- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (shimmer @ Sep. 15 2010,22:16) Stuart, you like to ask hard questions, I believe that if you seek the truth it will be revealed, if you pray and ask it will eventualy be shown. Many Muslims have done this and have become Christians.
I believe truth is within, I also believe debating over doctrines is pointless, I believe that true religeon is loving and caring for others, something which is felt from within the heart, Jesus came for the lost and for the sinners,
But this is simply your own take. Others believe that Jesus is part of a god system that really punishes unrepentant sinners with fire.“The truth” is your own personal interpretation of the facts, a list of things that are “true”. Some believe that is revealed, while others construct their own “truth” based on their observations of the world.
Does prayer answer the question of whether this “divine revelation” is real or all in the imagination? Is it that a direct, clear voice is heard in the head in response to prayer, which gives unambiguous information?
Or is it as I have observed that believers look for “signs”, and do a tarot card-style interpretation of daily events which amounts to them deciding what it is that god is telling them? I'm sure some make a personal decision then attribute it to a command from their god, as if to lend it some authority.
I agree with you that it is a sound principle to love and care for others. Christianity gives some believers an excuse not to be particularly caring or loving toward others; non-believers don't have that excuse!
Stuart
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 16 2010,03:18) Do you think Stu is some cold stone? he doesn't even eat meat so it's more than just fuzzy feelings.
I don't like the taste or texture of meat. I don't mind if others slaughter things to feed on. I murder carrots.Stuart
Stuart, I think we can make anything from anything, even an athiest can turn into something awfull, as can the Christian. The Christian gives a bad name to Christianity, the Athiest gives a bad name to….I don't know !
Speaking of vegetarians, vegetarians are healthier they say, I heard somewhere that vegetarians are less violent or agressive as well,
Yes I am not accusing every christian of being anything in particular, but there are many christians who end up doing pretty unpleasant things because they feel motivated by their religious beliefs. It is very rare for an atheist to be inspired to do harm because he believes there is no such thing as gods. The physicist Steven Weinberg summarised it like this:
“With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil — that takes religion.”
Elsewhere he says:
“Many people do simply awful things out of sincere religious belief, not using religion as a cover the way that Saddam Hussein may have done, but really because they believe that this is what God wants them to do, going all the way back to Abraham being willing to sacrifice Issac because God told him to do that. Putting God ahead of humanity is a terrible thing.”
Stuart
Quote (shimmer @ Sep. 16 2010,10:21) Quote You said that you believe true religion is loving and caring for others, so only Christians can do that?
OF COURSE NOT, anyone can, but eternal life is something else and only true Christians can spread the message, in truth, to reach out to those ones,Quote Do you think Stu is some cold stone? he doesn't even eat meat so it's more than just fuzzy feelings .
Who said that ? Definatly not me. (Why do you pull people into thing's just to try and prove a point, your good at that) ?
Stuart (as I said) is a genuine one I believe, searching, and being a vegetarian is wonderful.Quote P.S. Many Christians have become Muslims as well was God tricking them into it?
They have turned their back on what they knew, which could have given them eternal life in a wondeful place where there is no more sadness, suffering or hurt, something we have never seen, they chose to believe a deception instead, a man who said otherwise, yes, they were tricked.Quote I am telling you as long as people keep talking about there being multiple gods it will be very difficult for some to increase their faith at all. There is Only ONE GOD, Hallowed be Thy Name. There can be a million different understandings of God but those are not a million gods “There is no other God except one; for even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven, whether upon earth — as there are gods many and lords many — yet to us is one God, the Father, of whom are the all things, and we to Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are the all things, and we through Him;”…1st corinthians 8
How is it you say that God was seperated from Adam and God was right there with Adam's family teaching his children? Adam did not die at all after he ate from the tree you read the punishment and he did not die that day obviously God forgave Adam and had Mercy he lived for hundreds of years afterwards
and not only that how do you suppose that Enoch was ever seperated from God? He was with God his whole life until God took him and there was no mention of Enoch sinning or being seperated from God if what you say was correct then all would have been seperated from God but regarding Enoch:And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.
Genesis 5:23-25Enoch was Cain's son but as you see here Enoch walked with God. Where is the seperation, where is the sin? This one fact alone disproves your entire argument of inherent sin, there is no such thing.
How could you say Elijah was seperated from God? God did all sorts of miracles through Elijah and took Elijah up to heaven alive, where is the sin or seperation from God. Elijah had so much of the Holy Spirit and Power he actually gave Elisha a DOUBLE PORTION of Holy Spirit
2 Kings 2:8-10 (New King James Version)
8 Now Elijah took his mantle, rolled it up, and struck the water; and it was divided this way and that, so that the two of them crossed over on dry ground.
9 And so it was, when they had crossed over, that Elijah said to Elisha, “Ask! What may I do for you, before I am taken away from you?”
Elisha said, “Please let a double portion of your spirit be upon me.”
10 So he said, “You have asked a hard thing. Nevertheless, if you see me when I am taken from you, it shall be so for you; but if not, it shall not be so.”And it happened:
2 Kings 2:15 (New King James Version)
15 Now when the sons of the prophets who were from Jericho saw him, they said, “The spirit of Elijah rests on Elisha.” And they came to meet him, and bowed to the ground before him.How is that different from when Jesus blew on the disciples and they received the Holy Spirit?
