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Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 09 2006,08:06) I think you missed my point. When I said they were teaching the Word of God, they were teacihing Jesus I meant that Jesus IS the Word of God that they were teaching. Scripture points out very clearly that Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. Nowhere in Scripture is it written that the Word of God became a book.
Oxy,Rev 15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for [thou] only [art] holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.
That is part of the song of Moses and of the Lamb to the Father, telling us that his judgments were made manifest. I believe that Jesus was bearer of the more excellent spiritual covenants/judgments of God. Moses as we know was to the old covenant what Christ is to the new. So your assertion cannot completely be devoid of Moses as the covenants that were given him to reveal are part of the whole… which would explain why the two would be singing this song to YHWH. Anyway, just a thought.It can't hurt to know Jesus better or to test what you are saying so I shall try and bear that in mind when reading… but first, just to be clear, could you clarify or affirm the statement below for me so I don't miss your point.
Is this your assertion below?
Word of God = Holy Scripture = The Word/Christ.
An equation like that would probably be more helpful. Thanks.
I'm totally amazed. All these posts and no-one has yet been able to show me how the Bible got to be called the Word (logos) of God when it has always been and will always be the most wonderful title given to Him who we call Jesus.
That COULD have something to do with the fact that most of the posts have strayed from the topic lol.
Quote (typrsn @ Aug. 09 2006,23:22) 1) If Jesus is not God, how is it that He fulfilled (Is. 7:14; Matt. 1:22, 23) being God with us? 2) If Jesus is not God, how is it that God purchased the church with His own blood? (Acts 20:28)
3) If Jesus is not Yahweh Elohim, then how did John the Baptist and Jesus fulfill Mal. 3:1; Is. 40:1-3; Is. 35:1-7; Luke 3:3-6; Matt. 11:2-6
4) How is He Yahweh our Righteousness? (Jer. 23:5,6)
5) How is He (Jesus/Yahushua) Yahweh our salvation? (Is. 12:1-6; Matt.1:21; John 4:10-14, John 7:37-39).Jesus Christ is Yahweh Elohim in the flesh and except we believe that He is He, we shall die in our sins (John 8:24) because we must believe in who He is to have life through His name (John 20:28-31).
Hi Typ:It's probably better to move this aspect of the discussion to the Trinity thread. Hope to see you there.
Please see page 361 in the said thread if this link doesn't work:
Hi Cubes, thanks for your post. I see Jesus as the Word (logos) of God. I call the Bible what Jesus called it ie. Scripture.
Jesus is the message and the Messenger. The simple truth is that when you read Scripture and you see the Word (logos) of God mentioned, see it as being Jesus rather than the Scriptures and it will take on a whole new meaning. It will enhance your relationship with Jesus, make the Scriptures more meaningful and make a lot more sense.
As for an equation? Ummm Word (logos) = Jesus, Bible = Scripture
Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 10 2006,02:59) I'm totally amazed. All these posts and no-one has yet been able to show me how the Bible got to be called the Word (logos) of God when it has always been and will always be the most wonderful title given to Him who we call Jesus. That COULD have something to do with the fact that most of the posts have strayed from the topic lol.
Patience, Oxy:It took me up until yesterday to even understand what you were saying… my husband had to explain it to me like the Apostle Paul advised! Not because you were not being clear, but because it was a non-issue for me and I couldn't relate to the same concerns you have about whether or not holy scripture is called the bible. And then he helped me understand that you felt it should be viewed as Christ… and Epistemaniac's post helped too.
What you are in effect saying, if I understand you correctly is, Why is the book (or should it be a book) referred to as the “Word of God” when it should be Christ that such reference is always made to. You then seem to suggest that the content of the book should be called scripture (which I don't dispute though a rose by any other name is still a rose).
And I guess I am at the point where I'm trying to ascertain whether you regard scripture to be synonymous or another word for Christ and vice versa.So patience. At this point, I am still at the clarification level.
Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 10 2006,03:05) Hi Cubes, thanks for your post. I see Jesus as the Word (logos) of God. I call the Bible what Jesus called it ie. Scripture. Jesus is the message and the Messenger. The simple truth is that when you read Scripture and you see the Word (logos) of God mentioned, see it as being Jesus rather than the Scriptures and it will take on a whole new meaning. It will enhance your relationship with Jesus, make the Scriptures more meaningful and make a lot more sense.
