Islam

[Ed J]

Quote (Wakeup @ July 02 2013,15:34)

Quote (Ed J @ July 02 2013,15:08) Come-on Guys, loose all the psychedelic quotes. EDJ. Our conversations Bd and I, would be over the top for you. wakeup.

Hi Wakeup,

I have been reading along, but my scroll finger is getting carpal tunnel.

Ed J

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Wakeup @ July 02 2013,15:04)

Boditharta. All our praises are like filthy raggs before God. Or God would not need to have his son killed. We can not do without him. Without his sacifice the world would not know him, he would be soon just history. And his teachings would be just as some other wise mans teachings. psalms 31 is also about Jesus. wakeup.

This is not referring to Jesus at all:

Psalms 31

9 Have mercy upon me, O Lord, for I am in trouble:
mine eye is consumed with grief, yea, my soul and my belly.
10 For my life is spent with grief, and my years with sighing:
my strength faileth

Quote

because of mine iniquity,

and my bones are consumed

Jesus had no iniquity

Our Praise and obedience is all God asks

Psalm 150
[ Psalm 150 ] Praise ye the Lord. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power. Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness. Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp. Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs. Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals. Let every thing that hath breath praise the Lord. Praise ye the Lord.

[Wakeup]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 02 2013,16:47)

Quote (Wakeup @ July 02 2013,15:04) Boditharta. All our praises are like filthy raggs before God. Or God would not need to have his son killed. We can not do without him. Without his sacifice the world would not know him, he would be soon just history. And his teachings would be just as some other wise mans teachings. psalms 31 is also about Jesus. wakeup. This is not referring to Jesus at all: Psalms 31 9 Have mercy upon me, O Lord, for I am in trouble: mine eye is consumed with grief, yea, my soul and my belly. 10 For my life is spent with grief, and my years with sighing: my strength faileth Quote because of mine iniquity, and my bones are consumed Jesus had no iniquity Our Praise and obedience is all God asks Psalm 150 [ Psalm 150 ] Praise ye the Lord. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power. Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness. Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp. Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs. Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals. Let every thing that hath breath praise the Lord. Praise ye the Lord.

Boditharta.

Jesus carried all the sins of the *world*,but not his own sins.
**
We need; and it is good to praise God.
But not with our lips only.
We need to do what he says.

The cup needs to be clean in the inside as well.
We can not carry hate inside,and go and pray to allah;for this is an abomination to allah.
We can not pray to allah with a gun by our side.

Muslems praise Allah, and are very loud,but at the same time deny the anointed of allah; the mediator.the communicater;the link; the way.
Instead have an other, as mediator;have their own way
paved.

Denying the gift of allah.
Denying the way set by allah.
Instead;following their own way to allah.

And that is not all. They also have changed the day of worship according to their own choice;did God not rested on the seventh day? And the word of God changed into the qur'an.

They also have changed their Holy city; from Jerusalem, to Meccah.
For not, to make it too obvious; they made Jerusalem as the 2nd Holy city.

Muslems dont follow the jewish celebrations,but have their own. They are of a different branch.

Ishmail has chosen his own way to Egypt.

I hope you dont get offended by the truth.

wakeup.

[Wakeup]

Quote (Ed J @ July 02 2013,16:07)

Quote (Wakeup @ July 02 2013,15:34) Quote (Ed J @ July 02 2013,15:08) Come-on Guys, loose all the psychedelic quotes. EDJ. Our conversations Bd and I, would be over the top for you. wakeup. Hi Wakeup, I have been reading along, but my scroll finger is getting carpal tunnel. Ed J

EDJ.

The deep things of God is too much for you.
Stay on the milk,and keep on seeking.

wakeup.

[Ed J]

Quote (Wakeup @ July 02 2013,22:04)

EDJ. The deep things of God is too much for you. Stay on the milk,and keep on seeking. wakeup.

Ha ha, you're funny.

[Wakeup]

Quote (Ed J @ July 02 2013,23:04)

Quote (Wakeup @ July 02 2013,22:04) EDJ. The deep things of God is too much for you. Stay on the milk,and keep on seeking. wakeup. Ha ha, you're funny.

EDJ.

Its not something to laugh about.
You have been on the milk for too long now.
Its time to be weaned from the breast.
Keep on seeking,and ye shall find.

wakeup.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Wakeup @ July 02 2013,21:42)

Quote

Boditharta. Jesus carried all the sins of the *world*,but not his own sins. **

Jesus had not sinned and even if you assume he did he was also baptized.

Quote

We need; and it is good to praise God. But not with our lips only. We need to do what he says.

Exactly!

Quote

The cup needs to be clean in the inside as well. We can not carry hate inside,and go and pray to allah;for this is an abomination to allah.

EXACTLY! unless We are hating mischief makers and those killing us.

Jude 1:23
save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.

Quote

We can not pray to allah with a gun by our side

Actually you can because war happens and we are not told in the Bible or Quran that should allow our selves to die although there is a time for that too

Ecclesiastes 3:8
a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.

