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As my username indicates, I am ever interested in asking the kind of questions that ferret out truth from complicated issues. Well, this message board has been posing a lot of difficult questions of late, and I have been both fascinated and frustrated by the answers. Rather than try to give my own feeble answers to the questions already posed, I thought that I would try to add a slightly different twist. It is a question aimed at Christians because I think that believers have the most to prove. Here's the question:
Is slavery wrong? If so, by what standard do you declare it wrong?
The Torah has specific laws pertaining to slavery which reaffirm the institution of slavery. Now it's often said that the slavery in the bible was not like the brutal slavery of the most recent centuries. In other words, biblical slavery was less harsh. But, certain laws in the Torah belie this idea. For example:
Exodus 21:20-21:
“And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property.“Clearly, beating a slave was not a problem for those who followed Torah, as long it did not result in immediate death. In essence, a slave was slightly better than a mule. You could beat him every day of his life without violating any of laws outlined in scipture.
Of course, one might suggest that the New Testament nullified such laws, but as far as I can tell, there is no anti-slavery rhetoric in the New Testament. In fact, there's a Colossians passage that reaffirms the legitimacy of slavery.
Colossians 3:18-22:
“Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them. Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord. Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged. Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord.“This passage addresses all the elements of a family: husbands, wives, children, and slaves! In other words, Paul writes to explain how good Christians should act in a good Christian family, and as part of addressing this proto-typical Christian family, he casually mentions a slaves responsibility without any indication that a good Christian family should not own slaves. In fact, as far as I know, there is no mention in scripture of setting any slave free who is not an Israelite.
So, if you derive your sense of right and wrong solely from scripture, then you should at least be tolerant of slavery if not wholly for it. As far as I can tell, there is no scriptural case to be made against slavery, and a very strong scriptural case in favor of slavery.
So, I ask again, as a Christian, do you think slavery is wrong? If you do, where did you get the moral authority to say so?
Happy thinking!
Hi WIT,
Romans 6:16
Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
Romans 6:18
You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Romans 6:22
But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.
Ephesians 6:6
Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.Matthew 19:3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?” 4 “Haven't you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' 5 and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.” 7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?” 8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
I believe that God establishes guidlines for how to handle items which He Himself is against, He knows due to the hardness of hearts
men will do these things.I believe that this is further supported by Ephesians 6:9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.
My opinion – Wm
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 28 2008,08:41) Well, that was a nice way of avoiding the real questions.
Face it, any answer short of the “OT is all wrong” would be ridiculed by you. In other words, any answer that doesn't match what your preconcieved ideas are is wrong but rather then build a case you simply ridicule it.Wm
Quote In fact, as far as I know, there is no mention in scripture of setting any slave free 1 Corinthians 7:20Each one should remain in the situation which he was in when God called him. 21Were you a slave when you were called? Don't let it trouble you—although if you can gain your freedom, do so. 22For he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord's freedman; similarly, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ's slave.
Quote (seekingtruth @ Aug. 27 2008,22:49) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 28 2008,08:41) Well, that was a nice way of avoiding the real questions.
Face it, any answer short of the “OT is all wrong” would be ridiculed by you. In other words, any answer that doesn't match what your preconcieved ideas are is wrong but rather then build a case you simply ridicule it.Wm
I just said you were avoiding WIT's questions and you were. You are dodging the real issue of slavery in the bible.Quote (Stu @ Aug. 28 2008,21:58) Christians, is slavery wrong? The silence is deafening.
Stuart
It's wrong today (you can be put in jail for keeping someone against their will). But it sure was acceptable in our past history. They even had “markets” where you could buy and trade slaves. I'm sure some exist today throughout the world – poor souls. I suppose slavery will always exist to some degree, if not to the fullest degree.Mandy
Slavery!!
Only the dregs of humankind
Practise this evil form of dehumanization of mankind.
Only the dregs that scrape the bottom of the barrel
of the unbelievers practise this form of evil.Types of slavery: Childe slavery in various evil degrees, which
I don't even want to mention.Woman slavery in various evil degrees.
Men slavery in various evil degrees.
Drug addicts Alchohlics etc etc
Animal slavery.
The dregs of humankind that feed this dehumanization should be locked away forever.
Africa is full of this evil practise
So is Middle East, Far East
Europe, the Americas
Australia, New Zealand etc etcStu, Kejonn, you both make fun of this subject!!
You don't even have a opion, shame on you both
No wonder this world is as it is.
Pls. don't start quoting your favourite book again.Lineon
Quote In fact, as far as I know, there is no mention in scripture of setting any slave free 15When runaway slaves from other countries come to Israel and ask for protection, you must not hand them back to their owners. 16Instead, you must let them choose which one of your towns they want to live in. Don't be cruel to runaway slaves.
Quote (seekingtruth @ Aug. 28 2008,12:38) I believe that God establishes guidlines for how to handle items which He Himself is against, He knows due to the hardness of hearts
men will do these things.
Why didn't God just make law 614, thou shalt not have slaves?Tim
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 28 2008,23:01) Anyone here know why the Southern Baptists were formed?
The Northern Baptists from Michigan moved to Florida.Tim
Quote (seekingtruth @ Aug. 28 2008,07:38) Matthew 19:3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?” 4 “Haven't you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' 5 and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.” 7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?” 8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.” I believe that God establishes guidlines for how to handle items which He Himself is against, He knows due to the hardness of hearts
men will do these things.I believe that this is further supported by Ephesians 6:9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.
My opinion – Wm
That's an fair point. However, it ignores the fact that Jesus never spoke an ill word against slavery, nor did Paul. If the OT law with respect to slavery was a compromise, the NT certainly does not say so. After all, this is an awfully big compromise:Exodus 21:21: “… he shall not be punished; for he is his property.”
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 28 2008,09:02) Hi,
Is moralism wrong?
If it is, then scripture is useless, as the vast majority of scripture is about teaching what is right versus what is wrong.Do you prefer immoralism?
Quote (seekingtruth @ Aug. 28 2008,11:01) Quote In fact, as far as I know, there is no mention in scripture of setting any slave free 1 Corinthians 7:20Each one should remain in the situation which he was in when God called him. 21Were you a slave when you were called? Don't let it trouble you—although if you can gain your freedom, do so. 22For he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord's freedman; similarly, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ's slave.
This passage is addressed to the slave, not the slave owner, so no one is being commanded to let a slave go free. On the contrary, if a slave finds that he can't gain his freedom, he should not “let it trouble [him]”.In other words, this passage places no Christian under any obligation to free anyone, including his own slaves.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 28 2008,20:30) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 28 2008,21:58) Christians, is slavery wrong? The silence is deafening.
Stuart
It's wrong today (you can be put in jail for keeping someone against their will). But it sure was acceptable in our past history. They even had “markets” where you could buy and trade slaves. I'm sure some exist today throughout the world – poor souls. I suppose slavery will always exist to some degree, if not to the fullest degree.Mandy
Mandy,Are you saying that true righteousness changes from generation to generation? In other words, if you lived in the early 1800s in America, do you think that it would have been morally fine for you to own slaves and (for good measure) to beat them daily?
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