
and not all have to know english in order to WORSHIP him through HIS MAN.
Not all have to know english in order to receive HIS MARK, through HIS MAN.
Not all have to know english in order to trade through HIS SYSTEM, through the system HIS BEAST, and HIS MAN will enforce.
Or am I wrong?, and will he force all to speak one language again? Have to wait and see.so ALL will be ONE AGAIN.
ONE MAN (False prophet)
ONE RELIGION (his)
ONE GOD (Satan)
ONE CURRENCY (the Mark)Now hopefully you can see where this interpretation goes out, because now, everything will contradict the scriptures.
Quote - the ‘new nation’ will first appear benign (lamb-like), but will issue draconian edicts that will cause all other nations to ‘fall into line’ with it;
This lamb like person he is incorrectly referring to is the FALSE PROPHET. Not a nation, but a SPIRITUAL LEADER, and a WORLD leader of this last end time KINGDOMQuote - there seems to be a blurring between ‘the woman’ as a church and as a ‘city,’ but in any case, there is a highly urbanized nation that exercises hegemony over all other nations;
There definately is a blurring here. “The woman” is not a church, but all the empires she sits on and her empires that dominates all the nations belong to her spiritual city called “Babylon the Great” and she is the MOTHER of it. THE CREATOR OF HER SPIRITUAL WICKED CITYRev 17:5 Mystery, BABYLON THE GREAT, The Mother of Harlots, and Abominations of the Earth.
Quote As soon as you mention ‘restored nation’ the obvious candidate that leaps out is ‘Israel’.
Israel was a nation, but never an empire. If this author knew how to discern the prophesies, he would understand that Israel will get trodden down by the gentiles, and the false prophet will plant his tabernacle there. Israel will not be restored until Christ returns, so they do not fit the picture here.
I need not continue because the rest is scripture, mixed with guesswork and not knowledge.Quote (t8 @ Oct. 10 2012,20:13) Interesting theory 2besee. But then so is Edj's and so is a 10 leader superstate of Europe.
All worth looking at, but IMO, not worth backing anyone of them yet as we need more evidence due to many possibilities.I do have a quick question for you.
What do you say about the verse that talks about being blessed for blessing Israel and being cursed for cursing them. Many think that the day the USA goes against Israel is the day that they will receive a curse for doing so. Is your take that it is talking about Old Israel.
And what of the OT prophecies that talk about the restoration of Israel. Last time I read them, they didn't appear to be condemning about this restoration.
Hi T8,Thanks!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (journey42 @ Oct. 11 2012,05:21) Hi Besee Quote (Rev 17:15). Also, we should know that numbers are used symbolically in the Bible, where seven indicates perfection, completion; and ten stands for a complete or inclusive set.
Where does the author get this from? If ten is a compete set, then why were there 12 apostles, and why were there 12 tribes of Israel?….continued
Hi Georgie,10 is indeed a complete cycle x10, x100, x1,000…
The 12 Apostles are illustrative of the 12 tribes of Israel,
10 Northern tribes and 2 Southern tribes (Judah and Benjamin). (see Joshua 4:8,9 & 12)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Oct. 11 2012,10:28) Quote (t8 @ Oct. 10 2012,20:13) Interesting theory 2besee. But then so is Edj's and so is a 10 leader superstate of Europe.
All worth looking at, but IMO, not worth backing anyone of them yet as we need more evidence due to many possibilities.I do have a quick question for you.
What do you say about the verse that talks about being blessed for blessing Israel and being cursed for cursing them. Many think that the day the USA goes against Israel is the day that they will receive a curse for doing so. Is your take that it is talking about Old Israel.
And what of the OT prophecies that talk about the restoration of Israel. Last time I read them, they didn't appear to be condemning about this restoration.
Hi T8,Thanks!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Advertising yourself again Ed?Quote (journey42 @ Oct. 11 2012,10:36) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 11 2012,10:28) Quote (t8 @ Oct. 10 2012,20:13) Interesting theory 2besee. But then so is Edj's and so is a 10 leader superstate of Europe.
All worth looking at, but IMO, not worth backing anyone of them yet as we need more evidence due to many possibilities.I do have a quick question for you.
What do you say about the verse that talks about being blessed for blessing Israel and being cursed for cursing them. Many think that the day the USA goes against Israel is the day that they will receive a curse for doing so. Is your take that it is talking about Old Israel.
And what of the OT prophecies that talk about the restoration of Israel. Last time I read them, they didn't appear to be condemning about this restoration.
Hi T8,Thanks!
God bless
Ed J
Advertising yourself again Ed?
Hi Georgie,Do you not see the truth in what I say? did you ever
answer my question in the “A prophets reward” thread?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (2besee @ Oct. 10 2012,19:27) I'll copy & paste it: The Beast of Revelation Revealed At Last!
By Walter Kazimir
Hi 2besee,The U.S.A.? …you got to be kidding, are you serious? …would the two horns then be the Democrats and Republicans?
HA Ha ha ha!!!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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