- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Most who believe this do so, for they would rather face death
thinking that it is sleep and not punishment. Look at the people
today. Most who claim to be saved and unsaved alike look at death as if it is just
going to sleep. Talk about lies from hell. The world, by denying
that death can result in eternal punishment, does not fear death.
The world no longer fears God.When a person dies, his soul either goes to heaven or hell. If it
goes to hell, it is reserved there awaiting Judgement Day, at which
time, it will be cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone. This is
the second death, the death eternally in torment.If you would go back into the past, people always believed that if
they died in sin, they would find their souls in hell. Today, man
says that is just scare tactics and it is not real. God's word says
it is real and only in death will the unsaved find out that God's
word is true and men are liars. Many guilty claim they are innocent,
but once in hell, they won't claim they are innocent, they will
think about all the missed chances they could have had to get saved
so that they could have avoided this torment.Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Oh no. You've opened up the “heaven” discussion again.
H, you'll be fairly suprised to find that pretty much no one on here believes that anyone ever goes to heaven. Ever. No one.
There is a discussion on this called “heaven.”
Quote This is
the second death, the death eternally in torment.
This too has been discussed at great length. I'll find the thread.David, what is the sense of any of you being here if you are not seeking the face of God with the hope of going to heaven? There is a heaven and there is a hell. As God is my witness, you will know this once you are dead. For if you die in your sins, you will go to hell. You must be born again to escape the wrath of God or you will be forver dammed.
Nick, you claim to be a believer and don't believe men will go to heaven. Just exactly what God do you believe in?
Hi H,
You were asked to show us why you believe these things so we can share that knowledge. Why not take the opportunity as I am open to learn.Where do men go when they die Nick?
Matthew 5:3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.
Matthew 5:10 Blessed are those who have been persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.You do believe the Kingdom of God is heaven don't you Nick?
2 Corinthians 5 KJV
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
Hi H,
You may be right but we should look at the scriptural.evidenceWhat is the kingdom of heaven?
Is it the same as the kingdom of God?
Where is the kingdom of heaven?
If we are born again we can see the kingdom so is that in heaven?
Where are the mansions that Jesus went to prepare for us?
Are we among those under the altar in Revelation?
The final fate of man is on the renewed earth according to Revelation 21-22 and God dwells with men here.
The bride comes down to earth. Does that mean the bride, the new Jerusalem, was in heaven?
Do we then go to heaven and then return to earth?
Does that not sound like a comedown to you?Nick, I am not trying to push you away from God. I am trying to bring you to God. You passion is wonderful. I can feel you want to know him but your understand is misconscrued. When a man is born again, for the first time in his life, he is alive spiritually. When he read the bible prior to that, he was looking through physical eye. Once he became alive spiritually, the bible words became alive also. Jesus, the word, the quickening spirit made the bible come alive. When the man looks upon the words of the bible, he is looking with spiritual eyes and everything in the bible is now alive. And when the man reads those words, they become written on the fleshly tablets of his heart. They become part of him.
So is death sleep and does the soul cease to exist. Let us look in the book of Samuel.
7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and inquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.
8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.
9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?
10 And Saul sware to her by the LORD, saying, As the LORD liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.
11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?
17 And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbor, even to David:
18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day.
19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.
20 Then Saul fell straightway all along on the earth, and was sore afraid, because of the words of Samuel: and there was no strength in him; for he had eaten no bread all the day, nor all the night.
The woman was a witch who would contact familar spirits. When she was asked to contact Samuel, she was shaken because the almighty had something in store for her. Instead of a familar spirit, the soul of Samuel appeared. Now how can this have happened if it did not exist?
According to God's word, Romans 10:9 that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
All who died before Jesus had to confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord. It had to be done after his defeat of death.
Eph. 4:9 Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
1 Peter 3:19 in which he also went and preached to the spirits in prison,
When Adam sinned, the souls of men were sold unto death and with the price of the blood of Christ, they were bought back.
Hi H,
Indeed Samuel was woken from his sleep in the bosom of Abraham and even continued to prophesy.You know, of course, that the book of Romans was written to the saved,[see Ch 1]those who already had their names writ in the book of life, and they would be saved if they held fast to their confession. So this is not a new way of salvation apart from the way of Jesus. Paul was pleading with the jewish converts to walk in the Spirit and not try to return to the mastery of the OT Law.
So you understand that much. Fantastic. When you said you did not believe men went to heaven, I was starting to think you may have some JW teachings influencining you. Praise God you don't.
I believe the dead sleep.
“No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.”
(Jn 3:13)If no one entered heaven before Christ ascended back to the heavens, wouldn't all of humanity been residing in fiery torment? Scripture even says such figures like David did no ascend at death, then where was he; hell?
I do not want to raise problems, I really would love to hear alternative belief, I have alot to learn.
— jbl
Hi,
It is interesting that the rich man in Hades in Lk 16 is not there because of any specified sin, except not loving his neighbour and sharing his good things with God's beloved poor.Dear jbl,
You are not alone in believing the dead just sleep. It is a very popular concept. It helps people sleep better at night, but it only works until death's call. Death is forever for those who do not accept God's free gift of salvation. The time on this earth is a blink of an eye.
One thing is for certain, you will have no doubts once you are dead and the sad part is you have no more chances either.The only other thing I can share with you is that when I was born again, it was the more powerful, most wonderful, most beautiful, most loving, most forgiving moment in my life. It is just as the scriptures say. All things are made new. Everything in my life changed and has never been the same. I knew with all my heart that Jesus Christ is Lord.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
