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Nick……….thethinker is right we have been over this before, read Heb 6:1 and be happy with that.
love and peace………………………..gene
Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 24 2009,22:56) Nick said: Quote Some think God has changed his mind and the water baptisms shown in Acts at salvation are now unnecessary.
Nick,
Remember to include the author to the Hebrews among those who have discarded baptism (6:1). We have been over this already and it would serve you better if you replied specifically to challenges given to you.thinker
Gene Balthrop wrote:Quote Posted on Jan. 24 2009,23:36Nick……….thethinker is right we have been over this before, read Heb 6:1 and be happy with that. If your interpretation is true all that would say is the writer of Hebrew was bringing a gospel other than the one taught to Christians at first and that writer would stand condemned.
Galatians 1:8(NIV) reads as:
Quote 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! Be careful not to allow Satan to mislead you using scripture for he will certainly try just as he did with Jesus.
I read Hebrews 1:6(NIV) and saw no mention of immersion in the scripture so where are you getting that it is talking about baptism?
I do on the other hand agree with the writer that teaching those that are in Christ Jesus about how to get in Christ Jesus,which involves more that immersion in water, is rather silly and they need to grow up and get on board the goal of being like God in true righteousness and holiness.
Hebrews 6:1(NIV) reads as:
Quote 1Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,[a] and of faith in God, kerwin posted:
Quote If your interpretation is true all that would say is the writer of Hebrew was bringing a gospel other than the one taught to Christians at first and that writer would stand condemned. Galatians 1:8(NIV) reads as:
Quote
8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!Be careful not to allow Satan to mislead you using scripture for he will certainly try just as he did with Jesus.
I read Hebrews 1:6(NIV) and saw no mention of immersion in the scripture so where are you getting that it is talking about baptism?
I do on the other hand agree with the writer that teaching those that are in Christ Jesus about how to get in Christ Jesus,which involves more that immersion in water, is rather silly and they need to grow up and get on board the goal of being like God in true righteousness and holiness.
Kerwin,
Paul said many times that the faith alone was revealed to him. One example of this is found in Romans 16:25-26,Quote Now to Him who is able to establish you according to MY gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began but NOW is being manifested…” Note that Paul said that the gospel he preached was his own [MY gospel]. He said that his gospel was “kept secret” and that it was “NOW being manifested”. Therefore, Paul's gospel is THE gospel. Paul's gospel was based in faith alone and therefore excluded all works including baptism.
Hebrews 6:1-2 explicitly says that repentance and baptism are no longer applicable. The “repent and be baptized” gospel was for Israel alone at the beginning. The everlasing gospel now is faith alone for all races of men.
The warning you give from Galatians had to do with faith alone. Let anybody who adds works to Paul's gospel be “anathema”.
thinker
thethinker……….Good post brother………………Pauls Gospel was not the exact same as Jesus', Jesus was sent to the lost Sheep of the house of Israel and no one else as He himself said. “I am not sent but to the the lost sheep of the house of Israel. ” as Chosenone said.
love and peace to you and yours……………………….gene
The Thinker wrote:
Quote Paul said many times that the faith alone was revealed to him. One example of this is found in Romans 16:25-26,
I assure you that faith alone is what it takes because out of faith actions occur such as when one has the faith to move mountains then a mountain is moved or when the man was healed at the pool of Siloam his faith let to him dipping himself in the pool. There were those among the people the believed as you do and James rebuked them by saying “faith without works is dead”. Paul’s point is that works without faith is equally dead.
The Thinker wrote:
Quote Note that Paul said that the gospel he preached was his own [MY gospel]. He said that his gospel was “kept secret” and that it was “NOW being manifested”.
So according to you Paul is a false teacher as Jesus clearly stated that if your righteousness does not surpass that of the Pharisees then you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:20. On the other hand Paul if anything was more extreme than Jesus for he states quite clearly to the Galatians
Galatians 5:16(NIV) reads:
Quote So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.
