Is observing christmas and easter ok?

[Debra]

Quote (david @ Feb. 11 2007,21:55)

Quote I am fully aware that the 25th of December has nothing to to with Jesus's birth, and my attitude isn't “who cares” as you assume it is. I'm sure God WOULD mind if I mixed up my worship to Him with other god's. Why have you chosen to celebrate Christ's birth on the day of the sun god, when everyone else falsely believes it is Christ's birth? Does that not seem to be perpetuating a lie? God wants to be worshiped with spirit and truth, we are told. Jesus was born to bear witness to the truth, we are told.

Hi David
Jesus healed a man on the sabbath, why did He choose the sabbath, why didn't He say, come back tomorrow?

[david]

Ex. 31:16, 17: “The sons of Israel must keep the sabbath, so as to carry out the sabbath during their generations. It is a covenant to time indefinite [“a perpetual covenant,” RS]. Between me and the sons of Israel it is a sign to time indefinite.” (Notice that sabbath observance was a sign between Jehovah and Israel; this would not be the case if everyone else were also obligated to keep the Sabbath. The Hebrew word rendered “perpetual” in RS is ‛oh·lam′, which basically means a period of time that, from the standpoint of the present, is indefinite or hidden from sight but of long duration. That can mean forever, but not necessarily so. At Numbers 25:13 the same Hebrew word is applied to the priesthood, which later ended, according to Hebrews 7:12.)

Rom. 10:4: “Christ is the end of the Law, so that everyone exercising faith may have righteousness.” (Sabbath keeping was a part of that Law. God used Christ to bring that Law to its end. Our having a righteous standing with God depends on faith in Christ, not on keeping a weekly sabbath.) (Also Galatians 4:9-11; Ephesians 2:13-16)

Col. 2:13-16: “[God] kindly forgave us all our trespasses and blotted out the handwritten document against us, which consisted of decrees and which was in opposition to us . . . Therefore let no man judge you in eating and drinking or in respect of a festival or of an observance of the new moon or of a sabbath.” (If a person was under the Mosaic Law and was judged guilty of profaning the Sabbath, he was to be stoned to death by the whole congregation, according to Exodus 31:14 and Numbers 15:32-35. Many who argue for sabbath keeping have reason to be glad that we are not under that Law. As shown in the scripture here quoted, an approved standing with God no longer requires observance of the sabbath requirement given to Israel.)

Yes, Debra, Jesus healed a man on the Sabbath. Perhaps he chose the Sabbath to remind us that Christ was the end of the law, including the Sabbath.
But I don't remember Jesus following the pagan traditions of the men around him. I don't remember him endorsing lies of any sort. I don't remember him indicating that gross commercialism is a good thing.

Debra, I ask this question again: If it's just Jesus birth and not the Christmas celebration that is important to you, why not celebrate the birth on a date closer to his birth, a few months before Christmas?

Why, rather do you choose to go along with Satan's world and combine Jesus birth with the birth of the sun god?
“Hey Jesus. I know this isn't your birthday, but I've chosen to go along with the pope who believed that you can mix paganism with Christianity.”
How would he respond to that?

Jesus likes truth.
Jesus dislikes false gods.
Nowhere does the Bible command us to celebrate Jesus birth
The early Christians absolutely refused to celebrate Jesus birth, because even birthdays were considered a custom for the pagans. (ever wonder why the lit candles, the round cake, the birthday wishes?)

Nowhere does the Bible say: Do not celebrate Christmas.
It does give us many principles (basic truths) that we can use to discern if a thing is good or bad.

How does God feel about mixing bad things with Christianity?

2 CORINTHIANS 6:14-17
“what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have?

Or what sharing does light have with darkness?

Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Béli·al?

Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever?

And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols?
For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I shall reside among them and walk among [them], and I shall be their God, and they will be my people.” “‘Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take YOU in.’””

What harmony is there between true Christianity and lies or paganism? None.

What sharing does true worship have with lies? None.

[charity]

The Sabbath

It is good the 7th day Sabbath in the eye’s of earthly minds it is given to keep holy a day

Even the Laws that came regarding Sabbaths are to be observed!
But greater it is too…
keep the 7th day of creation holy when God finished his work and rested
To be transformed into the Image of the Son and then we rest in him having ceased from our own works
“The will of Man” Sudued
No longer my will but Gods will liveth in me

Hbr 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

A heavenly Mind also, spoken of before the Law was added made as holyness the seventh day of rest.

