Is baptism needed for salvation?

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2014,15:42)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2014,23:51) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 21 2014,15:51) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2014,14:59) k in roman 6 Paul talks about the baptism of dead in the flesh of sin.all of us have to pass that baptism this is the way to life, if we have turned our heart and mind to God then we cannot use our limbs to do what is wrong,all our body part have to be without sin as well, T, I agree as the comforter come to teach us all things and if we choose to live only by the spirit and not by the flesh then we will do all that is right.  We know “they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”  Paul's words to the Roman's in chapter 6 tell us believers are crucified with Christ when they are immersed.   Only Acts speaks of the giving of gifts, and then mostly using examples of the giving and not teaching of how they are received.  There are some mentions in the OT as well.  There are at least two different way God uses to give the gifts, one is directly and the other is by the laying on of hands.   Acts 8:14-17 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (for as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. According to this the Giftgiver did not come with immersion in Jesus' name.  It came when the apostles laid their hands on hands on believers.  The same order of things happened when Paul brought the students of John the Baptist into full knowledge of the Christ. k understand that the comforter was only given for those who knew personally Christ because he as to die and go away leaving them “alone” the gift of miracles were given to promote God's works not to make man look like gods , T, Why do you come to that conclusion? Consider that those that live by the spirit know all that is righteous as manifest the fruit of righteousness. 1 John 2:20 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

K

DID YOU CONSIDER THIS ;

1Jn 2:18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
1Jn 2:20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.
1Jn 2:21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2014,21:14)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2014,15:42) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2014,23:51) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 21 2014,15:51) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2014,14:59) k in roman 6 Paul talks about the baptism of dead in the flesh of sin.all of us have to pass that baptism this is the way to life, if we have turned our heart and mind to God then we cannot use our limbs to do what is wrong,all our body part have to be without sin as well, T, I agree as the comforter come to teach us all things and if we choose to live only by the spirit and not by the flesh then we will do all that is right.  We know “they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”  Paul's words to the Roman's in chapter 6 tell us believers are crucified with Christ when they are immersed.   Only Acts speaks of the giving of gifts, and then mostly using examples of the giving and not teaching of how they are received.  There are some mentions in the OT as well.  There are at least two different way God uses to give the gifts, one is directly and the other is by the laying on of hands.   Acts 8:14-17 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (for as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. According to this the Giftgiver did not come with immersion in Jesus' name.  It came when the apostles laid their hands on hands on believers.  The same order of things happened when Paul brought the students of John the Baptist into full knowledge of the Christ. k understand that the comforter was only given for those who knew personally Christ because he as to die and go away leaving them “alone” the gift of miracles were given to promote God's works not to make man look like gods , T, Why do you come to that conclusion? Consider that those that live by the spirit know all that is righteous as manifest the fruit of righteousness. 1 John 2:20 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. K DID YOU CONSIDER THIS ; 1Jn 2:18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. 1Jn 2:20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. 1Jn 2:21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.

T,

Why do you think the two translations seem to disagree?

[terraricca]

k

Quote

T, Why do you think the two translations seem to disagree?

they don't

[Wakeup]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2014,20:44)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2014,10:43) Kerwin. That was Jesus promise to His apostles. Ask anything in my name And I will give it to you. wakeup. Wakeup, Are you implying that Jesus children other than the apostles will not receive what they ask from God?

Kerwin.

Not at all.
We ask and pray.
God makes the decision.
Most of the time we dont get what we asked for,
but always for the good in the end,but we can not see that.
We have to endure sufferings: that makes us stronger in faith. We should not worship God for His gifts only.Most
go to church to *GET* something. Give me,give me.
We worship Him for what HE is;our Holy Father.
Even through pain and sufferings,He is still our beloved.
This is true faith.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

K

Quote

T, Why do you think the two translations seem to disagree?