Or in other words live by the Spirit and you will not sin.. About living by the sinful nature he states that those who choose to do so will not enter the kingdom of God. It is self-evident that the way one lives by the Spirit is by faith but you still will manifest the righteousness of the Spirit and that is why one must believe Jesus when he promises “Blessed are they that hunger and thirst for righteousness for they will be filled.”. Matthew 5:6(NIV)
Galatians 5:19-21(NIV) reads:
Quote The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Paul was right that the gospel was hidden until the time of Jesus’ resurrection and revealed afterwards since there was no way to be truly reborn in Spirit until Jesus’ death put the new contract between God and man into action just as it is written:
Hebrews 9:16-18(NIV) reads:
Quote In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood.
The Thinker wrote:
Quote Hebrews 6:1-2 explicitly says that repentance and baptism are no longer applicable. The “repent and be baptized” gospel was for Israel alone at the beginning. The everlasing gospel now is faith alone for all races of men.
I do see that verse two does mention baptism, the laying on of hands, and the resurrection of King of kings Jesus which is all about becoming a Christians in the first place and any Christian should be familiar with it and not need to be reschooled in it. In fact as the writer clearly makes the case they should not look back and need to repent and bepaptized after already being set on the path of pursuing true righteousness and holiness.
Hebrews 6:4-6(NIV) reads:
Quote It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
The Thinker wrote:
Quote The “repent and be baptized” gospel was for Israel alone at the beginning.
So according to you Peter was a false teacher who disobeyed God for it is Gentiles he ordered immersed in water.
Acts 10:44-48(NIV) reads:
Quote While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, “Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.
We are told by Paul himself that we entered The Messiah Jesus at baptism and that we are all one in him whether we are a Jew or a Gentile.
Galatians 3:26(NIV) reads:
Quote 26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gene Balthrop wrote:
Quote thethinker……….Good post brother………………Pauls Gospel was not the exact same as Jesus', Jesus was sent to the lost Sheep of the house of Israel and no one else as He himself said. “I am not sent but to the the lost sheep of the house of Israel. ” as Chosenone said.
I am certainly not seeing the logic behind that argument because whether you are teaching the gospel to the Jews or the gentiles you can be teaching the same gospel. On the other hand there is certainly a difference between the time of Jesus preaching the gospel and the time of Paul preaching the gospel for the people of Jesus’ time could only eagerly look forward to the coming of the new covenant with God because Jesus was still a live and thus the old cov
enant with God was in force while Paul did not even become a believer until after Jesus’ death and resurrection and thus taught people to enter the new covenant. That is why John the Baptist’s disciples needed to get rebaptised but they did get immersed in water.It is true though that it is God grace that saves us for it is God grace that fills us with faith in Him and it is through that faith that His works manifest in our flesh. I will also say with complete confidence if you have no works then you have no faith for God is faithful. I ask again “was it faith or works that healed the man who immersed himself in the Pool of Siloam?”
Men, Brothers
I was invited or redirected to this topic by Kerwin who admonished me for saying that Christian baptism is symbolic, and not a miracle occurring when the bathing in water actually transports us to being dead and burried with Christ. And after reading a number of pages in this topic, all I see are people smiting each other with scripture after scripture, each attempting to tear each other down in an effort to prove the superiority of their own knowledge, while he that divides looks on at us from his place of sand in satisfaction with his work . Some are saying “I am saved because I was baptised in the name of Jesus Christ”, while others say ” no, I am saved by virtue of my faith', yet again another says it is by God's Grace, or “my works prove me saved”.
Dont you not know we are told by our Lord and Apostles that we will be saved by all these things. Yet each has it's place and time. For the days of christian behavour being governed by ritual and legal arguement in the division of meaning are gone, which is why many of you left the denominations in the first place. You yourself know that it was through practising these very things to excess that the Jews missed the Kingdom as it passed them by like the wind. Our Apostle Paul forewarned us of the passing of miraculous occurrences among us in telling us that all that would remain would be faith, love and hope, and the most important of these is LOVE (1 Cor 13).