[Debra]

Quote (david @ Feb. 12 2007,08:52)

Ex. 31:16, 17: “The sons of Israel must keep the sabbath, so as to carry out the sabbath during their generations. It is a covenant to time indefinite [“a perpetual covenant,” RS]. Between me and the sons of Israel it is a sign to time indefinite.” (Notice that sabbath observance was a sign between Jehovah and Israel; this would not be the case if everyone else were also obligated to keep the Sabbath. The Hebrew word rendered “perpetual” in RS is ‛oh·lam′, which basically means a period of time that, from the standpoint of the present, is indefinite or hidden from sight but of long duration. That can mean forever, but not necessarily so. At Numbers 25:13 the same Hebrew word is applied to the priesthood, which later ended, according to Hebrews 7:12.) Rom. 10:4: “Christ is the end of the Law, so that everyone exercising faith may have righteousness.” (Sabbath keeping was a part of that Law. God used Christ to bring that Law to its end. Our having a righteous standing with God depends on faith in Christ, not on keeping a weekly sabbath.) (Also Galatians 4:9-11; Ephesians 2:13-16) Col. 2:13-16: “[God] kindly forgave us all our trespasses and blotted out the handwritten document against us, which consisted of decrees and which was in opposition to us . . . Therefore let no man judge you in eating and drinking or in respect of a festival or of an observance of the new moon or of a sabbath.” (If a person was under the Mosaic Law and was judged guilty of profaning the Sabbath, he was to be stoned to death by the whole congregation, according to Exodus 31:14 and Numbers 15:32-35. Many who argue for sabbath keeping have reason to be glad that we are not under that Law. As shown in the scripture here quoted, an approved standing with God no longer requires observance of the sabbath requirement given to Israel.) Yes, Debra, Jesus healed a man on the Sabbath. Perhaps he chose the Sabbath to remind us that Christ was the end of the law, including the Sabbath. But I don't remember Jesus following the pagan traditions of the men around him. I don't remember him endorsing lies of any sort. I don't remember him indicating that gross commercialism is a good thing. Debra, I ask this question again: If it's just Jesus birth and not the Christmas celebration that is important to you, why not celebrate the birth on a date closer to his birth, a few months before Christmas? Why, rather do you choose to go along with Satan's world and combine Jesus birth with the birth of the sun god? “Hey Jesus. I know this isn't your birthday, but I've chosen to go along with the pope who believed that you can mix paganism with Christianity.” How would he respond to that? Jesus likes truth. Jesus dislikes false gods. Nowhere does the Bible command us to celebrate Jesus birth The early Christians absolutely refused to celebrate Jesus birth, because even birthdays were considered a custom for the pagans. (ever wonder why the lit candles, the round cake, the birthday wishes?) Nowhere does the Bible say: Do not celebrate Christmas. It does give us many principles (basic truths) that we can use to discern if a thing is good or bad. How does God feel about mixing bad things with Christianity? 2 CORINTHIANS 6:14-17 “what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Béli·al? Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever? And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I shall reside among them and walk among [them], and I shall be their God, and they will be my people.” “‘Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take YOU in.’”” What harmony is there between true Christianity and lies or paganism? None. What sharing does true worship have with lies? None.

Hi David

My family are not all believers, but I'm praying that they will be and the 25th is as any other day to me and to them too. I know it dosn't tell us anywhere to celebrate Jesus's birthday, so why would I choose another day to celebrate His birthday, when we're not told to do so. Anyway there are so many days in the year that are celebrated by pagans to their gods we are only aware of some, but there are many gods more than 365, so if I were to pick another day it might just be one of their birthdays. I'm not able to answer your question any further than I have. I except that you as a JW think this way, but I'm not a JW so we'll just be going round and round in circles. I'm accountable to God and He is my judge, and if He is upset with me because of this then I'm sure He will tell me..
God bless.

[david]

Quote

I know it dosn't tell us anywhere to celebrate Jesus's birthday, so why would I choose another day to celebrate His birthday

“why” indeed.

Quote

there are many gods more than 365, so if I were to pick another day it might just be one of their birthdays.

I think you and others miss my point. Perhaps tommor is a day that the wiccan religion holds as sacred. This doesn't mean you can't eat, or breath or do anything on that day. But would you want to imitate what they are doing on that day and make those false worship customs of those pagans a part of your worship? Would you want to hold that day special BECAUSE it is a special day to them? Would you imitate thier practices?
This is what people do with christmas–an ancient pagan festival with a name change. (the pagans today still hold it as sacred)

Quote

I'm not able to answer your question any further than I have.

I was hoping someone would answer these questions:
What harmony is there between true Christianity and lies or paganism?
What sharing does true worship have with lies?

