Is belief in the Trinity essential for salvation?

[NickHassan]

Hi k77,
We must believe in the Son of God because God demands we do. Jesus also confirmed it

Jn3
14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
….
33He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Jn14
1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

[NickHassan]

Hi K77,
Jesus is a vessel for God. So can we be. We follow him.

God manifested fully in him.
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

God can also be in us by His Spirit.

Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

[NickHassan]

Hi k77
You ask
“If we say Jesus as a God in himself and we chose to follow Jesus and believe in Him death/resurrection, aren't we braking the first commandment? Wouldn't we be putting another god before God the Father? ”

God is one.
God is the Father.
God raised Jesus to show he was the anointed one.
We must believe in and obey the anointed one of God to escape the wrath deserved and appointed by God against men.

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 05 2008,08:28)

God is one. God is the Father. God raised Jesus to show he was the anointed one. We must believe in and obey the anointed one of God to escape the wrath deserved and appointed by God against men.

Do you believe in the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit then in my eyes you believe in the trinity.

I see Jesus was just the anointed one in that break down. So Jesus was just a man or a prophet messiah sent by God to preach Gods will. What of the virgin birth the Holy Spirit conception? Jesus would have to be more than just the anointed one.(If I missed read one of your remarks forgive me )

Then whom do you ask forgiveness to ask God to forgive your sins or Jesus. Jesus says there is no way to the Father but through me. If Jesus was not God then why would we have to go through Him to get to the Father. Are we putting Jesus higher than God the Father at that point? Why would we have to accept the anointed one as our Lord and savior to be saved why would God have just a man so important? There are men in the OT that God found favor in the same way but they were not to be the savior of all generations and did not conquer death and paid the price for sins.

Jesus said many times your sins are forgiven who can do that but God Himself? If Jesus was not God he could not of done that.

The reason the Trinity was not mentioned in the bible I believe it was just accepted. I will check my history again but I believe it as in the late 1800's that the belief of the non-trinity theory and the Jesus only theory actually became a new doctrine and dogma.

Be blessed my friends

[seek and you will find]

Quote (Keeper77 @ Mar. 05 2008,10:44)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 05 2008,08:28) God is one. God is the Father. God raised Jesus to show he was the anointed one. We must believe in and obey the anointed one of God to escape the wrath deserved and appointed by God against men. Do you believe in the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit then in my eyes you believe in the trinity. I see Jesus was just the anointed one in that break down. So Jesus was just a man or a prophet messiah sent by God to preach Gods will. What of the virgin birth the Holy Spirit conception? Jesus would have to be more than just the anointed one.(If I missed read one of your remarks forgive me ) Then whom do you ask forgiveness to ask God to forgive your sins or Jesus. Jesus says there is no way to the Father but through me.    If Jesus was not God then why would we have to go through Him to get to the Father. Are we putting Jesus higher than God the Father at that point? Why would we have to accept the anointed one as our Lord and savior to be saved why would God have just a man so important? There are men in the OT that God found favor in the same way but they were not to be the savior of all generations and did not conquer death and paid the price for sins. Jesus said many times your sins are forgiven who can do that but God Himself? If Jesus was not God he could not of done that. The reason the Trinity was not mentioned in the bible I believe it was just accepted. I will check my history again but I believe it as in the late 1800's that the belief of the non-trinity theory and the Jesus only theory actually became a new doctrine and dogma. Be blessed my friends

Hello and Welcome

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as we are called in the one hope of that calling.

verse 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptisml

verse 6 one GOD AND FATHER OF ALL WHO IS ABOVE ALL, AND THROUGH ALL, AND IN US ALL.

The trinity doctrine teaches that there are 3 and all are equal.
There was never any doctrine of the trinity taught to the first Christian by the Apostles. It was a man named
Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullian who first taught that doctrine in 193 A.D. when He became a Christian.

Peace and Love Mrs.

[NickHassan]

Hi k77,
You say
“Do you believe in the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit then in my eyes you believe in the trinity.”
Huh?
The Father is our God and Jesus is His Son and our Lord who is filled with His spirit.

[Lightenup]

Hello Nick,

You wrote:
Scripture states repeatedly that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
It says in no place that he is our God.

I write:John 1:18
18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
NASU

Who do you think is being referred to as the “only begotten God” if it is not Jesus since you say that Jesus is not called our God anywhere in the Bible.

What about in this verse:
Heb 1:8

8 But of the Son He says,

“YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER,
NASU

What son is being called “God” here if you say that Jesus in not called our God anywhere in the Bible?
I believe both of the above verses speak of Jesus. If you agree that this is speaking of Jesus then I ask you whose God is He? Is He our God, I hope so! Although, since He was born of God before the foundation of the world, He does not receive the same honor that only belongs to His Father who is ultimately the one true God.