Now if you believe that your baptism by so and so will save you, then well and good. Believe and begin loving. Or if you think your faith is strong, then move a mountain, the mountain of hate that wrings all the goodness from the sole so that it becomes suitable only as a residence for all kinds of evil spirits and thoughts. Do everything you do with Love behind it as it's source of power. For this is the true source, the very thing of which our God is made and that caused our Lord to sacrifice his perfect life for us. Have salt in yourselves is how our Lord said it, and restrain your tongue until it has been tempered with the seasoning of Christian maturity.
For I tell you what each and every one of us who has received the spirit knows deep in our hearts. It is that we can only be the Elect before we die. And we are not “saved” until our Lord Jesus Christ reads our name in front of his Father before the moment of resurrection, and we will then be the next to know.
May the undeserved kindness of Our Lord be with you
RS
Hi RS,
I am convinced every man is sure his own ideas are right even when scripture says otherwise. Risktakers will walk in their own light.But only an unwise man will put aside water baptism in the name of Jesus as unnecessary once he has read the book of Acts.
Rabsheka wrote:
Quote I was invited or redirected to this topic by Kerwin who admonished me for saying that Christian baptism is symbolic, and not a miracle occurring when the bathing in water actually transports us to being dead and buried with Christ.
Thank you for listening as this seems a more appropriate topic where we can reason about baptism and where I can argue the case I have in defense of the miracle of rebirth occurring when one is by God’s grace is immersed in water while having faith in their heart that Jesus is Lord and will keep his promise of filling one with righteousness.
I never considered your point that baptism transports us to being dead and buried with Jesus the Messiah as I was concentrating on the death of the old spirit and birth of the new which actually happens at baptism since scripture is quite clear that that is when we are reborn in spirit. I have two witnesses that support that conclusion of which the first is Acts 2:38 where Paul asked some of John the Baptist’s disciples if they had received the Holy Spirit when you believed which he later linked to baptism with the words “Then what baptism did you receive?” The second witness is from Acts 2:38 where Peter instructs those that believe to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus the King of kings and then promises that if they will do so they will receive the Holy Spirit.
Some point to other scriptures like Acts 10:47 where Peter states the household of Cornelius received the Holy Spirit just as the Jewish believers had before them and then urged they be immersed in water. Another scripture they use is Acts 8:16 when we are told that there were those who were immersed in the name of Jesus did not have the Holy Spirit come upon them until the apostles laid hands on them.
I believe that the confusion arises because we are confusing two separate events because of the term “Holy Spirit” which is used to label both. In the first case the term Holy Spirit refers to the rebirth of an individuals spirit to one created like God in true righteousness and holiness while in the second case the term “Holy Spirit” is used to refer to the Spirit of God by which He does his work. We know that King Saul was worked on by the Spirit of God in 1 Samuel 9:9-10 and yet he could not have entered the new covenant as it was not put into effect until Jesus died and was resurrected. We have a second witness in 2 Chronicle 15:1-8 where the Spirit of God came on Azariah son of Oded and he prophesized.
Like you I do argue that it is by grace that we have faith and through that faith God acts in our flesh to do his works. I also hold that if we do not do the works of righteousness then we do not have faith for God is faithful and does as he promises. There is more to salvation than being reborn in spirit as you must learn to live by that spirit and persevere in doing so to be saved on that day. Of course you receive and live by it by faith. I am sorry if I seem wordy but I cannot think of how to present my case with less words.