Quote

I'm accountable to God and He is my judge, and if He is upset with me because of this then I'm sure He will tell me..

Will he perhaps tell you through the Bible, here:
2 CORINTHIANS 6:14-17
“what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have?

Or what sharing does light have with darkness?

Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Béli·al?

Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever?

And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols?
For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I shall reside among them and walk among [them], and I shall be their God, and they will be my people.” “‘Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take YOU in.’””

[charity]

Observing the strength of the law being death and the prophets that God did not send

Or what sharing does light have with darkness?

Ezr 7:6 This Ezra went up from Babylon; and he [was] a ready scribe in the law of Moses, which the LORD God of Israel had given: and the king granted him all his request, according to the hand of the LORD his God upon him.

Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Jesus walked into this strength of law that had become evil Jerusalem under Babylon’s rulings.. cursed

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:
Mat 20:18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,

Satan’s seating himself in the temple separating the seed; that Christ should appear to sit on David’s throne again for a man had sat himself in the seat showing himself to be God
Christ redeeming us from the curse; but even so it is passed down on through generations to us now even

The law casting out children woman?
Neh 13:23 ¶ In those days also saw I Jews [that] had married wives of Ashdod, of Ammon, [and] of Moab:
Neh 13:24 And their children spake half in the speech of Ashdod, and could not speak in the Jews' language, but according to the language of each people.
Neh 13:25 And I contended with them, and cursed them, and smote certain of them, and plucked off their hair, and made them swear by God, [saying], Ye shall not give your daughters unto their sons, nor take their daughters unto your sons, or for yourselves.

Set free

A ruthless attude appears with those under and cursed to Law

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

[charity]

Is it to overcome?
It dose leave us feeling this way
The law has condemned till I feel guilty
even become cursed to captive to move and be free
Can I take part in christmas ignoring the waging war that is within me?
1Cr 15:56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
Cr 15:57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.
Yet is it a sacrifice of a broken heart that is exceptable to the lord

When Im asked what are you doing for christmas?
Are you ready have you done all your shoping?
I tell a truthful report gifts a good blessed to give everyday
Then you become the grinch thats spoiling christmas
But how can I explain the sadness inside it is truly enough

charity

[david]

To Nick,
The truth, which you haven't disagreed with, is that Christmas, the very date, is a lie. A lie that many perpetuate.
People may keep defending the right of people to celebrate Christmas if they wish.
I have never said people don't have the right to celebrate or wallow around in lies and paganism. They have that right. They have that freedom.
I simply want to endorse the truth, which is this:

The Bible doesn't allow for syncretism, which as you yourself stated is “pure folly.”
Christmas is synrcetism of Christianity and paganism, mixed with a few lies.

You know these things, and and you don't argue them, but rather, you keep repeating that people have the right to do what they want. Of course they do. They have the right to commit whatever vile things God hates.

I just want the truth to be known.
You want people to be free.
I'm sorry if you think the truth infringes on your freedom or the freedom's of others.

[david]

What harmony is there between true Christianity and lies or paganism?
What sharing does true worship have with lies?

[Debra]

Quote (david @ Feb. 12 2007,10:48)

Quote I know it dosn't tell us anywhere to celebrate Jesus's birthday, so why would I choose another day to celebrate His birthday “why” indeed. Quote there are many gods more than 365, so if I were to pick another day it might just be one of their birthdays. I think you and others miss my point. Perhaps tommor is a day that the wiccan religion holds as sacred. This doesn't mean you can't eat, or breath or do anything on that day. But would you want to imitate what they are doing on that day and make those false worship customs of those pagans a part of your worship? Would you want to hold that day special BECAUSE it is a special day to them? Would you imitate thier practices? This is what people do with christmas–an ancient pagan festival with a name change. (the pagans today still hold it as sacred) Quote I'm not able to answer your question any further than I have. I was hoping someone would answer these questions: What harmony is there between true Christianity and lies or paganism? What sharing does true worship have with lies? Quote I'm accountable to God and He is my judge, and if He is upset with me because of this then I'm sure He will tell me.. Will he perhaps tell you through the Bible, here: 2 CORINTHIANS 6:14-17 “what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Béli·al? Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever? And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I shall reside among them and walk among [them], and I shall be their God, and they will be my people.” “‘Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take YOU in.’””