The Father receives the most honor of anyone and then Christ receives more honor than everyone else including angels and man. Therefore by honoring Christ as our begotten God we are recognizing that whom He came from is greater than the son.

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
Jn 1.18[NIV]
8No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[a]who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

Footnotes:

John 1:18 Or the Only Begotten
John 1:18 Some manuscripts but the only (or only begotten) Son

Jesus is never called our God

[TimothyVI]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 05 2008,16:11)

Hi Mrs, You say “Do you believe in the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit then in my eyes you believe in the trinity.” Huh? The Father is our God and Jesus is His Son and our Lord who is filled with His spirit.

Hi Nick,
You repoied to Mrs. but it was K77 that made that statement.

Tim

[TimothyVI]

That was supposed to be replied. I still do not have edit rights.

Tim

[Anonymous]

I ask who does “him” in the passage sound like to you? Maybe Jesus?

Isaiah 43:7-11 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

8 Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.

9 Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.

10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

[Anonymous]

If you have time to to read the entire post and check the scriptures that I have provided you will see what I am trying to say.

2. The One True God

The one true God has revealed Himself as the eternally self-existent “I AM,” the Creator of heaven and earth and
the Redeemer of mankind. He has further revealed Himself as embodying the principles of relationship and association as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Deuteronomy 6:4
Isaiah 43:10,11
Matthew 28:19
Luke 3:22

The Adorable Godhead

a. Terms Defined
The terms “Trinity” and “persons” as related to the Godhead, while not found in the Scriptures, are words in harmony with Scripture, whereby we may convey to others our immediate understanding of the doctrine of Christ respecting the Being of God, as distinguished from “gods many and lords many.” We therefore may speak with propriety of the Lord our God who is One Lord, as a trinity or as one Being of three persons, and still be absolutely scriptural.

Matthew 28:19
2 Corinthians 13:14
John 14:16-17

b. Distinction and Relationship in the Godhead Christ taught a distinction of Persons in the Godhead which He expressed in specific terms of relationship, as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but that this distinction and relationship, as to its mode is inscrutable and incomprehensible, because unexplained.

Luke 1:35
1 Corinthians 1:24
Matthew 11:25-27
Matthew 28:19
2 Corinthians 13:14
1 John 1:3-4

c. Unity of the One Being of Father, Son and Holy Spirit Accordingly, therefore, there is that in the Father which constitutes him the Father and not the Son; there is that in the Son which constitutes Him the Son and not the Father; and there is that in the Holy Spirit which constitutes Him the Holy Spirit and not either the Father or the Son. Wherefore the Father is the Begetter, the Son is the Begotten, and the Holy Spirit is the one proceeding from the Father and the Son. Therefore, because these three persons in the Godhead are in a state of unity, there is but one Lord God Almighty and His name one.

John 1:18
John 15:26
John 17:11
John 17:21
Zechariah 14:9

d. Identity and Cooperation in the Godhead The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are never identical as to Person; nor confused as to relation; nor divided in respect to the Godhead; nor opposed as to cooperation. The Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son as to relationship. The Son is with the Father and the Father is with the Son, as to fellowship. The Father is not from the Son, but the Son is from the Father, as to authority. The Holy Spirit is from the Father and the Son proceeding, as to nature, relationship, cooperation and authority. Hence, neither Person in the Godhead either exists or works separately or independently of the others.

John 5:17-30
John 5:32
John 5:37
John 8:17,18

e. The Title, Lord Jesus Christ The appellation, “Lord Jesus Christ,” is a proper name. It is never applied in the New Testament, either to the Father or to the Holy Spirit. It therefore belongs exclusively to the Son of God.

Romans 1:1-3
2 John 1:3

f. The Lord Jesus Christ, God with Us The Lord Jesus Christ, as to His divine and eternal nature, is the proper and only Begotten of the Father, but as to His human nature, He is the proper Son of Man. He is therefore, acknowledged to be both God and man; who because He is God and man is “Immanuel,” God with us.

Matthew 1:23
1 John 4:2
1 John 4:10
1 John 4:14
Revelation 1:13
Revelation 1:17

g. The Title, Son of God Since the name “Immanuel” embraces both God and man in the one Person, our Lord Jesus Christ, it follows that the title, Son of God, describes His proper deity, and the title, Son of Man, His proper humanity. Therefore, the title Son of God, belongs to the order of eternity, and the title, Son of Man, to the order of time.

