Islam

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
All of creation knows that except rebellious man who has served the devil since Eden.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Gene @ July 28 2009,09:12)

DB………If you do not accept the death of Jesus as Payment for your sins, then you have no life in you brother. Scripture says Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Yours and Mine brother, we are (purchased with great Price. Do you find that hard to believe, Jesus life was the price payed , He was GOD sacrificial Lamb given for the sins of the whole world. You will come back and say, why did GOD have to Pay anything for Our sins, It was because GOD requires Justice for sin and the penalty for sin is death, so He removed the Penalty of death  by the sacrifice of Jesus. God so loved the world that He gave His uniquely begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not parish but have eternal life. There is no forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood. If you say you believe Jesus' words then you ought to believe this also brother. IMO peace and love to you and yours……………………gene

Gene

I understand your position but as I understand it The Lamb of God takes away the sins and is not killed or sacrificed as I pointed out before in leviticus.

Leviticus 16:21 (King James Version)

And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

Now compare that with this:

Matthew 11
11. Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

John 1 (King James Version)

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

So just as in leviticus in John, we have the Lamb of God that “Takes away the sins of the world” Then you have
Jesus being baptized for the remission of sin but we all agree that Jesus was sinless so why be baptized? For the remission of the sins of the world!

The Lamb of God must be presented ALIVE

Study that closely and may God guide you, brother.

God revealed these verses to me before I ever read the Quran and no muslim that I know of teaches this but right after God taught me this amazing revelation he then guided me to the Quran and it confirmed what God had taught me.

Think about it what is the hardest thing to bear as a Christian? So why does Jesus and Paul say somethings you cannot bear right now?

That's because Christians in general believe that if Christ did not die there is no salvation but that's not what Jesus says. Jesus says that to Know the One and only God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent is Eternal Life.

Matthew 18

23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.

24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.

25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.

26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
In christ is life beyond death.
He died by crucifixion and your fairytale does not compute.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2009,10:33)

Hi BD, In christ is life beyond death. He died by crucifixion and your fairytale does not compute.

Are you saying that there is no life beyond death except in Christ?

There is no resurrection without Christ? That's odd because Jesus preached the reserrection before he died (according to the scriptures)

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2009,17:37)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2009,09:07) Hi BD Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2009,16:40) You just proved for yourself That ALLAH is Supreme and UNIQUE having no equal. No I just proved that your claim Jesus mentioned Allahs name is a lie. Now you say that Osama Bin Ladins God is yours! WJ God is the God of all flesh and spirit, He judges those who do evil for what they have don and He judges what is good and right and rewards those who do those things. There are no gods and hence you are correct there is no such word as allahs There is ALLAH and there is no other god besides Him. He is your God and my God so take heed and refrain from arrogance as you don't want to speak against God while being unaware of it, do you?

No

Allah is not my God! Jesus never mentioned the name Allah.

You are teaching lies if you teach the Quran!

WJ

[KangarooJack]

bodhitharta said:

Quote

you should have put in bold writing this part of your quote Islam teaches that other religions have, in one way or another, distorted and nullified a pure and proper belief in Almighty God by neglecting His true teachings and mixing them with man-made ideas. The trinity is such a corruption Jesus is a being that you call God The Father is another being that you call God and the Holy Spirit is a third being that you call God You believe in 3 distinct beings who rule. What a corruption!

bd,
No corruption occurred. The bold was for emphasis. Corruption would have occurred if I had left out that part of the statement. I was showing Gene that Muslims do not say that Christians (trinitarians)  worship three gods. Btw, did you notice that it says that the Trinity and the incarnation are “Christian” doctrines? In other words, they say your beliefs are true but not “Christian.”

thinker

[NickHassan]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 28 2009,10:41)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2009,10:33) Hi BD, In christ is life beyond death. He died by crucifixion and your fairytale does not compute. Are you saying that there is no life beyond death except in Christ? There is no resurrection without Christ? That's odd because Jesus preached the reserrection before he died (according to the scriptures)

Hi BD,
You may hope desperately that the mercy of God reaches you but Jesus is the way given to men.

