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Gene,
I believe water baptism changes us as a beginning though we don’t realize. The Spirit more obviously changes us, so I agree the baptism of the spirit is important, but no less than water baptism which is also necessary, the two go together even if years apart. The command to baptize in water is NOT only a public profession as we can be baptized in the middle of nowhere with only one person present. Water baptism is a rebirth and like every new born, we need to learn to walk and that takes time.
Does Terraricca believe that water baptism is a command to both Jew and Gentile.all
learn from the scriptures ;
Heb 10:22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. (truth)
Heb 10:23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.
Heb 10:24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.Terra has a good word and to me it mattereth not what ritual form baptism might take but God honoreth the broken heart and the contrite spirit he will not despise.God looks on our heart while many people look on the flesh and the letters that kill and bring condemnation.
AndrewAd,
What?
You sound like you are equating the gospel to the Law of Moses.
If you do not follow the letter of the gospel then you are following another gospel and Scripture does not speak kindly of those that teach another gospel.
Kerwin,
What? you sound like you are equating the gospel to the law of Moses!
You say”the letter of the gospel”? I’ve heard of the “letter of the law” but not the “letter of the gospel “as you say.You turn the gospel into law and damn everyone with it except yourself maybe?
Andrew,
Jesus is the one who teaches Christ to obey his words not me.
John 12:47-50New English Translation (NET Bible)
47 If anyone hears my words and does not obey them, I do not judge him. For I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 The one who rejects me and does not accept my words has a judge; the word I have spoken will judge him at the last day. 49 For I have not spoken from my own authority, but the Father himself who sent me has commanded me what I should say and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. Thus the things I say, I say just as the Father has told me.”
John 14:23-24New English Translation (NET Bible)
23 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and take up residence with him. 24 The person who does not love me does not obey my words. And the word you hear is not mine, but the Father’s who sent me.
I just repeat and paraphrase them.
In the gospel is the message of how to receive and live by the Spirit. The Law of Moses provides a guide of those behaviors that are evil.
Kerwin, I said “God honors the broken heart and the contrite spirit he will not despise”-that is a truly repentant heart is what God honors.And of course with repentance comes obedience.And you accuse me of legalism over that? or preaching another gospel? You quote these verses of Jesus which say nothing against what I said. My point was about being a legalist over baptismal rites and rituals.
AndrewAD,
I asked you to explain what you meant because I was hoping you did not mean what you sounded like you were saying,
If you read Acts then you know the apostles immersed people in water and in doing so they were neither adding of subtracting from gospels as Christians hold them to be true witnesses.
If anyone preaches that a repentant heart negates the need to be immersed then they are clearly preaching another gospel.
Those that truly have a repentant heart will obey every one of Jesus’ teachings on how to obtain and live by the Spirit.
That may be your point but I did not understand it.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.Repentance and Baptism are the starting point of our relationship with Jesus and our pass into the kingdom but to remain in the kingdom of God there is a road we must travel for He that endures to the end will be saved A continual pursuit of a closer relationship with our King is the key to staying in His church.
EddieB,
Welcome to the heavennet forums!
Yes, immersion in water is an elemental teaching of the gospel and yet it is controversial in today’s church. That is a grievous thing.
hi EddieB
Repentance and Baptism are the starting point of our relationship with Jesus and our pass into the kingdom but to remain in the kingdom of God there is a road we must travel for He that endures to the end will be saved A continual pursuit of a closer relationship with our King is the key to staying in His church.
what the word baptism mean is emerging ;how can someone know God or his son by dipping in water ? zero;
but if we merge our self into the study of God’s words that was given through his son this WILL ,Mt 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,
Mt 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”this is what Jesus did even after his resurrection ;Lk 24:25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
Lk 24:26 Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?”