Kirkwin…….the Spirit of GOD was (ON) them in the old Testament, not (IN) them there is a difference. When we recieve the Spirit in us it never will leave us or forsake us, as Jesus said it will abide with you for ever, in the old testament the spirit could leave a person at any time as in the case of King Saul. Even Moses was told that the spirit that was (UPON) Him God would put (UPON) the seventy elders, but notice it was not (IN) them. One the enfluence is from without, the other the influence is from within. IMO
love and peace to you and yours……………………..gene
Kerwin said to thinker:
Quote So according to you Peter was a false teacher who disobeyed God for it is Gentiles he ordered immersed in water. Kerwin,
Peter was entrusted with the gospel as it was originally given to Israel. But Paul was given the gospel for all men of all races indiscriminately. Paul's gospel is FAITH ALONE!You keep talking about baptism by “immersion”. Wow! God is so little that He hasn't gotten beyond dunking persons even though some may inhale water in their lungs.
Please try to let go of that “law” stuff you cling to and get with God's NEW covenant program.
Your friend,
thinkerBrothers, Kerwin
I am not certain whether you read all of my posts over at “Context”, but the whole thing began when I said I was not baptised by them, being the JWs. Then a person without really reading what I actually had said heavily implied that as an unbaptised person I could not be saved. I then went on to say that I had been baptised (christened) as a baby and another told me that it was not good enough. My reply to this was to the effct that who were they to audit my baptism. For there are many who were baptised by catholic priests who have since rejected the denomination but still hold this baptism to account.
I have never said that baptism was nothing. Never may that happen. And the scriptures you quote above are inspired and good, and you are right when you say that confusion can arise between the bestowing of holy spirit and the rebirth to a new spirit we go through when baptised. I do not dispense to myself any of these things. But notice the variations in sequences in these scriptures. Which demonstraits one thing, as I said – do not become obsessed with the legalistic ritual.
But what I have said is that of all the things that make us Christian, the most important is Love. Unfortunately, baptism does not protect us from the ever present desire in our flesh to fall back. Millions and millions have been baptised only to waste it's gift and indeed end up grieving the holy spirit and it does leave, and from which there is no returning. But it is our Christian love (undeserved kindness) that will stop that from ever happening.
Yes, Love and Peace
RS
So RS,
You would agree that the book of Acts should be our guide?
We have no scriptures that say what happened then was not for today too.Then in that book are adults whop understand baptised in water and are there any infants baptised?
Does anyone there respond to the gospel of Jesus Christ and not be baptised in water?
In whose name are they baptised?That would seem to the the scriptural approach.
God is not into rituals but does make certain simple demands of how we show our repentant faith to Him and the angels and men.
7I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
8Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?
9And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost.
10Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.
.
The Thinker wrote:
Quote You keep talking about baptism by “immersion”.
I speak about immersion because the root word for baptism as it has evolved from the Greek word baptisma that means dipping or washing in water. The word has just become confused over time as it has been applied to many methods of conversion.
The Thinker wrote:
Quote Wow! God is so little that He hasn't gotten beyond dunking persons even though some may inhale water in their lungs.
What you say here sounds like nonsense as you are accusing God of being little since according to you at one time he did command people to be dunked.
The Thinker wrote:
Quote Peter was entrusted with the gospel as it was originally given to Israel. But Paul was given the gospel for all men of all races indiscriminately. Paul's gospel is FAITH ALONE!
You are making up what you are saying here to justify your doctrine since it is obvious from Romans 6 that Paul is telling the church as Rome that they were reborn at baptism. There is nothing in scripture that states the gospel evolved over time though I have heard that from false teachers of law such as the Mormons, Catholics, and Muslims. Like you they are probably trying to justify the difference between their doctrine and that of those that have gone before.
As I have said before it is by the grace of God one has faith and it is through that faith that God does His works. Still if you do not have the works then you do not have the faith since God is faithful and will do as he promises. In short if you truly one you will have the other two.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Faith alone?
Even demons believe.If you read the last paragraph I wrote to The Thinker then you will see it is not me that stated that we are saved by faith alone. I believe that it is God that saves us from first to last, and not ourselves, for our nature is corrupt and therefore incapable of saving us by faith or any other way.
Rabsheka wrote:
Quote I am not certain whether you read all of my posts over at “Context”, but the whole thing began when I said I was not baptized by them, being the JWs.
