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Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 29 2008,21:19) And many Germans in Germany voted for Hitler. Christians killed Jews because they felt they were evil. People do all sorts of things when they feel their god justifies it.
And people speak badly about YHWH obviously due to what they must think is higher reasoning.Are we in the time where deception is so great that even the elect can be deceived if it were possible? But is it really possible if you know God to be decieved by great lies. Is it possible if you have tasted of the age to come to believe the words and study of non-believers?
In the end KJ, you can read books, watch movies that suggest all kinds of things about YHWH to poison your mind against him, but that is to be expected if YHWH's enemy is the God of this age. I have seen these lies come and go. One suggests that God's son was gay, another says that he had a secret pact with Judas, and now we have the whole paganism embrace who are claiming that Christian symbols are pagan and guess what, many of them are. But if you knew God, you wouldn't be swayed. It is also a good lesson as to why following tradition is bad. The facts will get you in the end if you follow tradition. If your foundation is tradition, then your faith will flounder.
The scriptures do not say that Jesus was born on Dec 31. That was paganism merged with Christianity with great help from Constantine that allows such lies to become supposed Christian tradition and truth. Idols, and icons are really just resurrected Babylonian gods and traditions. Would not the god of this age capitalize on his own work? I just see the power of Babylon at work and how the whole world is under her influence in one way or another. You take great risk in speaking bad about the God of the universe, because God will respect your freedom to choose him not, even if you are deceived.
The only thing that is sure is personal experience and relationship. It is not only important to know God as is written (… I never knew you…) but it is also useful in times of great darkness and deception because no matter how compelling the arguments are against YHWH and his Word, if you know him, nothing can sway you except your own desire to be swayed.
With regards to slavery the scriptures talk of conduct of slaves and masters.
Has anyone who condemns the bible because they think it is promoting slavery actually thought for one minute that the God is realistic as to what is happening on earth and offers advice given the circumstances that are actually mans making.
I mean Jesus said of a centurion that he had not seen such great faith in all of Israel. So does that mean that God is promoting the Roman Empire or that God can work through anybody, even a centurion, slave, and master.
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 29 2008,22:03) With regards to slavery the scriptures talk of conduct of slaves and masters. Has anyone who condemns the bible because they think it is promoting slavery actually thought for one minute that the God is realistic as to what is happening on earth and offers advice given the circumstances that are actually mans making.
Hi T8,
With all due respect, it was during these same times that God made laws against every concievable shortcoming.
Many of which you could be stoned to death for breaking.Why then would He give advice for something as despicable as owning slaves, just because the circumstances were of mans making? It would have been much more fair to have merely made one more law. Thou shalt not own slaves.
Tim
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 29 2008,22:29) Do you think god thinks slavery is wrong? Stuart
Greetings Stu…..I would think that slavery doesn't fit into Gods nature,however,because of the hardness of the hearts of men it exists….You might want to take note that,the United States is the only country that has abolished and made illegal all forms of slavery….Quote (TimothyVI @ Aug. 29 2008,22:58) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 29 2008,22:03) With regards to slavery the scriptures talk of conduct of slaves and masters. Has anyone who condemns the bible because they think it is promoting slavery actually thought for one minute that the God is realistic as to what is happening on earth and offers advice given the circumstances that are actually mans making.
Hi T8,
With all due respect, it was during these same times that God made laws against every concievable shortcoming.
Many of which you could be stoned to death for breaking.Why then would He give advice for something as despicable as owning slaves, just because the circumstances were of mans making? It would have been much more fair to have merely made one more law. Thou shalt not own slaves.
Tim
Greetings Tim…..could you imagine in this day and age if crime was actually punished according to Gods Law…We would not be housing murders,perverts and in general any members of society who has served notice by virtue of their actions on civilized society that they have no intention of conforming to the dictates of a peace loving God fearing culture..Stoning was the means available in biblical days,we have the means to meet out justice in a much more humane fashion today….In the OT God gives instruction on adminstrating justice….(eg. eye for an eye,any one who wantedly murders will give up his life in return,etc…..)Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 29 2008,21:19) Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 29 2008,00:58) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 29 2008,14:05) Quote (lineon @ Aug. 28 2008,11:43) Stu, Kejonn, you both make fun of this subject!!
