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I challenge anyone who doesn't believe in a supreme God to provide some proof that it is true/fact and I challenge all those who do believe to provide evidence that he does exist.
First let me say that anyone who claims to be an atheist and then mocks a Christian for believing in God for illogical reasons is a hypocrite. They claim that they “know” or strongly believe there is no God based on the same line of reasoning that others DO believe there is a God. Essentially it comes down to a belief. I wrote a post in response to evolution so I won't go into why it's flawed here. I would like to start off by saying that I believe the big bang theory to be true. That is to say: “God spoke and BANG, it happened” as the bumper stickers say. This sounds laughable, but in reality it is quite plausible. Let's take God out of the equation and start the assumptions rolling. We must first assume that the known universer was always here. When I say universe I mean space itself; take out all of the stars, planets, and galaxies and there you go, a black canvas, the universe. Secondly we must assume that it is infinite in size and breadth. To assume otherwise would mean that beyond ours is another universe, so the same line of reasoning would apply to that one as well. Thridly we must….ASSUME that all of the energy of the universe was again…ALWAYS here and dormant for what would seem an eternity which doesn't make since because we must first assume the universe was always here, here's the explanation: If the big bang was to happen by itslef there must have been something or someone (hint-hint) to prompt its progression from a static universe to a dynamic one. So if the universe was in a static state for an infinite amount of time how long did it wait until it blew itself up? Some may say that time didn't exist yet. Let's not get philosophical, remember we're supposed to be examining the birth of the universe from a purely scientific standpoint. Even if there is some esoteric explanation as to how the moment before the big bang can have no beginning and yet lead to a point of difference we are stuck with the following situation: The universe had no beginning, the energy had no beginning, the universe decided to change that state ( a violation of the second law of thermodynamics) and blow itself up into ordered pieces for no apparent reason whatsoever. Now with that said I must put forth other evidence for the existence of God besides logical arguments. There was a book written recently called “How the universe got its spots”. In it a young scientist puts forth evidence that the universe is not infinite but actually finite (although unimaginably huge). Secondly there is evidence coming from quantum theory that explains the necessity of a first observer before the universe's creation.Hmm I wonder who that could have been. Go to the library and dive into books on mathematics,biochemistry and physics. If you can read all of that and still have the nerve to say there is no God then you have more faith than most Christians.
Only a fool wouldn't believe in God. Even the devil knows theres a God. I mean, its almost impossible for someone to live with himself if he doesn't believe in something, because thats just stupid foolishness. Whoever heard of a painting being formed by fire, by nothing, just being there, doesn't a painter have to paint it before it is made?
Only a fool would believe in god…
Actually I don't mean that, but I think it's fairly ignorant for someone to call another person a fool for their beliefs. I do not believe in god and I have good reasoning. I disagree with anyone who puts down someone's religion in anyway.
Sure evolution is flawed, but so are the bible and the overall existence of god. If there was solid proof of anything these arguments wouldn’t probably exist. Same reason the majority of the world believes the world isn’t flat.
i'd hope someone here knows the flaw in my question…
If your god is, as you claim, omnipotent then can he create an object too heavy for himself to lift?
If God is infinite and he creates an infinite thing then it doesn't matter. Infinite is equal to infinite. Your question is really related to our 3 dimensions and finite space. You see infinite never stops. So the object cannot be bigger than God because he has no limitations. Just when you think the object is 3 feet bigger than God, you will notice that God is infinite and even beyond his own creation. Infinite is completely different ball game of which many rules you think applies, do not.
E.g. how long is infinite? As you can see our 3 dimensions cannot truly answer this. We are limited and finite.
Men understand 3 dimensions well, but the higher ones we can only guess at. Imagine a 2 dimensional being trying to understand quantum physics for example.
Also God not only exists in creation but outside it as well. Anything he makes exists in creation because it is created. But that created object wouldn't exist outside creation because it is created and contained within creation.
2 Chronicles 6:18
“But will God really dwell on earth with men? The heavens, even the highest heavens, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built!That is beyond me. Why don't you ask Him yourself? He is not far from any of us and wants to get to know you personally.You won't regret it.
Quote (DaleJury @ Sep. 29 2004,00:12) i'd hope someone here knows the flaw in my question…
It's an illogical question. It's like asking why can't squares be circles.Hi Is1.18,
Theologians invented these nonsense “omni” words to play games with. They do not appear in scripture because they relate to what we cannot begin to grasp with our puny minds. We can know God but never fully understand His dimensions.And it is vain folly to try.Quote (t8 @ Mar. 01 2004,12:33) I challenge anyone who doesn't believe in a supreme God to provide some proof that it is true/fact and I challenge all those who do believe to provide evidence that he does exist.
You can't prove that something does not exist. You must be a real rocket scientist.So then you concede that it is illogical to be an athiest?
