- This topic has 4,343 replies, 85 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 3 months ago by
.
- Posts
Jodi,
You: The Greek word in the verse is Seautou meaning “thyself” “thee”
YLT John 17: 5 And now, glorify me, Thou Father, with Thyself, with the glory that I had before the world was, with Thee;
The Greek word for presence is Enopion which is not found in this verse, but some translators have chosen to add that word.
For Jesus to be glorified by the Father with the Father does not equate to him receiving glory when he went to heaven to sit at His right hand.
Me: Yes it does. You have not shown where it doesn’t.
You: The word “with” Greek para, also is rendered of 51, with 42, from 24,
Me:
https://biblehub.com/greek/3844.htm
para: from beside, by the side of, by, beside
Original Word: παρά
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: para
Phonetic Spelling: (par-ah’)
Definition: from beside, by the side of, by, beside
Usage: gen: from; dat: beside, in the presence of; acc: alongside of.Me: If you are at the right hand of God or if you are to be glorified with God, you are in his presence.
You: So the verse could be rendered as “of thyself” or “of thee” or “from thyself” or “from thee”.
Me: So, let us substitute those definitions for “para”
John 17:5 now, O Father, glorify thou me of thyself with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
John 17:5 now, O Father, glorify thou me of thee with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
John 17:5 now, O Father, glorify thou me from thyself with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.John 17:5 now, O Father, glorify thou me from thee with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Me: They all basically mean the same: Christ asks God to glorify him with himself.
Jodi:
You: What we are TOLD in this verse is that this glory was with God before the world was.
Me: So what. This is the glory that Christ received after he had ascended into heaven.
You: TC I read the passage with knowledge of prophecy, I read the passages knowing that Jesus KNEW prophecy that he knew he was to fulfill.
Jesus certainly knew of God’s promise since before the beginning of time. Jesus certainly knew the promise given to David about him, that his flesh would not see decay but eternal life.
Titus 1:2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,Me
: Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.Me: The promise is the baptism of the holy spirit and salvation because of it.
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Me: Notice Christ was at the right hand of the father exalted. He received the promise of the holy spirit that he could baptized us with the holy spirit, which he started to do so at Pentecost. I had shown you the glorified Christ whose face shown like the sun at noonday. Here is one more:
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Me: The lamb is the express glory of his Father. God is invisible spirit and you cannot see him. This glory is not being a flesh and bone body. You do denigrate the son of God.
Jodi,
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
https://biblehub.com/lexicon/2_john/1-7.htm
2424 Iēsoús – Jesus, the transliteration of the Hebrew term, 3091 /Lṓt (“Yehoshua”/Jehoshua, contracted to “Joshua”) which means “Yahweh saves” (or “Yahweh is salvation”).
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
John 1:14 And the Word (joined) flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Me: Emphasis in the parenthesis is mine. The Word became one with the man Jesus and is the expressed image of God. The Word is God (John 1:1) expressed with the body and heart and mind of the human Christ.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:…11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
Me: You exalt the angels and Satan above God in majesty
Hi TC,
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and HAVING received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear
YOU: This verse shows Christ at the right hand of God exalted. This shows Christ being in the presence of his father exalted or glorified. This should be enough to establish your error.
ME:Um NO it does not, nice try! “HAVING RECEIVED”, he already received the promise of the Spirit, as we are told directly in scripture.
These passages below speak against you as Jesus received his glory and power upon RISING,
Romans 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
Jesus was raised a spiritual body of glory and power, according to the Spirit of Holiness.
TC STOP denying 1 Corinthians 15:42-43 acting as if it does not exist or it is not speaking of Christ. APPLY God’s word with God’s word.
Hi Jodi,
You quoted me:
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and HAVING received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.Me: This verse shows Christ at the right hand of God exalted. This shows Christ being in the presence of his father exalted or glorified. This should be enough to establish your error.
You: :Um NO it does not, nice try! “HAVING RECEIVED”, he already received the promise of the Spirit, as we are told directly in scripture.
