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Ken,
Thanks again. I understand where you are coming from but I'm still wanting an answer from those who don't hold to the doctrines of Trinity or Oneness on whether or not Christianity is polytheistic.
As far as “where does it say that” about Duality -> Trinity, I don't know that it does. I do know that in formal creeds, the concept of God the Father = God the Son was first theorized. It was not until later that the Holy Spirit was added in to make the Trinity. If I had my speculation I would say they did it because there is a well established pattern of God working in threes.
Plus, go read several pages of the Trinity thread (the long one). Many pages are dedicated to Son being coequal with Father, but rarely is the 3rd member of the Trinity mentioned. Probably because that is even harder to prove than Son = Father.
Quote (kejonn @ June 30 2007,08:29) Ken, Thanks again. I understand where you are coming from but I'm still wanting an answer from those who don't hold to the doctrines of Trinity or Oneness on whether or not Christianity is polytheistic.
As far as “where does it say that” about Duality -> Trinity, I don't know that it does. I do know that in formal creeds, the concept of God the Father = God the Son was first theorized. It was not until later that the Holy Spirit was added in to make the Trinity. If I had my speculation I would say they did it because there is a well established pattern of God working in threes.
Plus, go read several pages of the Trinity thread (the long one). Many pages are dedicated to Son being coequal with Father, but rarely is the 3rd member of the Trinity mentioned. Probably because that is even harder to prove than Son = Father.
She needs some answers. Someone help her out!!! This whole topic confuses me.
I'm a “he” BTW
. My username is a contraction (sorta) of my real first and middle name 
.No offense taken BTW
.Well, its not looking good. Those who do not believe in the Trinity or Oneness are either in fear of the answer of whether or not Christianity is polytheistic or really do not know who Jesus is. I'm not saying I do other than what I know of him, but there is no escaping that the begotten Son of God is not God the Father and he is not an angel. Once you claim that he is deity, then you must accept that Christianity is polytheistic albeit in a different manner than other polytheistic religions. The only way you can escape it is if you claim he is an angel (NOT), or something else.
Me? I'm still not certain. But what makes us, Man, different than all of the rest of creation? Read this and let it sink in for a second
Genesis 2:7 – Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but what other part of God's works can claim this? He breathed into the nostrils of the formed man and gave him life. It is the same life we all have, and makes us unique in all of God's creation. Now take this unique creation, and add this
Luke 1:35 – The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
In addition we have this
1 Corinthians 15:45 – So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL ” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
Man is unique in all of creation not just in form but in life. Jesus then became the most unique of men because he was all Adam was but conceived of the Holy Spirit. What then is Jesus but the one man who has never sinned but who also was fully consumed with the Holy Spirit?
In the end, how then do we classify this Jesus?
Hi Kejohn:
No, Christianity is not polytheistic.
Ephesians 4:6
One God and Father of all (including Jesus), who is above all, and through all, and in you all (born-again believers).1Ti 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;1 Co.8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.1Co 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.Jesus is God in that he is the express image of God's person (Hebrews 1:3). When we have seen him we have seen God's character manifest through the life that he lived and does live.
John 14:9
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
14:10
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.I hope this helps. Also, the scripture states: 2Ti 3:12
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.God Bless
942767,
Just so I know, do you believe in the doctrines of Trinity or Oneness? Just want to be sure because I'm wanting answers from those who don't adhere to these doctrines.
If you do not, how do you explain Jesus in the hierarchy of Heaven? I am aware of all of the verses you quoted, but none of them really lets us know where Jesus fits in. Is he deity, yes or no? It really comes down to that if you don't believe in Trinity or Oneness.
Quote (kejonn @ July 01 2007,04:21) 942767, Just so I know, do you believe in the doctrines of Trinity or Oneness? Just want to be sure because I'm wanting answers from those who don't adhere to these doctrines.
If you do not, how do you explain Jesus in the hierarchy of Heaven? I am aware of all of the verses you quoted, but none of them really lets us know where Jesus fits in. Is he deity, yes or no? It really comes down to that if you don't believe in Trinity or Oneness.
Hi Kejohn:I don't believe in the doctrine of “trinity”. Please explain what is meant by “Oneness”.
Thanks
Hi Kejohn:
I researched what is meant by the “Oneness doctrinine”, and so no, I don't adhere to that doctrine either. I believe that the scriptures that I quoted show that there is but “One God”.