You don't even have a opion, shame on you both
No wonder this world is as it is.
Pls. don't start quoting your favourite book again.
Make fun? Au contraire. I don't get my morals from a 2000+ year old book. Owning other humans is always wrong IMHO.
However you wouldn't have thought it was wrong if you lived in the South about a hundred years ago…… Perhaps, maybe you would have, but highly unlikely.
And many Germans in Germany voted for Hitler. Christians killed Jews because they felt they were evil. People do all sorts of things when they feel their god justifies it.
So when you were a firm believer in this this Christian God you may as well have gone along with whatever…..this is my point, exactly.Quote (theodorej @ Aug. 30 2008,02:15) Stoning was the means available in biblical days,we have the means to meet out justice in a much more humane fashion today….In the OT God gives instruction on adminstrating justice….(eg. eye for an eye,any one who wantedly murders will give up his life in return,etc…..)
Hi Theodore.I think you have got it all wrong.
God did not practice an eye for an eye.
If He did He would have commanded that if
a child sasses his parents they should sass him back,We are not just talking about an eye for an eye.
God did not command killing someone for murder only.
He commanded that His people should ;
Kill anyone who worked on the Sabbath.
Kill anyone who cursed his parents.
Kill a stubborn or rebellious son.
Kill adulterers.
Kill brides who were thought to be not virgin.
Kill homosexuals.
Kill prostitutes.
Kill anyone who entices you to worship another God.
Kill anyone who worships another God.
Kill mediums or spirits.
Kill blasphemers.
Kill anyone who eats blood.
Kill witches.
Kill false prophets.
Kill unbelievers.Seems like there were very few remedial punishments other than killing
the transgressor.
This from the God who said “thou shalt not kill.”Tim
Yes, capturing people and selling them to others forcing them to be slaves or any kind of slavery that is done by force is wrong.
Oh, I forgot to answer the second part of your question. My morals come from God my Father. Where do yours come from?
King David was hated very much for “not” ordering the death of the Man that defiled his daughter;(killed for desiring) once Again David began judgments from within his own house, that the change must begin with a willing first pardon, in came the mercy order as he intended putting Moses death penalties to death.
And Jesus intended rising Davids Statues, Moses Laws were re inthroned, to find himself A VICTOM OF THE death penalty, would that be the Last NO, the first of a slaughter, The earth was filled with cains…Quote (t8 @ Aug. 29 2008,04:58) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 29 2008,21:19) And many Germans in Germany voted for Hitler. Christians killed Jews because they felt they were evil. People do all sorts of things when they feel their god justifies it.
And people speak badly about YHWH obviously due to what they must think is higher reasoning.Nah, that just comes from reading the OT with the blinders taken off.
Quote Are we in the time where deception is so great that even the elect can be deceived if it were possible? But is it really possible if you know God to be decieved by great lies. Is it possible if you have tasted of the age to come to believe the words and study of non-believers? In the end KJ, you can read books, watch movies that suggest all kinds of things about YHWH to poison your mind against him, but that is to be expected if YHWH's enemy is the God of this age.
Yes, I read a book that painted him in a very bad light: the Bible.
Quote I have seen these lies come and go. Are you saying the bible is a lie?
Quote One suggests that God's son was gay, another says that he had a secret pact with Judas, and now we have the whole paganism embrace who are claiming that Christian symbols are pagan and guess what, many of them are. But if you knew God, you wouldn't be swayed. Can you truly know God? Tell me why your view of God does not match another's.
Quote It is also a good lesson as to why following tradition is bad. The facts will get you in the end if you follow tradition. If your foundation is tradition, then your faith will flounder. Not really. Tradition will have you believing what comes out of the pulpit, a much safer venture than reading for yourself.
Quote The scriptures do not say that Jesus was born on Dec 31. That was paganism merged with Christianity with great help from Constantine that allows such lies to become supposed Christian tradition and truth. Idols, and icons are really just resurrected Babylonian gods and traditions. Would not the god of this age capitalize on his own work? I just see the power of Babylon at work and how the whole world is under her influence in one way or another. You take great risk in speaking bad about the God of the universe, because God will respect your freedom to choose him not, even if you are deceived. I personally think the bible speaks poorly of the God of the universe. You go along with the heinous book. Who is to say you are not dishonoring God by believing the rubbish written of him in the bible?
