- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (david @ Mar. 12 2014,15:12) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2014,15:06) Hi,
Slavesget free food and lodging and do not have to pay rates of gas bills or rates.
So do dogs.
Nick, imagine canada, decides we like New Zealand. We are going to conquer it.
So, we do a surprise attack. No one would ever spect it so it works.We kill all the males. We don't need them.
We keep the women and the children. We now own them. We bring them back to canada. We take some of the wives as concubines and wives. We own them as property. When the slaves are not obedient to us, the owners, we must discipline them. A servant is not letting himself be corrected by mere words. So what are we to do? The especially disobedient slaves are beaten badly, but not so badly that their teeth are ruined or they are blinded. We ensure that they do to die. All is well if they recover after a couple of days. And so life goes on. New Zealand slaves living in Canada.
Other than the legal problems with this, if law were taken away do you see any problems with this?
This is the problem with Bible worship, people will believe the most outrageous crap just because it's in the Bible.
You CAN find a discussion and justification about slavery in Genesis, but oddly you won't find God claims to have written it.
It is good for the world that Biblical literalist are a dwindling population.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2014,17:03) Hi David,
You seem to be upset with scripture on this.
And true to form nick, you still don't answer questions.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2014,17:03) Hi David,
You seem to be upset with scripture on this.
Given the situation I presented, would you be upset if that actually happened? I just try to put myself in other people's minds and actually understand what it must have been like. Most do not imagine what it must have been like. They see words or even read words, but they seem to not want to put themself into the picture.Ok. Imagine for a second that you were presently a doctor. You are the doctor slave in a land of slaves. You are the one who treates the backs of these slaves. It's your job to heal their ripped and beaten flesh. One of the little ones ask you as you are trearing the wounds: “what are your thoughts on slavery”?
What do you tell the girl?
Hi David,
Does it annoy you that God never even spoke against slavery in His Word?The religion of men certainly does-that is humanism.
The things that get in the road of faith are wealth and pride, comfort and sufficiency etc
But lack and and loss and suffering are doors to the real issue for God of salvation.God has chosen the poor to be rich in faith. Blessed are those who weep and mourn-they shall be comforted. Blessed are the lowly, they shall inherit the land.
Hi David
Please look at these verses.
1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Quote So, the belief is that slavery was ALSO IMMORAL BACK IN ANCIEMT ISRAELITE TIME?
But that god just sanctioned it?But doesn't that seem weird to you? Putting aside the Hebrew “hired worker” non-slave type servants, and focusing only on the actual beaten type of forced slave labor, yes, seems to be universally regarded as immoral and an outrage.
So, why wouldn't god just say: 'this is wrong. Don't do it'? Rather than making laws for it, which seem to condone it?
If I think murder is wrong, I don't make laws that say: 'you may only murder this way or that way and don't use knives use guns,' but I say: “don't murder because it's a bad bad thing.”
Did god not have the power to administer whatever rules he saw fit? (Again, not talking about the hired worker servant slaves but about the actual slave slaves.)
Couldn't he have said: maybe don't steel women and children from other nations and hit them with sticks and have sex with (and marry) the virgins?
Hi David,It was not considered immoral back then, but normal for them.
God gave the laws to be obeyed, and his laws were righteous according to his purpose.
Those slaves could have been tortured and killed, but their lives spared instead. The beatings were not to be too serious as to cause them permanent damage, but a form of discipline which was not nice, but simple, as they couldn’t be sent to prison and fined or sacked. We don’t know what the slaves did to deserve this, but they needed some sort of fear to keep them from trouble, or repercussions for their crimes committed.I’m sure if the laws today allowed stick beatings for crimes instead of jail penalties/hefty fines or sackings, most would opt for the beatings. Easier way out. Over and done.
As for the virgins, they could of been raped by many men, and killed, but the laws were there to protect them, not harm them. If they married them, then they were no longer slaves. I'm sure many women back then would of wanted this.
The scriptures say that the law was a curse. Righteousness was not in their hearts, but order had to be maintained.
Everything was leading up to the new covenant, where love had to be no. one in our hearts or it would not stand out.
EX 12:49 “ The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you.”
LEV 19:10 ‘Nor shall you glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather the fallen fruit of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the needy and for the stranger. I am the LORD your God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2014,19:58) Hi David,
If you were God would you do things differently?