[KangarooJack]

bodhitharta said:

Quote

You believe in 3 distinct beings who rule.

bd,
Your own Muslim brothers deny that trinitarians are polytheistic,

Quote

For example, Muslims – like Jews – reject the Christian beliefs of the Trinity and the Divine Incarnation. This, however, does not mean that each of these three religions worships a different God – because, as we have already said, there is only One True God.  Judaism, Christianity and Islam all claim to be “Abrahamic Faiths”, and all of them are also classified as “monotheistic.” However, Islam teaches that other religions have, in one way or another, distorted and nullified a pure and proper belief in Almighty God by neglecting His true teachings and mixing them with man-made ideas.

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/195/

It is true they say that christianity (trinitarianism) is a “corruption.” But that is a far cry from saying that trinitarians are polytheistic.

thinker

[bodhitharta]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2009,10:45)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2009,17:37) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2009,09:07) Hi BD Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2009,16:40) You just proved for yourself That ALLAH is Supreme and UNIQUE having no equal. No I just proved that your claim Jesus mentioned Allahs name is a lie. Now you say that Osama Bin Ladins God is yours! WJ God is the God of all flesh and spirit, He judges those who do evil for what they have don and He judges what is good and right and rewards those who do those things. There are no gods and hence you are correct there is no such word as allahs There is ALLAH and there is no other god besides Him. He is your God and my God so take heed and refrain from arrogance as you don't want to speak against God while being unaware of it, do you? No Allah is not my God! Jesus never mentioned the name Allah. You are teaching lies if you teach the Quran! WJ

Jesus never mentioned the name “God” as he was not german and Jesus never heard himself be called Jesus as he is not latin

I think I made a great point(Thanks to God) so I hope for now on you will stop calling Jesus “Jesus” since that should go against your belief.

So is Yeshua your Messiah? he can't be your Christ as that I believe is greek.

Oh did I ever tell you about the story of the tower of babel? It's the reason why we have so many languages today.

So when I say House another person from spain might say Casa and not understanding I might say that's not my Casa

This is why I said don't be arrogant why say something against God, even rejecting Him because you have a language barrier?

If I say the creator of everything wouldn't that by neccessity mean God Almighty or is there someone else that creates everything?

So for you Jesus is Allah, The Father is Allah and The Holy Spirit is Allah.

Sounds funny when you perceive ALLAH as ONE UNIQUE SOVEREIGN BEING, huh

But if you were preaching the trinity to an Arab muslim that's what you would have to say.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (thethinker @ July 28 2009,10:57)

bodhitharta said: Quote you should have put in bold writing this part of your quote Islam teaches that other religions have, in one way or another, distorted and nullified a pure and proper belief in Almighty God by neglecting His true teachings and mixing them with man-made ideas. The trinity is such a corruption Jesus is a being that you call God The Father is another being that you call God and the Holy Spirit is a third being that you call God You believe in 3 distinct beings who rule. What a corruption! bd, No corruption occurred. The bold was for emphasis. Corruption would have occurred if I had left out that part of the statement. I was showing Gene that Muslims do not say that Christians (trinitarians)  worship three gods. Btw, did you notice that it says that the Trinity and the incarnation are “Christian” doctrines? In other words, they say your beliefs are true but not “Christian.” thinker

I wasn't saying that you corrupted your quote I was saying that your teachings are corrupted

The trinity and incarnation are Christian Doctrines in-fact to be more precise they are Catholic doctrines which is why I don't understand why you don't embrace the Catholic Church.

I don't think even WJ is a member of The Catholic Church how is it you take their doctrines and deny them?

[KangarooJack]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 28 2009,09:37)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2009,09:07) Hi BD Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2009,16:40) You just proved for yourself That ALLAH is Supreme and UNIQUE having no equal. No I just proved that your claim Jesus mentioned Allahs name is a lie. Now you say that Osama Bin Ladins God is yours! WJ God is the God of all flesh and spirit, He judges those who do evil for what they have don and He judges what is good and right and rewards those who do those things. There are no gods and hence you are correct there is no such word as allahs There is ALLAH and there is no other god besides Him. He is your God and my God so take heed and refrain from arrogance as you don't want to speak against God while being unaware of it, do you?