Me: Acts 2:33 shows clearly that Christ having received of the Father the promise of the holy spirit was by being present with him in heaven. Christ had to have received the promise of the spirit after he had ascended into heaven so the apostles and those in attendance could receive it.
Show me where it says that Christ received the promise of the holy spirit before he had ascended into heaven. Christ received the promise of the holy spirit to give to his church. That is the holy spirit with the humanity of Christ in it. That promise was then distributed to his church, the dead saints in the OT and the saints in the NT. So now we can die with him and resurrect with him (baptism of the holy spirit). For by man came death, by man came the resurrection of the dead (I Cor 15:21, John 5:25, 26)).
Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence…9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Christ went into heaven to be glorified and receive the promise of the holy spirit as I had shown you above and we show you below.
New American Standard Bible
1 Cor 15:45 So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.Me: Christ became a life giving spirit after he had ascended into heaven and glorified.
John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Me: The apostles received the holy spirit after Christ had resurrected from the dead but had to wait until Pentecost before they could be baptized with the holy spirit (the promise of the holy spirit that leads to salvation).
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Me: Nobody was baptized with water and baptize with the holy spirit as a result until Pentecost. Why, because that is when God almighty accepted his sacrifice for mankind. That is when Christ was declared to be king.
Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight…
Me: The Messiah received his glory after he was resurrected into heaven.Dan 7:12I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 13 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed…18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
Me: It was after Christ had ascended into heaven that he was glorified as King
Hi Jodi,
You: These passages below speak against you as Jesus received his glory and power upon RISING,
Romans 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared (3724) to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Strong’s Concordance (3724)
horizó: to mark off by boundaries, to determine
Original Word: ὁρίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: horizó
Phonetic Spelling: (hor-id’-zo)
Definition: to mark off by boundaries, to determine
Usage: I separate, mark off by boundaries; I determine, appoint, designate.
HELPS Word-studies
3724 horízō (from horos, “boundary, limit”) – properly, to set boundaries (limits) – literally, “determine horizons” (boundaries).Me: In conjunction and agreement with Dan 1:13 verse 4 could easily be:
Rom 1:4 And (3724 declared or appointed) to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, (1537: from or after) the resurrection from the dead:
https://biblehub.com/greek/1537.htm
Definition
from, from out of
NASB Translation
after (1), against (1), among (18), based (5), basis (2), because (10), belonged* (1), belonging* (1), depends (1), depends* (1), derived (1), grudgingly* (1), heavenly* (1), inspired (1), means (1), over (1), reason (1), result (4), say* (1), since (1), some (3), through (1), under (1), utterly* (1), way (1), without* (1).http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/sonship/sonshp08.pdf
Me: Yes, Christ was brought forth and determined or appointed to be the son of God with power by the resurrection from the death. In the baptism of the holy spirit, we can die and resurrect with him only after he was glorified with his father in heaven.
Me: Christ, the son of God was born from the death. An because of this he was later glorified as the son of God when he resurrected from the death. But it wasn’t until after Pentecost that you could be baptized with the holy spirit.
John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Acts 1:4…ye have heard of me 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Me: The Messiah gave the holy spirit to the apostles after he had resurrected from the dead but baptized them with the promise of the holy spirit only after he had ascended into heaven. God gave the holy spirit to the prophets and saints of the OT. The holy spirit went back to God when they had died. After Pentecost, they were resurrected spiritually into heaven.
Hi Jodi,
You:
1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
Jesus was raised a spiritual body of glory and power, according to the Spirit of Holiness.
TC STOP denying 1 Corinthians 15:42-43 acting as if it does not exist or it is not speaking of Christ. APPLY God’s word with God’s word.Me: I am not denying 1 Cor 15:42-43 but your exegesis as though it does not exist, because in truth and in reality, it does not.
You: Stop denying or even addressing that the dead resurrect out of body.
Me: You deny the below scriptures and how they fit in.