Quote

Muslems praise Allah, and are very loud,

Muslims pray very quietly, In a Mosque there is hardly any sound at all. Even whn you see Muslims pray during pilgrimage you will see thousands of people from all over bowing an praying all at the same time in complete peacefulness and very quietly

Quote

but at the same time deny the anointed of allah; the mediator.the communicater;the link; the way.

No, they love and adore the anointed of ALLAH but they realize Jesus was SENT therefore worship is reserved for the SENDER.

For “GOD” so loved the world, did Jesus love the world?

John 17:9
I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

so GOD sent HIS messenger to deliver HIS message

Quote

Instead have an other, as mediator;have their own way paved.

No, in Islam there is no mediator you go to GOD in PEACE. No matter how much you love Jesus, Muhammad or Moses you are to:

Matthew 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Quote

Denying the gift of allah. Denying the way set by allah. Instead;following their own way to allah.

The Muslim is reminded of what Allah has done and denies no gift because they truly understand the entire creation is the gift of ALLAH so which one of those gifts will you deny?

Quote

And that is not all. They also have changed the day of worship according to their own choice;did God not rested on the seventh day? And the word of God changed into the qur'an.

(5) The sabbath was only prescribed for those who differed concerning it, and verily, your Lord will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection about that wherein they used to differ.

( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #124)

Hosea 2:11
I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts

And indeed you knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the sabbath (i.e. Saturday). We said to them: “Be you monkeys, despised and rejected.”

( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #65)

Quote

They also have changed their Holy city; from Jerusalem, to Meccah. For not, to make it too obvious; they made Jerusalem as the 2nd Holy city.

The fools among the people (pagans, hypocrites, and jews) will say, “What has turned them (Muslims) from their Qiblah [prayer direction (towards Jerusalem)] to which they used to face in prayer.” Say, (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) “To Allah belong both, east and the west. He guides whom He wills to the Straight Way.”

( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #142)

Verily! We have seen the turning of your (Muhammad's صلى الله عليه وسلم) face towards the heaven. Surely, We shall turn you to a Qiblah (prayer direction) that shall please you, so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid-al-Haram (at Makkah). And wheresoever you people are, turn your faces (in prayer) in that direction. Certainly, the people who were given the Scripture (i.e. jews and the Christians) know well that, that (your turning towards the direction of the Ka'bah at Makkah in prayers) is the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do.

( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #144)

And even if you were to bring to the people of the Scripture (jews and Christians) all the Ayat (proofs, evidence, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), they would not follow your Qiblah (prayer direction), nor are you going to follow their Qiblah (prayer direction). And they will not follow each other's Qiblah (prayer direction). Verily, if you follow their desires after that which you have received of knowledge (from Allah), then indeed you will be one of the Zalimun (polytheists, wrong-doers).

( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #145)

He it is Who raised among the inhabitants of mecca an Apostle from among themselves, who recites to them His communications and purifies them, and teaches them the Book and
the Wisdom, although they were before certainly in clear error,

( سورة الجمعة , Al-Jumua, Chapter #62, Verse #2)

Quote

Muslems dont follow the jewish celebrations,but have their own. They are of a different branch.

The are “Jewish” celebrations just as Christians have different celebrations

Quote

Ishmail has chosen his own way to Egypt.

I'm not sure what you mean here but God said in Genesis tha he was with Ishmael

Quote

I hope you dont get offended by the truth.

Not at all, but please do me a favor and allow yourself to honestly look at my responses an agree or accept what you find understandable or correct

Say: “O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do you criticize us for no other reason than that we believe in Allah, and in (the revelation) which has been sent down to us and in that which has been sent down before (us), and that most of you are Fasiqun [rebellious and disobedient (to Allah)]?”

( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #59)

Isaiah 1:18
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

God Bless! I do appreciate you going deeper with this rather than attacking without any study.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Wakeup @ July 02 2013,21:42)

The sabbath was only prescribed for those who differed concerning it, and verily, your Lord will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection about that wherein they used to differ.

( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #124)

Exodus 16
27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none. 28 And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? 29 See, for that the Lord hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day. 30 So the people rested on the seventh day. 31 And the house of Israel called the name thereof Manna: and it was like coriander seed, white; and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 03 2013,11:05)

Wakeup,July wrote: [/quote] The sabbath was only prescribed for those who differed concerning it, and verily, your Lord will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection about that wherein they used to differ. (  سورة النحل  , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #124) Exodus 16 27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none. 28 And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? 29 See, for that the Lord hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day. 30 So the people rested on the seventh day. 31 And the house of Israel called the name thereof Manna: and it was like coriander seed, white; and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey.

Before this time the Sabbath was not kept as a Law as Jesus said:

Mark 2:27
And he said to them, “The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath;

[Ed J]

Quote (Wakeup @ July 02 2013,22:04)

Quote (Ed J @ July 02 2013,16:07) Quote (Wakeup @ July 02 2013,15:34) Quote (Ed J @ July 02 2013,15:08) Come-on Guys, loose all the psychedelic quotes. EDJ. Our conversations Bd and I, would be over the top for you. wakeup. Hi Wakeup, I have been reading along, but my scroll finger is getting carpal tunnel. Ed J EDJ. The deep things of God is too much for you. Stay on the milk,and keep on seeking. wakeup.