Lk 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.Jn 1:45 Philip found Nathanael and told him, “We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”
the water baptism was the baptism of John for the jews ;for they had rejected their own God ,and the water baptism was to call them back so that they could be saved by him through his son ,
unless we created the knowledge from scriptures in our own heart we will never come to know God or his son that he has send ,
I do understand the importance of being buried with Christ to immersed in His word and spirit this is a process of a continue walk with Him. But Peter stood up and gave the command to be baptized in Jesus name. If we read the book of Acts we will find that water baptism (in water) was a essential process that was used in the salvation process.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Eddie,
It is clearly seen that water was taught as part of the message of gospel so why bother debating with those who read Scripture and yet refuse to acknowledge it.
Eddie
Therefore, the correct translation here should be stated, “He who believed and who was baptized shall be saved.” However, the Lord adds, “. . . but he that believeth not shall be damned.” It should be noted that this negative statement does not include a reference to baptism, making it clear that what saves a person is living faith in Jesus Christ. This is made clear in Ephesians 2:8, “For by grace are ye saved through faith. . . .” The word “saved” is translated from the Greek word sesosmenoi, which is a perfect passive participle. It means that this salvation took place at some point in the past and is continuing on in the present, being accomplished by Jesus Christ Himself. If baptism were necessary for salvation, Ephesians 2:8 and many others verses should have been translated “ye are saved through faith and baptism.” There are examples in the NT of people who were baptized for selfish reasons, rather than for the purpose of demonstrating their inner, saving faith in Christ (Luke 3:7-9, the Pharisees; Acts 8:9-25, Simon). Baptism is a distinct act of obedience apart from salvation. This is clarified by the order in which the words “believe” and “baptize” occur in the text (cf. Matt. 28:19 [note here that the word “teaching” precedes the mentioning of “baptism”]; Acts 2:38; 10:44-48).
this is how I see it
and you Nick are a pro to do just that ,
your sectarian view will defend baptism for this would make you special if you belong to one or any other sect like Paul find in the Cor;1;10-…..
Terrarica,
Acts 8:36New English Translation (NET Bible)
36 Now as they were going along the road, they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “Look, there is water! What is to stop me from being baptized?”
Acts 10:47New English Translation (NET Bible)
47 “No one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?”
So according to the implications of your teaching Peter and Philip are heretics.
They are right, you are wrong.
Repent or perish.
K
religions like you to believe this but NO,in truth you do not required it I mean talking for the gentiles ,the Jews is a must for they know their God and their sins ,
water baptism is not required by the disciples for the gentiles ,your opinion is based on what some apostles did and so take conclusion thereof,
but without details on the persons that were baptized , the circumcision is the circumcision of the heart ,this cannot be found in water ,
the truth of God, is knowledge from God given to the apostles by Jesus ,
Ac 15:7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe.
Ac 15:8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.
Ac 15:9 He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.
Ac 15:10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?
Ac 15:11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
Ac 15:12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the miraculous signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them.
Ac 15:13 When they finished, James spoke up: “Brothers, listen to me.
Ac 15:14 Simon has described to us how God at first showed his concern by taking from the Gentiles a people for himself.
Ac 15:15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
Ac 15:16 “ ‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
Ac 15:17 that the remnant of men may seek the Lord,
and all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’
Ac 15:18 that have been known for ages.
Ac 15:19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
Ac 15:20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
Ac 15:21 For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”Ac 15:22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, two men who were leaders among the brothers.
Ac 15:23 With them they sent the following letter:The apostles and elders, your brothers,
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.
Ac 15:24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.
Ac 15:25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul—
Ac 15:26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Ac 15:27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing.
Ac 15:28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:
Ac 15:29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.Farewell.
Ac 15:30 The men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter.
Ac 15:31 The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message.
Ac 15:32 Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the brothers.
Ac 15:33 After spending some time there, they were sent off by the brothers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them.
Ac 15:35 But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, where they and many others taught and preached the word of the Lord.so has you can read this is the letter and words of facts not conclusions from opinions ,
but have it your way,i stick to the scriptures
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