Phil 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. 23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: 24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.
Me: Paul was caught in a quandary between his mind in the holy spirit in heaven with Christ, being out of body now or being in the body and being with the Philippians to teach them.
2 Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Me: Salvation is complete when we have new bodies of the spirit.
Hi Jodi,
1 Cor 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
Me: Notice in the verses above, a seed (mind in spirit) comes before a body and can independent of each other.
1 Corinthians 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another… 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare (1131naked) grain (seed), it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
https://biblehub.com/greek/1131.htmGalatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
Me: We follow the holy spirit or we follow the flesh. When we follow the flesh, we sow the body of the flesh that is and not which shall be. For we shall be naked (1131)of our human bodies) It will die and decay. When we follow the holy spirit, we will reap a celestial body.
Hi Jody,
Me:
The resurrection is a spiritual one not a physical one.
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. ..39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day (period of time).
Me: This spiritual resurrection is a ongoing one every since Pentecost until the last day or end of this church age. It is not the last day is when all is accomplished because Christ raises up the just dead up until the first resurrection. The first resurrection is from Pentecost until his return.
There are only two types of bodies, heavenly or celestial or those of the earth. Christ was born and resurrected with a terrestrial body. He had ascended into heaven to the throne of his father where his body was changed into a celestial heavenly one that shone like the starts in heaven. When we die, our bodies corrupt and we receive bodies like Christ has. We will be like him.
1 Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It (our old terrestrial bodies) is sown in corruption; it (our new celestial bodies) appears in incorruption: 43 It (our old terrestrial bodies) is sown in dishonour; it (our new celestial bodies) appears in glory: it i(our old terrestrial bodies) sown in weakness; it is (appears) in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is appears a spiritual body.
Me: Our spirits, not our bodies are ascended into heaven at our deaths. Our death spirit minds are resurrected into life when we are baptized with the holy spirit. Those of the old testament had a rain check of animal sacrifices. They saints of the OT had the holy spirit in them until they died.
https://biblehub.com/greek/1453.htm
4. To raise up, produce, cause to appear;a. to cause to appear, bring before the public (anyone who is to attract the attention of men): ἤγειρε τῷ Ἰσραήλ σωτῆρα, Acts 13:23 Rec.; ἤγειρεν αὐτοῖς τόν Δαυειδ εἰς βασιλέα, Acts 13:22 (so הֵקִים, Judges 2:18; Judges 3:9, 15); passive ἐγείρομαι, to come before the public, to appear, arise”: Matthew 11:11; Matthew 24:11, 24; Mark 13:22; Luke 7:16; John 7:52 (cf. Winers Grammar, 266 (250); Buttmann, 204 (177)); contextually, to appear before a judge: Matthew 12:42; Luke 11:31.
Me: 1453. egeiró has to mean appear, otherwise 1 Cor 15:42-44 contradicts 1 Cor 15:40 below if it means “rise”.
1 Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom f God; neither doth corruption (our present bodies) inherit incorruption (our future bodies)
Me: Our fleshly bodies do not translate into spiritual ones. We acquire new bodies. “It” in 1 Cor 15:42-44 pertains to our bodies or our new ones,
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
1 Cor 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ?…
2 Cor 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle (temporary dwelling) do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed (our human bodies), but clothed upon (our bodies from heaven), that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
Me: When our present bodies dissolved, we would be found naked if not for the fact we have bodies reserved in heaven for us. This body is celestial and from heaven, not our terrestrial bodies here on earth.
1 Cor 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
Me: We will receive a body of the seed of the holy spirit, not our human spirits which will be no more, because their will be only the holy spirit as the life force for all (Eph 4:4).
Hi Jodi,
I have reconciled Phil 1:21-24 and 2 Cor 5:8 with 1 Cor 15:42-45. Now it is your turn.
It is appointed to all men to die once and for all. It is after this that we receive our new bodies.