So which is it that you have been discussing with BD, meat or milk?

Quote (Wakeup @ July 03 2013,16:11)

Boditharta. So far we have been sharing the milk. we need to share the solid food also. And that means all the prophesies. wakeup.

You say one thing in this thread and something else in another; a bit confused are we?  

Ed J

[Wakeup]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 03 2013,11:05)

Wakeup,July wrote: [/quote] The sabbath was only prescribed for those who differed concerning it, and verily, your Lord will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection about that wherein they used to differ. (  سورة النحل  , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #124) Exodus 16 27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none. 28 And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? 29 See, for that the Lord hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day. 30 So the people rested on the seventh day. 31 And the house of Israel called the name thereof Manna: and it was like coriander seed, white; and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey.

Boditharta.

Quote
Boditharta.

Jesus carried all the sins of the *world*,but not his own sins.

QUOTE: **
Jesus had not sinned and even if you assume he did he was also baptized.UNQUOTE:
JESUS WAS GIVEN A CROWN OF THORNS.(THORNS SYMBOLISES SIN IN THE BIBLE).THEY PUT IT ON HIS HEAD.

Quote
We need; and it is good to praise God.
But not with our lips only.
We need to do what he says.

Exactly!(YOU AGREE).

Quote
The cup needs to be clean in the inside as well.
We can not carry hate inside,and go and pray to allah;for this is an abomination to allah.UNQUOTE:

EXACTLY! unless We are hating mischief makers and those killing us. (YOU AGREE).

QUOTE:
Jude 1:23
save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.UNQUOTE:

I AGREE.

**We can not pray to allah with a gun by our side,BUT HAVE OUR SHOES OFF**.

QUOTE:
Actually you can because war happens and we are not told in the Bible or Quran that should allow our selves to die although there is a time for that too.UNQUOTE:
Ecclesiastes 3:8
a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.UNQUOTE:

**JESUS SAID; IF YOU PRAY;GO AND MAKE PEACE WITH YOUR BROTHER FIRST,AND THEN PRAY.
IN WAR TIME;WE STOP AND PRAY**.

**Muslems praise Allah, and are very loud**,

QUOTE:
Muslims pray very quietly, In a Mosque there is hardly any sound at all. Even whn you see Muslims pray during pilgrimage you will see thousands of people from all over bowing an praying all at the same time in complete peacefulness and very quietly.UNQUOTE.

**FAIR ENOUGH;BUT THEY ALSO DO IT FOR EVERYONE TO SEE.LIKE THE PHARISEES DO,STANDING ON THE CORNER OF THE SREET TO BE SEEN**.

**but at the same time deny the anointed of allah; the mediator.the communicater;the link; the way.**

QUOTE:
No, they love and adore the anointed of ALLAH but they realize Jesus was SENT therefore worship is reserved for the SENDER.
For “GOD” so loved the world, did Jesus love the world?
John 17:9
I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
so GOD sent HIS messenger to deliver HIS message.UNQUOTE:

**GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD;*THIS TO US IS JUST EMPTY WORDS*; UNTILL HE GAVE HIS ONLY SON;THEN WE KNOW THAT HE REALLY LOVED US.
AND JESUS LOVE THEM,WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN THEM TO HIM.FOR NO ONE CAN COME TO JESUS UNLESS THE FATHER DRAWS HIM**. GOD HAS CHOSEN THEM BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.

**Instead have an other, as mediator;have their own way paved**.

QUOTE:
No, in Islam there is no mediator you go to GOD in PEACE. No matter how much you love Jesus, Muhammad or Moses you are to:UNQUOTE:

**HERE IS ONE OF MANY CONTRADICTIONS TO WHAT THE HOLY BIBLE SAYS: SO IT IS UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL TO CHOSE BETWEEN THE TWO STATEMENTS**
.
QUOTE:
Matthew 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.UNQUOTE:

THAT MEANS THAT WE MUST PUT GOD BEFORE RELIGION,OR ANYTHING ELSE**.

*Denying the gift of allah.
Denying the way set by allah.
Instead;following their own way to allah*.

QUOTE:
The Muslim is reminded of what Allah has done and denies no gift because they truly understand the entire creation is the gift of ALLAH so which one of those gifts will you deny?
UNQUOTE:

WE MUST NOT DENY ANY GIFT FROM GOD.
EVERY MORNING WE WAKE UP ALIVE IS ANOTHER GIFT.
BUT HIS GREATEST GIFT IS HIS SON THAT DIED FOR US.
FOR THAT IS LIFE EVERLASTING.

*And that is not all. They also have changed the day of worship according to their own choice;did God not rested on the seventh day? And the word of God changed into the qur'an*.

QUOTE:
(5) The sabbath was only prescribed for those who differed concerning it, and verily, your Lord will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection about that wherein they used to differ.
( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #124)UNQUOTE:

*YOU SHALL KEEP THE SABATH DAY HOLY;
WE NEED TO KEEP IT HOLY,BY DOING GOOD AND WORSHIP ON A SABATH DAY.THE SABATH IS MADE FOR MAN.
DOES NOT GIVE US THE AUTHORITY TO CHANGE IT*.