Hi David
What is your point?
Maybe it's because I'm not a JW that I'm missing it.
You have read my posts on this thread, I have explained my reasons why on this day I gather with my family, was I not clear enough?
What do you suggest I do?
Why is it wrong that I share the Gospal with my family, should I stay away and let them gather without me?
Didn't Jesus shine the light into darkness when He sat at the table with those thought of as ungodly.
What of times I go into the arena of pagans and share the Truth? Am I mixing light with darkness?
Do you consider it wrong?
Am I to say, because it's the 25th, I won't speak today?
What would you do if on your going from door to door rounds, you came across a pagan, and were invited into their house, would you say, I can't share with you and not except their hospitality?
I would go into their house, and share the Gospal with them.
I trust in God's promise to protect me, so am not afraid.
I won't run away like Jonah.
Blessings David.

[david]

Quote

When Im asked what are you doing for christmas? Are you ready have you done all your shoping? I tell a truthful report gifts a good blessed to give everyday Then you become the grinch thats spoiling christmas But how can I explain the sadness inside it is truly enough

It would be a shame if you were spoken of badly because of following Christian principles. No, wait. (mat 5:10-12)

1 PETER 3:14
“But even if YOU should suffer for the sake of righteousness, YOU are happy.

LUKE 6:22
““Happy are YOU whenever men hate YOU, and whenever they exclude YOU and reproach YOU and cast out YOUR name as wicked for the sake of the Son of man.”

JAMES 1:2
“Consider it all joy, my brothers, when YOU meet with various trials,”

1 PETER 4:14
“If YOU are being reproached for the name of Christ, YOU are happy, because the [spirit] of glory, even the spirit of God, is resting upon YOU.”

If your life is easy and you have no trials because of your Bible based stance, perhaps you should question your life and your stance.

[david]

Quote

Hi, David has judged that to have a joyous reunion with family on 25th December is a heinous crime.

Quote please.

[charity]

Quote (david @ Feb. 12 2007,21:01)

Quote When Im asked what are you doing for christmas? Are you ready have you done all your shoping? I tell a truthful report gifts a good blessed to give everyday Then you become the grinch thats spoiling christmas But how can I explain the sadness inside it is truly enough It would be a shame if you were spoken of badly because of following Christian principles.  No, wait.  (mat 5:10-12) 1 PETER 3:14 “But even if YOU should suffer for the sake of righteousness, YOU are happy. LUKE 6:22 ““Happy are YOU whenever men hate YOU, and whenever they exclude YOU and reproach YOU and cast out YOUR name as wicked for the sake of the Son of man.” JAMES 1:2 “Consider it all joy, my brothers, when YOU meet with various trials,” 1 PETER 4:14 “If YOU are being reproached for the name of Christ, YOU are happy, because the [spirit] of glory, even the spirit of God, is resting upon YOU.” If your life is easy and you have no trials because of your Bible based stance, perhaps you should question your life and your stance.

Thanks david

Father Abraham obeyed to weight a balance hearing his heart had arrived prepared to do whatever God wanted him do

Nehemiah consumed with guilt continued to sacrifice lives
to feel he was obeying

I suffer much by the being handed over to Law for grace and mercy

And that is good that I turn no one away from the law
Yet if the Law has not served its purpose a man will turn back towards it.

charity

[NickHassan]

Hi charity,
Nehemiah was a servant of God. We do not criticise servants less we reflect on their Master.

[quitarguingoverstupidstuff]

I apologize to everyone I may have offended in these forums.

Please don't look at me as an example of what a JW is, I haven't been one in over 10 years.

Anyway, I'm sorry for anyone in these forums that I've upset. I'm going to get my life on track, so I will no longer be joining in on these conversations for quite some time, if ever again.

I don't want my opinions to offend anymore people, so again I apologize to all.

The complete board is back to being your's Nick……………may your efforts of spreading “your” truth bring you all the happiness you can get from it.

And to anyone on this site that bashes the witnesses, please remember this, It's not the witnesses you are bashing, but Jehovah.

And to all you “born again” Christians who love using Jesus name……..please think about this info:

God’s name is Jehovah

“We do not say that “Jehovah” is the correct pronunciation of God's name. For that matter, neither is “Jesus” the correct pronunciation of Christ's name. But according to the Aramaic language which Christ and his apostles spoke, his name was pronounced “Yeshu'a”……. But “Jesus” is only our colloquial way of pronouncing his name, and we do not find fault with you for using it instead of Yeshu'a.

It might be added here what the meaning of the Son of God's name “Jesus” is, whilst he dwelt on earth as a man, as used by all translations. According to Weymouth this name means “Jehovah is Salvation.”(The New Testament in Modern Speech, ftnote 21 under Matthew 1:21.) He is entirely right. So every time anyone uses this name, Jesus, (which is not the original pronunciation of it in the 1st century) he is using and supporting a form of The Divine Name JEHOVAH

“Those who reject the English “Jehovah” and insist on using the Hebrew pronunciation[Yahweh] would do well to ask themselves why they say “Jesus Christ,” when that was not the way his name was pronounced in Hebrew. That is the English way, derived from the Greek language. In Hebrew, Jesus would be closer to “Yehshua” and Christ would be “Mash'edahh.” So, as we say “Jesus Christ” in the English language, we also say “Jehovah,” both being correct when speaking English.”