Hi TC,
YOU: Acts 2:33 shows clearly that Christ having received of the Father the promise of the holy spirit was by being present with him in heaven. Christ had to have received the promise of the spirit after he had ascended into heaven so the apostles and those in attendance could receive it.
ME:TC you create contradiction and make the bible into a joke, you force a passage to fit your doctrine making other passages into a lie is truly bad form.
32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said, “ ‘The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand 35 until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” ’
Jesus was RAISED to LIFE, he according to 1 Corinthians 15 and Romans 1 upon that rising he received GLORY, POWER, and IMMORTALITY, he then appeared to many as a witness, then he went up to sit at God’s right hand. The one who has been exalted to God’s right hand has received the promise of the Holy Spirit, this does NOT SAY he received it upon sitting at His right hand, it says the one who received it sits at God’s right hand and we are told when he received it.
Romans 14:9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
1 Corinthians 15 says directly he received it upon rising from the dead, it does not contradict with Acts, having received life upon rising from the dead made the firstfruits upon rising from the dead, made eternal, the plan of God was for him to then sit at God’s right hand.
Anthony people were witness to his glory and power, he rose as the firstfruits.
4 and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 Corinthians 15: 43…it is raised in power
20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Our LIVING hope is THROUGH the RESURRECTION of Jesus Christ from the dead, where we are told that he rose with POWER, with GLORY, with flesh that was not allowed to see decay but eternal life.
TC how is it that in 1 Peter he has hope to receive something you are trying to say Peter already received? How is it that you say one thing but in 1 Peter the hope is through the glory found through the resurrection of Jesus, not in the glory he received later?
Hi TC,
YOU:Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight…
YOU: The Messiah received his glory after he was resurrected into heaven.ME: Resurrected into heaven? What on earth are you talking about?
According to 1 Corinthians 15 and Romans 1 he received power upon his resurrection from being DEAD.
YOU: Dan 7:12I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 13 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed…18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
It was after Christ had ascended into heaven that he was glorified as King
ME: What on earth are you talking about???? Jesus the Son of Man is returning on the clouds to set up God’s kingdom that he will rule until he has put all enemies under his feet and then he will turn the kingdom over to God. He did not ascend to heaven and upon that time he is glorified as a king. Our king is the firstborn not upon rising to sit at God’s right hand, but from being firstborn of the dead, DID YOU EVER THINK ABOUT THAT FACT???
GIVE ME ONE scripture that says made firstborn upon ascending to heaven sitting at God’s right hand made king.
He is CALLED firstBORN of the dead, having BEEN BORN of God’s Spirit from upon rising from the DEAD, having received the promise upon rising from the dead. He is judge and ruler over all, as he is a righteous judge our righteous king because he had suffered as we have suffered.
29 When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the cross and laid him in a tomb. 30 But God raised him from the dead, 31 and for many days he was seen by those who had traveled with him from Galilee to Jerusalem. They are now his witnesses to our people. 32 “We tell you the good news: What God promised our ancestors 33 he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm: “ ‘You are my son; today I have become your father.’ 34 God raised him from the dead so that he will never be subject to decay. As God has said, “ ‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.’ 35 So it is also stated elsewhere: “ ‘You will not let your holy one see decay.’
What was promised was fulfilled when Jesus ROSE from the dead TC. This passage speaks of him rising from the DEAD and Psalms being fulfilled, TODAY I HAVE BECOME YOUR FATHER. He was dead, and he was raised with God becoming his Father. He received upon rising from the dead the HOLY BLESSINGS promised to David.
Hi TC,
ME: What we are TOLD in this verse is that this glory was with God before the world was.
YOU: So what. This is the glory that Christ received after he had ascended into heaven.
ME:20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
Romans 1:4 and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.
I believe scripture TC, Christ received the firstfruit of the Spirit upon rising from the dead.
Romans 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
1 Peter 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Hi TC,
YOU:The resurrection is a spiritual one not a physical one
ME: Jesus was RESURRECTED to LIFE receiving the firstfruit of the Spirit with his FLESH not allowed to see decay, he received eternal life. Paul desired for his mortal body to be swallowed up into life, raised as Jesus was raised.
