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To all….. There are scriptures where the FATHER was Speaking (First Person) through Jesus. The one mentioned above and the one where it says “destory this temple and in three days i will raise it up”, and where it says “ALL the ever came before me were liars and thieves.” IMO.
love and peace to you all…………………………..gene
GB,
We must be yoked to Jesus.
He is the Lord and Master and the teacher.“without me you can do nothing”
Nick……Trust me on this, we must be YOKED with THE FATHER Just like Jesus is. The yoke on Jesus is the SAME Yoke that Should be on us.
peace and love…………………………….gene
GB,
Jesus called it MY YOKE but you disagree and would like to establish your own relationship with the Father and not the Son?1Jn1
3That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.Nick……The yoke on Jesus is the same Yoke that is to be on Us also , Look at what you quoted , “And truly our fellowship is with the FATHER, (AND) with His Son Jesus Christ. Same Yoke same Fellowship Brother.
peace and love……………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 05 2009,12:17) Nick……The yoke on Jesus is the same Yoke that is to be on Us also , Look at what you quoted , “And truly our fellowship is with the FATHER, (AND) with His Son Jesus Christ. Same Yoke same Fellowship Brother. peace and love……………………………………..gene
True!! Born of the Spirit ……. Jesus firstborn and the head ………Hi,
Baptism is of water in the name of Jesus and done by his brothers.[acts]
He is the only one who can baptise in the Spirit.[jn]Nick…….The baptism of the Spirit is given from the FATHER and poured out on Us. For the days are coming when I GOD) shall pour forth of MY SPIRIT upon all flesh. According to Peter that happened at the day of Pentecost. Jesus Himself was baptized with that same spirit in the Jordan it descended down on Him like a dove. That the baptism that give new life to all who have it, its from God the FATHER HIMSELF>IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene
Quote Gene,
Amen brother! But many still want to live under the old covenant.–thinker
Quote David,
Jesus said [at mat 28:19,20] that he would be with them until the conclusion of the system of things. Jesus was talking about the conclusion of the old covenant.–THINKER
I'm curious when you think the old covenant ended and when the new covenant began.
I don't think Jesus was talking about the conclusion of the “old covenant.” I believe he didn't use that word. Anyway, I believe the old covenant ended before he said those words anyway. Hence, he could not be talking about that during his last words on earth.“who has indeed adequately qualified us to be ministers of a new covenant, not of a written code, but of spirit; for the written code condemns to death, but the spirit makes alive.”–2 cor 3:6
HEBREWS 8:6
“But now [Jesus] has obtained a more excellent public service, so that he is also the mediator of a correspondingly better covenant, which has been legally established upon better promises.”HEB 8:13
“In his saying “a new [covenant]” he has made the former one obsolete.”To anyone who is concerned,
I am convinced this discussion about covenants is more appropriate in the covenants thread so I posted to David there.
David said:
Quote -THINKER I'm curious when you think the old covenant ended and when the new covenant began.
I don't think Jesus was talking about the conclusion of the “old covenant.” I believe he didn't use that word. Anyway, I believe the old covenant ended before he said those words anyway. Hence, he could not be talking about that during his last words on earth.David,
Jesus referred to at least two ages. Remember when he said that the man who committed blasphemy against the Spirit can never have forgiveness in THIS age nor in the AGE TO COME? The expression “this age” was the old covenant age and was the age Jesus was referring to when He said “I will be with you , even unto the end of the age”. The “age to come” was the new covenat age that continues til today. The disciples would have to be alive at the end of that first age. How could Jesus have said that he would be with them to the end of the age if they were to die long before the end of the age?two parts to the atoning work. According to the law of Moses the animal had to be slain and then the blood of the animal put into a basin. The high priest was then required to sprinkle the blood on the altar of the tabernacle.
Jesus was the Lamb slain for His people. So part 1 was finished. Then he had to enter the heavenly sanctuary and sprinkle the blood on the altar (figuratively of course) and complete part 2. Accordig to Ezekiel 43 the atonement was NOT completed until the blood of the animal was sprinkled on the altar. So the atoning work of Christ was NOT completed until He sprinkled His blood on the altar of the heavenly taberncale (Heb. chaps 8-10).
So the new covenant was fully instituted when Christ completed that intercessory work of the sprinkling of His blood. And according to Heb. 9 the destruction of the earthly tabernacle was the SIGN that God would give them undicating that the heavenly intercession had been completed. We know that the temple was destroyed in ad70. That was the SIGN that the new covenant had been fully instituted. Therefore, the new covenant age began in ad70.