Matthew 1:21-23
2 John 1:3
1 John 3:8
Hebrews 7:3
Hebrews 1:1-13

h. Transgression of the Doctrine of Christ Wherefore, it is a transgression of the Doctrine of Christ to say that Jesus Christ derived the title, Son of God, solely from the fact of the incarnation, or because of His relation to the economy of redemption. Therefore, to deny that the Father is a real and eternal Father, and that the Son is a real and eternal Son, is a denial of the distinction and relationship in the Being of God; a denial of the Father, and the Son; and a displacement of the truth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.

2 John 1:9
John 1:1
John 1:2
John 1:14
John 1:18
John 1:29
John 1:49
1 John 2:22,23
1 John 4:1-5
Hebrews 12:2

i. Exaltation of Jesus Christ as Lord The Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, having by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; angels and principalities and powers having been made subject unto Him. And having been made both Lord and Christ, He sent the Holy Spirit that we, in the name of Jesus, might bow our knees and confess that Jesus
Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father until the end, when the Son shall become subject to the Father that God may be all in all.

Hebrews 1:3
1 Peter 3:22
Acts 2:32-36
Romans 14:11
1 Corinthians 15:24-28

j. Equal Honor to the Father and to the Son Wherefore, since the Father has delivered all judgment unto the Son, it is not only the express duty of all in heaven and on earth to bow the knee, but it is an unspeakable joy in the Holy Spirit to ascribe unto the Son all the attributes of Deity, and to give Him all honor and the glory contained in all the names and titles of the Godhead except those which express relationship (see Distinction and Relationship in the Godhead, Unity of the One Being of Father, Son and Holy Spirit , and Identity and Cooperation in the Godhead) and thus honor the Son even as we honor the Father.

John 5:22,23
1 Peter 1:8
Revelation 5:6-14
Philippians 2:8,9
Revelation 7:9-10
Revelation 4:8-11

[Anonymous]

Ask all to remember 1 Corinthians 1:9-18 and ask yourself is Christ divided? How can we expect the world to turn to Christ when we are ourselves are in disagreement.

9God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

10Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

11For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

12Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

13Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

[Lightenup]

Hi Nick,

John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
NASU
Jn 1.18[NIV]
8No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[a]who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

Both translations correctly reflect that the one that is at the Father's side is called God because the greek word is Theos here.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Keeper77 @ Mar. 06 2008,00:52)

I ask who does “him” in the passage sound like to you? Maybe Jesus? Isaiah 43:7-11 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV) 7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. 8 Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears. 9 Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth. 10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. 11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Hi k77,
God is our only Saviour.
God is the source of all things.
God appointed Jesus to be a saviour for us.
He is not the source but the mediator and the vessel for God

Acts 5:31
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 13:23
Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

2 Timothy 1:10
But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Trinitarians often get confused between the Source and the Vessel.

[NickHassan]

Hi K77,
I agree agreement is the ideal.
You have not shown any teaching of a trinity in scripture.
So we should put aside such a speculative distraction and aim for unity in the revealed truth.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2008,03:22)

Hi Nick, John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.   NASU Jn 1.18[NIV] 8No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[a]who is at the Father's side, has made him known. Both translations correctly reflect that the one that is at the Father's side is called God because the greek word is Theos here.

Hi LU,
Jesus is never called OUR God.
Are all called THEOS our God?

2 Corinthians
Chapter 4
4 In whom the god [THEOS 2316]of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 06 2008,04:09)

Hi K77, I agree agreement is the ideal. You have not shown any teaching of a trinity in scripture. So we should put aside such a speculative distraction and aim for unity in the revealed truth.

I think I said that here:

The terms “Trinity” and “persons” as related to the Godhead, while not found in the Scriptures, are words in harmony with Scripture, whereby we may convey to others our immediate understanding of the doctrine of Christ respecting the Being of God, as distinguished from “gods many and lords many.” We therefore may speak with propriety of the Lord our God who is One Lord, as a trinity or as one Being of three persons, and still be absolutely scriptural.

Matthew 28:19
2 Corinthians 13:14
John 14:16-17

may be your version of the Trinity and mine are different. Read all the verses that I have quoted and see for yourself.

[NickHassan]

Hi k77,
Despite the devious work of theologians who claim to see glimpses of a trinity hidden in scripture none can show us God teaching He is a trinity anywhere in the OT or NT. So it depends wther you rely on them or God who wants us to be simple children, and not too clever.

2 cor11
2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
2Jn
9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

11For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

[Anonymous]

Isaiah 43:10

10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

How is this twisted?

Be Blessed

[Author]

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