Jesus was raised with a body of flesh and bones, and he is said to be a heavenly man, a spiritual human, spiritual because he follows the will of God freely, there is no longer any temptation that he has to overcome, as he no longer has a mortal body.
Edj….But have you recieved the Holy Spirit yet?
Hi Gene
Don’t you read what I write? (Reply #821518)
I became a “Christian” at the tender age of 12 years old.
I was baptized with God’s Holy Spirit at the age of 15, and
water-baptized at the age of 57 at Nick Hassan’s prompting.____________
God bless
Ed Joops I realize I called you Anthony TC!
YOU: Our fleshly bodies do not translate into spiritual ones. We acquire new bodies. “It” in 1 Cor 15:42-44 pertains to our bodies or our new ones,
1 Corinthians 15 tells us that Jesus rose from the dead with a spiritual body, a body of glory and power.
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
ME: TC we are directly told that there is one kind of flesh of men that differs from other created creatures, each creature has it’s own body, this pleased God, He is diverse, creative, and intelligent with His design of each kind of creature He created.
Celestial has one glory and terrestrial has one glory. They EACH have their own glory TC, what is not clear about that???? You speak against what is written, you say that the terrestrial body of a human receives glory by becoming celestial body, something else.
We are told directly in 1 Corinthians 15 that the human body goes from weakness to power, from dishonor to glory, from being corruptible to incorruptible UPON RISING from the DEAD. Our weakness is that our flesh is mortal, it feels pain and can die. The body of FLESH goes from being able to die and decay to being a body of FLESH that is incorruptible, not able to die or decay.
Jesus DIED but his FLESH was pure it was without sin, God would not allow his FLESH to SEE DECAY, He raised it to LIFE, he quickened it and gave that body of FLESH immortality.
26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption…30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, ACCORDING TO the FLESH, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
TC, 1 Corinthians 15 and Acts could not be more clear. You fail to understand what the word spiritual means, and it has blinded you.
The mortal body of flesh asks for service it separates us from God. Through God’s Spirit working in Christ he was able to OVERCOME, he did not serve the will of man but the will of God perfectly, Christ was spiritual in his mind. He did not give into temptation that comes from having weak mortal flesh that fears death. He went to the cross denying his fear of death, he had faith, He believed God’s PROMISE that God had given to David CONCERNING HIM, which had been planned before God even made the world, that his flesh would die but it would not be allowed to see decay instead it would be brought back to life and never see death again. Jesus, in this body of incorruptible flesh that can now never die, he is free from temptation, his body is thus SPIRITUAL, there is nothing he has to overcome. Mortality swallowed up into life is that which Paul desired, to be raised as Jesus was raised.
Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Our hope is to be raised to life as Jesus was RAISED to LIFE. Paul’s hope was not in something that Jesus received later AFTER he rose from the dead. It’s all about Jesus being RAISED to LIFE, with his body of flesh not ever seeing decay, but being a body of flesh that can never die again.
There exists NO account of what you say TC. You want us to focus on something that is not given in any scripture, and that speaks completely against the direct scriptures that are given.
It is the same KIND of BODY, a human body of flesh, that goes from being mortal flesh able to die and dissolve into the earth, to flesh that can never die and thus will never decay. This is exactly why we are told in 1 Corinthians 15 that God gave us a body as He pleased, each creature it’s own kind, and each has it’s own glory. You want to say that we humans do not have hope for glory with our own kind of body, our hope is to become a different type of creature. This is nonsense!! We are going to dwell on earth and enjoy the sand under our feet, the sweet smell of flowers through our nose, the taste of fruit, the song from human voices praising God, we will see with our eyes the lamb playing with the lion. God’s plan is to restore earth, there will be no more briers and thorns, no more pain and suffering, and no more death. God’s plan is to bring us joy and peace. Our human fleshly bodies are a most magnificent creation, God does not want to destroy it, he wants to give it immortality.