Jesus was conveived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the Virgin Mary. He is the “Only begotten” Son of God which means his body is God's own flesh and blood, but he is not God because of this. He is also the son of man in that he was born of a woman. He is a man. Not just any man, but nevertheless a man. He was born into this world an infant just as you and I without sin. The difference here is that he was tempted in every way just as we were and are but he did not sin, and we did.
His personality was formed through obdience to the Word of God. He is God in that he is the express image of God's person. But God is the source of body, soul and spirit (here I mean the personality that was formed within him by obedience to the Word of God).
I hope this helps.
God Bless
942767,
This is the direction I've been heading in this as well. Most people think we must either accept or deny that Jesus is deity. He is called “God” in many places, so this presents confusion. I'm just curious how others feel about this because I think it helps us see who Jesus is, and will enable us to shed the shackles of man-made doctrines. This is why I am attempting to methodically show through scripture who Jesus is, because I think that most who defend or refute Trinity don't really focus on this this.
Thanks!
BTW, maybe I should rename this to “Is Christianity henotheistic”. Sorry for the confusion! From wikipedia
Henotheism (Greek εἷς θεός heis theos “one god”) is a term coined by Max Müller, to mean devotion to a single “God” while accepting the existence of other gods. Müller stated that henotheism means “monotheism in principle and a polytheism in fact.” He made the term a center of his criticism of Western theological and religious exceptionalism (relative to Eastern religions), focusing on a cultural dogma which held “monotheism” to be both fundamentally well-defined and inherently superior to differing conceptions of God.
Although most Christians adamantly label themselves as monotheists, some argue that Christianity is properly a form of henotheism. Most forms of Christianity include the belief in a Christian Godhead consisting of God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), and God the Holy Spirit, with God the Father as the “source” (Greek arche) of the other two. However, Trinitarian Christians strongly reject the belief that the Trinity represents three distinct gods. Rather, they describe the three persons as participating in a single divine “substance”, thus being “in essence” one God. The Council of Nicaea (325) affirmed that God was one substance (Greek ousia, or “essence”) expressed in three subsistences (Greek hypostases, often rendered “persons”).
Hi kj,
Scripture calls others gods.
But for us there is one God.1Cor 8
” 6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”Nick,
You mentioning Satan in relation to the word “god” made me recall something that seems of great interest. We know that Satan had access to the throne of Yahweh (Job 1:6, 2:1). He would have known that one of the 3 persons of the triune God had departed and come to earth and would have known that he had no power over Yahweh. Why then did he even attempt to tempt the 2nd member of the Trinity? Was it all a show? That is ludicrous.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 02 2007,11:03) Hi ACC,
Scripture calls satan the god of this world.
Is he God too?
No!!! I never said he was.
Quote (kejonn @ July 03 2007,00:18) Nick, You mentioning Satan in relation to the word “god” made me recall something that seems of great interest. We know that Satan had access to the throne of Yahweh (Job 1:6, 2:1). He would have known that one of the 3 persons of the triune God had departed and come to earth and would have known that he had no power over Yahweh. Why then did he even attempt to tempt the 2nd member of the Trinity? Was it all a show? That is ludicrous.
I believe that it's because Satan has a knack for attempting the impossible against all odds.Just my opinion. Please give yours.
ACC, it would have to be just an opinion. Satan knows that his only recourse is to pull down every person he can, therefore keeping them from God's presence.
1 Peter 5:8 – Be of sober spirit, be on the alert Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
Satan knows full well that he cannot withstand God directly but he also knows that our free will and flesh make us weak. I find it interesting that James makes this statement:
James 4:7 Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
If we can submit ourselves to God and resist the devil as mere humans with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, why then would Satan even try to tempt 1/3 of the triune God?
Another interesting quote concerning demons (of whom the devil is supposedly the leader) is this one:
James 2:19 (NKJV) – You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!
The demons should know more so than we that there is but one God, why are we so confused? And why do some demons only refer to Jesus as the Son of God (Matthew 8:29, Luke 4:41) if they believe there is just one God?
Hi kj,
Men are confused because Satan has successfully confused them using their love of rebellion.
The greatest victories he has won areto deny God is One and
to deny Christ is the son of God and
to separate God from His Spirit as another person
attempt to show the nature of God changed with the coming of the Son of God.Lovers of scriptural truth will see through this nonsense.
God allows us to be tested in this way
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