I AGREE WITH YOU BUT KNOW THIS ;THAT IF YOU FAIL TO STAY AWAY FROM WHAT IT SAYS IN THE NEXT VERSE YOUR FAITH IS ALSO VOID

1Jn 2:21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.

[kerwin]

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 23 2014,02:36)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2014,20:44) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2014,10:43) Kerwin. That was Jesus promise to His apostles. Ask anything in my name And I will give it to you. wakeup. Wakeup, Are you implying that Jesus children other than the apostles will not receive what they ask from God? Kerwin. Not at all. We ask and pray. God makes the decision. Most of the time we dont get what we asked for, but always for the good in the end,but we can not see that. We have to endure sufferings: that makes us stronger in faith. We should not worship God for His gifts only.Most go to church to *GET* something. Give me,give me. We worship Him for what HE is;our Holy Father. Even through pain and sufferings,He is still our beloved. This is true faith. wakeup.

Wake,

Then the teaching ask and it will be given, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened is for all believers?

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2014,04:07)

K Quote T, Why do you think the two translations seem to disagree? I AGREE WITH YOU BUT KNOW THIS ;THAT IF YOU FAIL TO STAY AWAY FROM WHAT IT SAYS IN THE NEXT VERSE YOUR FAITH IS ALSO VOID 1Jn 2:21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.

T,

I see that you believe 1Jn 2:21 is necessary to correctly understand v20. I do not see that but you may be correct.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 25 2014,01:52)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2014,04:07) K Quote T, Why do you think the two translations seem to disagree? I AGREE WITH YOU BUT KNOW THIS ;THAT IF YOU FAIL TO STAY AWAY FROM WHAT IT SAYS IN THE NEXT VERSE YOUR FAITH IS ALSO VOID 1Jn 2:21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. T, I see that you believe 1Jn 2:21 is necessary to correctly understand v20.  I do not see that but you may be correct.

k

yes,what john says is to believer that are well aware of the truth of God and know it ,what he try to point out is

NOT A SINGLE LIE SHOULD BE ALLOWED IN CHANGING THAT TRUTH .

[terraricca]

Jn 1:33 I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’
Jn 1:34 I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.”

PAY ATTENTION THAT IN THIS VERSES JOHN SAYS THAT IT IS CHRIST THAT WILL BAPTIZE NO ONE ELSE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT ,

ONLY THE BAPTISM OF WATER IS DONE TO OTHER BY OTHERS ,

[Wakeup]

Kerwin.

What is truth?

One that does understand these listed below:
1.All of he old testament.
2.All of the prohesies there in.
3.All of the new testament.
4.One that knows the Father,and the Son.
5.The new prophesies.
6.One that has found the clear picture of the whole plan.

Knowing all those,is knowing the whole truth.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Jn 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth

[Wakeup]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 25 2014,06:52)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2014,04:07) K Quote T, Why do you think the two translations seem to disagree? I AGREE WITH YOU BUT KNOW THIS ;THAT IF YOU FAIL TO STAY AWAY FROM WHAT IT SAYS IN THE NEXT VERSE YOUR FAITH IS ALSO VOID 1Jn 2:21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. T, I see that you believe 1Jn 2:21 is necessary to correctly understand v20.  I do not see that but you may be correct.

Kerwin.

1 John 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

That is a letter to the believers in John's day.
In case you dont notice. Remember that they had their
top teachers back then.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 07 2014,22:15)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 25 2014,06:52) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2014,04:07) K Quote T, Why do you think the two translations seem to disagree? I AGREE WITH YOU BUT KNOW THIS ;THAT IF YOU FAIL TO STAY AWAY FROM WHAT IT SAYS IN THE NEXT VERSE YOUR FAITH IS ALSO VOID 1Jn 2:21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. T, I see that you believe 1Jn 2:21 is necessary to correctly understand v20.  I do not see that but you may be correct. Kerwin. 1 John 2:21   I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. That is a letter to the believers in John's day. In case you dont notice. Remember that they had their top teachers back then. wakeup.

w

are you a trinitarian you surly talk like one

[Wakeup]

T.