I again apologize to everyone I may have offended….

My only request was that you quit arguing over stupid stuff, and focus on the more important issues in these last days, but even I can't seem to stop arguing, so I'm bowing out to go do what I know I need to do to get my life back on track.

There's no need to respond to my messages anymore, because I'm now saying good buy to you all…………….

May all of your searches for “truth” bring you to what it is you are searching for.

Peace to all….I'm out!

[Debra]

Goodby Q
May the Grace of our Lord Yeshua be with you.
God bless.

[NickHassan]

Hi ,
Christmas and easter are no nos but they do celebrate a solemn observance.
From their site ;

“More than 14 million attended the 1999 annual commemoration of Christ's death, the religion's most sacred observance”

Why celebrate the DEATH of JESUS??

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Here is the official instructions on how not to celebrate Christmas david from the official website.

For those who don't celebrate Christmas,
respect and good communication are key

The first Christmas that Chris Hanft did not celebrate with her family was a little tense, she recalls. “I basically disappeared for the day,” she said. But that was 17 years ago. Now Hanft, who is one of Jehovah's Witnesses, and her parents, who are not, get through the holiday season without a problem.

“Once they realize that you are not abandoning the family, they feel better,” Hanft said. “My mom and dad have been very good about that. Out of respect for me, they don't say, 'I wish we could celebrate it together.'”

At the same time, the Hanfts make an effort to organize a non-holiday-related family gathering at least once a year. “The thing you value the most is not the presents or Santa, it's getting together,” Hanft said. “And you can still do that.”

Each December, while most Americans are decorating their homes with trees and lights, shopping for gifts, and sharing Christmas greetings, more than one million Jehovah's Witnesses in the United States choose not to participate. Jehovah's Witnesses, who are Christians, don't celebrate the holiday because of the non-Christian origins of many holiday traditions.

How can celebrators tactfully interact with noncelebrators at school, at work, or within the family? Jehovah's Witnesses have produced a brochure, Jehovah's Witnesses and Education, to help teachers understand their Witness students. And the following general points can help anyone:

Ask questions. Jehovah's Witnesses are happy to explain how they feel about some suggested activity, as well as the reasons for their beliefs.

Give gifts at other times. Jehovah's Witnesses give and accept gifts throughout the year, not simply when a person is socially expected to do so.

Find other ways for families to spend time together. Jehovah's Witnesses enjoy parties, picnics, weddings, anniversaries, family meals and other events throughout the year.

Remember that millions of people don't celebrate Christmas. Many Buddhists and Hindus and most Jews and Muslims do not celebrate Christmas. Even among Christians, Christmas customs have not always been as popular as they are today. First-century Christians didn't celebrate Christmas. It was banned in England and parts of the American colonies during the 1600s. During the 1800s many Americans viewed it as a social threat”

Whew. At last clear guidelines.

[kenrch]

I don't celebrate Christmas because it's just a reason to party, at least that's the way I used to look at it. However if I would gather with my family (and I don't) on Christmas day to break bread and they know what I believe and know about Christmas they would understand.

If I would break bread on Dec. 25th with my family would that mean that I'm worshipping a sun god?

1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or on earth; as there are gods many, and lords many;
1Co 8:6 yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him.
1Co 8:7 Howbeit there is not in all men that knowledge: but some, being used until now to the idol, eat as of a thing sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
1Co 8:8 But food will not commend us to God: neither, if we eat not, are we the worse; nor, if we eat, are we the better.

Paul says hey you know who's God and who's Lord so the food offered to idols is just food. So for those who know the Lord December 25 is just another day and that's the way I treat it.

[david]

Quote

“More than 14 million attended the 1999 annual commemoration of Christ's death, the religion's most sacred observance” Why celebrate the DEATH of JESUS??

Quote please. Oh right. You did quote something. You simply mis stated it. The quote says that they “commemorate” Christ's death. They also memorialize it.
Nick, it was Jesus death, or his dying for us that meant so much. So we rightly commemorate this event, as commanded. His resurrection, which we are of course happy about (but was there ever any question) is not so much the focus. It is of course closely tied to his death. But if you check the scriptures, you'll see that is his sacrificial death that has such great meaning for mankind.

[Author]

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