Just as illogical as it is to believe in a supreme god that you cannot prove exists. Whats your point?
Not so reason,
To say that there is no God and for it to be a true statement of fact requires that you know everything and have looked everywhere. Essentially you have to be God to say there is no God. That is why athiesm is self refuting.
Christians believe that the evidence points to God, which is an entirely logical position.Hebrews 11
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.Tell me if you agree with these two statements, and if you disagree with one or both then tell me definitely why:
1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause of its existence.
2. The Universe began to exist.
Hi reason,
Here are three more questions that you might want to consider:1. Can order arise from disorder?
2. Can life arise from non-life?
3. Can intelligence arise from non-intelligence?If you would like me to supply the evidence that props up my belief in God, I would happily do this for you. Similarly, you are welcome to post me the evidence that fortifies your atheistic belief, and we can pragmatically discuss it.
Hi Is,
Apart from knowledge about God can you share your personal experience of his presence in your life because people often can relate to such experiences more easily?My father made a comment about Revelation 18 when the Sept 911 events had unfolded. I was intrigued so started studying eschatology. I emersed myself in it for several months. Then I started reading other sections of the Bible I spoke to me on a deep, spiritual level. I have become a new creature in Christ. I find I now am living for others more than myself. My motivation is now for the eternal. If you want tangible evidence of my fruit then let me say I could document the information for you, but its really between me and God. Suffice to say, “ive been transformed by the renewing of my mind”.
To Is 1:18
1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause of its existence.
2. The Universe began to exist.
3. Can order arise from disorder?
4. Can life arise from non-life?
5. Can intelligence arise from non-intelligence?These are fun questions but they can be reversed on believers for example if you believe as question 5 suggests that intelligence can only arise from intelligence and that God is intelligent than where did he gain his intelligence?
Futher more if you believe as question 4 suggests life can only come from life and that God is alive than what other higher God created God? and than what God created that God etc…?
The Believers get around these arguements is by saying that god is infinate and incapable of being comprehended by the human mind. Well the same thing could be true about the universe, but fortunately science does what it can to logically explain our world. If we were to stop asking scientific questions like what began the spark of life, because everyone believed that God did it. Than we may never know what process really created life because we stopped looking. I'm not advocating athiesim but simply the scientific assumption that everything occured on it's own via natural causes, everyone is free to believe what they will.
Lastly one cannot prove a negative such as God Does not exist however one can prove that his existance(or at least the Christian Version of God) is a logical contradition.
If you believe all these points than you have contradicted yourself.
1. God is wholly Good.
2. God is all powerful.
3. Good works to destroy evil.
4. Evil exists in the world.The only way you can avoid contradition is by denying one of the tenets either explicitly or implicitly such as saying evil does not exist.
I personally am agnostic( I believe there are no atheists and no true believers but that's another arguement). I consider myself a good and morally decent human being and I think that If God exists he judges us not by our belief in him but soley based on our actions toward others. I really have no basis for this belief but it's simple how I think a truely benevolent all powerful God should behave. Furthermore if God rejects me(or any other decent good and decent person) from “paradise/heaven” simply for not believing in him, when he does not provide conclusive proof of his existance, than I wouldn't want to go to heaven anway because than God would be a huge jerk(not unlike how he is portrayed in the bible).
Quote (Guest @ May 24 2005,04:48) I personally am agnostic( I believe there are no atheists and no true believers but that's another arguement). I consider myself a good and morally decent human being and I think that If God exists he judges us not by our belief in him but soley based on our actions toward others. I really have no basis for this belief but it's simple how I think a truely benevolent all powerful God should behave. Furthermore if God rejects me(or any other decent good and decent person) from “paradise/heaven” simply for not believing in him, when he does not provide conclusive proof of his existance, than I wouldn't want to go to heaven anway because than God would be a huge jerk(not unlike how he is portrayed in the bible).
Hi Tom,
It is not up to us to prove to you God exists. He says no one has any excuse for not believing He exists by the works He created.
How anyone can look at an old acorn and look up at the tree it can grow into and not be amazed is beyond me. If you do muse about such things you should read what He says about Himself and His Son in the bible.
Everyone one knows life is short and frustrating and painful. You don't need any help to know that if you have lived for 20 or 30 years let alone close to 60 as I have.
He leaves no room for sitting on the fence in the claims he makes and His insistence that we worship Him. Either these things are true or complete folly. He offers eternal life or eternal death depending on your choice.
Neither does He give “good” people any advantage over “baddies”. All have the same choice offered them by a being far greater than we are. The only standard good enough for him is perfection and that was only achieved once, by His Son. He offers you the chance to join with His Son and avoid the condemnation facing all outside Him who do not find mercy.
Think about it Tom.
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