God is not the God of all. If so, then Jesus could never say “Depart from me, I never knew you” (Matthew 25).

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 28 2009,11:13)

Quote (thethinker @ July 28 2009,10:57) bodhitharta said: Quote you should have put in bold writing this part of your quote Islam teaches that other religions have, in one way or another, distorted and nullified a pure and proper belief in Almighty God by neglecting His true teachings and mixing them with man-made ideas. The trinity is such a corruption Jesus is a being that you call God The Father is another being that you call God and the Holy Spirit is a third being that you call God You believe in 3 distinct beings who rule. What a corruption! bd, No corruption occurred. The bold was for emphasis. Corruption would have occurred if I had left out that part of the statement. I was showing Gene that Muslims do not say that Christians (trinitarians)  worship three gods. Btw, did you notice that it says that the Trinity and the incarnation are “Christian” doctrines? In other words, they say your beliefs are true but not “Christian.” thinker I wasn't saying that you corrupted your quote I was saying that your teachings are corrupted The trinity and incarnation are Christian Doctrines in-fact to be more precise they are Catholic doctrines which is why I don't understand why you don't embrace the Catholic Church. I don't think even WJ is a member of The Catholic Church how is it you take their doctrines and deny them?

Then all anti-trinitarians here do not hold to Christian doctrine. Thank you. This was an important admission on your part.

thinker

[KangarooJack]

bodhitharta said:

Quote

The trinity and incarnation are Christian Doctrines in-fact to be more precise they are Catholic doctrines which is why I don't understand why you don't embrace the Catholic Church.

I don't embrace the Catholic Church. But I won't throw out the baby with the bath water.

thinker

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2009,19:09)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2009,10:45) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2009,17:37) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2009,09:07) Hi BD Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2009,16:40) You just proved for yourself That ALLAH is Supreme and UNIQUE having no equal. No I just proved that your claim Jesus mentioned Allahs name is a lie. Now you say that Osama Bin Ladins God is yours! WJ God is the God of all flesh and spirit, He judges those who do evil for what they have don and He judges what is good and right and rewards those who do those things. There are no gods and hence you are correct there is no such word as allahs There is ALLAH and there is no other god besides Him. He is your God and my God so take heed and refrain from arrogance as you don't want to speak against God while being unaware of it, do you? No Allah is not my God! Jesus never mentioned the name Allah. You are teaching lies if you teach the Quran! WJ Jesus never mentioned the name “God” as he was not german and Jesus never heard himself be called Jesus as he is not latin I think I made a great point(Thanks to God) so I hope for now on you will stop calling Jesus “Jesus” since that should go against your belief. So is Yeshua your Messiah? he can't be your Christ as that I believe is greek. Oh did I ever tell you about the story of the tower of babel? It's the reason why we have so many languages today. So when I say House another person from spain might say Casa and not understanding I might say that's not my Casa This is why I said don't be arrogant why say something against God, even rejecting Him because you have a language barrier? If I say the creator of everything wouldn't that by neccessity mean God Almighty or is there someone else that creates everything? So for you Jesus is Allah, The Father is Allah and The Holy Spirit is Allah. Sounds funny when you perceive ALLAH as ONE UNIQUE SOVEREIGN BEING, huh But if you were preaching the trinity to an Arab muslim that's what you would have to say.

Hi BD

Did you totally miss the earlier post, or do you just stop your ears.

In Arabic, “GOD” means “Allah”, and “My GOD” means “Ilahi” or “Elahi” which is derived from the word “Allah”.
Mere speculation by Osama, Allah isn't derived from “ILAH” What proof do you have to back this up? What linguistic evidence? None. Even the Quran doesn't use Allah as a common noun for “GOD”. Read these verses:
[15:96] who set up another god ('ilaahan) beside Allah (allaahi)…