But up until then believers had to be baptized because the true baptism by Christ's blood had not been completed.
thinker
Hi TT,
Jesus said this after his resurrection which began the new age.I believe that Christ is with his servants in Spirit till the next millenial age when he is with them physically as King of kings.
Eph2
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Then too in the following age when the kingdom is handed back to god.
Nick:
Quote Jesus said this after his resurrection which began the new age. Where did Jesus say that the new age began with His resurrection? Hebrews 9 says that the destruction of the earthly tabernacle was the “sign” that the new order had come
Quote …the Holy Spirit signifying this, that the way into the Holiest of all was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. it was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to conscience, concerned with only foods and drinks, various baptisms, and external ordinances until the time of the new order (or age) (Heb. 9:9-10). The renting of the veil while Christ was on the cross was the “sign” that Jesus had free access to go into the heavenly sanctuary to complete the atonement. So the destruction of the tabernacle itself was the “sign” to God's people that the atonement was completed and that they had free access to God. In the meantime they had to be baptized with water UNTIL they became altogether clean by the sprinkling of His blood.
The taberncale was destroyed when the temple was destroyed in ad70. Therefore, the new covenant age was fully instituted then. It is not possible that the new covenant age began with Christ's resurrection. Jesus had to ascend to the heavenly taberncale and accomplish the second part of the atoning work.
thinker
Hi TT,
Jesus said in mt26
27And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you;28for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.
Thinker asked Nick:
Quote Where did Jesus say that the new age began with His resurrection? Nick replied:
Quote Jesus said in mt26
27And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you;28for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.
Nick,
First, I fail to see how the verse you provided proves that the new covenant age began with the resurrection. Second, the expression “new covenant in My blood” would include the sprinkling in the heavenly sanctuary. The law of Moses required this and Ezekiel repeated it,Quote These are the ordinances for the altar on the day it is made, for sacrifice burnt offerings on it, and for the sprinkling blood on it. You shall take a young bull for a sin offering to the priests, the Levites, who are of the house of Zadok, who approach Me to minister to me, says the LORD God. You shall take some of its blood and put it on the four horns of the altar, on the four corners of the ledge, and on the rim around it; thus you shall CLEANSE it and make ATONEMENT for it (Ezek 43:18-20). So the sprinkling of the bull's blood on the altar is what actually made the atonement. Jesus knew the law of Moses. He knew that the mere spilling of His blood alone was not what accomplished the atonement. He knew that the blood had to be applied. It had always been that way. Only those who had blood applied on their door posts escaped the plague in Egypt.
Therefore, when Jesus said “this is the new covenant in My blood” He was looking forward to fulfilling the law of Moses by the sprinkling of it on the altar of the heavenly tabernacle. IT WAS THE SPRINKLING OF THE BLOOD THAT ACCOMPLISHED THE ATONEMENT. AND WITHOUT THE SPRINKLING THERE IS NO NEW COVENANT AT ALL!
Speaking about the high priest's entrance into the Holy of Holies Hebrews says this,
Quote …and behind the second veil, the part of the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all…the high priest entered…alone once per year NOT without blood (Heb. 9:1-7) So Jesus also entered the heavenly Holy of Holies NOT without blood.
Quote To the pilgrim's of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the spirit, for obedience and the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus (1 Peter 1:1-2) Honestly Nick, your reference to Christ's “new covenant in My blood” statement lends no support whatsoever for your theory that the new covenant age began with Christ's resurrection. The atonement was not completed until He entered the heavenly sanctuary and sprinkled His blood on the altar. When that was accomplished the new covenant age came and God's people no longer needed to wash their bodies with water. Water baptism was displaced. Their bodies had been washed by the “pure water” of Jesus' blood (Heb. 10:22).
thinker
Hi TT,
So Jesus proclaimed the new covenant after his resurrection.
He shared the cup there and then with his brothers.
Paul reinforced it's meaning in 1Cor 10
” 16The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?17For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.
18Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?
19What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
20But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
21Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. “
Hi TT,
Ephesians 3:5
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;So the Spirit was revealing things to the apostles and prophets.
That Spirit is the Spirit of Christ so it could be said that the anointing of Jesus Christ began the age.Hi TT,
But the Spirit of life was not poured out on the sons of God till Jesus returned to heaven.
Since the life is in the blood the thought that the new covenant began then is worth testing.Hi TT,
The age before Jesus required certain ceremonial washings showing in type baptisms but there is no indication in the teachings of the apostles that baptism in water is no longer required in this age.
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