As for an equation? Ummm Word (logos) = Jesus, Bible = Scripture
Very helpful, Oxy.So you are not necessarily equating all holy scripture to be logos and so Christ, which would be the equation I presented. (Please correct me if I have still missed).
Alright. Thanks for the suggestion. I shall bear it in mind as I read and see if it is as you say and pass it along if it turns out you are right.
Blessings.
Hi Cubes, thanks for your post. Jesus called the Scriptures Scriptures and that's good enough for me. Scripture is also referred to as the words of God.
If you have a look at the Word of God however, He was in the beginning with God, The Word became flesh and the Word of God will come with His robe dipped in blood on a white horse.
It makes a difference to Scriptures like Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. I know I always receive faith when Jesus speaks to me, but never from the Scriptures unless the Spirit quickens it to me (rhema)
When God first showed me this amazing revelation there were many times that I did not understand and I went back to Him repeatedly for answers. He ALWAYS came through for me.
I would like to do this for you. Please feel free to message me if I can be of assistance as you embark on this journey of awesome discovery.
Hey Nick & Cubes,
Great posts. Thanks for saving me the time to respond to T's inane ramblings.
T, none of your “questions” change the definitions of the word “god” found in
the Bible, a common household dictionary and the Lord Jesus' own blessed mouth.
If you wish to remain in your ignorance, there is not much anyone here can do for you.Were honest when you answered MY two questions as follow?:
1. Does the Lord Jesus have a God? You said…YES
2. Does God the Father have a god? You said…NO
Logic and the common sense God Almighty gave you will tell you that you CAN NOT BE GOD or equal to Him and HAVE a GOD at the same time.
The Lord Jesus is now exalted and back in heaven but read what the Bible says.
Revelation 1:6 “…and has made us to be a kingdom of priests to serve HIS GOD AND FATHER.”
Revelation 1:1 “The Revelation of Jesus Christ which GOD GAVE HIM.”
Revelation 3:12 has the exalted Lord Jesus declaring that HE HAS A God and you know what, I'll believe him over you any day. Sorry but you ain't God Almighty if you have one. You are quite mistaken if you think otherwise.
I've moved from Tylenol to morphine at this point,
Semmy
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 09 2006,21:50) Hi t,
Can you not see the obvious inconsistency here?
Go Himself does not have blood and this scripture does not prove he has.
The Son of God is of that royal 'bloodline'.Do you believe Jesus is the only begotten Son
and the physical son of God
and not just son of God by appellation or in name only?“It is true that God is a spirit. It is also true that the blood that was shed was that of His Son. It is also true that the blood that was shed was His own blood as Paul correctly states in Acts 20:28”
Nick,There is no consistency. I know that God who is a Spirit does not have blood, flesh and bones (Luke 24:39). Jesus is the physical Son of God not by name only, but in reality. When you say royal “bloodline” are you referring to His being of the line of David or royal by virtue of the fact that God is His father? This really gets to the heart of the issue. If He is royal only by virtue of being a descendant of David, then why didn't He just have a natural father like every other man and fulfill the prophecies? He is the only of His kind according to physical birth and the first of His kind according to the resurrection from the dead. Since He is the Son of God and was born that Son, that makes Him God in the flesh. Please tell me why Paul did not say that the Son of God purchased the church with His own blood in Acts 20:28. That has not been explained by you or anyone else thus far. Also, please respond to my previous post about Docetism.
Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 09 2006,21:59) I'm totally amazed. All these posts and no-one has yet been able to show me how the Bible got to be called the Word (logos) of God when it has always been and will always be the most wonderful title given to Him who we call Jesus. That COULD have something to do with the fact that most of the posts have strayed from the topic lol.
Oxy,The simple answer is…the Bible came to be known as the Word of God by tradition. Just like many other things. Jesus is the Word of God and nothing else and no one else is.
Quote (seminarian @ Aug. 10 2006,14:43) Hey Nick & Cubes, Great posts. Thanks for saving me the time to respond to T's inane ramblings.
T, none of your “questions” change the definitions of the word “god” found in
the Bible, a common household dictionary and the Lord Jesus' own blessed mouth.
