- This topic has 4,343 replies, 85 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 3 months ago by
.
- Posts
Hi kW,
You speak with a certain presumption as scripture does not state what you say about the bosom of Abraham being paradise.
It may be correct.
Hi KW,
Saul was anointed as a king and a prophet.
But he did not walk in the Spirit and suffered the consequences.
Nick,
It is not presumption as it is at latest a Second temple teaching. Jesus clearly spoke of Lazarus going to the bosom of Abraham while the rich man went to Hades/Sheol.
Both Jesus and the thief died that day and they would have also entered the same place Lazarus did being as Jesus was righteous and implied the thief would be credited with righteousness just as Abraham was before him.
The failure of the church to continue to teach the truth but instead claim that the members of their organization went to heaven after death has lead to many misunderstandings.
Nick,
Yes, but Saul did not enter the new covenant even though he received the Holy Spirit and became a new man since the covenant would not be established for centuries.
Hi KW,
You hopefully join the dots but cannot find parallel verses.
None of the prophets entered the new covenant but they share the Spirit of Christ.[1peter 1]
Nick,
That teaching is easy to see just by synonymous uses of the words Paradise and Bosom of Abraham. If you do not understand the verses these two terms are in then you cannot see what is obvious to those with the Spirit.
You are aware that there is a place for the wicked and the righteous in the Land of the dead and that the dead do not go to heaven after death so I am not sure why you are confused.
Your words that it might be true that you just prefer that teaching would be clearly written in Scripture. If all teachings were clear in Scripture then Jesus would not had to point out that the resurrection of the dead was implied by the words of Exodus 3:6 nor would he had to explain to his two student-followers from Scripture that the suffer crucifixion and more.
God chooses to hide the truth in Scripture for the same reason Jesus chose to use parables.
Trust that if you seek him with all your heart that God will lead you to the truth.
Nick,
They received the Holy Spirit in it role of gift giver which is why they were able to foretell in the name of God but they did not receive the Holy Spirit in its role of Advocate which is why they did not have the glories to come.
About the New Covenant it is written that the new covenant is different than the Law of Moses because God writes his Law on the minds of believers and puts it in them. (Jeremiah 31:30-33)
It is the Spirit in its role of Advocate that writes God’s Law on the minds and hearts of believers as it dwells in them that is the glories to come the prophets looked forward to.
Sadly, many treat the new covenant as an change and successor of the old but yet written in Scripture.
Hi KW,
If something is not written but is OBVIOUS to you that is some form of confirmation that you are of the Spirit?
That sort of nonsense led to the divisions in the church of the world.
Nick,
When two terms are used synonymously even those without the Spirit should mean the same thing. Near synonymously is trickier.
Nick,
According to your reasoning it was Jesus’ opinion that there is a resurrection of the dead.
You would know that it was not an opinion if you really believed what was written.
Hi KW,
We know Jesus is an anointed man.
There is considerably more doubt as to your standing in this regard and your opinions carry little weight.
Nick,
The Sadducees did not know. Like you they were listening to a human being speak and judging if those words came from God or not. If they used your reasoning then they would judge his words as false.
(continuing)
Hi Miia and Nick,
Well when I arrived at the “Church of Christ” Joe and Floyd were both already there.
Floyd’s a member there. We bowled on the same bowling team last year, and
I play pinochle with him and his brother regularly at the senior center.Clay, who was also on our bowling team last year, was at the Church too.
He is also a member there, so the Pastor quickly found out I knew them.
But when I first walked in the door, I said loud enough for most to hearBâ-rük Hä-bä B’Shəm Âd-ô-nīə ĔL-ō-Hêêm YÄ-hä-vā
(this is a clear reference to Matthew 23:39 and it means)
Blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD GOD JEHOVAHIt made quite an impact as usual (when I make special guest appearances)
I did it because most Church people like to hear Hebrew spoken,
and also because it puts me in the spot-light (Hot Seat).…to be continued
Hi Mia:
You say:
Do not assume that a thief has not been baptised and cannot receive forgivness. It does not say the thief was unbaptised.
Well, since he was crucified, and died, was he baptized in water.
The scripture states that:
John 3
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
So, then if the water in the above verse meant water baptism, then how could he then be saved?
Also, it would mean that those under the law that were not baptized in water could not be saved, would it not?
The Apostle Paul stated that:
Romans 3:
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
(So, then according to these scriptures those under the law were also saved by faith, not of works. If someone were to be saved by water baptism, or the baptism of blood, or any other type of baptism that one could obey, that would be salvation by works. One by become a martyr, in obedience to God’s Word after being saved by faith, but one cannot be saved by works of any kind. We obey the Word of God after we believe the gospel with a repentant heart.)
And so, I disagree with your statement when you say:
However, I do agree with this: “There are exceptions to water baptism. It is possible to be saved through “baptism of blood”, (martyrdom for Christ), or through “baptism of desire”, that is, an explicit or even implicit desire for baptism.”
In 1 Peter, the Apostle Peter compares water baptism to those who were saved by water, Noah’s Ark, but tell me, if they had not been in the Ark, could they have been saved by water? The Ark now is the body of Christ. Water baptism is a work showing that one has believed the gospel with a repentant heart. One must be in the ark prior to the water having any significance. But no, I am not denying the importance of water baptism. It is the Word of God and should be obeyed by all believers as well as all of the commandments of the Lord.
Love in Christ,
Marty
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