I did read your post and even answered it. I considered what you were saying as small talk. From what you wrote I obtained the impression that you did not believe what the JW’s taught. So if the JW’s taught the true gospel, which they do not, and you got baptized by them then it would of done you no good as you did not believe. Those pushing you to get baptized were therefor either ignorant or presumptuous. I also want to mention that getting baptized into a false doctrine, which I have done myself, is of no benefit.
Rabsheka wrote:
Quote Then a person without really reading what I actually had said heavily implied that as an unbaptised person I could not be saved.
Context is important in this case. You obviously cannot be reborn in spirit without being immersed in water with faith in Jesus Christ and his promises in your heart but if you never heard or understood the true gospel you cannot be held accountable for hearing it. I am more concerned about being reborn in spirit than about being saved as God is certainly competent enough to determine the later without my arrogant input as me telling God who is and is not saved would be arrogant.
Rabsheka wrote:
Quote My reply to this was to the effect that who were they to audit my baptism.
I have not heard the doctrine the lady in question teaches so I cannot say if all of her doctrine is correct but she did have a point that a child is incapable of truly understanding the message of the gospel even if they hear it. The real concern is whether you have been reborn in spirit and so entered the new covenant and a correct understanding about the gospel and so about baptism is necessary for you to do so. I think you are still searching for that and if I am correct then it is not the time for you to get immersed in water though I hope you find the true understand soon as I also hope for myself.
Rabsheka wrote:
Quote Which demonstrates one thing, as I said – do not become obsessed with the legalistic ritual.
It is certainly a snare to become obsessed with the legalistic aspects of the rebirth miracle but determine what is the difference between the legalistic aspects and what is not is tricky. There are certainly aspects that I am not certain with such as whether the Jewish method of immersion is correct or whether the one most commonly practiced by Christian sects is correct. It may well be that both are OK as Jesus’ command was immerse those who decided to make Jesus their Lord.
Rabsheka wrote:
Quote But what I have said is that of all the things that make us Christian, the most important is Love
If one lives by the Spirit that he or she receives at baptism then they truly Love as God desires but Satan has set up many traps to catch the careless and unwary. My hope is to navigate through those traps and false doctrines about baptism is one of those traps that has many variations.
Rabsheka wrote:
Quote Millions and millions have been baptized only to waste it's gift and indeed end up grieving the holy spirit and it does leave, and from which there is no returning.
Jesus spoke true when he stated many false prophets will come in his name and I am afraid that the vast majority of those that claim to follow him have chosen to follow false prophets. I hope they will realize their error and turn to God in truth but in the end if they can be saved then God will save them.
So if I am baptized by a Minister from the W.W.C. of God and later recognize some false ways they understand scriptures and even go back to believing in the trinity, my Baptism is not true. I do not feel that way at all. Since we are Baptized in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy spirit and are completely under water we are a new man in God. I also believe when the Minister lays hands on you and you receive the Holy Spirit. I know I did because the next day for me was amazing. God showed me so many faults, which I was not even aware of doing. Even tho I still fall short of the glory of God I have grown to be a child of God. I can go to the Throne of God through our Savior Jesus Christ and ask for forgiveness of my sins. Then all is well with my Soul. It is well with my Soul, it is well it is well with my Soul. We are under the New Covenant now amd sin is not imputed to us.The Covenant in the Blood of Jesus Christ.
Luke 22:20 ..This cup is the new covenant in My blood which is shed for you.” We have come out of all organization and prasie the Lord at Home. Come out of Her my People…….Peace and Love Irene
Cindy wrote:
Quote So if I am baptized by a Minister from the W.W.C. of God and later recognize some false ways they understand scriptures and even go back to believing in the trinity, my Baptism is not true. I do not feel that way at all. Since we are Baptized in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy spirit and are completely under water we are a new man in God.