Please, you two, your getting like the rest (including me), think good thoughts, be kind to others, Bod, Im done with your questions for a while, you have your beliefs, I have mine, have anything else to talk about ?
shimmer
What is this “you two”? Do you place me in the same category as BD, a man who defends the position that offense against your religion equates to oppression, which justifies a violent response, despite the fact that gods and message-delivering angels exist only in the believer's head?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Sep. 18 2010,07:48) shimmer What is this “you two”? Do you place me in the same category as BD, a man who defends the position that offense against your religion equates to oppression, which justifies a violent response, despite the fact that gods and message-delivering angels exist only in the believer's head?
Stuart
Oppression is the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner.Yes, it sometimes justifies a violent response if it didn't America would still be a land of Slaves and Slave Owners and if you don't understand that you have no compassion for anyone oppressed perhaps because you haven't experienced oppression
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 18 2010,10:23) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 18 2010,07:48) shimmer What is this “you two”? Do you place me in the same category as BD, a man who defends the position that offense against your religion equates to oppression, which justifies a violent response, despite the fact that gods and message-delivering angels exist only in the believer's head?
Stuart
Oppression is the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner.Yes, it sometimes justifies a violent response if it didn't America would still be a land of Slaves and Slave Owners and if you don't understand that you have no compassion for anyone oppressed perhaps because you haven't experienced oppression
Writing a book called The Satanic Verses was clearly thought by muslims to be burdensome, unjust or perhaps cruel, hence the proclamation of a death sentence by imams on the author.The contents of a book is enough to provoke threats of violence.
This is a dangerous, burdensome, cruel and unjust religion because “oppression” is entirely a matter of perception.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Sep. 18 2010,08:48) shimmer What is this “you two”? Do you place me in the same category as BD, a man who defends the position that offense against your religion equates to oppression, which justifies a violent response, despite the fact that gods and message-delivering angels exist only in the believer's head?
Stuart
Stuart, NO, it's just you two in this thread thats all. So I spoke to you both.—————
and bod, when you say I havent read the Quran so I dont know what Im saying, I read some of it years ago, spiritually I couldnt take it, it was too jumbled and strange compared to scripture, I have also studied all of the things in it which go against what I believe, so please dont say I know nothing and speak out of ignorance because i do know.
I know 'God has no son' is repeated throughout,
A good lie always contains truth,
Bod, if you think that by being angry at me, it's going to work, it wont. If you think that by playing games for a, 'imagined audience' will work, it wont.
Be nicer and I will be nicer back,
Quote (shimmer @ Sep. 18 2010,21:14) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 18 2010,08:48) shimmer What is this “you two”? Do you place me in the same category as BD, a man who defends the position that offense against your religion equates to oppression, which justifies a violent response, despite the fact that gods and message-delivering angels exist only in the believer's head?
Stuart
Stuart, NO, it's just you two in this thread thats all. So I spoke to you both.—————
and bod, when you say I havent read the Quran so I dont know what Im saying, I read some of it years ago, spiritually I couldnt take it, it was too jumbled and strange compared to scripture, I have also studied all of the things in it which go against what I believe, so please dont say I know nothing and speak out of ignorance because i do know.
I know 'God has no son' is repeated throughout,
A good lie always contains truth,
Bod, if you think that by being angry at me, it's going to work, it wont. If you think that by playing games for a, 'imagined audience' will work, it wont.
Be nicer and I will be nicer back,
I'm not upset with you at all you simply condemn without knowledge.what in the Quran goes against what you believe for Salvation? If you believe that Jesus was crucified for your salvation then you don't understand. The scripture says God sent Jesus for the world to be saved not God sent Jesus to be crucified for the world to be saved all that you know is based upon ignorance of the scriptures and that's okay if you understand that you only believe according to your understanding.
A good lie never contains the truth, what does that even mean? Do you mean to say a good deception always contain some truth?
Quote A good lie always contains truth Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
John 8:43-45Bod, a good lie always has some truth in it, often alot of truth in it, I follow God not man, though sometimes God will send help.
You are here to have people follow Islam that is all.
Quote (shimmer @ Sep. 19 2010,18:15) Bod, a good lie always has some truth in it, often alot of truth in it, I follow God not man, though sometimes God will send help. You are here to have people follow Islam that is all.
What do you know about Islam? you have not studied the Quran. You seem to always pick the parts of even the Bible that you like you don't admit the violence in the Bible and pretend that God did not order some people to be killed, you don't believe in Hell so no wonder you won't read the QuranI dont like the way you speak to me bod, You dont know anything about what I know, and what iv learned, you attack anyone here who you know, you do it over and over, I used to tell you things I disagreed with in Islam yet you would say things against me, I never did that to you, I dont know why I bother….goodbye.
And you believe in eternal hell, how lovely. Love thy neighbour (but dont worry if they are punished forever because it wont matter to us)…how lovely, explains a lot.
Quote You seem to always pick the parts of even the Bible that you like you don't admit the violence in the Bible and pretend that God did not order some people to be killed, You see, this is what gets at me, you say I believe the above, SAID WHO ? Are you getting me mixed up with someone else ?
Quote (shimmer @ Sep. 19 2010,21:10) Bod, I dont want to argue, love to you and take care of yourself, ok,
Okay
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