I seriously cannot comprehend people who do not have hope for what I just said, I feel like you must be seriously lacking in a true relationship with our Creator. What are you thankful for? What is your hope in? Apparently some mystical future life. I thank our Creator for His creation and when it will be restored. I live for the day I can dwell on earth and take a walk in the woods and not bring my gun or bear spray, and be in fear of strangers that I meet on the path. Instead I will not live in fear, I will be walking down to the river with them. I will use my guitar and my voice, through the imagination God gave me, and I will praise Him with a song as I sit by the river.
To ALL,
1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
MAN here is Greek anthropos meaning HUMANS, a particular KIND of creature that God created having a certain kind of body of flesh.
Mark 13:26 “At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.
Jesus is STILL a HUMAN, MAN here is Greek anthropos, a particular KIND of creature that God created having a certain kind of body of flesh.
God’s plan from the beginning before He made the world was to bring eternal life to humans, and He planned that the MAN Jesus the Christ (anointed with the Spirit of Holiness), born of the seed of Abraham and David, would be the firstborn of many brethren. He is the SECOND MAN, the second HUMAN. The first human brought sin and death, he brought forth MORTAL FLESH, flesh of dishonor, weakness, corruptible, the second human brought righteousness and eternal life, IMMORTAL FLESH of glory, power, incorruptible. As Jesus was in fact as we are directly told RAISED with this incorruptible flesh, our hope is to receive it likewise. This all went down, we are directly told by the foreknowledge of God, who then gave this promise to the prophets throughout the OT since the beginning, Jesus is the firstborn over every creature, he has first place, he is head over all, he is BEFORE all creation as judge and ruler. He is firstborn of the NEW beginning. For God had told David that He would make his son His firstborn.
Very simple to believe what is said, that Jesus is the master from heaven, he is the second human. Jesus died, he descended to the grave, and then he ascended to where he was before, he ROSE to eternal life, where he was a witness for the people to show that God fulfills His promises, His promise He gave to David and Abraham concerning their SEED, so that we believe in the One True God. This second human sits at God’s right hand and he is returning to earth to continue to fulfill God’s will and plan that God had since the foundation of the world. Jesus will restore all of earth, as he has been appointed firstBORN of God over all of creation. God made humans in His own image, Jesus the SECOND HUMAN, is the image of God. As we are told we will all be God’s offspring, as Jesus is in fact, as the SECOND HUMAN, the firstborn of many brethren.
Hi Jodi,
I may address your nonsense again on the weekend again. It is heart wrenching to discusswith you on the things pertaining to our Lord because:
(1) You denigrate him by saying he is just a flesh and bone man in his glorified state.
(2) You denigrate him by saying Christ did not have the holy spirit of God until Jordan whereas John the Baptist had received it at conception.
(3) You denigrate him by saying he was just like one of the boys with flesh like ours and was resurrected from the dead with no blood in him.
I have plainly show you your bone head theory is not based on the bible, nor the spirit, nor common sense.
Jodi,
Again and again and again
Please reconcile 1 Corinthians 15:52 and 1 Thes 4:16-17 with 2 Cor 12:2-3, Phil 1:22 and 2 Cor 5:8 and show no contradictions. then I would like to discuss this with you. Taking all the scripture that pertains to the subject we are addressing is how we understand the bible. You have not really even given cursory attention to 2 Cor 12:2-3, Phil 1:22 and 2 Cor 5:8.
I have constantly tried to get you to address this, but you have avoided 2 Cor 12:2-3, Phil 1:22 and 2 Cor 5:8 like the plague. You come back later, after a lapse of time, and do not address this. Maybe you think we have forgotten about it?Prove to us that you are the prima donna here.
Hi TC,
Acts 10.38
You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how he went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil; for God was with him.
Not a divine being, not born anointed, not even of Bethlehem but a man of Nazareth transformed by the Spirit.
All his miraculous works were after the Jordan but you have your own ideas?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