If you wish to remain in your ignorance, there is not much anyone here can do for you.Were honest when you answered MY two questions as follow?:
1. Does the Lord Jesus have a God? You said…YES
2. Does God the Father have a god? You said…NOLogic and the common sense God Almighty gave you will tell you that you CAN NOT BE GOD or equal to Him and HAVE a GOD at the same time.
The Lord Jesus is now exalted and back in heaven but read what the Bible says.
Revelation 1:6 “…and has made us to be a kingdom of priests to serve HIS GOD AND FATHER.”
Revelation 1:1 “The Revelation of Jesus Christ which GOD GAVE HIM.”
Revelation 3:12 has the exalted Lord Jesus declaring that HE HAS A God and you know what, I'll believe him over you any day. Sorry but you ain't God Almighty if you have one. You are quite mistaken if you think otherwise.
I've moved from Tylenol to morphine at this point,
Semmy
Semmy,I desire for you to respond to my post. Please answer every question that I've asked. I've asked you questions that have not been answered by you. You are indirectly responding and are still lashing out against me. Do you honestly believe that I'm expecting anyone here “to do something” for me on this issue? Just simply answer the questions. I've already agreed that the word “god” has several meanings. I agree with the scripture that you have posted too by the way, but please answer the questions and try and find a place in yourself to be peaceable about it (Rom.12:18).
Quote (typrsn @ Aug. 10 2006,15:29) The simple answer is…the Bible came to be known as the Word of God by tradition. Just like many other things. Jesus is the Word of God and nothing else and no one else is.
typrsn thanks for your post. You have absolutely hit the nail on the head my friend.But the truth is, and I'm sure you would agree, that with this understanding not only does the Bible become more alive and interesting , but also the name of Jesus is lifted up and glorified even more in the Scriptures.
Yahshua is the 'word' of God in the sense that he was God's annointed representative on earth. As God's annointed spokesman he spoke the words of God for God.
Yahshua is the 'word' of God made flesh as he was the one spoken of by YHWH throught the prophets. His being born was a fulfilment of what God had spoken of the one to come.
Yahshua is the 'Word of God' in revelation as this is a title/authority given to him.
YHWH is the word. As YHWH speaks so it will be.
YHWH has spoken through Angels, through prophets, to Moses and through Moses, to Jonah and through Jonah, etc, etc. to Yahshua and through Yahshua, etc
YHWH is the word and his word teaches us about him. How he created the world and man. How he expects us to live and how to have a relationship with him.
Do a word search on 'write' and you will see that God asked for his words – that which he had spoken – to be written down.
Notice in the following that the 'word of God' and a reference to Yahshua are used in the same sentence but 'word of God' is not a reference to Yahshua.
Quote Revelation 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.Shalom
Hi RR,
You say
“Yahshua is the 'Word of God' in revelation as this is a title/authority given to him.”Surely it is who he IS rather than a title\authority given to him.
It IS who scripture states that he isQuote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 11 2006,00:19) Hi RR ,
You say
“YHWH is the word.”
Where is this written?
How can I come to know YHWH apart from his word?YHWH created the world – He spoke and it was so.
YHWH gave commandments, statues, laws. These were given to show how we were to have a relationship with the only true God and others showed how to have a relationship with our fellow man.
YHWH has spoken of the past, present and future. We know what was, what is and what is to be because of his word.
We know that God wishes to love us and have a relationship with us. He words speak of how this relationship is to be, guiding us into a relationship of love with our creator.
How can I show YHWH that I love him? By following his word – that which he has asked me to do.
I can only know YHWH by his word? His words are truth, his words are light, and his words tell me of his character. He is my rock and my salvation.
His word, that which he has spoken, gives me understanding as to who he is.
YHWH is the word.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 11 2006,00:21) Hi RR,
You say
“Yahshua is the 'Word of God' in revelation as this is a title/authority given to him.”Surely it is who he IS rather than a title\authority given to him.
It IS who scripture states that he is
I believe this to be a title of authority given him by YHWH.How can I come to know YHWH apart from his word?
YHWH created the world – He spoke and it was so.
Hi RR,
You say
“YHWH gave commandments, statues, laws. These were given to show how we were to have a relationship with the only true God and others showed how to have a relationship with our fellow man.YHWH has spoken of the past, present and future. We know what was, what is and what is to be because of his word.”
So God speaks His word
But is not that Word which He speaks?How else could I know of God if he did not 'speak' the knowledge of himself to us, that others wrote down?
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