[16:51] Allah (allaahu) has proclaimed: “Do not worship two gods ('ilaahayni); there is only one god ('ilaahun)…”
In all the contexts of application of the term allaah, it is used as a proper name. There is not even one example where it was used as a common noun. Meanwhile the term ‘ilaah is the term that was always applied for common nouns. Q.38:5 is a very clear example that shows us that linguistically (lexicon) the two terms are distinct and have separate definitions. Therefore Osama is guilty of lying to his audience, especially since he is an Arabic speaker. Even Muslims say that Allah is never a common word or noun used as “god” or “GOD”.
Muhammad’s Allah: “ALLAH” is not a GOD, by Ahmad Hulusi It is “ALLAH,” not “God!” Yet, it is never a name for a god!…

There is no god to be worshipped, there is only ALLAH! This statement also reveals that: “ALLAH is not a GOD…” Nobody can comprehend what the “Religion of Islam” is about and why it has ever come, unless one fully understood the difference in meaning between a concept of “god” and the name “ALLAH” signified. Due to this, one can keep misinterpreting the matter of religion (Islam)!… I have tried to make it clear that any idea that the word “god” implies is completely different in meaning than the name “ALLAH” implies. These are two different words with completely different meanings… The word “god” is a common adjective, yet “ALLAH” is a proper noun for a unique essence… The original Religion of Islam” in effect is fully based on the meaning implied by the name “ALLAH.”
Koran Interpretation, by Hamdi Yazir of Elmali (Religious Affairs Directory, Vol.1, p.24-25)

WJ

[bodhitharta]

Quote (thethinker @ July 28 2009,11:14)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 28 2009,09:37) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2009,09:07) Hi BD Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2009,16:40) You just proved for yourself That ALLAH is Supreme and UNIQUE having no equal. No I just proved that your claim Jesus mentioned Allahs name is a lie. Now you say that Osama Bin Ladins God is yours! WJ God is the God of all flesh and spirit, He judges those who do evil for what they have don and He judges what is good and right and rewards those who do those things. There are no gods and hence you are correct there is no such word as allahs There is ALLAH and there is no other god besides Him. He is your God and my God so take heed and refrain from arrogance as you don't want to speak against God while being unaware of it, do you? God is not the God of all. If so, then Jesus could never say “Depart from me, I never knew you” (Matthew 25). thinker

God says he is God of All

But you are right how can Jesus say “Depart from me I never knew you” unless….unless…..unless…….. he is not God!

Isaiah 44:23-25 (King James Version)

24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2009,19:13)

Quote (thethinker @ July 28 2009,10:57) bodhitharta said: Quote you should have put in bold writing this part of your quote Islam teaches that other religions have, in one way or another, distorted and nullified a pure and proper belief in Almighty God by neglecting His true teachings and mixing them with man-made ideas. The trinity is such a corruption Jesus is a being that you call God The Father is another being that you call God and the Holy Spirit is a third being that you call God You believe in 3 distinct beings who rule. What a corruption! bd, No corruption occurred. The bold was for emphasis. Corruption would have occurred if I had left out that part of the statement. I was showing Gene that Muslims do not say that Christians (trinitarians)  worship three gods. Btw, did you notice that it says that the Trinity and the incarnation are “Christian” doctrines? In other words, they say your beliefs are true but not “Christian.” thinker I wasn't saying that you corrupted your quote I was saying that your teachings are corrupted The trinity and incarnation are Christian Doctrines in-fact to be more precise they are Catholic doctrines which is why I don't understand why you don't embrace the Catholic Church. I don't think even WJ is a member of The Catholic Church how is it you take their doctrines and deny them?

BD

The Catholics have many doctrines that “True Christianity” embrace, for instance his “death, burial and resurrection”!

Most false religions have some truth, but I haven't found any truth in the Islamic faith!

WJ

[KangarooJack]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2009,11:24)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2009,19:13) Quote (thethinker @ July 28 2009,10:57) bodhitharta said: Quote you should have put in bold writing this part of your quote Islam teaches that other religions have, in one way or another, distorted and nullified a pure and proper belief in Almighty God by neglecting His true teachings and mixing them with man-made ideas. The trinity is such a corruption Jesus is a being that you call God The Father is another being that you call God and the Holy Spirit is a third being that you call God You believe in 3 distinct beings who rule. What a corruption! bd, No corruption occurred. The bold was for emphasis. Corruption would have occurred if I had left out that part of the statement. I was showing Gene that Muslims do not say that Christians (trinitarians)  worship three gods. Btw, did you notice that it says that the Trinity and the incarnation are “Christian” doctrines? In other words, they say your beliefs are true but not “Christian.” thinker I wasn't saying that you corrupted your quote I was saying that your teachings are corrupted The trinity and incarnation are Christian Doctrines in-fact to be more precise they are Catholic doctrines which is why I don't understand why you don't embrace the Catholic Church. I don't think even WJ is a member of The Catholic Church how is it you take their doctrines and deny them? BD The Catholics have many doctrines that “True Christianity” embrace, for instance his “death, burial and resurrection”! Most false religions have some truth, but I haven't found any truth in the Islamic faith! WJ