QUOTE:
Hosea 2:11
I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.
UNQUOTE:

**THAT SCRIPTURE IS WRONGLY APPLIED TO.
ALL HER CELEBRATION WILL CEASE WHEN THE LORD WILL COME TO PUNISH THEM**.

QUOTE:
And indeed you knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the sabbath (i.e. Saturday). We said to them: “Be you monkeys, despised and rejected.”
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #65).UNQUOTE:

WHO HAS REPLACED SATURDAY TO FRIDAY?

**They also have changed their Holy city; from Jerusalem, to Meccah.
For not, to make it too obvious; they made Jerusalem as the 2nd Holy city**.

QUOTE:
The fools among the people (pagans, hypocrites, and jews) will say, “What has turned them (Muslims) from their Qiblah [prayer direction (towards Jerusalem)] to which they used to face in prayer.” Say, (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) “To Allah belong both, east and the west. He guides whom He wills to the Straight Way.UNQUOTE:

**GOD DOES NOT CHANGE HIS MIND,BY CHANGING HIS HOLY CITY JERUSALEM TO MECCAH.INDEED ALL BELONG TO GOD;BUT THAT DOES NOT GIVE US THE RIGHT TO CHANGE HIS HOLY DAY AND HIS HOLY CITY,NOR ANYTHING
FOR DOCTRINE SAKE**.

QUOTE:
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #142)
Verily! We have seen the turning of your (Muhammad's صلى الله عليه وسلم) face towards the heaven. Surely, We shall turn you to a Qiblah (prayer direction) that shall please you, so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid-al-Haram (at Makkah). And wheresoever you people are, turn your faces (in prayer) in that direction. Certainly, the people who were given the Scripture (i.e. jews and the Christians) know well that, that (your turning towards the direction of the Ka'bah at Makkah in prayers) is the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do.UNQUOTE:

**THAT IS IN THE QUR'AN. GOD DOES NOT CHANGE HIS
WAYS NO MATTER WHAT ANYON
E SAYS.
JERUSALEM IS THE CITY CALLED BY GODS NAME.
JER.25:29. –I BEGIN TO BRING EVIL ON THE CITY WHICH *IS CALLED BY MY NAME*—
MECCAH IS NOT CALLED BY GODS NAME**.

QUOTE:
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #144)
And even if you were to bring to the people of the Scripture (jews and Christians) all the Ayat (proofs, evidence, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), they would not follow your Qiblah (prayer direction), nor are you going to follow their Qiblah (prayer direction). And they will not follow each other's Qiblah (prayer direction). Verily, if you follow their desires after that which you have received of knowledge (from Allah), then indeed you will be one of the Zalimun (polytheists, wrong-doers).UNQUOTE:

**THOSE WERE NOT GODS WORDS,NOR RULES; CHRISTIANS PRAY IN ANY DIRECTION. JESUS DID NOT PRAY FACING MECCAH EITHER.
MUSLEMS HAVE GIVEN THEIR FOLLOWERS RULES TO PRAY FACING THEIR CITY MECCAH;SEPERATING THEMSELVES FROM HOLY JERUSALEM**.

QUOTE:
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #14
He it is Who raised among the inhabitants of mecca an Apostle from among themselves, who recites to them His communications and purifies them, and teaches them the Book and the Wisdom, although they were before certainly in clear error, UNQUOTE:

** THERE IS NO MECCAH MENTIONED EVER IN THE BIBLE.
THIS IS ONLY WRITTEN IN THE QUR'AN,OF WHICH IS A STRANGER TO GOD*.

( سورة الجمعة , Al-Jumua, Chapter #62, Verse #2)

*Muslems dont follow the jewish celebrations,but have their own. They are of a different branch*.

QUOTE:
The are “Jewish” celebrations just as Christians have different celebrations.UNQUOTE:

**CHRISTIANS CELBRATE PASCAH,THE PASSOVER.
JESUS TOLD US TO REMEMBR HIS DEATH AND RESURRECTION. CHRISTMAS IS NOT REALLY A CHRISTIAN CELEBRATION,THIS IS BABYLON**.

*Ishmail has chosen his own way to Egypt*.

**HAGAR WAS AN EGYPTIAN WOMAN;SHE WAS SEND AWAY;AND THEREFORE WENT BACK TO EGYPT.
ISHMAIL MUST HAVE MARRIED AN EGYPTIAN.
THE ONES THAT BOUGHT JOSEPH, THE SON OF JACOB, WERE ISHMALITES. THE TRIBE OF ISHMAIL.
HE DOES NOT BELONG TO THE 12TRIBES OF ISRAEL**.

QUOTE:
I'm not sure what you mean here but God said in Genesis tha he was with IshmaelUNQUOTE:

*SEE ABOVE*:GOD HAS BLESSED ISHMAIL WITH 12 PRINCE'S'.

*I hope you dont get offended by the truth*.

