Is baptism needed for salvation?

[NickHassan]

Quote (gollamudi @ July 02 2008,20:33)

I meant the conviction by the Holy Spirit to repent and accept Jesus' sacrifice on the cross for our redemption. Is it OK?

Hi GM,
Accepting the sacrifice on the cross is not a scriptural concept.

Even saying thanks seems to be not quite enough.

Thsi is the gospel
Acts 2
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[gollamudi]

I have already accepted this friend and taken this baptism twice what else you want me to do?

[97407]

Hi Nick!

Is it possible to be baptised in/with water and not receive the Holy Spirit?

If we take all of humanity and dunk them in water will they receive the Holy Spirit.

If your answer is yes, why not.

[NickHassan]

Hi 97,
Yes
The priority order of God is shown with Philip and the eunuch.
Acts 8
35Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

36And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

39And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Again acts8
14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

18And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

This is because we can all pray for this blessing.

Lk11
11If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

12Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?

13If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

[GeneBalthrop]

97….> you as well as i know God's priority order is what he wants it to be and some times its before water baptism and some times it after as scripture has shown .The batasm that counts is Spiritual baptism, When God said in the later days he would pour out His Spirit upon all flesh, He did not say he would pour out water on people did He. This difference is the deference between a Spiritual and a Carnal mind.

[NickHassan]

Hi GB,
You speak of the reign of King Jesus in Israel when He will pour out his spirit on them?[also Jl2]

Is 32
1Behold, a king shall reign in righteousness, and princes shall rule in judgment.

2And a man shall be as an hiding place from the wind, and a covert from the tempest; as rivers of water in a dry place, as the shadow of a great rock in a weary land.

3And the eyes of them that see shall not be dim, and the ears of them that hear shall hearken.

4The heart also of the rash shall understand knowledge, and the tongue of the stammerers shall be ready to speak plainly.

5The vile person shall be no more called liberal, nor the churl said to be bountiful.

6For the vile person will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the LORD, to make empty the soul of the hungry, and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail.

7The instruments also of the churl are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right.

8But the liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things shall he stand.

9Rise up, ye women that are at ease; hear my voice, ye careless daughters; give ear unto my speech.

10Many days and years shall ye be troubled, ye careless women: for the vintage shall fail, the gathering shall not come.

11Tremble, ye women that are at ease; be troubled, ye careless ones: strip you, and make you bare, and gird sackcloth upon your loins.

12They shall lament for the teats, for the pleasant fields, for the fruitful vine.

13Upon the land of my people shall come up thorns and briers; yea, upon all the houses of joy in the joyous city:

14Because the palaces shall be forsaken; the multitude of the city shall be left; the forts and towers shall be for dens for ever, a joy of wild asses, a pasture of flocks;

15Until the spirit be poured upon us from on high, and the wilderness be a fruitful field, and the fruitful field be counted for a forest.

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick….whats you point? I showed you that the Spirit was (ON) those in the old testement and not (IN) them. Do you want Scriptual proof Jesus read where God told Moses that He would take the Spirit the was (upon) Him and put it (upon) the seventy elders. in the old testament Gods spirit was on them and externally influencing them but in the new testament the Spirit was given internally big Difference. Even King David gave out Orders to Kill his enemies on his very death Bed , Hardly the spirit of God in Him. King DAvid was never converted in fact non of them were in the old testament.I doubt they will even be in the first resurrection.

[NickHassan]

Hi GB,

Jesus showed that the men of old were alive in God's eyes. Abraham saw the day of Jesus and was glad. He said they would be sitting down at the wedding feast.

Matthew 8:11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

The anointing seemed to have the same eternal blessing.
I have no doubt David was blessed in the Spirit of God.
He obeyed God and was led by the Spirit till the last

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick….Show us on Person that is mentioned to in the old testament thats going to be in the First resurrection. Pleas be specific if you can.

[NickHassan]

Hi GB,
I did.
The wedding feast is after the return of Jesus and the first resurrection.
Acts 19
17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

[gollamudi]

Hi Nick,
This verse talks about the wedding feast Rev 19:9

9 “Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who have been called to the wedding feast of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These words are true; they come from God.”

[97407]

Hi Nick

Acts 8:39 – The lord took Phillip away? Do you beleive that to be actual and Litteral?

I think your answer to my question missed the mark a little. Both of us know that the Holy Spirit can come to anyone whether or not they have been baptized with water. We have example after example.

I think your interpretation of needing both water and the Holy Spirit is because you beleive if you stray outside of what is written you are lost. You seem to beleive you can choose between litteral, symbolic, and prophetic language and assign it correctly each and every time. Do you think that is possible?

By the way I admire your tenacity. I know your job as a moderator is to keep the conversation moving.

The reason for asking so many questions is to stay away from direct confrontation. I find it much more pallatable.

[NickHassan]

Hi 97,
Yes,
Acts is a simple storybook.

Example after example?
I think Cornelius and his friends are the exception.
We cannot prove truth except by abiding in the Word. [2Cor 13.1-2]

[GeneBalthrop]

9704…..you got it brother. feel my pain.

peace………gene:)

[97407]

Hi Gene

I assume you don't take the scriptures litteraly. What is your
understanding?

To take Phillip litteraly, being taken away with the spirit, is to cause God to change the very atoms that exist in a body. It is to assume that the laws of the universe were suspended just to prove a point.

It seems to me to be a figure of speech. When Jesus called indivuduals satan, I dont think a litteral interperation is what he thought.

IMHO

[GeneBalthrop]

(7407….. Sone things i do take literally but Much of scripture is symbolic, parables, metaphoric , and literal also. Thats why so many can't understand it, it takes God's Spirit to get the proper understanding. It says we will all be taught by God.,

The word Satan means adversary and at that time Peter was acting as a adversary to Jesus.
Jesus did not mean Peter was the being Satan if there is even such a being, which i doubt.

peace to you and yours…….gene

[NickHassan]

Hi GB,
Did Jesus tell Peter to get behind him?
Why?

[GeneBalthrop]

Becaue he was an adversary to him he did not savor the things of God . So whats your point or is there any?. My point was he was not the so=call being Satan. As you tell us there is.

[NickHassan]

Hi GB,
Seems a funny thing to say to any person.

Matthew 16:23
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Perhaps he was speaking to a satan?

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick……..ya he was it was Peter according to Jesus. But if you understood what a Satan is then it would makes sense to you. Anyone who is an adversary is a Satan. Because the word means Adversary.

[Author]

Posts