Nick, That's a weird thing to tell the girl. I don't see it encouraging her or making her feel better.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2014,21:20) Hi David,
Does it annoy you that God never even spoke against slavery in His Word?The religion of men certainly does-that is humanism.
The things that get in the road of faith are wealth and pride, comfort and sufficiency etc
But lack and and loss and suffering are doors to the real issue for God of salvation.God has chosen the poor to be rich in faith. Blessed are those who weep and mourn-they shall be comforted. Blessed are the lowly, they shall inherit the land.
NickThe only thing that annoys me in this world is people who are unable to answer questions and despite avoiding those questions, and blocking certain realities from their minds, they are firm in their delusions.
And now for random thoughts or scriptures as a distraction to my own mind and yours……
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 13 2014,04:40) EX 12:49 “ The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you.”
LEV 19:10 ‘Nor shall you glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather the fallen fruit of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the needy and for the stranger. I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 24:22Numbers 15:16
The above are the equivalents to ex 12:49
Neither of them are talking about slavery at all and exodus 12:49 isn't either although it does mention verses before that slaves must be circumcised.
I'm not sure why you mention these scriptures.
Quote As for the virgins, they could of been raped by many men, and killed, but the laws were there to protect them, not harm them. If they married them, then they were no longer slaves. I'm sure many women back then would of wanted this. Journey, to be fair, the laws were there to protect their eyes from being blinded or their teeth from being broken or from them being beaten so badly they don't recover. Some would consider beatings to be “harm.”
If you are a women, which would you want:
1. To stay with your nation and family?
2. To have your family killed and to become a concubine or sex slave of a foreign nation?Yes, it may be better than death possibly. Possibly not.
It's true that being raped by many men is worse than being raped by one. What I suggest is that one is too much.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 13 2014,11:45) Hi David,
So nothing of value to offer?
Was this just a game to vent your frustrations?
Nick, I used to indulge you for weeks and months before I flipped the switch and acted as you do. Today, I flip the switch much faster. Consider it flipped.Hi David,
So where did this moral discussion lead?
What is written is of far more value than man's mores.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 13 2014,12:06) Hi David,
So where did this moral discussion lead?
What is written is of far more value than man's mores.
I think it will eventually lead to this. People that are bad at thinking should be beaten by me.PROVERBS 26:3
“A whip for the horse, a halter for the donkey, and a rod for the backs of fools!”PROVERBS 19:29
“Penalties are prepared for mockers, and beatings for the backs of fools.”PROVERBS 10:13
“Wisdom is found on the lips of the discerning, but a rod is for the back of him who lacks judgment.”PROVERBS 18:6
“The lips of one who is stupid enter into quarreling, and his very mouth calls even for strokes.”PROVERBS 20:30
“Blows and wounds cleanse away evil, and beatings purge the inmost being.”These words nick and me following them with regard to fools is far more important than mans ideas.
Quote (david @ Mar. 10 2014,06:13) I have been away for a while. I went to another country where slavery still exists. I bought some people and they are now my possessions or property. My money. I am careful not to injure their teeth or eyes but I do beat them with a stick as a form of discipline from time to time. It seems these servants or slaves pay no heed to words. What choice do I have? (Prov 29:19)
While I know this is scripturally ok, I'm starting to have second thoughts about it. What do others think?
What do others think about me?
It does not seem like slavery was ever done away with from a biblical standpoint. It seems like it's something that we should still be teaching:
1 TIMOTHY 6:1-3
“Let those who are under the yoke of SLAVERY keep on considering their owners worthy of full honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may never be spoken of injuriously. Moreover, let those having believing owners not be disrespectful to them because they are brothers. Rather, they should serve more readily, because those receiving the benefit of their good service are believers and beloved. KEEP ON TEACHING THESE THINGS and giving these exhortations. IF ANY MAN TEACHES ANOTHER DOCTRINE and does not agree with the wholesome instruction…”(The above is of course made up.)
Would anyone feel negatively of me if I did this? If it was true.Quote (t8 @ Mar. 10 2014,14:48) Is slavery wrong? No.
Is forced slavery wrong? Yes.We should be slaves of Christ. But we choose to serve him. He doesn't force us to serve him.
That is my view now without delving deep into scripture regarding it.
NickIs forced slavery wrong? T8 says yes.
T8 says forced slavery is wrong. This is based on FEELINGS about slavery, but I'm certain he would quickly change his words if he read a couple scriptures showing obvious forced slavery as a part of the law.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