QUOTE:
Not at all, but please do me a favor and allow yourself to honestly look at my responses an agree or accept what you find understandable or correct.

*SURE.*

QUOTE:
Say: “O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do you criticize us for no other reason than that we believe in Allah, and in (the revelation) which has been sent down to us and in that which has been sent down before (us), and that most of you are Fasiqun [rebellious and disobedient (to Allah)]?” UNQUOTE:

**I CAN SEE THAT THE MUSLEMS HAVE SEPERATED THEMSELVES FROM THE SCRIPTURES,BY CALLING CHRISTIANS PEOPLE OF THE SCRIPTURES.
THIS MEANS THAT THERE IS NO CONNECTION BETWEEN THE BIBLE AND THE QUR'AN. ITS OF A DIFFERENT SPIRIT**.

QUOTE:
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #59)
Isaiah 1:18
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.UNQUOTE:

**WE REASON WITH GOD BY FOLLOWING HIS WAYS,HIS DIRECTION,HIS WILL**.

QUOTE:
God Bless! I do appreciate you going deeper with this rather than attacking without any study.UNQUOTE:

**IT WOULD BE A WASTE OF TIME ATTACKING EACH OTHER.THERE CAN BE NO FRUITS.
THERE ARE MANY BELIEVES,BUT ONLY ONE TRUTH**.
THE TRUE HEART WILL MAKE THE DECISION.

wakeup.

[bodhitharta]

We should narrow down our agument because we believe in much the same things.

The man issues with you are, it seem you take the phrase “son of God” literally
and that Jesus had to be crucified f you to be forgiven

We should focus on those main issues.

Why is it important that Jesus be the literal “son of God” and why does God need to offer anyone aything in order to forgive HIS OWN CREATION?

[Wakeup]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 04 2013,15:17)

We should narrow down our agument because we believe in much the same things. The man issues with you are, it seem you take the phrase “son of God” literally and that Jesus had to be crucified f you to be forgiven We should focus on those main issues. Why is it important that Jesus be the literal “son of God” and why does God need to offer anyone aything in order to forgive HIS OWN CREATION?

Boditharta;and anyone in the muslem faith.

Musems believe that Jesus did not die ,but someone else took his place. jesus was taken up to heaven.
**this is what the qur'an says**.

But this is not what **the word of God says**,as you have read it in psalms,how his hands were pearced.
*You can make your choice*, which of the two is telling the truth;for both can not be true.*One of the two is telling a lie*.Which one is it, according to your conscience.

NO ONE CAN MAKE THE CHOICE, FOR AN OTHER PERSON.

Jesus followed his Father even to death,now God has given him a *LARGE bank account*,so that anyone with great debts, can come to him for help, with a sincere heart. He will write them a cheque, so their bets can be paid in full.
But try hard not to make anymore foolish debts.

Now why is it so;you ask; well this is how God has worked it out for us. What are we; to question God? Why did he do it that way? Have we got a better way? Do we have more wisdom than our creator?
****

Jesus the only begotten Son of God was send
to earth to teach; and to *transfer* all our debts *on his name*.
He obeyed his father to his last breath.
His father has *rewarded him* with a very large bank account.
Now he can pay all our debts,if we come to him for help.
To pay our debts.

No one has the abillity to pay off his own debt;for it is too great. We need to come to him,to write us that cheque.

Anyone that refuses to come to him,is free to make that choice.

wakeup.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Wakeup @ July 04 2013,19:06)

Boditharta;and anyone in the muslem faith.

Musems believe that Jesus did not die ,but someone else took his place. jesus was taken up to heaven.
**this is what the qur'an says**.

Yes, God saved Jesus from being KILLED from being CRUCIFIED

But this is not what **the word of God says**,as you have read it in psalms,how his hands were pearced.
*You can make your choice*, which of the two is telling the truth;for both can not be true.*One of the two is telling a lie*.Which one is it, according to your conscience.

A revelation is not a lie otherwise Paul would have been lying when he explained to the disciples that the gospel was o be preached to the gentiles after Jesus told them “Go not unto the gentiles”

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NO ONE CAN MAKE THE CHOICE, FOR AN OTHER PERSON.

Exactly!

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Jesus followed his Father even to death,now God has given him a *LARGE bank account*,so that anyone with great debts, can come to him for help, with a sincere heart. He will write them a cheque, so their bets can be paid in full. But try hard not to make anymore foolish debts.

No disagreement there.

[Mention] when Allah said, “O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you [in submission to Allah alone] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ.

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Now why is it so;you ask; well this is how God has worked it out for us. What are we; to question God? Why did he do it that way? Have we got a better way? Do we have more wisdom than our creator? ****

There are several problems with your reasoning

1. Jesus was betrayed

If it was his plan to be sacrificed it would not be betrayal

2. Jesus did not teach them that he was a sacrifice

They sought to KILL him not offer him up as a sacrifice to God

3. Jesus said God wants MERCY and NOT SACRIFICE

But you believe God needed Sacrifice. The Muslim believes that God wanted MERCY and His will was done.

Surah 3

54 And they (disbelievers) plotted to kill 'Îsa [(Jesus) عليه السلام], and Allah plotted too. And Allah is the Best of those who plot.