The nature of Jesus is a significant issue and even though I believe the trinity tenet completely illogical. I have not idea what other Christology you believed since the World Wide Church of God now adheres to the trinity tenet. Originally I believe they followed a tenet where the considered the Son and the Father to be two persons of the one individual God but the Holy Spirit they considered to be non person spirit of righteousness. Like the trinity doctrine it is illogical since God cannot be tempted by evil and yet Jesus was even as we are. In contradiction to both those false tenets Jesus the Messiah is a human being just like you and me and it is necessary for us to believe that is true in order for us to enter the new covenant because we have to believe in the true Jesus and not the many false ones that Satan has caused to be taught in this world even as it is written.
2 Colossians 11:3-4(NIV) reads:
Quote But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough
The reason you must believe that Jesus is a human being with no advantage except his faith is that you must believe that he was tempted even as you are but without sin proving that if a human being lives by the spirit they will by the power of God stop sinning even as Jesus never sinned even to the point of death and beyond.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 26 2009,14:19) Cindy wrote: Quote So if I am baptized by a Minister from the W.W.C. of God and later recognize some false ways they understand scriptures and even go back to believing in the trinity, my Baptism is not true. I do not feel that way at all. Since we are Baptized in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy spirit and are completely under water we are a new man in God.
The nature of Jesus is a significant issue and even though I believe the trinity tenet completely illogical. I have not idea what other Christology you believed since the World Wide Church of God now adheres to the trinity tenet. Originally I believe they followed a tenet where the considered the Son and the Father to be two persons of the one individual God but the Holy Spirit they considered to be non person spirit of righteousness. Like the trinity doctrine it is illogical since God cannot be tempted by evil and yet Jesus was even as we are. In contradiction to both those false tenets Jesus the Messiah is a human being just like you and me and it is necessary for us to believe that is true in order for us to enter the new covenant because we have to believe in the true Jesus and not the many false ones that Satan has caused to be taught in this world even as it is written.
2 Colossians 11:3-4(NIV) reads:
Quote But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough
The reason you must believe that Jesus is a human being with no advantage except his faith is that you must believe that he was tempted even as you are but without sin proving that if a human being lives by the spirit they will by the power of God stop sinning even as Jesus never sinned even to the point of death and beyond.
Even tho Jesus emptied Himself and became like us, He knew what was at stake if He would Sin, that was the only difference between us and Jesus in the flesh. But we could never compare our self to our Savior so full of grace and love.
Yes He was tempted many times, that was never a problem I had.
I am under the new covenant shown to us in Luke 22:20 That is were I am and my Husband too, no trinity doctrine and if you would look around in the many post that we have produced you would know so. My Husband is big on prophecy. God has been good to us and we have grown much since the days of the W,W,C We have gone back for a visit with other members, but I could never deny what God has reviled to us.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Cindy @ Jan. 26 2009,13:48) So if I am baptized by a Minister from the W.W.C. of God and later recognize some false ways they understand scriptures and even go back to believing in the trinity, my Baptism is not true. I do not feel that way at all. Since we are Baptized in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy spirit and are completely under water we are a new man in God. I also believe when the Minister lays hands on you and you receive the Holy Spirit. I know I did because the next day for me was amazing. God showed me so many faults, which I was not even aware of doing. Even tho I still fall short of the glory of God I have grown to be a child of God. I can go to the Throne of God through our Savior Jesus Christ and ask for forgiveness of my sins. Then all is well with my Soul. It is well with my Soul, it is well it is well with my Soul. We are under the New Covenant now amd sin is not imputed to us.The Covenant in the Blood of Jesus Christ.
Luke 22:20 ..This cup is the new covenant in My blood which is shed for you.” We have come out of all organization and prasie the Lord at Home. Come out of Her my People…….Peace and Love Irene
Greetings Irene……The formality of the imersion marks a point in ones existance when we realize we cannot save ourselves,however, the desire for the baptism is through the grace of God…..And his calling to repentance….
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