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Hi t8,
So he was a prophet unlike to Isaiah who was not a mouthpiece for God but he was sometimes inspired in his speech?
No not so.
Nick, you misunderstand what it means to be inspired. It does not mean automatic writing, or taking control of someone’s voice box and making a broadcast. It is about submitting to God, something we should also do.
Jesus spoke only what HE heard his Father speaking. And did only what he saw his Father doing. Obviously you need to understand what this truly means. Jesus would like all people go to the toilet. So he didn’t do that because he saw the Father doing so. Jesus acted, spoke, and did what the Father wanted him to.
He had a choice, and his choice was the Father’s will. “Not my will but thine will” explains it easily enough. Notice there was still a ‘my’ and a ‘thy’, but that ‘my’ did what ‘thy’ wanted.
Jesus said, “not my will but your will”.
If that was God speaking through him in the manner by which I think you are implying, then did the Father do Jesus will?
But if you understand what I am saying, then it means that Jesus did the Father’s will and spoke, but only what he heard the Father say.
So who is it then that doesn’t understand John 12:49
For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.You see Nick. I believe that Jesus spoke that which he heard the Father say. He didn’t speak for himself or ever go outside the will of God in what he said.
This is what I believe and have told you as much.
Why do you not understand? Why accuse me of error? How can I help unblock that which is getting in the way of you understanding this?
Hi t8,
The Word spoke through Jesus Christ.
So at times did the spirit of truth from the Father.
Jesus did not speak of his own initiative or from his own spirit.
Or do you believe otherwise.?
t8,
Which words are you referring to?
Before Abraham, I am?
That is one of the worst translations as it drops some words.
genesthai is the word it drops and by itself can mean quite a bit of thing. Since it is aorist it can translate in different English tenses which make its translation dependent on context.
ego emi is somewhat better but the problem with correctly determining the English tense that is correct is difficult.
There is also context implied words that do not actually exist.
This is probably better wording though I question it as the tenses seem to be mixed in poor English structure that I think is because of Trinitarian bias. I favor that because the base word ginomai is sometimes translated made and I suspicion born is a biased as well as loose translation though it is also used quite often.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am.Hi t8,
When Jesus Christ told men to eat his flesh and drink his blood did you not recognise it was the Word speaking?
Hi t8,
The natural men were upset when Jesus told them to eat his flesh and drink his blood but you are not.
If you can understand that these words were spiritual why do you stumble over others?
Nick, this topic is about Isaiah 41:18. So we should move the current conversation to a more appropriate topic of which there are a few live ones.
But to give you a quick answer to your question rather than provide a link to elsewhere I give you an answer below and hopefully that is the end of it here.
I don’t have a problem with scripture, thus I am not stumbling over it that I am aware of.
For example, Jesus said: “Before Abraham, I am”.
I trust that Jesus was right, but you and others teach that ‘before Abraham, he wasn’t” which is contradictory to Jesus own words.
Who is stumbling then?
My attitude is this. Scripture is true. So I believe it. My job is simply to understand it with God’s help.
I do not struggle with trying to reconcile scriptures with my current understanding because I haven’t laid a predefined set of beliefs down of my own accord as an absolute. I don’t need to make excuses for scripture of which many here do.
Hi t8,
Good.
So there is hope yet that you may hear the voice of the Spirit in the words of Jesus Christ.
Hi T8,
Scripture is true.
But taking it at face value according to principles of logic denies it’s spiritual nature.
The Word was before Abraham.
Jesus was yet to be conceivedDo you believe Jesus was before Abraham?
What did Jesus say Nick. It matters what he says, not what I say or what you say.
“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
For some reason Nick, you think Jesus is saying that before Abraham he wasn’t?
Hi t8,
Jesus told us the words he was speaking were given to him.
But for some reason you do not believe him.
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