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Jesus the only begotten Son of God was send to earth to teach; and to *transfer* all our debts *on his name*.

That was not his mission:

John 17:4
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

If his work was finished before they caught and Crucified him then how could hismude be a part of that work.

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He obeyed his father to his last breath. His father has *rewarded him* with a very large bank account. Now he can pay all our debts,if we come to him for help. To pay our debts.

This can be true regardless of the cross because his obedience is what he was rewarded for not being KILLED

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No one has the abillity to pay off his own debt;for it is too great. We need to come to him,to write us that cheque.

Makes no sense OUR REWARD also comes through obedience to GOD it has ALWAYS been this way.

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Anyone that refuses to come to him,is free to make that choice.

No one needs to refuse to come to Christ because GOING to GOD requires acceptance of ALL his PROPHETS and even HIS angels.

Now show me where God says he needs to SACRIFICE HIS son:

[Wakeup]

Boditharta.

You have made your choice in favour of what the qur'an
says;that jesus was not cricified.And believe that the qur'an is telling the truth.
**Therefore the word of God is telling a lie**.

***Jesus *Must be lifted* up on the cross,just as the serpent was lifted up on Moses staff***.

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, ***WEN YE*** *have lifted up* the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

John 12:32 ***And I, if I be lifted up*** from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

John 12:34 The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ *abideth for ever*: and how sayest thou, ***The Son of man **must be lifted up**? who is this son of man?

wakeup.

[journey42]

bodhitharta,July wrote:

[/quote]

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Now show me where God says he needs to SACRIFICE HIS son:

Hebrews 10:4   For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins
Hebrews 10:5   Wherefore when he comes into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me.
Hebrews 10:6   In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou has had no pleasure.
Hebrews 10:7   Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me to do thy will, O God)
Hebrews 10:9   Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God.  He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Hebrews 10:10   By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ one for all.

2 Timothy 3:16   All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Peter 1:20   Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

1 Corinthians 15:3   For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1 Corinthians 15:4   And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

[bodhitharta]

Quote (journey42 @ July 05 2013,15:46)

bodhitharta,July wrote: [/quote] Quote Now show me where God says he needs to SACRIFICE HIS son: Hebrews 10:4   For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins Hebrews 10:5   Wherefore when he comes into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me. Hebrews 10:6   In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou has had no pleasure. Hebrews 10:7   Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me to do thy will, O God) Hebrews 10:9   Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God.  He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. Hebrews 10:10   By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ one for all. 2 Timothy 3:16   All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Peter 1:20   Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 1 Corinthians 15:3   For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 1 Corinthians 15:4   And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Hebrews 10:5 is a misquote of Psalms 40:6

Psalm 40:6

King James Version (KJV)

6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

then Paul takes the misquote and applies it:

Hebrews 10:3-12

Revised Standard Version (RSV)

3 But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sin year after year. 4 For it is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins.

5 Consequently, when Christ[a] came into the world, he said,

“Sacrifices and offerings thou hast not desired,
but a body hast thou prepared for me;
6 in burnt offerings and sin offerings thou hast taken no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Lo, I have come to do thy will, O God,’
as it is written of me in the roll of the book.”

8 When he said above, “Thou hast neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9 then he added, “Lo, I have come to do thy will.” He abolishes the first in order to establish the second. 10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

But we know that Jesus actually said:

Matthew 12:7
And if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless.

and we also know Jesus said:

Matthew 9:13
Go and learn what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”

and we know God said:

Hosea 6:6
For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice, the knowledge of God, rather than burnt offerings.

So the actual psalm is correct 40:6

Psalm 40:6

King James Version (KJV)

6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

I also asked that you show me scripture where God says HE needs to sacrifice HIS son you did not show me that at all

[Wakeup]

Boditharta.

Abel sacrificed to the Lord and was accepted.
Noah sacrificed to the Lord ,and was accepted.

But the Lord did not ordered them to sacrifice.
God does not need sacrifices,but obdience.
The jews sacrifice; but dont obey. God rather have them obey than sacrifice.

Since man dont obey,they sacrifice instead,but not accepted because of disobedience.
Man *can not* keep the law of righteousnes,therefore need sacrifice. Therefore God provided the sacrcifice.

IF MAN COULD HAVE TOTAL OBEDIENCE,THERE WOULD NO NEED FOR SACRIFICE.
SINCE BREAKING ONE LAW,MAKES US GUILTY OF ALL;
THEREFORE MAN CAN NOT COME TO GOD. ITS IMPOSIBLE.

Because total obedience is not possible.
No matter how loud our praises,and how much we glorify
God. It wont be enough to pay for the ticket to heaven,and everlasting life.

What are our praises worth? Compared to everlasting life?
Can all our praises be worth everlasting life?

Everlasting life can only be obtained by the mercy of God.

After the pure sacrifice was done;God WILL give us mercy.

The fact is;that you have refuted the witness of twelve men that have been with Jesus. Lived with him, ate and drunk with him.

Instead have accepted the witness of one man that lived 630 years after Christ,and have never seen Jesus;for the sake of your religion.