Why do you ask?
Have I said something that support the trinies?

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 07 2014,22:25)

T. Why do you ask? Have I said something that support the trinies? wakeup.

W

YOU SEEM NOT HAVE SAID SOMETHING LIKE THEM BUT YOU TALK LIKE THEM /MEANING YOU ALWAYS DISQUALIFY WHAT DOES NOT LINE UP WITH YOUR WAY OF THINKING ,LOOK AT YOUR RESPOND ;TO ME IN YOUR PREVIOUS QUOTE

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 08 2014,06:25)

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 07 2014,22:25) T. Why do you ask? Have I said something that support the trinies? wakeup. W YOU SEEM NOT HAVE SAID SOMETHING LIKE THEM BUT YOU TALK LIKE THEM /MEANING YOU ALWAYS DISQUALIFY WHAT DOES NOT LINE UP WITH YOUR WAY OF THINKING ,LOOK AT YOUR RESPOND ;TO ME IN YOUR PREVIOUS QUOTE

T.

What previous quote?

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 08 2014,03:28)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 08 2014,06:25) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 07 2014,22:25) T. Why do you ask? Have I said something that support the trinies? wakeup. W YOU SEEM NOT HAVE SAID SOMETHING LIKE THEM BUT YOU TALK LIKE THEM /MEANING YOU ALWAYS DISQUALIFY WHAT DOES NOT LINE UP WITH YOUR WAY OF THINKING ,LOOK AT YOUR RESPOND ;TO ME IN YOUR PREVIOUS QUOTE T. What previous quote? wakeup.

w

sorry it was to kerwin

Quote

1 John 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. That is a letter to the believers in John's day. In case you dont notice. Remember that they had their top teachers back then.

[kerwin]

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 07 2014,04:11)

Kerwin. What is truth? One that does understand these listed below: 1.All of he old testament. 2.All of the prohesies there in. 3.All of the new testament. 4.One that knows the Father,and the Son. 5.The new prophesies. 6.One that has found the clear picture of the whole plan. Knowing all those,is knowing the whole truth. wakeup.

Wakeup,

The word of God is truth. the rest is irrelevant if you do not believe it.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 07 2014,03:26)

Jn 1:33 I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ Jn 1:34 I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.” PAY ATTENTION THAT IN THIS VERSES JOHN SAYS THAT IT IS CHRIST THAT WILL BAPTIZE NO ONE ELSE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT , ONLY THE BAPTISM OF WATER IS DONE TO OTHER BY OTHERS ,

T,

The baptism of water is the time you make a pledge of a clear conscious to God. When you are immersed in the name of Jesus, which is to say with his authority, then you receive the Spirit as a teacher of righteousness. John did not immerse anyone in the name of Jesus though he immersed many by the authority of Jehovah.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 08 2014,22:41)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 07 2014,03:26) Jn 1:33 I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ Jn 1:34 I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.” PAY ATTENTION THAT IN THIS VERSES JOHN SAYS THAT IT IS CHRIST THAT WILL BAPTIZE NO ONE ELSE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT , ONLY THE BAPTISM OF WATER IS DONE TO OTHER BY OTHERS , T, The baptism of water is the time you make a pledge of a clear conscious to God.  When you are immersed in the name of Jesus, which is to say with his authority, then you receive the Spirit as a teacher of righteousness.  John did not immerse anyone in the name of Jesus though he immersed many by the authority of Jehovah.

K

READ THE SCRIPTURE, your answer does not addressed my question

Jn 1:33 I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’
Jn 1:34 I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.”

PAY ATTENTION THAT IN THIS VERSES JOHN SAYS THAT IT IS CHRIST THAT WILL BAPTIZE NO ONE ELSE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT ,was it not so

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