Quote The only thing that is sure is personal experience and relationship. It is not only important to know God as is written (… I never knew you…) but it is also useful in times of great darkness and deception because no matter how compelling the arguments are against YHWH and his Word, if you know him, nothing can sway you except your own desire to be swayed.
You mean, have blind faith and don't question?Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 29 2008,13:31) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 29 2008,21:19) Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 29 2008,00:58) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 29 2008,14:05) Quote (lineon @ Aug. 28 2008,11:43) Stu, Kejonn, you both make fun of this subject!!
You don't even have a opion, shame on you both
No wonder this world is as it is.
Pls. don't start quoting your favourite book again.
Make fun? Au contraire. I don't get my morals from a 2000+ year old book. Owning other humans is always wrong IMHO.
However you wouldn't have thought it was wrong if you lived in the South about a hundred years ago…… Perhaps, maybe you would have, but highly unlikely.
And many Germans in Germany voted for Hitler. Christians killed Jews because they felt they were evil. People do all sorts of things when they feel their god justifies it.
So when you were a firm believer in this this Christian God you may as well have gone along with whatever…..this is my point, exactly.
What is “whatever”? My sense of morality is basically the same as it was when I was a Christian. I don't kill, steal, cheat, etc. I never saw slavery as good and still don't. The biggest difference is that I can see all people as equal now, not just those “saved by grace”.Quote (942767 @ Aug. 29 2008,16:24) Yes, capturing people and selling them to others forcing them to be slaves or any kind of slavery that is done by force is wrong.
Of the people not killed by the Israelites, did any become slaves of the Hebrew people?Quote (942767 @ Aug. 30 2008,09:38) Oh, I forgot to answer the second part of your question. My morals come from God my Father. Where do yours come from?
I don't think they do.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 30 2008,12:09) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 30 2008,09:38) Oh, I forgot to answer the second part of your question. My morals come from God my Father. Where do yours come from?
I don't think they do.Stuart
HI Stu.Well, you are free to voice your opinion, but ulitmately matters is what God thinks about both you and I as you will surely find out.
Where do your morals come from?
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 30 2008,12:00) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 29 2008,16:24) Yes, capturing people and selling them to others forcing them to be slaves or any kind of slavery that is done by force is wrong.
Of the people not killed by the Israelites, did any become slaves of the Hebrew people?
Hi KJ:You are the one questioning God's motives. The question is did God approve of forced slavery?
Does He approve of the hard speeches that you and others are making against Him?
Hi 90210
If the bible is anything to go by you would do better to take your morals from the short german chancellor with the silly moustache. He did not commit genocide to nearly the same extent as your god. You are welcome to live your life in fear of the emperor's new clothes. Our ethics actually arise from our evolutionary hard-wiring plus the cumulative effect of cultural ethical development.
What does god think about you not stoning adulterers? His 'son' said that was good to teach.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 30 2008,12:41) Hi 90210 If the bible is anything to go by you would do better to take your morals from the short german chancellor with the silly moustache. He did not commit genocide to nearly the same extent as your god. You are welcome to live your life in fear of the emperor's new clothes. Our ethics actually arise from our evolutionary hard-wiring plus the cumulative effect of cultural ethical development.
What does god think about you not stoning adulterers? His 'son' said that was good to teach.
Stuart
Hi Stu:Jesus stated: “He who has seen me has seen the Father”.
Quote n 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
Jhn 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Jhn 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
Jhn 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with [his] finger wrote on the ground, [as though he heard them not].
Jhn 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Jhn 8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
Jhn 8:9 And they which heard [it], being convicted by [their own] conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, [even] unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
Jhn 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
Jhn 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.Quote What does god think about you not stoning adulterers? His 'son' said that was good to teach. –stu.
Of course, you're wrong again.
Quote Jhn 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Obviously, they all had sin. So, your understanding of scripture is a bit twisted. No one dared throw a stone. They would have been saying they themselves were perfect. Jesus' reasoning and teaching methods astounded many.
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