Practically, which of the two would be more reliable?
The twelve,that have seen Jesus, or the one that lived 630years after Jesus?

wakeup.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Wakeup @ July 05 2013,21:16)

Boditharta. Abel sacrificed to the Lord and was accepted. Noah sacrificed to the Lord ,and was accepted. But the Lord did not ordered them to sacrifice. God does not need sacrifices,but obdience. The jews sacrifice; but dont obey. God rather have them obey than sacrifice. Since man dont obey,they sacrifice instead,but not accepted because of disobedience. Man *can not* keep the law of righteousnes,therefore need sacrifice. Therefore God provided the sacrcifice. IF MAN COULD HAVE TOTAL OBEDIENCE,THERE WOULD NO NEED FOR SACRIFICE. SINCE BREAKING ONE LAW,MAKES US GUILTY OF ALL; THEREFORE MAN CAN NOT COME TO GOD. ITS IMPOSIBLE. Because total obedience is not possible. No matter how loud our praises,and how much we glorify God. It wont be enough to pay for the ticket to heaven,and everlasting life. What are our praises worth? Compared to everlasting life? Can all our praises be worth everlasting life? Everlasting life can only be obtained by the mercy of God. After the pure sacrifice was done;God WILL give us mercy. The fact is;that you have refuted the witness of twelve men that have been with Jesus. Lived with him, ate and drunk with him. Instead have accepted the witness of one man that lived 630 years after Christ,and have never seen Jesus;for the sake of your religion. Practically, which of the two would be more reliable? The twelve,that have seen Jesus, or the one that lived 630years after Jesus? wakeup.

Muhammad didn't write the Quran it was recited to him by Gabriel who sends down the message from God.

Most of the NT is written by Paul who never met Jesus the 4 Gospels are written according to the author and they don't start their witness accounts by saying God told them what to write it is written according to them, many disciples that wrote their accounts didn't have the honor to even be included in the collection such as the Gospel of Thomas and others.

I actually do believe their testimony is an honest account but that doesn't make it factual. You can see how often the information varies in the 4 gospels som even leave out th birth of Jesus being by Miracle adPaul never mentions it at all calling Christ “The seed” of David according to the flesh, which is impossible.

You are right salvation comes from the Mercy and Grace of God.

God does not EVER indicate that he needs a pure human sacrifice or the sacrifice of HIS own son in fact it would go against God's very own law since Mary was virgin nd Jesus was her firstborn he was not even supposed to be a priest for the firstborn are never taken as priests(levitical) because it would be a great Sacrifice to the parents.

Numbers 3:12
And I, behold, I have taken the Levites from among the children of Israel instead of all the firstborn that openeth the matrix among the children of Israel: therefore the Levites shall be mine;

Numbers 18:15
Every thing that openeth the matrix in all flesh, which they bring unto the Lord, whether it be of men or beasts, shall be thine: nevertheless the firstborn of man shalt thou surely redeem, and the firstling of unclean beasts shalt thou redeem.

Exodus 34:19-23

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

19 All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male. 20 But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.

Now as far as Salvation it does not by being perfect but by accepting the guidance of God in submisson and that is PERFECTION itself.

Luke 18:17-19

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

So no I don't refute their testimony at all I just have been given more evidence in the case and have weighed it objectively.

and yes our praises and gratefullness are worth etenal life since this is what God wanted for people to know who Created them and appreciate what he created for them

Therefore remember Me (by praying, glorifying), I will remember you, and be grateful to Me (for My countless Favours on you) and never be ungrateful to Me.

( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #152)

But if We let him taste good (favour) after evil (poverty and harm) has touched him, he is sure to say: “Ills have departed from me.” Surely, he is exultant, and boastful (ungrateful to Allah).

( سورة هود , Hud, Chapter #11, Verse #10)

So (as a result of that) they deny (with ungratefulness) that (Allah's Favours) which We have bestowed on them! Then enjoy yourselves (your short stay), but you will come to know (with regrets).

( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #55)

[Wakeup]

Boditharta.

I'll make my answers short to save time and space.
******************

Muhammad didn't write the Quran it was recited to him by Gabriel who sends down the message from God.UNQUOTE:

——————————————————————*wakeups reply*: BUT AGAIN;THAT IS WHAT THE QUR'AN SAYS.MUSLEM HAVE TO PROOF THAT THE ANGEL IS INDEED GABRÍ'EL. JOSEPH SMITH ALSO CLAIMED THAT HE SPOKE TO GOD, AND JESUS.
——————————————————————

Most of the NT is written by Paul who never met Jesus the 4 Gospels are written according to the author and they don't start their witness accounts by saying God told them what to write it is written according to them, many disciples that wrote their accounts didn't have the honor to even be included in the collection such as the Gospel of Thomas and others.UNQUOTE:

—————————————————————-
*wakeups reply*:NOT TRUE: PAUL WAS THE ONE THAT IS LEADING THE PERSECUSION OF THE FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST; HE KNEW CHRIST: AND CHRIST SPOKE TO HIM ON HIS WAY TO DAMASCUS.
“'SAUL,SAUL,WHY PERSECUTEST THOU ME?
—————————————————————-