WJ,
It was a very important admission on bd's part when he said that the incarnation and trinity doctrines are “Christian” doctrines. This means that anti-trinitarian doctrines are NOT Christian.

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
Does reliance on the teachings of Scripture rate lower to you than reliance on man made theology?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2009,11:24)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2009,19:13) Quote (thethinker @ July 28 2009,10:57) bodhitharta said: Quote you should have put in bold writing this part of your quote Islam teaches that other religions have, in one way or another, distorted and nullified a pure and proper belief in Almighty God by neglecting His true teachings and mixing them with man-made ideas. The trinity is such a corruption Jesus is a being that you call God The Father is another being that you call God and the Holy Spirit is a third being that you call God You believe in 3 distinct beings who rule. What a corruption! bd, No corruption occurred. The bold was for emphasis. Corruption would have occurred if I had left out that part of the statement. I was showing Gene that Muslims do not say that Christians (trinitarians)  worship three gods. Btw, did you notice that it says that the Trinity and the incarnation are “Christian” doctrines? In other words, they say your beliefs are true but not “Christian.” thinker I wasn't saying that you corrupted your quote I was saying that your teachings are corrupted The trinity and incarnation are Christian Doctrines in-fact to be more precise they are Catholic doctrines which is why I don't understand why you don't embrace the Catholic Church. I don't think even WJ is a member of The Catholic Church how is it you take their doctrines and deny them? BD The Catholics have many doctrines that “True Christianity” embrace, for instance his “death, burial and resurrection”! Most false religions have some truth, but I haven't found any truth in the Islamic faith! WJ

So are you Catholic? If Not why not?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (thethinker @ July 28 2009,11:44)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2009,11:24) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2009,19:13) Quote (thethinker @ July 28 2009,10:57) bodhitharta said: Quote you should have put in bold writing this part of your quote Islam teaches that other religions have, in one way or another, distorted and nullified a pure and proper belief in Almighty God by neglecting His true teachings and mixing them with man-made ideas. The trinity is such a corruption Jesus is a being that you call God The Father is another being that you call God and the Holy Spirit is a third being that you call God You believe in 3 distinct beings who rule. What a corruption! bd, No corruption occurred. The bold was for emphasis. Corruption would have occurred if I had left out that part of the statement. I was showing Gene that Muslims do not say that Christians (trinitarians)  worship three gods. Btw, did you notice that it says that the Trinity and the incarnation are “Christian” doctrines? In other words, they say your beliefs are true but not “Christian.” thinker I wasn't saying that you corrupted your quote I was saying that your teachings are corrupted The trinity and incarnation are Christian Doctrines in-fact to be more precise they are Catholic doctrines which is why I don't understand why you don't embrace the Catholic Church. I don't think even WJ is a member of The Catholic Church how is it you take their doctrines and deny them? BD The Catholics have many doctrines that “True Christianity” embrace, for instance his “death, burial and resurrection”! Most false religions have some truth, but I haven't found any truth in the Islamic faith! WJ WJ, It was a very important admission on bd's part when he said that the incarnation and trinity doctrines are “Christian” doctrines. This means that anti-trinitarian doctrines are NOT Christian. thinker

They are Catholic Christian Doctrines that is why they call Mary the Mother of God and Queen of Heaven.

WJ and Thinker isn't it true that Mary is The Mother of God according to your belief?

I think Nick and Gene and some others here would say that they believe that Mary is The Mother of Christ Jesus and while having honor in this world and the next is still not the Queen of Heaven.

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