I actually do believe their testimony is an honest account but that doesn't make it factual. You can see how often the information varies in the 4 gospels som even leave out th birth of Jesus being by Miracle adPaul never mentions it at all calling Christ “The seed” of David according to the flesh, which is impossible.UNQUOT:

—————————————————————–*wakeups answer*:IF ALL FOUR GOSPELS WERE WRITTEN EXACTLY THE SAME; THAT WOULD MEAN THAT THEY HAVE *COPIED* ONE ANOTHERS STATEMENT.
ONE STORY;TOLD BY THREE WITNESSES;EVERYONE HAVE THEIR OWN STYLE OF WRITING.
——————————————————————

You are right salvation comes from the Mercy and Grace of God.
God does not EVER indicate that he needs a pure human sacrifice or the sacrifice of HIS own son in fact it would go against God's very own law since Mary was virgin nd Jesus was her firstborn he was not even supposed to be a priest for the firstborn are never taken as priests(levitical) because it would be a great Sacrifice to the parents.UNQUOTE:

——————————————————————
*wakeups answer*: HERE AGAIN;THAT IS WHAT THE QUR'AN SAYS;AND YOU HAVE ACCEPTED THAT AS TRUTH. RATHER THAN THE SCRIPTURES.
THAT INDICATES YOUR ATTITUDE TOWARD THE BIBLE.
——————————————————————

Numbers 3:12
And I, behold, I have taken the Levites from among the children of Israel instead of all the firstborn that openeth the matrix among the children of Israel: therefore the Levites shall be mine;UNQUOTE:

——————————————————————
*wakeups answer*:MISUNDERSTANDING ON YOUR PART; AARON WAS AN OLDER BROTHER OF MOSES.
GOD SPOPKE OF LEVITES AS *PLURAL*; *THE TRIBE*.
THEY ARE NOT THE FIRST BORN;BUT EPRHAIM IS THE FIRST BORN.(EPHRAIM,IS MY FIRST BORN).BUT GOD TOOK THE TRIBE OF LEVI AS PRIEST INSTEAD.
BUT NOW IS REPLACED BY THE TRIBE OF JUDAH.
——————————————————————

Numbers 18:15
Every thing that openeth the matrix in all flesh, which they bring unto the Lord, whether it be of men or beasts, shall be thine: nevertheless the firstborn of man shalt thou surely redeem, and the firstling of unclean beasts shalt thou redeem.
Exodus 34:19-2
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

19 All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male. 20 But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.UNQUOTE:

—————————————————————-
*wakeups answer*:NOT APPLICABLE:
——————————————————————

Now as far as Salvation it does not by being perfect but by accepting the guidance of God in submisson and that is PERFECTION itself.UNQUOTE:

——————————————————————
*wakeups answer*:HOW MUCH OBEDIENCE CAN YOU GIVE,TO EARN THAT TICKET TO EVERLSTING LIFE? I MEAN TOTAL;UNBLEMISHED OBEDIENCE. PURE AND WHITE,WITHOUT SPOT. HOW MUCH IS THAT TICKET WORTH? CAN ANYONE PAY FOR IT,BY MUCH PRAYING?
ARE WE THAT *RICH* IN PURITY?
—————————————————————–

Luke 18:17-19
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.UNQUOTE:

—————————————————————–
*wakeups answer*: I HAVE NOTICED THAT YOU HAVE NOT RECEIVED IT AS A CHILD;BUT HAVE BEEN VERY
RESISTANT TO MOST OF THE DOCTRINES.
——————————————————————

18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
So no I don't refute their testimony at all I just have been given more evidence in the case and have weighed it objectively.UNQUOT:

——————————————————————
*wakeups answer*: YOU SAY YOU DONT REFUTE ,BUT THATS NOT WHAT I HAVE EXPERIENCED.
YOU HAVE WEIGHED IT; AND FOUND MORE INFO IN THE QUR'AN; AND HAVE FOUND THE BIBLE WANTING.
THIS IS NOT RECEIVING THE KINGDOM AS A CHILD.
—————————————————————–

and yes our praises and gratefullness are worth etenal life since this is what God wanted for people to know who Created them and appreciate what he created for them
Therefore remember Me (by praying, glorifying), I will remember you, and be grateful to Me (for My countless Favours on you) and never be ungrateful to Me.

( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #152)

But if We let him taste good (favour) after evil (poverty and harm) has touched him, he is sure to say: “Ills have departed from me.” Surely, he is exultant, and boastful (ungrateful to Allah).

( سورة هود , Hud, Chapter #11, Verse #10)
So (as a result of that) they deny (with ungratefulness) that (Allah's Favours) which We have bestowed on them! Then enjoy yourselves (your short stay), but you will come to know (with regrets).

( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #55)

——————————————————————
*wakeups answer*: TELL ME: HOW MUCH PRAISE AND BOWING DOWN AND PRAYER,**IS EQUAL** TO THE PRICE OF EVERLASTING LIFE? DO YOU KNOW?
—————————————————————–

wakeup.

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